Bob Gibson - greatest ever?

Yes

I loved his intensity and tenacity. I'll bet he didn't even like his own team's hitters. The guy pitched locked into a mental zone.

...and the man was not afraid to throw a bean ball...he would not have tolerated fist pumping,jumping up and down after going deep or any other celebrations by the other team when he was on the mound. He was a respected warrior...

I don't know if he was the greatest pitcher of all time, but I can believe he was one of the most feared...

Gibson is famous for one of my favorite baseball quotes...

His catcher, Tim McCarver, strolls to the mound between hitters and Gibson says...

"What are you doing here?"

McCarver "I came to talk about the pitching"

Gibson "The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it."

Another quote I love was either from McCarver or Mike Shannon.

"Bob Gibson was the luckiest pitcher ever! On the days he pitched, the other team wasn't hitting!"

Not sure if he was the greatest ever? But, if I had to win one game, he would be my choice!

I grew up in St Louis and saw him pitch so I might be a little slanted..but he gets my vote

The 'Big Train' wasn't bad either...

I have had the good fortune of seeing Gibson as well as Seaver thru their careers---I take either one as the best--and that is splitting hairs

Sandy Koufax.

I was in school the day of the 17 strikeouts but I did get to listen on the radio in class. Strange now to think teachers would let you do that in those days. And they were nuns! Earlier that same year on a Saturday afternoon I saw Denny McClain win his 30th game. Still remember Al Kaline scored I think the lead or tying run late. In his first full year Reggie Jackson hit 2 HRs to cause the need for the late rally. Don't think we'll ever see 30 wins in a season again. What was also neat was that the last previous 30 game winner Dizzy Dean who won 30 in 1934 was in the broadcast booth as a special guest. Its now been 41 years since that game when it had only been 34 years between the two great 30 win seasons.
Think I would have to go with Walter Johnson as the greatest pitcher but for one game you couldn't go wrong with Bob Gibson.

quote:

Originally posted by Three Bagger:
I was in school the day of the 17 strikeouts but I did get to listen on the radio in class. Strange now to think teachers would let you do that in those days. And they were nuns!

Ya' know, a lot of the sisters are big baseball fans. Back in the day, I remember seeing nuns at DC Stadium, but never this many!






About Bob Gibson...



he did retire with a 4.24 ERA.

quote:

I saw Denny McClain win his 30th game

years ago in jupiter i met his roomate, terry fox. we talked for awhile during a rain delay. he said it was a common occurance for thugs to be waiting in the hotel room to collect money from mclain. if he didn't have any ,they'd break a toe.(i guess that was not as obvious as a leg. ) that makes it tough to pitch, i don't care who you are.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:

quote:

I saw Denny McClain win his 30th game

years ago in jupiter i met his roomate, terry fox. we talked for awhile during a rain delay. he said it was a common occurance for thugs to be waiting in the hotel room to collect money from mclain. if he didn't have any ,they'd break a toe.(i guess that was not as obvious as a leg. ) that makes it tough to pitch, i don't care who you are.

...And Mclain vehemently denied this...

...but, I don't know, it could be...he ultimately did go to prison for theft and fraud from an employees retirement fund in a business he owned. That alone didn't mean he had his toe broke from the mob, but he did hang out with them...play with the devil and...

At a certain point of greatness, it is like arguing which flavor of ice cream is better. Gibson indeed is one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived.

I believe Bob Feller was the greatest because he started in the big leagues when he was still an 11th grader in high school. He also gave up four of the prime years of his career to WWII.

Feller was probably one of the few Major League prodigies( incredible ability at a very early age) since he struck out 15 in one of his first major league starts and then tied the then Major League record with 17 K's at age 17. He broke the record two years later with 18 K's against the Tigers.

The story about gamblers or gangsters breaking McClains toes over gambling debts is supposed to have occurred in 1967 and may have cost Detroit the pennant as they lost on the final day of the season. Considering the later antics of McClain, the story rings true.

Bob Gibson was my favorite pitcher when I was a kid, and along with Lou Brock, Orlando Cepeda, Curt Flood, Mike Shannon, Dal Maxvill, Julian Javier, Tim McCarver and Roger Maris, he's why I remain a big Cardinals fan to this day. Maybe a few pitchers were better, but nobody was tougher on the mound. I also can remember being in elementary school during the '67 and '68 World Series games and rushing home to catch what I could of them.

Somebody said Koufax a few posts back, and if you look at the ridiculous numbers from '62 to '65 (I think), it's hard to argue. He was basically unhittable for that period. The number of complete games these guys pitched were remarkable compared to today.

The last 20 years: I'd take Maddux.

quote:

"Bob Gibson was the luckiest pitcher ever! On the days he pitched, the other team wasn't hitting!"

I don't know if he was the best ever. It is a nice conversation though. He is my favorite. I am sure I would have loved Walter "Freight Train" Johnson. I think the 67 - 68 years were 2 of the best in MLB history. Only because I was 10 back then

For the last 20 years.... Randy Johnson, even though I am biased, I don't see how anyone could have been better, including Maddox.

Whitey Ford

Best Winning PerCentage (236 - 106) .690
Lifetime ERA 2.75
World Series Championships 6

Top Ten Pitchers...All Time

HoF Walter Johnson
Ret Roger Clemens
HoF Grover Cleveland Alexander
Act Randy Johnson
Act Greg Maddux
HoF Tom Seaver
HoF Warren Spahn
Act Pedro Martinez
HoF Christy Mathewson
HoF Steve Carlton

All shared being both dominant and durable during their careers.

HoF = Hall of Fame
Act = Active
Ret = Retired

Bear

You do not include Gibson among the Top 10?

And why Seaver twice ?

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Why Seaver twice? Wasn't he a spokesman for this?






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Gibson the greatest ever? No. In the top ten? Maybe.

Gibson is worthy of the HOF, but hardly the best ever. Without comparing Gibson to pitchers none of us have ever seen, he sure doesn't measure up to Maddux. Maddux had a better prime(equal to Koufax's), a more prolific body of work(especially when comparing his stats to league averages), fielded his position better than any pitcher who ever lived and was responsible for improving the craft of pitching itself. A true litmus test for greatness.

Gibson had the record setting year but his career falls well short of being the 'best ever'.

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"...fielded his position better than any pitcher who ever lived..."

Gotta love that!




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Bear,

Gibson not in the top ten...you must have been driving around with Lincecum recently

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That may be true, but Bear had enough sense to roll the window down.




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While this won't settle anything, it's an interesting read:

http://baseball.suite101.com/a...gue_pitching_records

I suppose no one will vote for Aloysius Travers because of that one game where he threw a 26 hitter and gave up 24 runs.

I was gonna vote for Andy Hawkins who pitched a no-hitter but lost 4 - 0.

PGSTAFF, Aloysius Travers at least got to live a dream we probably all have of literally being picked up off the street to face the World champions for one game. In 1912 Cobb was suspended and in a rare show of support the Tigers walked out for one game. The Tigers facing possible loss of the franchise signed up players off the street including Travers who later in life became a Catholic priest. Bet he was doing some praying that day as the A's slaughtered the Tigers 24-2.

Quite truthfully, to me in the late sixties, following baseball as a teenager, there was never really the sense of Gibson necessarily being even the best pitcher of his own time. There were numerous ERA's in the one's and very low two's. Active pitchers of that era included Marichal, Kofax-middle 60's, McClain, McNally, Cuellar, McDowell, Chance, Lonborg, Tiant, Seaver, Palmer, both Perry's and other all time greats. Every one of those guys had season's that we would look at in awe nowadays.

quote:

Originally posted by Three Bagger:
Quite truthfully, to me in the late sixties, following baseball as a teenager, there was never really the sense of Gibson necessarily being even the best pitcher of his own time. There were numerous ERA's in the one's and very low two's. Active pitchers of that era included Marichal, Kofax-middle 60's, McClain, McNally, Cuellar, McDowell, Chance, Lonborg, Tiant, Seaver, Palmer, both Perry's and other all time greats. Every one of those guys had season's that we would look at in awe nowadays.

I'll go with Gibson as "the most feared pitcher", and leave the best ever open for discussion!


From the same era, but rarely mentioned as one of the best ever,this HOF pitcher had 7 20-win seasons, including 6 in a row and 3000 career strikeouts.
First Canadian in the Baseball HOF!

You're right, we forgot Fergie Jenkins!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Bear

Inadvertant E-6 and 'fixed'
A with arguable one of three top all time LHP. (Lefty Grove, and a Maryland phenom, missed making the list.)

Gibson's 1968 season was indeed phenomenal. (And I am a huge St. Louis fan). One way to compare a pitcher's greatness is against his contemporaries. Gibson's minuscule 1968 1.12 ERA was the lowest in history among pitchers with at least 150 innings in a season. But 1968 was a pitcher's year--the NL average ERA of 2.83 stands as the lowest since 1919.

Yet there is one guy who played on another level in 2000. Pedro Martinez put together a 2000 season with a 1.74 ERA during the hitter-friendly 4.75 AL average.

With much respect for Rizzi, I will politely let go the other cheap bs.
Yet please stay around, contribute something baseball related, and you may pick something up.

Bear


I have always learned from you


You are my HERO

A couple of pretty dominant Pitchers in their day who I bet any Manager would want on his World Series roster today:

Denton True Young -- his teammtes called him "Cy"

George Herman Ruth -- a pretty good hitting Pitcher

"The rest of the story"

During my early days in the South Dakota Basin League, I had the opportunity to hit off of Bob Gibson. The ball looked like an aspirin tablet.

Fortunately, I swing the bat out and the ball hit the bat and went over the fence [opposite field].Several years later, I visited the Cardinal bullpen to meet Bob Gibson. He looked at me like I was a wall, there was no expression.

Later, I asked Ron Perranoski Dodgers pitching and my teammate in South Dakota about Gibson. Ron said "he doesn't talk to me either".

Sandy Koufax when he pitched against the Giants, the Giants he tipped his pitches and the Giants still could not hit him.

These are two great pitchers.

Bob Williams

Yet when talk is of po-dunk league, somewhere, South Dakota, Class D ball, comes to mind!

I shall not travel down that memory lane and bore these bloggers.

Yet it appears the criteria each of a few naysayers are trying to define just may be the following:

....7th game of a World Series, who do you put on the mound?

Yep, Gibson is there, so is Koufax, WJ too, yes Whitey, and Cy, & Christy. Let coming in with that list of ten be an opportunity and a challege for you.

I still remember the look on Dick Bosman's face, (and when he just got his ML pitching coaches position) when I gave him Tom Seaver's hard back book on Pitching. Gotta christmas card that year.