bloodlines

In a word...YES!

Yeah if you have some talent, but your bloodlines are that of a famous athlete, you are almost a shoo in.

PAmom,

And it is so well justified. After all the Babe's dad was an athlete. Errr, guess not. But his mom... Nope. Yeah but Gerhrig's dad was a pro ballplayer. Well, no he wasn't. Ummm. Sandy Koufax's dad was a MLB pitcher. No, guess not. A good LL pitcher? No, not even that either.

Hmmm..........

Texan,

No one said you had to be from successful parents to be successful, but you are in a dream world if you don't think scouts look at genetics when evaluating players.

Kind of like the "short vs tall" syndrome.

But, I like your thinking. One day maybe they will say, "but Josh's dad, no....".

Never said they don't look at it. Just amazes me at how flawed the approach is.

Without a doubt, it opens doors.

Sometimes, I think all you have to do is put yourself into the scouts shoes to answer these type of questions. If someone told you that was Willie Mays' grandkid over there warming up, I am guessing the natural human emotion would be to give that particular kid a look that otherwise might not be there. Baseball has a tradition with many blood lines i.e.; boone, bell, bonds, griffey, mathews,....

There are many things that will get onto the baseball field (including bloodlines)....but..... those are not the things that KEEP you on the field.
Fungo

Upton, Martinez, Drabek, Clemens, Williams, Murton, Lemon, Davis, Gibson, Alou, Rose, Yount, etc., etc., etc. It’s a very long list!

While there is no guarantee that everyone in the family will be a good baseball player, it is amazing how often they are. Bloodlines will not get a young man drafted, but there is good reason for all the interest. A scout would be foolish to ignore it.

Be it Grey hounds, horses or humans, blood lines need to be considered at least a little bit. There is an advantage, but not so big an advantage that it eliminates those that don’t have professional baseball blood lines.

There will always be more star players who don’t have dads or brothers who played professional baseball. After all, almost everyone did not play professional baseball, let alone play in the big leagues.

PG,

Did Ripken's father Cal Sr. make it to the big leagues? I am guessing any of Cal Jr.'s boys will be given every opportunity to make it in baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by PAmom:
In a word...YES!

Actually, I resent this type of comment very much. It insinuates that I would turn in a kid just because his Dad used to be a player. The son of an ex-big leaguer can get compared at age 17 to what his Dad was like in his prime, and that is very tough on the kid. If a kid has talent, I turn him in, if he does not have talent, I don't turn him in and it does not matter who his Dad is.

I don't think PaMom was referring to you BBScout

but bloodlines must run deep at times - - who do ya suppose turned in Carey Schuler?

REF" "Carey Schueler was selected by the Chicago White Sox in the 43rd round in 1994. It must have been a proud day for White Sox GM Ron Schueler to select his daughter before some other team grabbed her."

bbscout,
I tend to agree with PG on this one. I think it makes sense to take a bit longer look at the players with good "bloodlines". Obviously there has to be some talent there. Delmon Young was going where he did in the draft regardless of who his brother was and a player who clearly doesn't have talent isn't going to get drafted no matter who their parents are. Some talented players might get a bit longer look especially if their parent was a late bloomer. If Clemens' kid was a pitcher and throwing in the mid-80s he might be worth a draft and follow just because his father was a bit of a late bloomer, although I believe Roger was on the radar well before his college career.

On the other hand, people need to realize that a scout's living is based on making the right calls on as many players as possible and that turning in players who don't have ability just because they are someone's relative would mean that a scout wasn't doing his job to the best of his ability and would probably lead to him losing that job.

Another aspect to consider is that some of these players with MLB parents or brothers have been exposed to the baseball lifestyle and may be a bit more likely to persevere through the minor league experience than some others with equal talent.

bbscout---

Sorry. I was abrupt because I was thinking of a very specific situation locally in which I KNOW that a young man got an opportunity in pro ball ONLY because his Dad is a former Major Leaguer. The player had no D-I offers out of high school, a catcher with no bat. He was a backup his entire D-II career. He batted 9th on my son's summer team. He was neither scouted nor drafted. But he signed a free agent contract with the organization his father played for and still works for. In this case, no question about "favors" in anyone's mind who has seen him play (including his coaches).

I didn't mean to imply that scouts would recommend a prospect simply because of who DAD is, but sometimes (and this is just one instance), you have to admit, the opportunity for a shot occurs simply for that reason. No scout turned in this young man's name...but DAD just pulled some strings with the front office.

Piazza and then Piazza again. One worked, one didn't.

From the writings on our family cave wall Grandpa Ug-Ug had a great arm and killed more rabbits with a stone than any other cave-jock in the village. How far back on the tree can you go?

And they say my family tree has no limbs!

I think the question has just as much to do about the mental aspect. If dad, mom, or uncle joe had athletic experiences it may be a good bet that Junior understands better what it takes to go to the next level. The physical genetic carryover is a crapshoot at best.

There is no doubt that if a player has a good "Bloodline" he will get at least a look where maybe another kid with the same tools might not. But I agree with Fungo it will not keep them looking if the talent is not there. No one is going to care what kind of "Bloodline" you have if you can flat out play. Do you think they are going to say "He can flat out play but his parents never played sports so there is no need to keep looking at this kid". I played football in college and both in HS. I was a good hitter but an average HS player in baseball. Both my kids are much better at sports than I ever was. I would never admit that to them at least not right now. I have two uncles that were minor league players back in the 50's. Does that mean anything as far as my kids are concerned? I dont think so. I see PG's point and it is well taken. I am right there with Fungo on this one.

PAMom - Know of very similar story this year. 40 something round, dad is a current coach with a club and was a player. The player is fast, but no bat, no glove (OF), no arm , and no college offers.

Quote..On the other hand, people need to realize that a scout's living is based on making the right calls on as many players as possible and that turning in players who don't have ability just because they are someone's relative would mean that a scout wasn't doing his job to the best of his ability and would probably lead to him losing that job.
------------------------------------------------
Exactly, and many have lost their jobs for doing just that.

Yes, but it is nurture not nature. The quality of the instruction; what it takes to play, how to train, yada, yada, yada. Having a parent that has played in the past means you have your own full-time baseball trainer.

can you say Pete Rose Jr.

I think it gets you a look, no doubt.

The Mariners drafted Hargrove's kid somewhere in the cellar draft round.

I heard Fernando Venezuala Jr is a masher.

so who turns in or picks the GM'S kid, a minor league hitting intructors nephew, an x-managers son, an x-minor league pitcher's son, the grounds keeper's cousin? - -
since the advent of internet broadcast, teams seem to proudly announce the most ridiculous "bloodline" connection credentials - - - some not even starters on their college team

doubt if those guys lost their jobs tho -

was up?

Well it looks like I'm going to have to fake up some HOF credentials for myself so that my son can have a shot at getting drafted someday, that or buy a ML team.

What are the requirements for a BP pitcher to enter the hall?

i think ill start putting down my son drew's kin on everything ( my side Loe and Hancock his mom's side Langston and House)he should be a can't miss ha ha. i know talent is what keeps you there. thanks for the replies this is the best place on the net for baseball and some of the best people to ask questions of. dloe.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
so who turns in or picks the GM'S kid, a minor league hitting intructors nephew, an x-managers son, an x-minor league pitcher's son, the grounds keeper's cousin? - -
since the advent of internet broadcast, teams seem to proudly announce the most ridiculous "bloodline" connection credentials - - - some not even starters on their college team

doubt if those guys lost their jobs tho -

was up?

The white sox scouting director who picked the GM's daughter lost his job. Clemens kid is hitting .354 in the Appy League. The way you are going at this, I feel that you don't think any of the Son's of pro ball people can play. Is that true? You may not know this, but a lot of guys lose jobs every year for foolish stunts.

quote:

Originally posted by AKBaseball20:
I heard Fernando Venezuala Jr is a masher.

Fernando's son is hitting over .300 in the Cal League, and was the best hitter at UNLV when he was in College.

quote:

Originally posted by baseballtoday:
can you say Pete Rose Jr.

I think it gets you a look, no doubt.

The Mariners drafted Hargrove's kid somewhere in the cellar draft round.

Jr. has played 14 years of pro ball, and has done pretty well at the minor league level, but does not quite have the ability to hit in the big leagues.

I agreed with PA mom, there are bloodlines in every sport, which I took into consideration when I agreed with her.
I think it is different in baseball though. It's not so much a bloodline but a way of life. Lots of these kids hung around the dugout and ballparks all of their lives watching Dad, they know what the life is like. They developed a passion for the game and had a respect for it as well. Throw that in with a bit of talent or lots of talent and he will be drafted or off to college. Many many kids follow in their father's footsteps, not just in baseball. Look at Shula and Bowden. Are their sons coaches because of bloodlines? Did their sons have more opportunities because of who their dads were, I am sure they did.
Bryan Harvey's son Kris (second rounder) just got drafted by his dad's former organization. Mark Fidrych's DISTANT relative plays at Clemson, they announce that all the time and mentioned in press releases. DISTANT relative mind you, but they want everyone to know his bloodline.
You can't tell me that these boys got drafted in good positions on pure talent alone. I am not saying these boys are NOT talented, they ARE.
What I mean is, if there was a choice between two players, the one whose dad played MLB will get the nod, most probably because they know more than the average draftee about how tough it is.

quote:

BEE - The white sox scouting director who picked the GM's daughter lost his job. Clemens kid is hitting .354 in the Appy League. The way you are going at this, I feel that you don't think any of the Son's of pro ball people can play. Is that true? You may not know this, but a lot of guys lose jobs every year for foolish stunts.

BBscout, "enter then no spin zone"

Schuler stepped down after the '99 season . . . so, you are saying the SOX owners thought about his stunt for 6 yrs - then made a move??

and I don't know/ didn't say anything about Clemens and actually didn't name a player . . . I'm pretty sure it left my keyboard here OK . . ?

my point was that in the last 3 or 4 yrs that I followed the mlb draft I thought it a bit strange that teams often proclaimed (loudly) the "bloodline" on a pick with that as his only apparent tool

Bee, Schuler was the GM, not the Scouting Director.I am sure that you must know the difference??????

As far as the boodline being the only tool, did you scout all the players who were drafted????

Clemens son was mentioned for Caldad, not you, but I am glad you noticed.

TPM, I doubt very much if Kris Harvey was drafted because he knows how tough it was. He was 11 years old when his Dad retired, and his Dad made over 18 Million dollars playing the game, so I doubt if young Kris Harvey had to learn much about tough times more than the average draftee.

BBScout,
Harvey had an interview before he was drafted. In the interview he said as a youngster he spent lots of time at the field with his dad. Of course to a little boy, they don't realize , but in retrospect, I would think as they reflect on those memories as a young man they realize that it's a tough life, dad on the road, away from home, etc.

But I was not referring to that in my agreement with PAmom. Bloodline does play into the equation. And I am sure most of us do know that you would never draft anyone if you felt he was not deserving.

bbscout---

With all due respect, and I have always had the utmost respect for you and love your posts, you are part of the system and you have to admit that blood SOMETIMES runs thicker than talent. I shouldn't bring up the deceased, but what about Ted Williams' son?? You've GOT to be kidding me!!

In the interest of accuracy, we are talking about two different things. The advantages of having MLB or athletic bloodlines and a professional scouts evaluation of that player. Also remember that most all sons of former MLB players do not play MLB professional baseball. In fact, many very athletic parents never played professional baseball. So the bloodlines are there, but they don’t show up as former players.

I doubt any scout turned in John Henry Williams. He was about 30 or so years old when he was signed as a free agent. It was more a promotional thing that went beyond any scouts opinion. John Henry was never drafted!

Bloodlines can be helpful in creating interest. There are just too many examples of this to ignore. However, the best examples are based on talent before genetics. Let’s face it there are an abnormal number of outstanding players who had outstanding athletes for parents. Not necessarily former baseball players. JJ Hardy who plays shortstop for the Brewers has one parent who was a former Golf Pro and the other who was a former tennis pro.

The best thing is, if a player is good enough, no one cares what his relatives athletic background was.

Blood might run thicker than talent in a few cases involving ownership and executives, but not to any legitimate MLB scout.

IMO, most everyone posting here has some good points. Bottom line… Talent will always come first to all good scouts. Then “EVERYTHING” else will be considered. There are many sons of hall of famers who never played professional baseball.

Careful here. I mentioned a son of Clemens' only hypothetically. I wasn't referring to Koby. I said that if Clemens had a son throwing mid 80s they might want to follow him considering his dad was a little bit of a late bloomer.

BB Scout;
You and I have history of selecting players for the Area Code games [1987-2004] and the Goodwill Series [1983-2005].

With over 300 players in the Major Leagues, we can track the sons of the former ML players.
Derrek Lee, Sean Burroughs, Adam LaRoche,
are only three who "stand out" while many sons of fathers played in the AC games and Goodwill Series events, only the three players are now playing and Sean is in Triple A for the Padres.

The pro scouts have selected players for our American Team against Japan National HS Team, since 1983 and 40% [110] have made it to the Major Leagues. In 2006, we will again play Japan in a "home" and "away" World Cup and I will again depend on your "eyes".
Thank you BB Scout!

Bob Williams
Goodwill Series Inc.
PS: Our "Rookies" are returning home today from China and this team of 15-16 year old American players won the International Tournament. This was our 14th trip to the Friendship Series. Next stop is Australia in December.

Not sure how many of these MLB players with MLB fathers have been mentioned already in this thread. But here’s a few more with “those” bloodlines.

Alomar
Alou
Armas
Bell
Boone
Bonds
Burroughs
Cruz
Grieve
Griffey
Hairston
Hundley
Kendall
LaRoche
Matthews
Nen
Segui
Spiezio
Wilson