And whats really sad is we have no way of knowing for sure when he actually started juicing other than what he says now. We have no way knowing for sure if he was or was not juicing as a rookie. Do we take his word on it?
I think this confession is more about what it does for Mark than anyone else or anything else. It allows him to finally feel free inside. It allows him to finally move forward with his life. Living a lie takes a heavy toll on a person who is indeed a good person. I and I believe Mark is a good person. He is also a cheater who got caught and then had to finally fess up.
So I hope he can have peace within finally and move on with his life. But that does not mean there will not be consequences for those actions as he has found out. And it does not mean that those decisions he made years ago will not haunt him for the rest of his life. That is the price those pay that cheat the game.
We are all free to choose our own actions. We are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Mac took the job as Redbirds MLB hitting coach months ago, so sooner or later he would have to come up with his confession, no way could the organization, who has enough issues with kids getting busted, allow him to come to spring training without a statement.
From what I hear the whole thing was engineered by LaRussa, who felt he had too much to offer, and they allowed him to take the opportunity to anounce his confession when he thought that the time was right.
A couple of months ago when the topic of Big Mac was brought up as a possible hitting coach, Tony LaRussa stated THEN that Mark would have to address the steriods issue. Tony went as far as to say that there would be a media day included in the package for Mark to address the issue for St. Louis fans and media. This now is the first step but does not come as a surprise to anyone in Cardinal Nation since this has been on the burner for a couple of months. On another website I belong to, there are 237 posts essentially on this issue since November. All essentially trying to lay out a time table and strategy for the upcoming spring training. As some of you might know, Mark is seen as someone who will work with the hitters in the organization but of whom many of the veteran players already work with in the off season.
I think that there are a couple of other things that need to be addressed. In pleading the 5th Amendment, he did not lie to anyone. We all, as American, are entitled to this same right. To deny that is to deny the validity of the U.S. Constitution as it pertains to all of our rights. In regards to the use of Andro etc. some of that was never denied simply because there were too many photos post game where a can was visiable in his locker. I don't know, or can't recall, any quotes about steriod use itself where he denied it. I'm sure some of you might be able to find one or two. It'd be interesting to read in lieu of today's remarks.
Finally, here in St. Louis, many are focused on a statement by Tony that he might consider activating Big Mac around playoff time. Some in Cardinal Nation have wondered if this is a strategy to move back this time table for HOF voting.
CoachB,
Understand your perspective.
Mine differs a bit.
I look at it this way.
Whether he outright lied - or walked the fine line of cheating - and just never denying the cheating - the real issue when dealing with him in the future is both logical and reasonable IMO.
"Will he cheat some other way - and do the same thing"?
I sure as heck wouldnt make that bet with Mark McGwire. I am sure others will take that chance - but I wouldnt given his past "performances".
Understand your perspective.
Mine differs a bit.
I look at it this way.
Whether he outright lied - or walked the fine line of cheating - and just never denying the cheating - the real issue when dealing with him in the future is both logical and reasonable IMO.
"Will he cheat some other way - and do the same thing"?
I sure as heck wouldnt make that bet with Mark McGwire. I am sure others will take that chance - but I wouldnt given his past "performances".
I remember back in the spring of 1992, a friend and myself commented to each other how much bigger McGwire had gotten over the winter. He had probably gained 30 or 35 pounds especially in his thighs, chest and back. This followed a disasterous year in which he talked about retiring. I have every reason to believe that this was when he started usind PED's reguarly. I was into the bodybuilding scene for about 7 years right before that time and I'll make a blanket statement here. If you see any athlete come back from aa single offseason where he's gained 25, 30, or more pounds and its lean cut muscle, he is juicing. Dykstra did it, Sosa did it, and Bonds did it. You are just flat in denial if you don't recognize, you cannot cut up and build massive bulk at the same time in a three or four month period without roids. This is especially true for some guy that weighed 170 to 220 lbs when he started. Any guy that has his best seasons after 35--name one clean guy who did. Even though Ryan had very good years after 35 they weren't his best years. So I believe he was was clean. I will admit this--when the andro was found in McGwire's locker I knew for sure.
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
CoachB,
Understand your perspective.
Mine differs a bit.
I look at it this way.
Whether he outright lied - or walked the fine line of cheating - and just never denying the cheating - the real issue when dealing with him in the future is both logical and reasonable IMO.
"Will he cheat some other way - and do the same thing"?
I sure as heck wouldnt make that bet with Mark McGwire. I am sure others will take that chance - but I wouldnt given his past "performances".
itsinthegame, I've not made it a secret that I have a different perspective since I also know McGwire's wife Stephanie. She's a former student/player. I used to work with the girl's basketball team each year for 2 weeks prior to the start of our boy's season and so, I thought the world of her and her approach to the game. I hope that this all ends one chapter in their life and opens up another. I wish Mark the best now and hope he is welcomed to St. Louis.
CoachB,
A quote from a Rep. is not exactly persuasive. In fact - for me - I recoil immediately. LOL
The world is full of people that would have done the right thing - but..............
or would have said the right thing, but............
Mark could have - but the fact is - he didnt.
I hope he does well and does some good in the future - but he wont be interviewing for a job with my company anytime soon.
Just cant be trusted. IMO - Simple as that.
A quote from a Rep. is not exactly persuasive. In fact - for me - I recoil immediately. LOL
The world is full of people that would have done the right thing - but..............
or would have said the right thing, but............
Mark could have - but the fact is - he didnt.
I hope he does well and does some good in the future - but he wont be interviewing for a job with my company anytime soon.
Just cant be trusted. IMO - Simple as that.
I have been listening to the entire Costas interview.
Costas did a spectacular job doing what he does best.
The issue I have with all the people who have come forward, whether voluntarily or otherwise, including the one today, is the "I only did it because of injury" or I was "breaking down" due to the rigors of a baseball season.
For those players who have been in Milb, who didn't use, and played injured, players in MLB who used PED's did it in a way that cheated every player who didn't.
Itsinthegame has a son who played an entire season with a UCL. Our son played an entire season with a labral tear.
Many, many others did the same.
When you compare my son and Its son with Big Mac, you won't confuse who is who.
It is so disingenious to argue the health and injury issue. It is not attractive when you know how hard and how much pain some players getting paid $1,100 per month endure to try and make it.
While it is a positive what happened today, the reason given is just an insult to every player who played injured, never complained, and got cheated.
Costas did a spectacular job doing what he does best.
The issue I have with all the people who have come forward, whether voluntarily or otherwise, including the one today, is the "I only did it because of injury" or I was "breaking down" due to the rigors of a baseball season.
For those players who have been in Milb, who didn't use, and played injured, players in MLB who used PED's did it in a way that cheated every player who didn't.
Itsinthegame has a son who played an entire season with a UCL. Our son played an entire season with a labral tear.
Many, many others did the same.
When you compare my son and Its son with Big Mac, you won't confuse who is who.
It is so disingenious to argue the health and injury issue. It is not attractive when you know how hard and how much pain some players getting paid $1,100 per month endure to try and make it.
While it is a positive what happened today, the reason given is just an insult to every player who played injured, never complained, and got cheated.
I do not think McGwire is some kind of ogre just because he fell for the temptation of steroids. He is by all reports a good father, loyal friend, helpful to young players, friends with his exwife and her husbandso that his son would not suffer. He was tempted by something that was widespread in all sports not just baseball. There were millions of dollars to be had and many more players than we know at least experimented with PED's. I think its time to just accept that this era did occur and we have to just move on. I think the Hall of Fame is a living history of our National Pastime and it should explain what occurred in each era with its greatest players. Soon we will have a Hall without the player with the most hits, homeruns, and possibly the most RBI's(maybe Ramirez). Put them in and tell the truth about how some of the numbers were achieved. I think the reason McGwire waited so long is that he was truly ashamed. Imagine having to let your son and wife know the truth.
I believe that someday a new crop of great players will shatter the steroid era records and maybe it will be some of our sons that do it. Athletes are just naturally getting bigger, stronger, faster with year round training and access to top nutritian, and so forth.
I believe that someday a new crop of great players will shatter the steroid era records and maybe it will be some of our sons that do it. Athletes are just naturally getting bigger, stronger, faster with year round training and access to top nutritian, and so forth.
infielddad,
You are so right about that.
IMO - No amount of money - or fame - should ever make someone give up the core values of honor and integrity.
Its a priviledge to play the game - and McGwire spit on it. And profited immensely to boot.
His excuses just dont cut it. And regardless of how finely he and his lawyers craft those excuses - they will never cut it. Not with me anyway.
And that is now his problem - and his cross to bear.
You are so right about that.
IMO - No amount of money - or fame - should ever make someone give up the core values of honor and integrity.
Its a priviledge to play the game - and McGwire spit on it. And profited immensely to boot.
His excuses just dont cut it. And regardless of how finely he and his lawyers craft those excuses - they will never cut it. Not with me anyway.
And that is now his problem - and his cross to bear.
I understand why players used steroids ... I also think there should be a life time ban on MLB players who use them . How many home run hitters on steroids changed the out come of the game ?
quote:Originally posted by njbb:
I understand why players used steroids ... I also think there should be a life time ban on MLB players who use them . How many home run hitters on steroids changed the out come of the game ?
You don know you have to have players to play a game... I thought I have seen somewhere that there have been more pitchers caught than hitters.
We were at a major coach's conference and a very well respected pitching guy clearly said, if you are not taking something you are falling behind. We all gasped, I guess he knew what he was saying.
It is interesting some of the former players and especially coaches talk about it and all say they had run a clean program but a lot of players come out of his programs are associated somehow with a program he was in control of.
I like what Kruk said about if all the elite players of this era were supposedly taking it than who's to say that players like Kruk wouldn't have been the elite players if everyone was clean.
quote:I'm glad McGwire has come clean. I suspect the timing has to do with the decline in his HOF vote last week. He had probably hoped that his % would rise steadily over time as this faded into memory. With that apparently not likely to happen, he's fessing up. I'm sure he hopes he can start having that % climb to where it might reach 75% before his eligibility expires. Honestly, I don't know if that will happen, but I think he perceives this as his only shot. And in that he is probably right.
Midlo that is exactly what I thought when I first heard this.
You know it's easy for us to say we would do the right thing if we were in Big Mac's shoes either as a player first approached with steroids or before Congress. I would hope and pray that I would do the right thing but let's face it - none of us have any idea the pressure these guys face. All that money, their reputations, people in their ears telling them "do it" or "don't talk about it". I'm not going to speak for anybody here but myself I have no idea what I would do. I was raised to do the right thing and if I did lie / cheat I believe my dad would come out of the grave and beat me but you never know.
Now that being said I just wish we could move on and look forward to the future of baseball. The new younger guys coming up and the new studs that are in the limelight right now. Talk and talk about what team made good moves, what team has a terrible front office for the moves they made and stuff like this. But we can't because every few months someone else pops up associated with steroids and everything that has been hashed out gets stirred up again.
This era happened, we can't erase it, we can't change it and we can't hide from it. We got to face it and accept it as it is and move on. Maybe things will get better when Selig steps down but who knows as long as that list is out there it's a ticking time bomb to reopen this wound. The worst part is I don't think there can be a name on there that would surprise any of us completely. Just move on.
I want to take a silver lining approach to the game now. The homerun isn't gone and never will be. The game is evolving or devolving (however you want to look at it) to a speed / strategy game. I think that is for the best. We may not turn over to ESPN and see as many moon shots but I think we are going to see more plays at the plate on throws from the outfield or plays at second and third in trying to stretch basehits. There is nothing more exciting than a triple by the way.
I remember about 15 years ago when Deion Sanders was with the Reds and he scored from first on a double to the gap. I can't remember who the catcher was but he got plowed. That play will stick with me for a lifetime because I saw it live although I've seen numerous homeruns live too.
Let's just move on.
Oh lets face some reality here.
In 1998 when McGwire and Sosa were chasing the home run record it was pretty darned obvious to all that both had to be doing something to increase their totals. It seemed like that the mid 90's created an explosion of long ball hitters and every team had a guy that hit 45+ a year until the door slammed in the early 2000s. I mean McGwire, Sosa and Bonds are the end result of such things but there were so many that pursued this way of improving.
And MLB let them do it. The 1998 home run race between McGwire and Sosa was credited for bringing people back to baseball. People cheered for both of them, they were so different in backgrounds but the two complemented each other so much. Both were part of the same division but the competition between the two was looked upon as the best of baseball. It only turned sour four years later.
McGwire coming clean really suprises no one. The list of players that didn't juice during that time is probably smaller than the list of those that did. It was a combination of money, fan pressure to perform and indifference from the leadership of baseball that contributed to this.
Baseball can vilify McGwire for what he did, and they have, just like they did Barry Bonds but it let these guys get away with it for years before finally reacting. The fake shock from MLB leadership frankly irritated me. Its like watching someone dump oil in the street only to react with disgust when someone else catches them doing it.
In 1998 when McGwire and Sosa were chasing the home run record it was pretty darned obvious to all that both had to be doing something to increase their totals. It seemed like that the mid 90's created an explosion of long ball hitters and every team had a guy that hit 45+ a year until the door slammed in the early 2000s. I mean McGwire, Sosa and Bonds are the end result of such things but there were so many that pursued this way of improving.
And MLB let them do it. The 1998 home run race between McGwire and Sosa was credited for bringing people back to baseball. People cheered for both of them, they were so different in backgrounds but the two complemented each other so much. Both were part of the same division but the competition between the two was looked upon as the best of baseball. It only turned sour four years later.
McGwire coming clean really suprises no one. The list of players that didn't juice during that time is probably smaller than the list of those that did. It was a combination of money, fan pressure to perform and indifference from the leadership of baseball that contributed to this.
Baseball can vilify McGwire for what he did, and they have, just like they did Barry Bonds but it let these guys get away with it for years before finally reacting. The fake shock from MLB leadership frankly irritated me. Its like watching someone dump oil in the street only to react with disgust when someone else catches them doing it.
quote:I understand why players used steroids ... I also think there should be a life time ban on MLB players who use them . How many home run hitters on steroids changed the out come of the game ?
this statement made me think for a minute (never a good thing). about Pete Roses lifetime ban.
which had a bigger impact on baseball, a coach betting on baseball or steroids? both were against the law, both against baseball rules. are they both worthy of a lifetime ban?
quote:Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era.
Why do public relations created apologies always have a caveat?
His excuse that the "era" was responsible for his shortcoming reminds me of politicians who say something stupid. They apologize to "anyone who may have been offended."
LOL..McGwire coming clean...Looks like this self-centered juicehead thinks this would actually get him in the HOF....No chance...The only way get gets into the hall is to pay the admission fee.
quote:which had a bigger impact on baseball, a coach betting on baseball or steroids? both were against the law, both against baseball rules. are they both worthy of a lifetime ban?
Since gambling is posted right on the clubhoue wall and always has been clear in baseball what the penalties are for gambling on baseball, The Rose ban is justified.
Banning from steroid use might be a bit cloudier since the chuckleheads who run the game allowed it to happen and there were no specific rules in place that specify what these players should or shouldn't be taking.
But in the end, they're still cheats....Don Mattingly would've had had a HOF career if he done roids. Which is why McGwire never gets in.
To those who know him personally, I'm sure McGwire is a nice guy, and he seems to have been a model player in dealing with the public while he played. I feel badly for his friends and family to have to watch this spectacle...but he created it.
His interview with Costas, and I watched it all, was an unmitigated disaster. He apparently has convinced himself that he didn't need the many years of drugs, that he now cannot remember by name, nor can he remember who introduced him to them. Funny that he just can't remember any details. Please...
If you say you can't remember, but you really can, it is called lying. That was the trigger of Nixon's downfall, he coached aides to say "I can't remember", when in fact they remembered very well.
Costas did a nice job, and boy do I love the MLB network, but McGwire scored very few points with me. There may be a reason he can't yet tell if this will amount to a "cleansing"-he hasn't come clean yet.
So do we let folks stonewall and deceive Congress, and the MLB investigators, wait till the Statute of Limitations expires, and then let them back into baseball as a coach? If I were the Commissioner, McGwire would get to wait 5 more years-the time it took him to speak up-before I let him back on to a field.
His interview with Costas, and I watched it all, was an unmitigated disaster. He apparently has convinced himself that he didn't need the many years of drugs, that he now cannot remember by name, nor can he remember who introduced him to them. Funny that he just can't remember any details. Please...
If you say you can't remember, but you really can, it is called lying. That was the trigger of Nixon's downfall, he coached aides to say "I can't remember", when in fact they remembered very well.
Costas did a nice job, and boy do I love the MLB network, but McGwire scored very few points with me. There may be a reason he can't yet tell if this will amount to a "cleansing"-he hasn't come clean yet.
So do we let folks stonewall and deceive Congress, and the MLB investigators, wait till the Statute of Limitations expires, and then let them back into baseball as a coach? If I were the Commissioner, McGwire would get to wait 5 more years-the time it took him to speak up-before I let him back on to a field.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
I have been listening to the entire Costas interview.
Costas did a spectacular job doing what he does best.
The issue I have with all the people who have come forward, whether voluntarily or otherwise, including the one today, is the "I only did it because of injury" or I was "breaking down" due to the rigors of a baseball season.
For those players who have been in Milb, who didn't use, and played injured, players in MLB who used PED's did it in a way that cheated every player who didn't.
Itsinthegame has a son who played an entire season with a UCL. Our son played an entire season with a labral tear.
Many, many others did the same.
When you compare my son and Its son with Big Mac, you won't confuse who is who.
It is so disingenious to argue the health and injury issue. It is not attractive when you know how hard and how much pain some players getting paid $1,100 per month endure to try and make it.
While it is a positive what happened today, the reason given is just an insult to every player who played injured, never complained, and got cheated.
As for McGwire, I agree that he was pretty much a one tool player whose tool was tainted. No HOF.
Let's all give a standing ovation for.........Roger Maris, the true single season homerun king.
Since I would be one of these people my problem has been with the mob mentality of ... "Since it looks this way, let's hang him and not worry about proof." This doesn't mean I haven't looked at certain players and wondered what they're up to. At that point the proof needs to be gathered not assumed.quote:We seem to have a group of people around here who are not willing to accept anything short of a confession as sufficient proof. Some even speak of eyewitness testimony as "hearsay", which is simply wrong. I don't understand this. Lots of wrongdoers never, ever admit what they did. We can't let their self-serving denials of what is evident blind us.
The problem McGwire and Bonds (and possibly ARod in the future) might have with the purists is they broke sport's two hallowed records on PEDs. They could be denied while a guy who only hit 500+ homers on PEDs might get in.quote:I'm sure he hopes he can start having that % climb to where it might reach 75% before his eligibility expires. Honestly, I don't know if that will happen, but I think he perceives this as his only shot. And in that he is probably right.
What's the all-time record for points scored in basketball? Yards rushing or yards passing in baseball? Goals scored in hockey? Don't look it up. But through baseball eternity the numbers 60, 61, 714 and 755 have been known and had significant meaning.
I hope you mean adult athletes. Kids grow.quote:If you see any athlete come back from a single offseason where he's gained 25, 30, or more pounds and its lean cut muscle, he is juicing.
I watched the interview several times. What I came away with is... Mark actually believes ped's had nothing to do with his power.
In his mind, roids did not play a factor. You can not watch that interview and not conclude that this is what he believes, a deep conviction.
Which leads to the other factor in roids, mental.
It not only changes you physically but mentally, and you seeing it demonstrated in Mark McGuire today.
In his mind, roids did not play a factor. You can not watch that interview and not conclude that this is what he believes, a deep conviction.
Which leads to the other factor in roids, mental.
It not only changes you physically but mentally, and you seeing it demonstrated in Mark McGuire today.
Could you please fly this banner over Washington DC.quote:IMO - No amount of money - or fame - should ever make someone give up the core values of honor and integrity.
quote:I think its time to just accept that this era did occur and we have to just move on. I think the Hall of Fame is a living history of our National Pastime and it should explain what occurred in each era with its greatest players. Soon we will have a Hall without the player with the most hits, homeruns, and possibly the most RBI's(maybe Ramirez). Put them in and tell the truth about how some of the numbers were achieved.
I agree. There's a character clause in admittance to the Hall of Fame. Otherwise, before we ban the steroid users how about if we toss out all the racists, alcoholics and adulters who did real harm to individuals? How about all the 1945-1990 era players who took greenies? What about Gaylord Perry being in The Hall. Everyone winked and chuckled about his spitball. It was cheating too.
What about hitting off pitchers on steroids?
But here's my big argument. The commissioner and owners knew what was going on with steroids and did nothing. The post strike home run era revitalized baseball and lined their pockets. They did nothing to take the steroid users off the field. The stats were performed on the field. Put them in The Hall.
"I used them, but...."
I wish somebody would just tell the whole truth and say I used, I was wrong, no excuses. I'm sorry.
"I could have hit 70 home runs without juice."
I wish somebody would just tell the whole truth and say I used, I was wrong, no excuses. I'm sorry.
"I could have hit 70 home runs without juice."
quote:Originally posted by showme:
I watched the interview several times. What I came away with is... Mark actually believes ped's had nothing to do with his power.
In his mind, roids did not play a factor. You can not watch that interview and not conclude that this is what he believes, a deep conviction.
Which leads to the other factor in roids, mental.
It not only changes you physically but mentally, and you seeing it demonstrated in Mark McGuire today.
McGuire's stats, including high school, college, MiLB.
McGuire's Stats High School to MLB
Pretty impressive high school and especially college stats. Hit 49 his rookie year. The boy could hit, and hit it far, with or without PEDs.
This is perhaps the most prominent pitching expert, guru, etc. out there. He is highly touted and promoted by many on this web site. He works with kids of all ages.
Where's the outrage???
Tom House May 2005
Admitted Using: Steroids (Non-specific)
The Story: In a telephone interview with San Fransisco Chronicle reporter, Ron Kroichick, House admitted to using steroids 'for a couple of seasons' during his career (1971-1978). House estimated that six or seven pitchers on every staff in baseball were experimenting with steroids in the 1970's. This was, and still is, the earliest account of steroid use in baseball. House's admission and comments are from a May 3, 2005 San Fransisco Chronicle article entitled House a 'failed experiment' with steroids.
Comments: "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey... We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."
Where's the outrage???
Tom House May 2005
Admitted Using: Steroids (Non-specific)
The Story: In a telephone interview with San Fransisco Chronicle reporter, Ron Kroichick, House admitted to using steroids 'for a couple of seasons' during his career (1971-1978). House estimated that six or seven pitchers on every staff in baseball were experimenting with steroids in the 1970's. This was, and still is, the earliest account of steroid use in baseball. House's admission and comments are from a May 3, 2005 San Fransisco Chronicle article entitled House a 'failed experiment' with steroids.
Comments: "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey... We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."
Mac should be banned from baseball. Certainly, no HOF. He should not be a coach in MLB.
He made a choice and cheated. Then he cheated again. Then he cheated again. Then again for 7 more years.
He made a choice to lie. He lied each year, again and again, for 10 years.
Pitchers lost their jobs because of his juiced hits. AAA players never made it because of this guy.
He has no integrity and is no role model for anyone in baseball.
Other than that, he's a great guy.
He made a choice and cheated. Then he cheated again. Then he cheated again. Then again for 7 more years.
He made a choice to lie. He lied each year, again and again, for 10 years.
Pitchers lost their jobs because of his juiced hits. AAA players never made it because of this guy.
He has no integrity and is no role model for anyone in baseball.
Other than that, he's a great guy.
quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:quote:Originally posted by showme:
I watched the interview several times. What I came away with is... Mark actually believes ped's had nothing to do with his power.
In his mind, roids did not play a factor. You can not watch that interview and not conclude that this is what he believes, a deep conviction.
Which leads to the other factor in roids, mental.
It not only changes you physically but mentally, and you seeing it demonstrated in Mark McGuire today.
McGuire's stats, including high school, college, MiLB.
McGuire's Stats High School to MLB
Pretty impressive high school and especially college stats. Hit 49 his rookie year. The boy could hit, and hit it far, with or without PEDs.
Yes he hit HR before roids...he hit more per AB after taking roids... and that's the problem.
better power with age ok...but it wasn't just that, it was better power with age and roids.
No doubt he hit... pick a number... more HR's because of roids.
What's scary is this reality hasn't visited him yet.
Who here thinks Mac hit 49 homers as a rookie without steroids?
Why should I believe him?
Why should I believe him?
He continues to lie. Have you read the entire interview or heard the entire interview? He goes on to state that he never took steroids to enhance his performance. He doesnt believe they enhanced his performance. He says he only took them to heal from his injuries.
He admits to taking them on and off for a decade. So that means he probably took them steadily for over a decade. He comes out now because its in his best interest to come out now. He comes clean because he feels its in his best interest to come clean. He says they didnt enhance his performance because he knows its in his best interest to say that. Everything he has done and is doing now speaks to the true character of this man.
He goes on to say he wished they would have had testing because if they did he wouldnt be having this conversation right now. So in other words he didnt have the character to do what was right he needed someone to test him , force him to do what was right. He later went on to say he wished he had not played in the steroid era. Really Mark? So its the steroid era's fault? Not yours? Not your decision but others? Hey I am sorry I used cocaine , but everyone else was doing it. I am so glad drinking and driving is against the law because if not I would be doing it. I am so glad they test for drugs at my work place because that keeps me clean. Seriously there is a character flaw here. And its a total lack of character.
Mark McGwires legacy? It was all a lie. Everything he did in the game was a lie. It was fake. It was never true. He never existed in my book. And until these guys realize that will be their legacy if they do what Mark did they will continue to cheat. And then they will wait for the fans to forgive them and laugh all the way to the bank. So go ahead and wear your Mark McGwire jersey and feel sorry for him. I just will call it like I see it. Cheater!
Mark's game was power. His name was built on hitting the long ball. He got paid big time bucks for doing just that. Anyone who doesnt believe that putting that kind of lean muscle mass on the body of an already gifted player does not increase their ability to hit "more" balls out of the park is kidding themselves.
When your son is cut , released , out of the game because someone didnt get cut , released because they beat your son out. And you find out that player was using ped's what will be your posistion on ped's then?
"I did not take this for any strength purposes at all."
Would you have hit 70 hr's without the use of performance enhancing drugs?
"Absolutely."
Yeah he came clean. LMAO
He admits to taking them on and off for a decade. So that means he probably took them steadily for over a decade. He comes out now because its in his best interest to come out now. He comes clean because he feels its in his best interest to come clean. He says they didnt enhance his performance because he knows its in his best interest to say that. Everything he has done and is doing now speaks to the true character of this man.
He goes on to say he wished they would have had testing because if they did he wouldnt be having this conversation right now. So in other words he didnt have the character to do what was right he needed someone to test him , force him to do what was right. He later went on to say he wished he had not played in the steroid era. Really Mark? So its the steroid era's fault? Not yours? Not your decision but others? Hey I am sorry I used cocaine , but everyone else was doing it. I am so glad drinking and driving is against the law because if not I would be doing it. I am so glad they test for drugs at my work place because that keeps me clean. Seriously there is a character flaw here. And its a total lack of character.
Mark McGwires legacy? It was all a lie. Everything he did in the game was a lie. It was fake. It was never true. He never existed in my book. And until these guys realize that will be their legacy if they do what Mark did they will continue to cheat. And then they will wait for the fans to forgive them and laugh all the way to the bank. So go ahead and wear your Mark McGwire jersey and feel sorry for him. I just will call it like I see it. Cheater!
Mark's game was power. His name was built on hitting the long ball. He got paid big time bucks for doing just that. Anyone who doesnt believe that putting that kind of lean muscle mass on the body of an already gifted player does not increase their ability to hit "more" balls out of the park is kidding themselves.
When your son is cut , released , out of the game because someone didnt get cut , released because they beat your son out. And you find out that player was using ped's what will be your posistion on ped's then?
"I did not take this for any strength purposes at all."
Would you have hit 70 hr's without the use of performance enhancing drugs?
"Absolutely."
Yeah he came clean. LMAO
quote from RJM
"through baseball eternity the numbers 60, 61, 714 and 755"
Amen.
"through baseball eternity the numbers 60, 61, 714 and 755"
Amen.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
He continues to lie. Have you read the entire interview or heard the entire interview? He goes on to state that he never took steroids to enhance his performance. He doesnt believe they enhanced his performance. He says he only took them to heal from his injuries.
He admits to taking them on and off for a decade. So that means he probably took them steadily for over a decade. He comes out now because its in his best interest to come out now. He comes clean because he feels its in his best interest to come clean. He says they didnt enhance his performance because he knows its in his best interest to say that. Everything he has done and is doing now speaks to the true character of this man.
He goes on to say he wished they would have had testing because if they did he wouldnt be having this conversation right now. So in other words he didnt have the character to do what was right he needed someone to test him , force him to do what was right. He later went on to say he wished he had not played in the steroid era. Really Mark? So its the steroid era's fault? Not yours? Not your decision but others? Hey I am sorry I used cocaine , but everyone else was doing it. I am so glad drinking and driving is against the law because if not I would be doing it. I am so glad they test for drugs at my work place because that keeps me clean. Seriously there is a character flaw here. And its a total lack of character.
Mark McGwires legacy? It was all a lie. Everything he did in the game was a lie. It was fake. It was never true. He never existed in my book. And until these guys realize that will be their legacy if they do what Mark did they will continue to cheat. And then they will wait for the fans to forgive them and laugh all the way to the bank. So go ahead and wear your Mark McGwire jersey and feel sorry for him. I just will call it like I see it. Cheater!
Mark's game was power. His name was built on hitting the long ball. He got paid big time bucks for doing just that. Anyone who doesnt believe that putting that kind of lean muscle mass on the body of an already gifted player does not increase their ability to hit "more" balls out of the park is kidding themselves.
When your son is cut , released , out of the game because someone didnt get cut , released because they beat your son out. And you find out that player was using ped's what will be your posistion on ped's then?
"I did not take this for any strength purposes at all."
Would you have hit 70 hr's without the use of performance enhancing drugs?
"Absolutely."
Yeah he came clean. LMAO
+100
But I really think he believes they had no effect.
Muscle mass of the brain so to speak.
Question-
If my son is throwing 90-91 without PED's, and a teammate is throwing 95-96 with PED's, and this is known by the MLB owners, which player do you think they would take if they could only take one?
If my son is throwing 90-91 without PED's, and a teammate is throwing 95-96 with PED's, and this is known by the MLB owners, which player do you think they would take if they could only take one?
As I look up at all of you on those high horses, once again I ask
"Where's the outrage???!!!"
"Where's the outrage???!!!"
quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
This is perhaps the most prominent pitching expert, guru, etc. out there. He is highly touted and promoted by many on this web site. He works with kids of all ages.
Where's the outrage???
Tom House May 2005
Admitted Using: Steroids (Non-specific)
The Story: In a telephone interview with San Fransisco Chronicle reporter, Ron Kroichick, House admitted to using steroids 'for a couple of seasons' during his career (1971-1978). House estimated that six or seven pitchers on every staff in baseball were experimenting with steroids in the 1970's. This was, and still is, the earliest account of steroid use in baseball. House's admission and comments are from a May 3, 2005 San Fransisco Chronicle article entitled House a 'failed experiment' with steroids.
Comments: "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey... We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."
quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
As I look up at all of you on those high horses, once again I ask
"Where's the outrage???!!!"quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
This is perhaps the most prominent pitching expert, guru, etc. out there. He is highly touted and promoted by many on this web site. He works with kids of all ages.
Where's the outrage???
Tom House May 2005
Admitted Using: Steroids (Non-specific)
The Story: In a telephone interview with San Fransisco Chronicle reporter, Ron Kroichick, House admitted to using steroids 'for a couple of seasons' during his career (1971-1978). House estimated that six or seven pitchers on every staff in baseball were experimenting with steroids in the 1970's. This was, and still is, the earliest account of steroid use in baseball. House's admission and comments are from a May 3, 2005 San Fransisco Chronicle article entitled House a 'failed experiment' with steroids.
Comments: "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey... We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."
I guess you'll see it when he holds the MLB single season strike out leader total, or total MLB win leader.
Where's the outrage with the commissioner's office and team ownership for turning a blind eye to an obvious situation? After the strike fans dug the long ball and management played alongquote:"Where's the outrage???!!!"
Whether it's a balk move to first, stealing signs, or taking PEDs when have a number of ball players not taken the advantage when it's been given? Players in the 90's and early 00's knew no one was going to do anything about PEDs. So they took advantage. The only thing the players can be blamed for is lying after the fact. Most of the blame for the era should be placed on management. Bud Selig and the owners of this era are the ones who should never be admitted to the Hall of Fame.