Big League World Series on ESPN Question

I am watching it also. It is Little League's version of Senior Babe Ruth. I believe it may run age wise 16-19. They have tourney's just like regular LL..districts to states to Regionals to WS.

I think the talent is so...so especially the pitching. My son is 15 and throws as hard as California's pitcher 81-84. Then again most of the good kids are playing travel ball instead of rec ball in California. Fastest pitch has been 85 I believe and that was a 18 yr old JC kid.

Still fun to watch kids play though!!

quote:

Originally posted by redsox8191:
Then again most of the good kids are playing travel ball instead of rec ball in California.

This is rec ball? I agree that the pitching is pretty average. Most of the players are very solid and show athleticism. CA just turned a nifty 5-4-3 DP.

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lol...this is very much Rec ball!! That is why the coaches kid is in centerfield! It is literally an extension of Little League. The California team actually played in the LLWS. It is 100% rec ball.
And why the pitching is eh...the good pitchers playing rec ball are probably playing Legion Ball. That is what happens up here. The top Varsity players play Legion and the rest of the Varsity and good JV kids play Sr Babe Ruth, the equivalent of this.

quote:

Originally posted by redsox8191:
lol...this is very much Rec ball!! That is why the coaches kid is in centerfield! It is literally an extension of Little League. The California team actually played in the LLWS. It is 100% rec ball.
And why the pitching is eh...the good pitchers playing rec ball are probably playing Legion Ball. That is what happens up here. The top Varsity players play Legion and the rest of the Varsity and good JV kids play Sr Babe Ruth, the equivalent of this.

Interesting. Ya I heard the announcers say they were in the LLWS. The best players in CA are playing for ABD though.

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Exactly!! That is how a high school LF is suddenly the starting catcher for California all the good catchers in town play travel ball. They must be fairly good as they were in the finals last year too. They have decent size height wise but they need to eat a few cheeseburgers...lanky kids..lol.

Explains why so many breaking pitches go for balls too...yeesh!!

Ya, they're still young yet, still time to eat lots of cheeseburgers, lol.

If this is just rec ball, kinda makes me wish espn would televise East Cost Pro, Area Code Games, or any Perfect Game event. But I suppose if this has LLWS ties, I understand why they do it.

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I believe it is a part of ESPN extending the LLWS coverage. Just like they cover the softball WS some too. You want to show the LLWS you'll show these other LL properties too.

And even though it is rec ball it is fun to watch.

I agree it would be awesome in october to watch the WWBA Championship from Jupiter Florida on Fox sports. PG needs to make that happen!! I'd watch for sure!

Careful. 4 of the kids on the team were on the team that placed 4th in the USA Baseball's 16U championship team beating a bunch of the California/Arizona Academy teams in the process. Tyler Abbot 6'6" lefty (not pitching) is going to UC Irvine next year. They are clearly out of pitching however...The 5-4-3 double play they just turned was no league play!

quote:

Originally posted by redsox8191:
I agree it would be awesome in october to watch the WWBA Championship from Jupiter Florida on Fox sports. PG needs to make that happen!! I'd watch for sure!

Yes that would be awesome!

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Wish he was pitching tonight. Heard he had been drafted in the 44th round and was going to UC Irvine.

But most of these kids are basically rec kids. I'm not knocking them..my own kid was a rec kid this summer (Babe Ruth). But he is only 15 and throwing low 80's not 18 and doing so.

Good point BOF. I've seen some of the Championship games in the WWBA tournaments and some of them were flat out sloppy compared to the earlier tournament games. The players were still outstanding but the teams were sometimes playing their 5th or 6th game in 2 or 3 days and something like 11th game in 6 days.

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Aside from broadcasting all the LLWS games and regional semis and finals, ESPN broadcasts every level of LL championships for boys and girls. The levels are Majors (11/12), Juniors (13/14), Seniors (15/16) and Big League (17/18). Some are tape delayed. You will see the LL softball WS just before the LLWS. It used to drive me nuts to see championship softball played on a grass field.

It's not travel. It's kids having fun playing ball. It's all part of the package (LLWS) ESPN really wants.

It's my understanding that the majority of the kids from California (Thousand Oaks) had participated and won the 9-10 year old LL State Championship a few years back. They also apparently went far their 12 year old season, making it to Williamsport and the LL World Series? I'm assuming that they just wanted a chance at one more run and chose to stick together this summer?

I'm with most of you, I'd never heard of the Big League World Series until tonight! True, the pitching wasn't very strong (although the closer from PR was decent and I'm sure both rosters had depleted their pitching?), but in the couple innings that I watched, the defense appeared to be solid.

I'd say the coverage for the older HS kids is coming along, the AFLAC game will be televised again and people are getting the opportunity to see how much talent there is around the country.

The Puerto Rican 3rd baseman supposedly had hit 94 on the mound. You've seen one game...I wouldn't be so critical

quote:

Originally posted by baseball168:
The Puerto Rican 3rd baseman supposedly had hit 94 on the mound. You've seen one game...I wouldn't be so critical

Agreed! And I believe the left fielder for PR, DeJesus (ML Bloodlines?) was drafted in the 4th round?

Yes, a little research shows he was a 6th round pick and is committed to UAB.

I'm guessing he got cut from the local American Legion team...

It is a mix. One or two of these kids played on a pretty good scout team in SoCal. I know Brady was on that team. He can play. There was some daddy ball going on, but Ginther showed that he was a producer. Did anyone notice that he's almost 19 and going to be a senior in HS? He's been moved around and held back to give him a chance to compete. BTW, it is league age 18 as the upper limit which means some of the players will be 19 at this time of year. I'm not sure Abbot belonged in the lineup especially considering the banged up knee. On the other hand I have no idea who else they had who could have played the position so that's just speculation. This team would be a middle of the pack HS team with weak hitting in our HS league. Abbot was a very good #2 pitcher for Royal, but benefitted to some degree from pitching against the weaker teams more often than not.

There's a minimum # of games the players have to play during the season to be eligible for the all-star team. My guess is that some of the "studs" make several 1 inning appearances during the season to be eligible. TO has been able to recruit decent players year in and year out for this team, but at this level the league extends well beyond Thousand Oaks and includes players from Moorpark, Simi, etc. I may be wrong but I believe they had Andrew Lambo the year they won it.

I'm not sure that all 3 of the kids they were talking about were on the 10yo team that won the SoCal championship. There wasn't a true state championship at that level if I remember correctly. It was similar but not exactly the same kids who were on the 12yo team who were US LL champs. For example, Cody Thomson was on their #2 team that year if I remember correctly, or maybe that was for the 9yo tournament that our kids won. They beat our 10yo a couple times to win the district. My son threw out a couple runners in a row from right field and almost got the third in a row to keep us in the first game. I was out of town for the second game and heard they beat our kids fairly handily that game.

One interesting thing I noted was that Puerto Rico kept going to pitchers with more velocity as they went along. That seems to work better than going from higher to lower velocity unless there's a really big difference such as going to the soft tosser from TO the last couple innings.

quote:

Originally posted by redsox8191:
lol...this is very much Rec ball!! That is why the coaches kid is in centerfield! It is literally an extension of Little League. The California team actually played in the LLWS. It is 100% rec ball.
And why the pitching is eh...the good pitchers playing rec ball are probably playing Legion Ball. That is what happens up here. The top Varsity players play Legion and the rest of the Varsity and good JV kids play Sr Babe Ruth, the equivalent of this.

You watch a couple games on tv and all of a sudden you're a National talent evaluator. Just because a kid does not play for a "certain team" or a "certain organization" he is categorized as a rec ball player. A bunch of BS in my opinion. There are so many intangibles why kids play where they do. The pompous mindset of many that puts only the chosen ones on the pedestal is a big reason youth baseball is dropping in numbers around the country. I've never understood why some refuse to accept "different strokes for different folks" mentality and refuse to acknowledge the fact that there are great players who play at different organizational levels. IMO calling them rec players insults 90% of the readers of this site who's kids work their a$$es off in an attempt to realize a dream but will never wear a certain jersey, or play for a certain organization.

JMO

My response about them being rec ball was in direct answer to the OP's original question. It is rec ball, it is run by Little League Baseball. Is Little League Baseball not Recreational baseball? I answered the question honestly and truthfully.

I also stated in a post that my OWN SON PLAYED REC BALL THIS SUMMER!! Surely you don't think that rec ball is for the most part on par with high level travel ball?

If you want to tell me that that team represented the best California has to offer then you are out of your mind!! I live in little NH a state with little opportunity to play high level travel ball so rec ball is still the king. The top high school players play for the Legion teams and the rest of the good players play for Sr Babe Ruth the equivalent of that LL league. Son just finished his regular Babe Ruth (13-15yrs old) He will likely play Legion or Sr Babe Ruth next year. But I'm sorry but 83mph doesn't cut it as top flight pitching for an 18yr old even up here in NH far from the baseball mecca that California is. It may have been one game but it wasn't a good example then of the true level of play.

Bottom line..I was asked what level of play it was an answered correctly 100% rec ball. End of story.

Did you even watch the game RZ1?

redsox,
Certainly LL is recball. However, that doesn't mean that the championships teams are playing at a "recball" level. The Conejo Valley (Thousand Oaks) team that won the 12yo national championship in 2004 was a very good open level travel team even without all of the players.

When I say that these teams would have been middle of the pack HS teams in our HS league that means that they'd be one of the better HS teams in the country. That isn't recball level to me.

Would they beat one of the better scout ball teams in our area? Probably not, but that doesn't mean they are playing at a "recball" level.

Don't fool yourself, the best players on the TO team probably didn't play much at all in the recball regular season. Most of them played only enough to be eligible for the all-star team and that isn't much.

Abbot was the #2 pitcher at Royal, and Royal was ranked #73 in the nation by MaxPreps. Royal's #1 just signed for about $600K. The number 23 overall pick in the draft played for the 5th or 6th place team in the league.

Every level of Little League = Rec ball

Every level of Babe Ruth = Rec Ball

Those are facts....sorry. All-star level team or not...still Rec Ball. No negative connotation being connected to it at all it is REC BALL. Excellent team and could beat some high school teams ok...but they still play rec ball through the Little League organization. That is all I am saying.

sr little league holds their world series in bangor maine.since 2002. they have had a few players from curasow(i know thats spelled wrong) go to umaine from the ws. i think what was on was a regional tournament.

most states don't have sr LL,we don't as our state is a big cal/br state. i believe at one time we had the 2nd most cr leagues in the country at 70+. my town is one of 20 or so LL in the state. i would much rather see us play the 70 other leagues. but thats another story.

i agree with rz, where you play doesn't mean your not good. all travel teams aren't all good, goes both way's with rec.ball.

quote:

Originally posted by redsox8191:
Every level of Little League = Rec ball

Every level of Babe Ruth = Rec Ball

Those are facts....sorry. All-star level team or not...still Rec Ball. No negative connotation being connected to it at all it is REC BALL. Excellent team and could beat some high school teams ok...but they still play rec ball through the Little League organization. That is all I am saying.

Well said! My 14U was flipping channels last night when he came upon ESPN2's coverage. His first comment was Dad "how old are these guys... the pitching is horrible?" Watched it for a few minutes with him & we could easily tell what it was (LL), & agreed some of the worst pitching by teens we'd watched in a long time.

Limited quality baseball coverage on cable this month is a big reason I drop a few bucks beginning of August every year for the premium pkg of MLB.TV. ESPN's ever glowing coverage of Little League Baseball is too much to stomach.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:...
most states don't have sr LL,we don't as our state is a big cal/br state. i believe at one time we had the 2nd most cr leagues in the country at 70+. my town is one of 20 or so LL in the state. i would much rather see us play the 70 other leagues. but thats another story.

i agree with rz, where you play doesn't mean your not good. all travel teams aren't all good, goes both way's with rec.ball.

There's only 3 or 4 affiliated Little Leagues in my state, so you can imagine how much SR league. The LL team that makes it out of Tulsa & on to Waco (regionals) never makes it any further. Our local alternative is just too strong & attracts all the "players". Just a fact of life.

From what I saw, these kids played better than some HS teams and some of these so called select teams.

I'm kinda surprised that these kids are getting knocked for being so-called rec players. I saw a couple pitchers hit mid and upper 80s. Now tell me that's average for high school and I'll tell you you got a screw loose and can't read a gun.

I hear about so many kids in hs that this one and that one throws 90. In all my years of watching HS ball, I could probably count on one hand the number of kids who may be close to or possibly even hit 90. Most typical HS pitchers throw somewhere in the low 80s and some mid 80s with off speed stuff in the 60s and 70s. Not unlike what I saw in the big league world series.

Am blessed to live to live in a hot spot of very competitive HS sports. While Football is still KING in these parts, lots of very high quality HS pitching. Just this last Spring in watching a few dozen games, witnessed Bundy, Bradley, & Blackburn (2011's) all dealing serious heat. Looking forward to next Spring.

Considering that these organization teams have restrictions of who can play, I think they far surpass the travel ball unlimited pickings teams.

I've seen some Mickey Mantle Word Series games and teams that could play anywhere at their age level. Same goes for PONY. Nice venues and international play.

I've also seen some AFLAC and Cape Cod HS Sr games that were terrible by any standard.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:

I hear about so many kids in hs that this one and that one throws 90. In all my years of watching HS ball, I could probably count on one hand the number of kids who may be close to or possibly even hit 90.

During my son's years as a starting HS catcher, he caught 5 different pitchers over three years at his Tampa high school (one for each finger of a hand.)

Three sat in the low 90's and touched mid 90's and two that sat in the high 80's and touched 90 (got to have the lefties.) I can reference PG profiles with names and gunned times if you would like.

Everybody needs to get off of their high horse and stop speaking so negatively about this baseball. Whatever level it is, the kids aren't that bad. Mid 80s consistently for HS players isn't bad, contrary to what you think your son can do. Granted, if these are the two best senior league teams in the country, the average level of play for senior league is probably lower than some other organizations.

With that said, both teams had very talented players and pitchers, were late in a tournament (didn't have their best guys going), and still weren't that bad. I'm not sure if everyone in New Hampshire throws 96 but I'm from California, and it really wasn't that bad. Not exceptional, not ESPN2 worthy, but by calling all of these players "rec ball players", it sounds like you're saying they're lousy. You may not intend it that way, but that is the connotation of "rec ball".

quote:

Originally posted by redsox8191:
Bottom line..I was asked what level of play it was an answered correctly 100% rec ball. End of story.

Did you even watch the game RZ1?

I don't think it was an answer, it was an opinion. And no, I didn't see the game, but, wish I had. My point is that it's unfair to pigeon hole a huge group with a "rec" title when you don't have an experts knowledge of the complete "culture". With that said, IMO, anything played on the little diamond is rec ball and that includes all-star teams because they are many times selected as a "who you are" versus a talent level. That includes the LL WS because I'm sure many of those kids drop off the field as soon as the bases reach 90'. Kids 12 and under do not understand the true definition of commitment and passion and until they do they are playing the game in a recreational manner. Again, that's just my opinion.....not an answer.

If you're going to categorize with an older group, tag a player as a "rec" player, not the organization.

Don't kid yourself about this being "rec" ball. I coached in PA state championship last year and this year and got beat both times by a team from Williamsport, PA. Last year's team was by far one of the best I have ever seen at that age. They were PA state champs, regional champs and finished top 5 in World Series (I think). Many are now playing at good DI schools.
We had a district all-star team that also traveled for tournament play to get extra games. We won 3 of the 5 we entered last year and still got whooped by Williamsport. Their team consists of the greater Williamsport area which is one AAA school, 3 AA schools and one A school.
We have what I consider a lower upper-level team (if that makes any sense) for the area we play (Upstate New York, PA, Maryland, NJ) and have beaten many of the "established" teams/organizations.
So, the level of play is pretty high, maybe not top notch blue chip prospects throughout, but good none-the-less. What gets lost in all of this is the idea that it is much harder to "inherit" a bunch of kids that throw 90. That just isn't a reality. Heck, most teams are lucky if they have two kids who throw upper 80's. The bulk of the teams that are good regional teams have maybe one guy in the upper 80's or 90 and the rest are spot pitchers with good "stuff" or a lefty with good movement.
Also, the point about watching what may be the 5th game in the last four days is a valid point as well and might account for some of the play that you are seeing, not to mention the ridiculous LL pitching rules for this age group....ah, but that is for another discussion.

The Louisiana team that was put out by Cali in, I believe, a pool tie breaker has 3 D1 signees that I know of. The RF is also a quaterback and plans to be a 2 sporter.

I really wish some of you wouldn't say "rec ball" as if it is a dirty word. The Louisiana bunch was 31-4 and the cost was only a couple of hundred bucks. I watched them play several times including their games at the SW Regional at LA Tech. I assure you they play competetive ball. Not every one can and/or desires to spend thousands on travel ball.

ETA: I wonder how many guys in the majors played "rec ball"

The skill level may be so-so, but they're getting some major exposure playing on ESPN2.

quote:

Originally posted by MarlinsMS_35:
The skill level may be so-so...

Compared to what? The top 5-10% of all teams that age group in the Country? In my book that's a little better than so-so

quote:

Originally posted by MarlinsMS_35:
..they're getting some major exposure playing on ESPN2.

Heck, forget the exposure. Those guys were on ESPN. How many kids out there can say that? My oldest son can. He was on "College Game Day" for about 5 seconds!! Standing right behind Lee Corso when they were at Bama a couple of years ago. Even got a Home Depot Game Day hard hat!

quote:

Originally posted by Backstop-17:

During my son's years as a starting HS catcher, he caught 5 different pitchers over three years at his Tampa high school (one for each finger of a hand.)

Three sat in the low 90's and touched mid 90's and two that sat in the high 80's and touched 90 (got to have the lefties.) I can reference PG profiles with names and gunned times if you would like.

I don't question that they're out there. In Fla, there's more players and the weather is perfect to play year round, but I used to hear stories about this kid and thst kid, then I see them pitch and come to the conclusion they're blowing smoke. Unless they're getting gunned, you can count on dad and other eyewitnesses that somebody's fastball is 5-10 miles faster than it really is. Happens all the time.

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I've also seen some AFLAC and Cape Cod HS Sr games that were terrible by any standard.

Quincy, being involved with every Aflac game ever played, I'm curious as to which games you saw that were terrible by any standard. Let's use the standard of "talent" and "results".

In the 7 drafts that have included Aflac players there have been 80 first round picks and many other second round picks that played in the Aflac Game. That means that nearly one of every three Aflac players becomes a first round pick!

I have no opinion about the LL Game that was televised as I didn't see it. I do know that the last one I watched a year or two ago was pretty good. The South Carolina pitcher definitely threw in the 90s in that one. He also played in several WWBA events. I enjoy any amateur baseball game that is televised... It's all good!

What I want to know is why people are knocking these kids ?---they are doing something that others are not--give the kids credit AND they are on ESPN