Bobbleheaddoll Thrower

Hey, I wish your son nothing but the best. You should post an updated clip of him down the road. It might be an interesting before and after to see what kind of progress he's making.

Take care!

Jason

Good idea if I ever get to see him again. Maybe in the summer.

I hope your son continues to grow and get stronger. I have watched this clip many times and I would like to offer you some free advice. It looks as if your son may have been over-gurued. The angle of this clip makes it hard to tell exactly, but when his right knee pumps up it could pump back more over the rubber, while closing the lead shoulder more as well. This can help create more power. Also the knee is pumping up, then going straight down, then going out toward the plate. The knee is meant to pump back, closing off your lead hip, and leading toward the plate with your back pocket. This windup appears to have the power of a slide step. Your sons arm works well, and I bet you know that theres more juice in that delivery. If he throws 84 while not using his bodys leverage to its full potential then WOW, thats gas. Anytime you get lessons for someone the intructor has a vested intrest to make a change. If you show up and there is nothing wrong with your sons delivery, and no need to make any changes, are you going to continue to pay for his services?....thats where the vested intrest comes in....good luck with the upcoming season.

Dee thanks for the advice. Your comments are similar to BBscouts before he removed his posts. That is a point that I have mentioned to him.
His college coach has made some minor changes but I am not clear on what he has done. I tend to be hands off at this level.
He has only had 4 sessions at 15 with a private paid pitching coach. All thye other coaches have been part of his teams program.
He needs a lot of physical development to sqeeze some more MPH out.

Sometimes velocity developes late in pitchers, and hopefully his teams pitching coaches are making the most of his ability. Take care.

quote:

Originally posted by DeeMack:
Sometimes velocity developes late in pitchers

I agree that "sometimes" velocity develops late in pitchers. But I also believe that "many" times it does not.

You don't throw hard throwing soft.

Jason

Flip I have seen several pitchers gain 5-6 + MPH over 4 years of college. I am leaving it to him and his coaches to get it out of him. I mentioned the comments and he is going to try a couple. I thought some tweaking might help.
He has no meat on his arms or legs and I feel 20lbs of muscle can't hurt.
If he can hit 83-84 I am sure he can get 88-89 by the end of college.

You can throw hard throwing effortlessly though peace

Shep

Question:

Do you actually throw 90+ mph "effortlessly", or do you appear to throw 90+ mph effortlessly?

Cap_n

Now that's a good question, sir. I appreciate you giving me a chance to clarify.

A 90s plus pitcher may appear to throw effortlessly but is just a optical illusion because body is actually working hard even though not noticable in mechanics if mechanics are good> That's what I mean by a pitcher who is able to throw hard effortlessly peace

quote:

... if mechanics are good>

....

I prefer efficient in place of good.

I've found the word "good" becomes very subjective

quote:

I prefer efficient in place of good.

Cap_n,

If you really want to get technical in the semantics, proficient would even be better than efficient. peace

quote:

If you really want to get technical in the semantics

........heck no, not at all, but............The notion (or illusion) that someone throws effortlessly at high velocity means that the thrower is getting the most velocity out of the least effort put in, or, their mechanics are efficient. After that, the hard part is repeating (or being proficient at) those effortless looking/efficient mechanics. I would rather have a pitcher proficient with efficient (effortless) mechanics over a pitcher proficient with inefficient (labored) mechanics.

Good Morning Cap_n and Board,

I absolutely agree 100 percent Cap_n.

Shep

I have seen many 90+ throwers and to be honest you can hardly see the difference in terms of effort. Some have jerky motions and others smooth.
Jeff Francis of the Rockies is an example of a guy who threw 80 MPH at his senior HS level and could not get a US school to look at him. He went to the University Of British Columbia in Vanciuver and came out throwing 90mph. 6'5" LHP that worked hard and was drafted in the 1st round. I talk to the UBC coach often and he has told me the dedication this guy had and the gains he made. I am hoping my son who is also dedicated will do the same.

Shep - you have a pm.

Back at cha bro.peace,Shep

quote:

Originally posted by FlippJ:

quote:

Originally posted by DeeMack:
Sometimes velocity developes late in pitchers

I agree that "sometimes" velocity develops late in pitchers. But I also believe that "many" times it does not.

You don't throw hard throwing soft.

Jason

I don't see where DeeMack said anything about throwing soft.In fact, his statement about velocity developing late in pitchers is right on the money. I see more college pitchers throwing harder than high school sophomores.

I have no facts from any study but based on the guys I know most have picked up 5-6mph at college. Some like Francis 9-10mph.
There are lots of guys who are physically well developed before college who throw 85+. Some of them can pitch and some can't. When they reach college level the pitchers are separated from the throwers pretty quick.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I have no facts from any study but based on the guys I know most have picked up 5-6mph at college. Some like Francis 9-10mph.
There are lots of guys who are physically well developed before college who throw 85+. Some of them can pitch and some can't. When they reach college level the pitchers are separated from the throwers pretty quick.

Based on what you are saying, if son is throwing at 93, he should be 98 in another two years? I tend to doubt that.

There is NO guarantee that any pitcher will increase velocity in college. Some tend to think becoming more mature, added weight will do it. Like Flipp says, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. Most college coaches don't have time to wait for a pitcher to develop, what they do is teach them to effectively work with what they have and sometimes with that adjustment, velocity increases.

College does not seperate the pitchers from the throwers, that's why we have pro ball.

TPM no I was looking at the guys I know who are not physically advanced throwing low to mid 80s. I am speaking about kids I know of personally.

Good Evening Fellas and Ladies,

Apologize to all for my part in that mess in other thread.

Back to learning here. I mentioned something in this thread several weeks ago about upperhalve getting running start in order to generate hand-speed in forward arm action/TQ slot in delivery. Never got a response from that comment and really would like others input on that. Could be very good sidebar conversation on this very good LHP on this topic of Bobbleheaddoll thrower. Will be back after 7:00 game. peace everybody...

Shep

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
TPM no I was looking at the guys I know who are not physically advanced throwing low to mid 80s. I am speaking about kids I know of personally.

Got it!

"Based on what you are saying, if son is throwing at 93, he should be 98 in another two years? I tend to doubt "

Well just think about it. if a guy is throwing 85mph when he ends hs and goes to college. IF they teach to get the most out of his body and work on his flaws, he could throw 90mph.

If a guy is throwing 93mph, then it's obvious thats he got the most got out of his body and arm. Unless he has some flaws

Shep not too sure what you mean by running start. You have to come to a set position which means you are at a still position before you start your motion.
Please explain.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Shep not too sure what you mean by running start. You have to come to a set position which means you are at a still position before you start your motion.
Please explain.

The way I understand it is that you want to be moving forward the entire time while throwing. I think the "set/balance postition" (lead leg up)is not reality (or not the optimal way to throw). You do not want to be "stalling out" over the rubber during your delivery. This is a momentume killer, and obviously a velocity killer.

You have to come set or you balk. You have to have a clear and distict set position .
You have to set,rock back and then come forward. No options there.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
You have to come set or you balk. You have to have a clear and distict set position .
You have to set,rock back and then come forward. No options there.

Right. I was thinking from throwing from a full windup. What I'm trying to say is once the throw "process" starts, you do not want any pauses in your delivery.

You're right Rob.

The throw starts from hand break. You want no hesitation or pause or slowing down from a point even earlier than handbreak.

The throw starts from set.

Then you better be set at handbreak.

I would like to know how that is accomplished ? You are at set and everything is motionless or you balk. Some pitchers rock back breaking set and raise their hands high over their head before bringing them down to break. Some pitchers rock back farther than others maybe that is what you are talking about.
Set ,rock break and load before coming forward. I actually like a little hesitation at full load before coming forward.

It's not. That's why the throw starting from set is not right.

Maybe it starts at hut.

Ever hear of a windup?

quote:

I actually like a little hesitation at full load before coming forward.

A velocity killer.

BTW, there is no such thing as "at full load".

Windup ? Hmmm Is that what you are doing ?

Good Evening fellas/ladies

I was asked to define upperhalve getting running start.

The best way I can describe what I mean by "running start" assuming all other aspects of mechanics are sound in upperhalve: the throwing arm, after hands break away from glove, never has any hesitation when pronating shoulder capsule away from body. The motion is one continuous motion that never pauses but actually generates a sort of rhythm in arm-action going back and coming forward. Almost like a carousel waving motion of a third base coach waving a runner home frantically, but of course not stiff-armed but has angles at stages of windup in relation to pitcher's arm action, but more of a continuous motion with no hesitation, at any point in delivery.

Example: A seasoned pitcher I spoke with today at length who also coaches and scouts at advanced levels who requested to remain anonymous, said this, and I quote: "A kid in our minor league system had tendency to take ball directly out of glove rotating back at top taking ball away from body and pausing at top before coming forward. He only threw 88MPH. We just had him focus on creating a break with his hands removing ball from glove and maintaining continuous motion in circular counter-clockwise fashion with (hand/thumb) to the side/pronate in the ride/and turn ball to center field on backside. All this without allowing any type of pause." He then continued by saying, "this kid now cruises around 93MPH and touches 94-95 occasionally since creating the non-stop whiplike motion in his arms."-anonymous

This is one very obvious example of how arm-action in delivery can effect amount of arm-speed created and "getting running start in upperhalve" can increase velocity.

Hope this clears things up on definition thereof. It's hard describing pitching terminology. Believe 100% with instructional pitching coach comments on this topic today and grateful he was willing to share with us. peace,Shep

This guy seems to have a running start. His hands arn't at a pause

At the risk of agreeing with another poster, your right Smokky1, Bobblehead's clip here does show nice arm action with no pause and upperhalve does create running start even though motion is not full-speed. peace,Shep

Thanks Shep for the explanation.
Yes he does throw with continuoas motion but I have npticed that if he throws his curve balls like that the break is not as sharp.