Best Level For A H.S. Freshman Who Knows He Will Be Playing (Somewhere)

Thanks again to all for the great replies!

Just to be clear on one thing, I'm not nervous, fretting, worrying, sweating or agonizing about anything here.

It's actually sort of surreal. I've seen many in the past freaking out over whether or not their kid would make the team. I've seen others shocked and/or bitter when their kid didn't make the team. It's nice to know my only wonder is which team he will land on in the spring.

And, I'm not losing sight of the fact that nothing is locked in - and, where you start may not be where you finish. I've seen kids move up, and down, after the season starts.

baseball mom2020 posted:

Son as a Freshman made JV and also dressed for Varsity. Started a few Varsity games when a couple of the Seniors got hurt but then back into the dugout when they were healthy even though he did well. However, he was expected to play all JV games and then go to all the Varsity games. There were many days when he wouldn't get home until 8:30-9:00. That was a real problem for his schoolwork and he struggled. In the end he was so stressed going to JV then Varsity with homework and studying for tests ( he was all honors classes)  that he didn't enjoy the process.  Remember school work has to come first. Know of someone who has verbal commitment to a top baseball program, but he may not even graduate from high school because he has only concentrated on baseball and not his schoolwork.

Great point. Baseball take SO much time. Son #1 was double rostered on JV/V for about 3 very busy spring weeks while he was busy studying for 6 AP tests in a very important academic year for him. Thankfully that situation was resolved, and he ended up on just the one team.

CatcherDadNY posted:

I don't  believe that freshmen should play on varsity...ever..regardless of talent..they should be with their peers at that level...it will help them in the long run.

eh...depends on the situation, always!

Son #2 and his friend play on the same summer team. Both pitchers of similar talent level. Son will not even be eligible to play till this year(no MS team), and will likely be on the Freshman team, of which there are two. The Freshman class totals about 700 or so. The school is in the highest level of HS ball, and arguably, in the strongest conference.

His friend played Varsity last year on his private school team as a gr. 8'er. His school has about 100 students per grade, and plays in a lower level conference.

Horses for courses.

FWIW, at our school, if I have it correctly, Freshmen, JV and Varsity usually play at the same start time. Or, freshman will play earlier so they can later watch varsity. So, it's not like there's much chance to play more than one game on game day.

There is a 2021 in our local HS (solid NYC program) who played V as a frosh. Very talented kid and a little older for his grade but definitely has talent and ranked top 10 in the state. My frosh son will be playing Freshman baseball, the school is very strict in keeping players in their grade. I don't sweat it and I think my kid is okay with it as he just want reps and they will give him a lot of it so he can prep for summer ball. If he shines I am ready for the consequences ad I already am in the middle of keeping a 14 yo ego in check. I am proud of his achievements in the classroom and off season work, but the preening, flexing and constant  walking around the house in only compression shorts to display is 170 lb frame is getting under his kid bro, my wife and my skin.

PABaseball posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

I don't  believe that freshmen should play on varsity...ever..regardless of talent..they should be with their peers at that level...it will help them in the long run.

If a freshman could come in and contribute right away - why wouldn't they? 

I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this as well. 

Good luck dealing with the HS freshman who plays varsity ball when he is a freshman playing college ball and gets zero playing time..he won't handle it well...won't understand the concept of waiting your turn and he's not all that as he was in HS...these types are the first to transfer out...

CatcherDadNY posted:

Good luck dealing with the HS freshman who plays varsity ball when he is a freshman playing college ball and gets zero playing time..he won't handle it well...won't understand the concept of waiting your turn and he's not all that as he was in HS...these types are the first to transfer out...

While I am sure this happens often...this statement is not representative of all players who played as HS freshmen...Every player's baseball journey is different...and how you deal with little to no playing time as a college freshman depends on many factors...maturity and the ability to accurately assess where your skill/strength are as a college freshman...understanding of the talent level of the older players on the college team...is it more important to you to play as early as possible on a less successful college team or wait your turn and have the opportunity to win big as an upperclassman....as we have seen recently with college football....you can transfer and put yourself in a great situation...or you can stay the course and put yourself in a great situation...every player's journey in every sport is different....the important part is to make the journey...

Of course nothing is absolute..too soon too fast is why a lot of high schools have rules that keep freshmen playing with freshmen..they understand that doing so is a wise decision that will help these young men in their future development in life..preparing them to deal with the inevitable roadblocks that will present themselves further on and to persevere..a concept that few will understand as HS freshmen...their parents as well.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Good luck dealing with the HS freshman who plays varsity ball when he is a freshman playing college ball and gets zero playing time..he won't handle it well...won't understand the concept of waiting your turn and he's not all that as he was in HS...these types are the first to transfer out...

I respect your opinion but will respectfully disagree because every situation is different. 

My son’s high school coach started three freshmen a couple of seasons ago and they all should’ve have been starting. Obviously, the coach knew it but so did the other players. Also, the seniors mentored them and kept them in line. 

I don’t think it’s the high school coaches job to figure out what may or may not happen when they get to college because freshman sometimes start in college as well. Sometimes they don’t but that doesn’t necessarily mean that transfer.

IMHO, the high school coach should try to put the best nine on the field and personally (again my opinion) I don’t believe in “the waiting your turn” method because everything should be earned. 

CatcherDadNY posted:

Good luck dealing with the HS freshman who plays varsity ball when he is a freshman playing college ball and gets zero playing time..he won't handle it well...won't understand the concept of waiting your turn and he's not all that as he was in HS...these types are the first to transfer out...

Well, that statement just doesn't hold water. It may be your experience, but I venture to say it may also be limited.

We have currently & have had over the last  2 decades many folks whose sons played/started 4 yrs Varsity HS & 3/4 yrs College, a few even went thru the ranks & made MLB. 

Are there the occassional "hick-ups", yes probably. I'll give that...

hshuler posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

Good luck dealing with the HS freshman who plays varsity ball when he is a freshman playing college ball and gets zero playing time..he won't handle it well...won't understand the concept of waiting your turn and he's not all that as he was in HS...these types are the first to transfer out...

I respect your opinion but will respectfully disagree because every situation is different. 

My son’s high school coach started three freshmen a couple of seasons ago and they all should’ve have been starting. Obviously, the coach knew it but so did the other players. Also, the seniors mentored them and kept them in line. 

I don’t think it’s the high school coaches job to figure out what may or may not happen when they get to college because freshman sometimes start in college as well. Sometimes they don’t but that doesn’t necessarily mean that transfer.

IMHO, the high school coach should try to put the best nine on the field and personally (again my opinion) I don’t believe in “the waiting your turn” method because everything should be earned. 

Hshuler...I agree 100%....you just said it better than I could have.

The best coaches/teachers are those that you remember and thank in your heart for the lessons and knowledge they gave you that helped you in life..although you may not have realized it at the time...playing the best nine as you say is more of a travel team concept in my opinion..there is something to be said for putting time in the HS program that prepares you for life..learning that talent alone is often not enough..how you handle working your way thru obstacles is real talent..how do you learn that playing varsity as a freshman?

CatcherDadNY posted:

Of course nothing is absolute..too soon too fast is why a lot of high schools have rules that keep freshmen playing with freshmen..they understand that doing so is a wise decision that will help these young men in their future development in life..preparing them to deal with the inevitable roadblocks that will present themselves further on and to persevere..a concept that few will understand as HS freshmen...their parents as well.

I understand your point because I don’t believe in playing a kid before he’s ready but I also believe that kids have to be challenged. Playing varsity as a 15 year-old comes with its own challenges and roadblocks but being able to overcome them is a great life lesson. 

So, kids who can compete at a high level on varsity should waste a year of development playing freshman or JV? What kind of a lesson is that? 

By that logic why do you think MLB has all manner of developmental leagues?...and you rarely see an 18 year old playing in an MLB game..playing freshman ball is not a wasted year at all...sounds like some parents are the ones who have an issue with it.

You learn thru instinct, observation & deduction. Those are talents that aren't often spoken about. Tenacity, being a student of the game, something that flows thru your veins, a determination, focus, gut desire..."it"...

Paying attention to the mentors, whether that Jr & Sr Teammates, Coaches, Traners, etc

And, agree, some parents need to remove the rose colored glasses...

Every school is different.  And, every season at the same school is different.  That said, at our school, in the last 6 years prior to this one coming up, I THINK they had maybe just 2 kids make Varsity as a freshman.  One is a pitcher and the son of a former professional who made it to AAA.  Kid threw hard.  The other was someone who started at JV as a freshmen and then was quickly moved to Varsity that year once he was seen.   He was a two way player.  Big tall kid.  Later got a full ride as a pitcher at a major D1 school.  Was also selected in the major league draft the year he finished HS. 

In those same 6 years, there’s been maybe 12 kids, overall, who were freshmen who made a team better than freshmen. Interestingly, most of them did not go on to play college baseball.  Although 2 of them – one and the other aforementioned kid – did go on to play D1. 

CatcherDadNY posted:

By that logic why do you think MLB has all manner of developmental leagues?...and you rarely see an 18 year old playing in an MLB game..playing freshman ball is not a wasted year at all...sounds like some parents are the ones who have an issue with it.

Another great point, but it happens because someone deemed them ready...and as an FYI, it rarely happens at my son’s high school as well. The last time it happened was about 10 years ago and both of the kid were drafted. One in the third round and the other much later.  Also, parents have zero say-so or influence over who plays, so what parents have an issue with doesn’t matter.

In the scenario that I mentioned earlier, it was the prefect storm as two of the kids were OF’s and the prior senior class graduated three starting OF’s. The other kid was a catcher and the senior catcher graduated. All three batted well over .300, one led the team in home runs and another kid had 44 hits. By the way, if you saw the catcher you wouldn’t think he was a freshmen at the time.

Couple final points....in the 7A classification in GA, varsity and freshmen baseball aren’t even in the same stratosphere at least not in our county. If a kid can break 80, he’s pitching JV so I stand by my comment of it being a wasted year of development for those particular players. Just as it would be a wasted year of development if a kid was placed on varsity before he was ready.  Playing at the appropriate level of competition is critical to development.

All three of those kids played on top ten travel teams so they were already accustomed to the level of pitching that they saw on varsity as freshmen. They routinely faced mid to upper 80’s and occasionally low 90’s.

What level your son plays as a freshman is out of the parents control. There is good and bad with every scenario that I have read here. Whatever happens, happens and your son will need to deal with it.Take the focus away from where your son as a freshman should play and use it elsewhere. There are far more important things is HS to worry about then baseball. I have been through all this stuff but the one constant was always the focus on academics, enjoying the HS experience and then baseball. Don't get me wrong baseball was very important to my son and I but we often talked about how to deal with all this HS stuff on and off the field. Girl friends, HS coaches, academics, social life etc... Let him Enjoy HS!   

CatcherDadNY posted:

I don't  believe that freshmen should play on varsity...ever..regardless of talent..they should be with their peers at that level...it will help them in the long run.

That makes no sense....if a kid can has a desire to play beyond HS, can play at the varsity level, get adequate playing time and contribute, of course he should.   When a kid gets to college as a freshman, he's playing against kids 3 years older from day 1 of fall practice.  Obviously not every HS freshman is ready for varsity, but if he's able to handle it, there's no reason why he shouldn't. 

At our high school (2nd largest classification in the state), our coach puts the best 9 on the field.  Over the last 7 years that has in included:

2012- 3 freshmen on state finalist team

2013 - 5 sophomores on team that made final 8

2014 -  All upper class men on team that was nationally ranked and finished in top 16 in state

2015 - 2 freshman and 7 seniors on team that made final 16 and was ranked 1 or 2 all year long in state, and in top 100 nationally

2017 - 2 freshman that were on team that made final 8

2018 - 3 sophomores on team that lost 3 games all year, was ranked #1 in state most of year, and was in the top 50 nationally.

2019 - 1 freshman will start, and 2 will play important rolls on the pitching staff

We do not have that much depth (maybe 12 "baseball" players each year).  We may only have 3/4 kids at each grade that are considered D1 type prospects, but those D1 type prospects as a freshman are better than your typical HS player 2/3 years older than them.  

So to put them on a freshman team, where the team is "learning how to catch" would be a waste of a year.  Now at big huge schools (Allen with 6,000 kids in the HS), their talent pool is way deeper, but amazingly we can play with them.

CatcherDadNY posted:

By that logic why do you think MLB has all manner of developmental leagues?...and you rarely see an 18 year old playing in an MLB game..playing freshman ball is not a wasted year at all...sounds like some parents are the ones who have an issue with it.

I don't have issue either way but I, like others, certainly have a different experience.  I was a very recent ten year HS coach and travel coach previously.  One of my sons also played through college.  I followed all the local kids and a good many of my son's friends and teammates thru the years.  The ratio that Francis describes is fairly typical in this area... maybe 2 kids every six years or so from each HS on average play V as a freshman.  If I compared all the kids that went on to play in college to the subset who were 4 yr HS V players, the percentage of those 4 yr V HS players sticking with their 4 yr colleges would be higher that the rest of the group.  

You also said..

The best coaches/teachers are those that you remember and thank in your heart for the lessons and knowledge they gave you that helped you in life..although you may not have realized it at the time...playing the best nine as you say is more of a travel team concept in my opinion..there is something to be said for putting time in the HS program that prepares you for life..learning that talent alone is often not enough..how you handle working your way thru obstacles is real talent..how do you learn that playing varsity as a freshman?

Again, I respectfully disagree.  Most of those freshman V players were able to earn that spot, at least in part, because they had been involved in more competitive travel play outside of the HS program and they were putting in a lot of extra work via some combination of outside instruction, extra practice reps, etc.  So they are already learning the lessons of working thru obstacles and how talent is not enough.  In many instances, they are also exposed to a larger pool of good players at an earlier age (via travel) and, so, often have a more realistic approach and understanding of where they fit in the bigger picture when going through the recruiting process. 

My experience is the opposite than yours in this regard too -  HS varsity baseball is playing the best nine.  Travel has multiple purposes, quite often to assure that each player play and/or be seen playing.

Regarding your MLB analogy, I think there are specific reasons that you don't see 18 y.o.'s playing in an MLB game that are completely unrelated to the reasons a freshman may or may not play at the varsity level.  So, while some comparisons can be drawn, not an apples to apples comparison. 

My own son played V as a freshman but that was more of a reflection of the program at the time.  If he was entering the same program with the same skill set three or four years later, he probably would not have played V freshman year.  Either way, I think he would have taken a very similar path afterward.

I certainly do agree that it is a big problem when parents have issue with the decision of the coach/program where the player is needed.  So, we're practically on the same page 

I think part of the issue with the conflicting comments here is that there is such a HUGE disparity between the HS's that our kids attended....or played against.   My son's HS plays in a very good league, and does really well with limited numbers.  As a freshman, my son's class had 5 kids play baseball....all 5 played thru their senior year.  We never had more than 30 kids in the ENTIRE PROGRAM his 4 years in school...so no freshman games and sometimes even a JV and Varsity on the same day caused issues with pitcher availability.  My son's graduating class had 140 kids total. 

The top school in our league....multi-time state champion in D2 (second largest in the state) would have 35-40 freshman try out every year....with graduating classes in the upper 200's, so still not a large school by any means.   Difference....our school is a perennial HS basketball power (4 state titles in the last 20 years) and our football program is also a powerhouse.   Guess what, that means that in a school that size, there just aren't enough baseball kids left after the football guys all are "recommended" to run track in the Spring....and the basketball and football coaches "expect" the kids to be available in the summer for AAU and 7 on 7's.   Read that as "no time for baseball"    The other school I mentioned....basketball and football are average at best and their summer baseball is not mandatory....that would be illegal ....but it's close.  

CatcherDadNY posted:

Good luck dealing with the HS freshman who plays varsity ball when he is a freshman playing college ball and gets zero playing time..he won't handle it well...won't understand the concept of waiting your turn and he's not all that as he was in HS...these types are the first to transfer out...

I don't believe in waiting your turn and being entitled to things. I believe in taking what you can get and making something of it. There are going to be older players there, but it doesn't matter. If you go in thinking- I have to wait my turn, these guys have already been putting in work for two years, there is no chance you're going to be successful. If the other guys are better and he doesn't earn a rotation spot, then he'll have the opportunity to try again next year. There is nothing to deal with.

4 years of varsity ball and sitting the bench freshman year of college. Vs two years of varsity baseball and sitting the bench. Both guys end up in the same place, the bench. By this logic, somebody should be starting just because they are older. If a four year varsity starter can't handle sitting on the bench their freshman year of college because they aren't good enough, then they were never mentally tough enough to begin with. 

2019 was one of two freshman on varsity. Started on the mound in 3 of their state games. They won state championships their freshman and sophomore years. Graduation hit hard. They won 5 games last year and might not match that this year. If you don't call those two freshman up, they most likely have 0 championships. When those freshman are finally seniors they're part of a losing program. Who benefits here? 

(I didn't read the whole thread, so if it got off subject and everyone is arguing about parking fees, money grabbing coaches, clueless moms/dads, enjoying the ride, etc.  My apologies in advance if my post doesn't make sense.)

Our HS had a very talented 2020 incoming class.  In the largest classification in Texas, the school has won district several years in a row, advanced couple rounds in playoffs, etc.  The 2020 class had five kids that could have played Varsity as a freshman.  We have freshman, JV and V teams. 

In their freshman year, coach took one of them on varsity.  This kid started 3B and played just about every inning of the season.  He struggled the first half of the season, got better in the second half and played outstanding in the playoffs.  The other four played JV as freshman.  Every inning.  Hit in the top four spots in lineup. End of season, two of the four were called up to Varsity for the playoffs.  Both pitchers, they got their first varsity inning in the 3rd round of the playoffs.

Sophomore year, four of the five were put on varsity.  One was left as the JV shortstop.  Two of the varsity kids started every game and got just about every at bat.  Other two were PO only for the season.  Shortstop got hurt late in season, up comes the kid from JV to take his place at key time in district race.

Junior year, we'll see.  But it looks like the five 2020 kids could possibly be the starting catcher and infield.(Depending on who is pitching at the time.)

Bottom line, coach had a plan.  Some of it was development so the players could be ready as a team Jr and Sr year.  But most of it had to do with his current players, winning district and advancing in the playoffs. 

It's funny, so many people seem to think that only juniors and seniors play in college....and freshman and sophomores sit the bench.  In my experience that's not true at all in fact, freshman get a lot more PT than you would think.  I think there are a couple reasons

1) Travel ball at the highest levels is getting better and better.  Kids coming in as freshman are used to seeing the top pitchers at the biggest travel tourneys.  Sometimes multiple kids in the upper 80's, low 90's.  My son is a senior at a mid-major.....I'd be willing to bet they haven't seen more than a half dozen kids consistently over 90 since he got there

2) A freshman class may have 10-12 kids (or more).  If you look at rosters, most college teams are down to 5 or 6 seniors after 4 years.  Kids leave for multiple reasons....grades, girls or just get tired of baseball after having likely played it for 18+ years.

3) Sometimes seniors are just "riding out their time".  They've decided that a future in baseball isn't happening so they just are happy to finish out their time at the school.  Sure they still want to win, but they may not be working as hard as they did in the years before....leaving plenty of room for younger kids to get on the field

I think if you have a kid that's being looked at by colleges as a HS junior (or earlier) that he needs to have the attitude that he's going into the fall of his college freshman year EXPECTING to earn a spot on the field or in the rotation.  If he doesn't have that mindset (even as a HS junior) he's probably not going to have a great career in college.  There are already more than enough kids at his position when he first gets there....and more coming in every year that are just as or more talented than him.  My son's team has had kids who were very talented out of HS....but just don't come in to college with that "killer instinct" and have been gone in a year or two...some even less. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

It's funny, so many people seem to think that only juniors and seniors play in college....and freshman and sophomores sit the bench.  In my experience that's not true at all in fact, freshman get a lot more PT than you would think.  I think there are a couple reasons

1) Travel ball at the highest levels is getting better and better.  Kids coming in as freshman are used to seeing the top pitchers at the biggest travel tourneys.  Sometimes multiple kids in the upper 80's, low 90's.  My son is a senior at a mid-major.....I'd be willing to bet they haven't seen more than a half dozen kids consistently over 90 since he got there

2) A freshman class may have 10-12 kids (or more).  If you look at rosters, most college teams are down to 5 or 6 seniors after 4 years.  Kids leave for multiple reasons....grades, girls or just get tired of baseball after having likely played it for 18+ years.

3) Sometimes seniors are just "riding out their time".  They've decided that a future in baseball isn't happening so they just are happy to finish out their time at the school.  Sure they still want to win, but they may not be working as hard as they did in the years before....leaving plenty of room for younger kids to get on the field

I think if you have a kid that's being looked at by colleges as a HS junior (or earlier) that he needs to have the attitude that he's going into the fall of his college freshman year EXPECTING to earn a spot on the field or in the rotation.  If he doesn't have that mindset (even as a HS junior) he's probably not going to have a great career in college.  There are already more than enough kids at his position when he first gets there....and more coming in every year that are just as or more talented than him.  My son's team has had kids who were very talented out of HS....but just don't come in to college with that "killer instinct" and have been gone in a year or two...some even less. 

 

+1000

Whether my son starts as a college freshmen depends on several factors but I can guarantee you that he expects to win the job. 

CatcherDadNY posted:

I don't  believe that freshmen should play on varsity...ever..regardless of talent..they should be with their peers at that level...it will help them in the long run.

Playing with peers is what Rec ball is for.  Middle school and high school should be about playing the best players at the highest level possible.  I hate when I hear coaches say I only let (fill in the blank) grade players play certain levels because they must earn it or because the older players have earned it.  you are cheating your program and yourself.  I told a friend of mine who said that that he should go coach rec ball.  He was not being fair to his players but he saw high school sports as just fun activities.  This came from the fact that he was cut from several high school sports as a high schooler and never played college.  He just believed it was another extra curricular sport.  I also believe the parents who say this are not the parents of the top level kids.  My older two started all four years of baseball and basketball and the middle all four years of football.  The youngest would have but he chose not to play football this year.  The middle son went to 5A school and the youngest would not have mattered unless he had that coach you guys are referring to.  Play your best and expect your kid to be the best.

PitchingFan posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

I don't  believe that freshmen should play on varsity...ever..regardless of talent..they should be with their peers at that level...it will help them in the long run.

Playing with peers is what Rec ball is for.  Middle school and high school should be about playing the best players at the highest level possible.  I hate when I hear coaches say I only let (fill in the blank) grade players play certain levels because they must earn it or because the older players have earned it.  you are cheating your program and yourself.  I told a friend of mine who said that that he should go coach rec ball.  He was not being fair to his players but he saw high school sports as just fun activities.  This came from the fact that he was cut from several high school sports as a high schooler and never played college.  He just believed it was another extra curricular sport.  I also believe the parents who say this are not the parents of the top level kids.  My older two started all four years of baseball and basketball and the middle all four years of football.  The youngest would have but he chose not to play football this year.  The middle son went to 5A school and the youngest would not have mattered unless he had that coach you guys are referring to.  Play your best and expect your kid to be the best.

The sad thing is that when I was growing up that's how it was.....heck, it was like that starting in 6th grade, but now with this "everyone gets a trophy" mentality I think a lot of coaches, especially newer (or younger) ones are afraid to take HS sports as seriously as they used to be taken.  They don't want to deal with parents whining when their kid doesn't get to play enough and unfortunately most schools look at it this way too and seem to keep coaches around longer if they "keep everyone happy" even if they aren't necessarily the best coach or win a lot of games.  It's kind of sad really

CatcherDadNY posted:

I don't  believe that freshmen should play on varsity...ever..regardless of talent..they should be with their peers at that level...it will help them in the long run.

I've seen freshmen playing on varsity who were clearly among the top 3-5 players on their teams.  Wouldn't that mean they were with their peers,  at least in terms of baseball?

The funny thing about this entire thread is that it doesn't matter what anyone's philosophy is except the coach at your kids high school.  They don't all have the same philosophy, sometimes you can't even figure out their philosophy.  We spent all last year trying to understand...is it class?  Maybe?  Is it batting average, no..., OBP...can't be that?  Speed, no... 

We never figured it out and it doesn't matter, he puts who he wants on the field and on the team.  Your kid has to learn to be in the environment he is in, not always easy for the kids or the adults, but life.

Tell me how a freshman gets a spot on the HS varsity team before a game has even been played?..how do you know how he will perform?..watch how some of these 15 year olds fare against 18 year olds in travel ball...mostly it ain't  pretty.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Tell me how a freshman gets a spot on the HS varsity team before a game has even been played?..how do you know how he will perform?..watch how some of these 15 year olds fare against 18 year olds in travel ball...mostly it ain't  pretty.

You'd have to ask the coach, but I'd say he bases his decision on what he sees in practice, just like with any other player decision. Gonna send you a PM.

OK, I'm starting to think we're wasting our breath on this one but...

When a typical HS program goes through typical preseason training, daily practices, hundreds/thousands of reps, AND INTERSQUADS where there is live ball situations being played out, sometimes with the best pitching in the program on the mound, it becomes pretty obvious who the better players are and who is likely to perform the best in game situations.  Heck, in most instances, better coaches can see a kid play catch and take cuts the first day and come pretty darn close to pegging where the player is likely to land on the program depth chart.  Sure, live game situations against other opponents can sometimes bring to light issues but this is the exception rather than the rule and you gotta start somewhere and this is where most sane, reasonably qualified coaches start.

  The freshmen that earn those spots are not the ones that  fit the description of most 15 y.o.'s where "mostly it ain't pretty" when up against 17-18 y.o.'s.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Tell me how a freshman gets a spot on the HS varsity team before a game has e en been played?..how do you know how he will perform?..watch how some of these 15 year olds fare against 18 year olds in travel ball...mostly it ain't  pretty.

In GA, they have 4 on 1 (four kids to a coach) coaching sessions in the fall to evaluate players. Typically practices have started on MLK Day (no school) so the coaches would get an entire day of evaluations.  Afterwards, they have a month of practices, intersquad games and a couple scrimmages. An initial cut would happen after a couple weeks but the actual roster breakdowns (V, JV F) wouldn’t happen until a week before opening game.

The best travel balls teams are a literally national all star teams while high schools - at least public high schools - are pulling kids from a limited pool based on zoning. So, this isn’t a fair comparison. 

The three kids that mentioned as freshmen got to face (intersquad) an ACC, an SEC and a D2 kid who was a Friday night starter as a freshmen. So, it was pretty easy to tell if they could compete at that level. 

If the coach cares and is doing his job, he is following the kid and watching him play before he gets to high school.  We moved from Missouri to South Carolina and the coaches here had already watched video of my son and been on his website.  The football, basketball, and baseball coaches knew him well before he ever stepped on campus.  When I was varsity coach, I went and watched my upcoming freshman play the summer before whether it was rec ball or travel ball.  One parent asked why I was there and a mutual friend standing nearby said because he wants to know how good our kids are if they can help him before they step on his field.  That's it.  So if your high school coach doesn't know his incoming freshmen he really does not care about his team.  Or he is one of the guys who isn't going to play them anyway.  A friend of mine who coaches at a 6A high school that finished the year with state championship and top ten ranking in the nation was watching their incoming freshmen this summer and had me go watch a couple of kids play while we were in Atlanta.  If the players are good enough to play as a freshman in most high schools, they are playing top level travel ball and most of the time playing up on top level teams. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

I don't  believe that freshmen should play on varsity...ever..regardless of talent..they should be with their peers at that level...it will help them in the long run.

That makes no sense....if a kid can has a desire to play beyond HS, can play at the varsity level, get adequate playing time and contribute, of course he should.   When a kid gets to college as a freshman, he's playing against kids 3 years older from day 1 of fall practice.  Obviously not every HS freshman is ready for varsity, but if he's able to handle it, there's no reason why he shouldn't. 

My son pitched varsity as a freshman and played third for the freshman team when he wasn't pitching. I think he handled it well. What gave me pause was the day I said — "Joey looked a little off at second today, is he okay?"

Son responded "he quit drinking. I don't understand it, but he seemed to play better when he was hungover."

CatcherDadNY posted:

I don't  believe that freshmen should play on varsity...ever..regardless of talent..they should be with their peers at that level...it will help them in the long run.

Probably best to not apply a blanket statement to a situation with so many variables. 

A player should be challenged at whatever level he plays at. If not he's most likely not improving. 

My son played varsity as a freshman. It presented some challenges. The older players didn't like sitting/seeing their friends sit behind a freshman.  The coach believed the older players had earned a right to start. 

Went to college and, because of injuries was asked to be PO. PC tried to change his delivery for whatever reason with poor results. So a kid that was a three-time all-state, on his HS's wall of fame, etc sat the bench his freshman year. On top of that went to summer ball, five outfielders on the team. The coach had promised two of them unlimited playing time. Spent the summer sharing right field with two other players.  He didn't like any of it. Told his college coach he got screwed. But he stuck it out. Went back this fall and through two exhibition games and live pitching intrasquad games almost doubled the team BA. Has put himself into a good position going into spring. 

I had a really, really tough childhood. The wife tells me that's made me cold and uncaring. IDK, but it did make me indifferent/unsympathetic to the trials and tribulations my kids "endured" growing up.  They got a lot of "I don't want to hear it. Just deal with it, and that doesn't mean whining and crying about things" from me. I'm sure that caused some hard feelings back in the day but now, as they both get out into the real world, I think they are starting to see maybe I did them a favor.

Another local HS by me is in the lower tier and is in the middle of a program rebuild (new HC). They only have JV and V. The jv team can probably be beat by a decent MS team. The HC put the freshman on the team so he could monitor and control their development but they will barely play in games. Sadly maybe 1 kid from the jv team may make V