Big Mac finally comes clean

NO KIDDING!

Good thing we were able to connect the dots...........well, at least some of us!

Another feather in Canseco's cap.

Link to foxnews article here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582790,00.html

Good to see him back in public and fess up. Inspite of his mistakes he has always been a class guy IMHO. Canseco has been and will always be a clown.

quote:

Originally posted by D1:
NO KIDDING!

Good thing we were able to connect the dots...........well, at least some of us!

Another feather in Canseco's cap.

To connect the dots one must be willing to open their eyes.

Jeez, McGwire? Steriods? Never saw that comin...

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Well, ya know cause he had Andro in his locker and because he never fessed up when he was in front of Congress means he must not have used steroids.

Good thing some of us aren't teachers and have little Tommy coming to class everyday telling us the dog ate his homework. Cause we all know little Tommy would never lie and we should naievely believe every word little Tommy has to say.

quote:

Originally posted by D1:
Well, ya know cause he had Andro in his locker and because he never fessed up when he was in front of Congress means he must not have used steroids.

Good thing some of us aren't teachers and have little Tommy coming to class everyday telling us the dog ate his homework. Cause we all know little Tommy would never lie and we should naievely believe every word little Tommy has to say.

As a teacher, I can tell you that "the dog ate my homework" has been replaced with, "My computer crashed" and "My brother lost my thumb drive".

I loved watching Big Mac Play and I always appreciated that he stayed in St louis when he could have left for a lot more money. Guess I am glad he finally stated publically what we all had known.

For some reason I never put him in the same camp as Bonds.

Finally.

Until the confession there was nothing but conjecture and one possible witness (Canseco). I'd hate to be in court with a jury making their decision on lack of evidence, conjecture and assumptions. It's not what the American justice system is based. Any way other than confession and/or evidence is a lynching.

Sorry, but time for Tony LaRussa and other close buddies like Bobby Knight to eat a little humble pie about now. They used their access to the media to continually stump on McGwire's behalf and proclaim his innocence.

Jose Canseco was spot on with regards to rampant steriod use, and, the names just keep on coming.

La Russa immediately praised McGwire's decision to go public.

"His willingness to admit mistakes, express his regret, and explain the circumstances that led him to use steroids add to my respect for him," the manager said.


Uhhh, hopefully this is taken a little out of context...what could be interpreted here is that he has more respect for him now than when he thought he didn't take steroids?

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Until the confession there was nothing but conjecture and one possible witness (Canseco). I'd hate to be in court with a jury making their decision on lack of evidence,

True, in a court of law. This is not a court of law and none of the posts or threads on Leach, McGwire, USC,etc. have had any constitutional restrictions. There was no demand for admissable evidence in the other threads, why now?

As a juror I would need to see more evidence that I have seen. As a guy having a cold refreshment after work with a couple of friends discussing McGwire and his refusal to answer the questions in the past, I had seen enough.

quote:

Originally posted by DaddyBo:
La Russa immediately praised McGwire's decision to go public.

"His willingness to admit mistakes, express his regret, and explain the circumstances that led him to use steroids add to my respect for him," the manager said.


Uhhh, hopefully this is taken a little out of context...what could be interpreted here is that he has more respect for him now than when he thought he didn't take steroids?

Maybe he meant exactly what he said?!? It's Tony LaRusso talking after all!

I can't believe Mark took steroids! He was so thin. The reason he didn't leave St Louis for more money is because he would have been seperated from his drug source. Even class people can fall. Hope he does more for the game now to make it up. HOF ? Don't think he deserves that. That is the consequence for his actions. IMHO

When someone is willing to mount the witness stand, put their left hand on the Bible and their right hand to God, and swear that they shoved a steroid-laden hypodermic needle into the man's rear end, that is evidence. You can question the guy's credibility if you want, but given that his statements also generally implicate himself as well, they would normally be taken in court as credible. We send people to prison all the time on the testimony of their accomplices, and lots of them are shady characters, yet we investigate their credibility and often (not always, mind you) find reasons to believe them.

Pretty much everything Canseco has said about steroids, with the possible exception of his hyperbole as to the percentage of players using (and by hyperbole, I mean to say that he never really meant the percentage he gave to be taken seriously), has been proven true thus far. At this point, if Canseco says it with respect to steroids, I'm pretty much inclined to believe him.

We seem to have a group of people around here who are not willing to accept anything short of a confession as sufficient proof. Some even speak of eyewitness testimony as "hearsay", which is simply wrong. I don't understand this. Lots of wrongdoers never, ever admit what they did. We can't let their self-serving denials of what is evident blind us.

I'm glad McGwire has come clean. I suspect the timing has to do with the decline in his HOF vote last week. He had probably hoped that his % would rise steadily over time as this faded into memory. With that apparently not likely to happen, he's fessing up. I'm sure he hopes he can start having that % climb to where it might reach 75% before his eligibility expires. Honestly, I don't know if that will happen, but I think he perceives this as his only shot. And in that he is probably right.

He also has the advantage of having simply put Congress off on the issue, as compared to, say, Palmiero, for whom confessing could mean a perjury prosecution a la Bonds due to his unequivocal denials under oath.

For that reason, I wonder what Palmiero will do when his HOF vote comes in low next year. He could be the first non-gambler 3,000 hit guy not to make the HOF. Not to mention all the HR's and the Gold Gloves. That puts him almost up there with Pete Rose in the pariah category. McGwire might not have made the HOF anyway. He's a one-tool guy whose one tool is tainted. Palmiero would be a shoo-in but for the steroids issue.

To get in, Palmiero either has to thoroughly discredit the reports against him, or confess and hope for forgiveness over time. The problem with the latter is, it could send him to the federal penitentiary for some years. My guess is he will continue to complain of being wrongly accused and place his hopes on being given the benefit of the doubt eventually.

Spot on Midlo.

Good stuff Midlo!

I am somewhat surprised by McGwire's confession. Not that he made it, but the 10 years part of the confession. I figured he was probably clean the first several years of his career and got involved with it late when the records started to fall. I guess I was wrong about that assessment

I felt there could have been a middle ground here on the HOF voting. Suppose a contrite McGwire would have stated his mistakes before Congress but said at the time he felt compelled to use because of the laisse faire attitude in baseball on the subject. That might have allowed some voters to vote based on the argument "If he had never used, would he have been a hall of famer anyways?" It is almost impossible to tell now.

How about a guy like Don Mattingly. He was on his way to a hall of fame career which was cut short due to a back injury. McGuire bought himself maybe up to 10 years by his own admission today that he used steriods to "get himself back on the field." Does that make him hall of fame? I really don't think so. This is why I feel there is no middle ground with these guys. It did effect the performance and numbers!

What I find very interesting is what Harold Baines said on MLBTV today about getting 5 years of his career run short because a defensive minded bunting, stealing, singles hitting 2nd baseman was no longer desirable when the roid/long ball era became vogue.

He states that the game now has a chance to move back to its purist form with stealing and defense making a comeback. Other commentators state that it is moving in that direction.

Maybe someday we will get more left and right fielders that can make plays and throw the ball to the plate. Looks like a ways off for that though.

My sense is that every time a player admits to having used, it is a positive. It is a bit of torture but it is positive. Clearly, it takes a a fair amount of courage to do so, knowing what is coming from the media.
What is also true, and I am in complete agreement with Midlo, is Canseco continues to be vindicated in what he has said.
What is missing from that vindication, to date, is MLB admitting its knowledge and its looking the other way while the $$$$$$ poured into the bank accounts of the owners. In the not too distant future, we likely will see Bud in that look of his doing this...
While I don't remember it by chapter/verse, the Mitchell report included several illustrations where MLB and its teams knew and looked the other way. The most vivid was the scouting report on LoDuca talking about his using and how much value/production he had for trade while using vs. not.
To my way of thinking, this period of baseball won't be on its way to complete healing until Bud and MLB take ownership of their part, as the Mitchell report suggested they should. That opportunity occurred when Bud said, a number of years back, that he would launch an investigation about what the Giants team trainer, Stan Conte, reported having told the Giant's front office about steroid use with Bonds and possibly others.
The silence remains deafening on that one.

This is very shocking to me? How did I miss all the signs? What a man to stand up and come clean..

Mac took the job as Redbirds MLB hitting coach months ago, so sooner or later he would have to come up with his confession, no way could the organization, who has enough issues with kids getting busted, allow him to come to spring training without a statement.
From what I hear the whole thing was engineered by LaRussa, who felt he had too much to offer, and they allowed him to take the opportunity to anounce his confession when he thought that the time was right.

While not refreshing to hear the truth, because of the probable HOF motivation, it was refreshing to hear the details. Today, we tend to get the Tiger PR release, or ARod confession of mysterious steroids, or the only did it once type. He came out and manned up to the 10 year hitch.

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Hey Kokomojo...

I agree with Harold and the others!

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quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
He came out and manned up to the 10 year hitch.

Totally disagree with this statement.

He didnt man up, he had a chance to man up when he was in front of Congress. He just finally decided to come clean.

quote:

Originally posted by D1:

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
He came out and manned up to the 10 year hitch.

Totally disagree with this statement.

He didnt man up, he had a chance to man up when he was in front of Congress. He just finally decided to come clean.

Slightly disagree with your take here D1. Apparently, he would have still been under some legal jeopardy when he testified before congress as there was no immunity granted (as reported by ESPN). The statute of limitations ran out in 2006 however. Thus, to have really manned up, perhaps he should have come clean in 2006

Watching him right now with Costas on MLBTV.

I sure hate to see grown men cry !!!!!

Ah, I see, so when the stautute of limitations runs out is when men should talk about their transgressions.
That doesnt sound like manning up to me at all.

the truth is cleansing for the soul. they will all tell the truth eventually. to hard to live with a lie, the money helps though.

i'm glad that he did fess up, to admit to 10 yrs of use is unheard of today.

quote:

Originally posted by D1:
Ah, I see, so when the stautute of limitations runs out is when men should talk about their transgressions.
That doesnt sound like manning up to me at all.

Fair enough.

Kokomojo,
You must be talking about Harold Reynolds, not Harold Baines--Baines was a DH most of his 20 yr career and had no speed. He was 42 years old when he retired. But Reynolds won't admit that maybe .316 and .310 OBP as a leadoff batter in two of his final 3 years as well as a pathetic .290 slugging % might of had more to do with why he didn't get 5 more years. He also stole only 37 out 67 attempts his last 3 seasons. In truth he wasn't much of a player.

quote:

What I find very interesting is what Harold Baines said on MLBTV today about getting 5 years of his career run short because a defensive minded bunting, stealing, singles hitting 2nd baseman was no longer desirable when the roid/long ball era became vogue.

kokomojo, that sounds more like Harold Reynolds???
Whichever Harold it is, he might want to read some HSBBW threads on hitting.
Seems to me like there is a lot of "discussion" and "teaching" on this site about power, driving the ball and HR's and not too much about bat control, situational hitting, hitting behind runners and the like.
While college teammates might love the fact you advanced a runner from 2B to 3B by grounding out to the right side when they are jamming you inside with 2 strikes and no outs in a tie game, most fans attending an MLB game could care less.
While I love the game you are talking about, my belief is "Chicks dig the long ball" is still true, ESPN digs the long ball is still true, owners dig the $$$$$$ is still true and long ball has a better chance of equating to $$$$$$ than playing the game you heard discussed today.

While I can't condone what he did in the first place this is close enough to "manning" up for me. People aren't perfect and most everyone has skeletons in their closet.

Welcome back MAC!

Now go do some good, to make up for your bad choices. You can help my kid hit anytime, I've got the other stuff covered.

GED10DaD

Yes Harold Reynolds. My bad.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
While I can't condone what he did in the first place this is close enough to "manning" up for me. People aren't perfect and most everyone has skeletons in their closet.

Doesnt work for me, he admitted much to late- most likely to serve his own ends now, he says he did use "for health reasons" mainly! OH BROTHER!!!- and he messed with my favorite player's record- the true record holder - MARIS!

His version of manning up seems like taking care of business now so he is not botrhered with it when he starts coaching- so... still thinking about me, me, me, - for Markie

You know you have fallen far when Canseco has more truth value than you do

I have to say, I was mesmerized by his interview with Costas. I don't take back anything I said above, but I really walked away believing he is genuinely contrite and remorseful.

So many times you feel like they just read what their PR flacks wrote for them. Like he did for Congress years ago. This was really emotional.

I truly hope players and the future players out there hear his message about steroids -- "The stupidest thing I ever did."

I have also wondered about those years he lost to heel issues, back problems, etc. Connective tissue problems are one of the things you hear about with steroids. It does make you wonder if maybe that big year was inflated, but maybe his career numbers actually suffered on balance. After all, this is a guy who set the rookie HR record (49) years before he started juicing. Who knows how many more he might've hit if he'd've stayed healthy.

Personally I would not vote for him for the Hall, but I certainly don't object to his being back in the game. Even convicted felons get second chances in life. I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be given the chance to earn an honest living in his chosen field. I'd rather have my son share a dugout with him than a lot of others I could name.

Its good that Mark McGwire finally fessed up.

I am sure that he feels better now - and that is a good thing. He seems like a good person and a caring human being.

He is also a liar and a cheater. That is a fact.

Do we forgive - why not?

Do we forget - Never.

Really "manning up" is living with stuff like this - and dealing with it. No whining - no more lying.

He cheated the game, the fans and himself - and now its his to deal with for the rest of his life.

Good luck and good bye Mark.