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quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
HAKKO

FACT: very few great hitters were denied the HOF because of poor fielding

The greatest all around OF I have ever seen, bar none,is Willie Mays,


TRhit

FACT: I never said or even insinuated Bonds did not deserve to be in the HOF.

FACT: I never denied that he wasn't one of the best, if not the best power hitters of all time.

FACT: The only argument I made was that I don't hink Bonds is the best player (or outfielder) to ever play the game.
I'm a heck of a lot more concerned about my kids being influenced by their peers rather than Barry Bonds. If your kid is going to be a 'victim' of steroid abuse - or any drug abuse, sexually transmitted desease, alcohol poisoning or addiction, violent crime, whatever - I'd bet my last nickel Bond's won't have much to do with it if you've raised your kid with any kind of values at all. The dangers and influences are much closer to home. The kid with the locker next to your son's (or daughter's) is much more of a danger that Barry Bonds.

Bond's is no saint - few if any condone his steroid usage. You're putting on the same blinders MLB wore if you want to deny his unmistakeable talents. The vast majority of those talents did not come from a syringe.
WELL, Itsagreatgame wins the award for the most intelligent post on this thread. He may be the most intelligent poster to comment on this thread.

I hope they lock this thread, and feel free to remove this current post if they do. What Itsagreatgame has said is something that all of us should take heed of. The true dangers lie quite close to home, not as much from professional athletes.

Itsagreatgame, thank you for such a well thought out comment!
I maintain the theory that kids are pressured more by their peers to do things that are not good for them as opposed to the public figure that is already somewhat disgraced because of his errors. Bonds won't hand your kid a syringe. Daryl Strawberry won't hand your son a crack pipe. Budweiser ads won't buy your kid a six pack. Bill Clinton won't introduce your kid to a Monica Lewinski (sp.?) As long as the opportunity presents itself and as long as a kid thinks he can get away with it and as long as the temptation is there and as long as he feels pressured and a need to be accepted poor choices will be made.

The people mentioned above all have had shortcomings of some magnitude or have otherwise been blamed for the demise of himself, his team, his country, teen drinking, whatever. They also all have some admirable traits that frankly, I hope my kids develope. I'm pretty certain that if they succumb to drugs, ***, liquor or performance enhancers they won't say "I did it 'cause I wanted to be like Barry/Bill/Daryl". Most likely they will say they wanted to take the fast track and the opportunity was there. It ultimately boils down to a need to be accepted. Only the venue changes.
Last edited by itsagreatgame
Its.....if sports stars have minimal influence on our kids....then why is Nike paying them so much to wear their line? Why is Addias? Why are major corporations shelling out millions to have these guys promote their stuff.....Why?????

Of course MLB steroid users are not going to personally give my kid steroids......what they do give him.....is a good reason to try them.....they are a walking advertisement for what steroids can do for their game......make them bigger, make them stronger....make them great!!!

I'd rather battle the kid whose locker is across from my sons.....thank you.
Last edited by LadyNmom
(please forgive the bad spelling)

will everyone remember that all kids do not fall into peer pressure and know that steriods is wrong. the parents that dont believe your sons about if they take steroids yall should believe them if there is no physical sign of them taking steroids. and if they do get bigger gradually it could be them goin to the weight room. if you have not noticed im a young player. and my gather has asked me if i have taken steroids and i gave him the truthful answer NO. so remeber that there all good kids out there that know the difference between right and wrong. does any1 agree?

p.s.
i cant really say that i ahve heard of any1 talkinb about usin steroids at school. i have heard 1 or 2 cases of some1 taking creatince but that is not bad (if taking right and is natural.
Cub.....overlooking the spelling....because I'm not very good at it either...but Cub....you need to work on it....and that is meant with the best of intentions....I'm thinking you are going to be playing college ball someday....and those college professors can be sticklers for spelling and grammer....

Thanks also for addressing the fact that not all kids feel the need to be accepted...at the cost of doing something harmful to themselves....and...yes.....there are a lot of good kids out there.......and it sounds as if you are one of them.....you should be proud....as I'm sure your Dad is.....
Last edited by LadyNmom
Bonds took steroids. Steroids made him stronger. From my knowledge, steroids don't make your head grow like that - Human Growth Hormone does. HGH is not detectable by testing. It also gives you a lot more strength, faster recovery time, etc.
Steroids make your joints wear out faster (ask "Superstar Billy Graham") among all the other things. Maybe Bonds is done for already.
If Bonds surpasses Ruth and/or Aaron, there will always be a big asterik there for me and if he make the HOF - well he won't be there for me as well as all the other known cheaters and all this will be going towards those before 1970 so you are fairly sure they didn't use 'roids, etc. Just talk about all the old timers.
Don't want to hear about cleaning up the game. Sure there isn't another "clear" already out there. The East Bloc countries and Russia spent lots of research on beating the drug tests of the Olympics - do you really think that all the weight lifters on the Olympics are clean?? They have some who have been setting records for several years and then mess up and get caught. So they set records clean and then started cheating??
This is all a sore subject to me. I used to look at the lifters and bodybuilders when I was a teenager and thought I could look like them. I wish that someone had told me then what the truth was so I could have worked out differently (not so hard and often)and actually gained weight. The extra weight and strength would have helped me in HS sports.
Tim Robertson
Note that it's the Tiger Woods, the Michael Jordans and the Richard Pettys that are selling the products. The Mark McGwires, Raffi Palmeros and Mike Tysons are recognized as 'tainted'. The 'bad guys' don't sell. Advertising 101.

Look - I'm not saying sports figures, heros or superheros don't influence our kids. What I'm saying is kids that are taught any sense of traditional values won't try to emulate a fallen hero. They may still want to hit 70 homers a season like McGwire or 500 homers like Palmero but they probably have figured out that if they try to get there by making the same mistakes their heros did they won't be the guy in the McDonald's/Viagra/Everlast commercials. They are going to feel more pressure and more temptation from immediate sources.

LadyNMom / AzRed - wasn't attacking you. Just stating some truths that are hard for us to accept. It's much easier to blame our shortcomings on negative role models than to face the truth that it's our children that are making the mistakes.

Thanks. I'm done.
Its....thanks for the course in Marketing 101 and Child Raising 202....but I still stand by my oringinal postings.......I did not say Jordan or Woods are bad influences....I said that sports stars do influence.....don't twist....please.....also.....

.....never said you were attacking me ....where did you get that from??? Do we need to discuss Perceptive Posting 101? 'Cause I think I'm missing something......
Last edited by LadyNmom
DBAT...educate me please....what is a "machine gun posting"?

Is it offering a different opinion?

Is it being in disagreement with another poster?

Is it saying I think you are wrong?

Is it not letting Its have the final post? I've only responded to each of his posts...but should he have the last word? Is that it?

What have I posted that was different in style from any other poster on this thread?

If I change my name to CoachNdad...would that disqualify me as a "machine gun poster"...????

What is it? Please explain......

And....for someone who meant no offense....you sure went to great lenghts to illustrate your point....
Last edited by LadyNmom
Well DBAT.....I'm going to take that as a compliment....when it comes to this issue...and excuses for steroid users....yeah.....I'm definitely on the offensive....thank you....appreciate you recognizing it.....also appreciate what you have constuctively contributed to the thread......sure some of the good old boys do too.....and you are not sorry for anything.....think your style of posting is bait.....and wait....right Coach?
Last edited by LadyNmom


Personally I feel that Bonds is a cheater. Period. He's embarassed himself and the game. His achievements, while impressive to say the least, are now forever tarnished. Would have been best for Bonds to have walked away after last season.

IMO, a cheater is a cheater is a cheater. Same goes for all the guys that have done it whether they've been outed yet or not. Just look at McGwire - once revered and now he's just a guy who achieved greatness but cheated to do it. A cheater.

quote:
Well DBAT.....I'm going to take that as a compliment....when it comes to this issue...and excuses for steroid users....yeah.....I'm definitely on the offensive....thank you....appreciate you recognizing it.....also appreciate what you have constuctively contributed to the thread......sure some of the good old boys do too.....and you are not sorry for anything.....think your style of posting is bait.....and wait....right Coach?
Said I was sorry as comment was in jest. Had nothing to do with content - just style. The good old boys comment says a lot about you, though. Keep on gunnin'!

Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
Players to reach the top of their sport and be recognized as one of histories greatest & Ambassadors of their sport. Whose the odd man out?

Barry Bonds
Michael Jordan
Lance Armstrong
Joe Montana
Willie Mays
Magic Johnson
Tiger Woods
Nolan Ryan
Hank Aaron
Wayne Gretsky

Yes, I'm forgetting many others but you get the drift. What else needs to be said about Steroid Barry.
DBAT....sorry if you took offense to my good old boy phrase.....but male posters on this thread....06CatcherDad...he had 5 postings....EH....7 postings.....yet you took offense only to mine....what is a girl to think? But tell you what....go back to my questions...and answer them.....and then.......well I will most definitely apologize....if you can come up with why my postings are different from.....say....EH....or Its......and I'm hoping your explanations/vocabulary can expand beyond rat-a-tat-tat.....come on DBAT.....give it a try.....there has to be a reason why you think my postings are different from theirs....let's hear it....please?
Last edited by LadyNmom
quote:
DBAT....sorry if you took offense to my good old boy phrase.....but male posters on this thread....06CatcherDad...he had 5 postings....EH....7 postings.....yet you took offense only to mine....what is a girl to think? But tell you what....go back to my questions...and answer them.....and then.......well I will most definitely apologize....if you can come up with why my postings are different from.....say....EH....or Its......and I'm hoping your explanations/vocabulary can expand beyond rat-a-tat-tat.....come on DBAT.....give it a try.....there has to be a reason why you think my postings are different from theirs....let's hear it....please?
Ummm, let's see, they speak in complete sentences. Smile
Last edited by Frozen Ropes GM
DBAT....that's it? That's why you got personal about my postings? You can't come up with one credible reason to single out my postings.....except that you don't like my sentence structure? Well okay....if sentence sturcture is that important to you.....I can understand why you singled me out.....can't quite correlate machine guns and lack of complete sentences...but I'll work at it.....meanwhile it's good to know that you took exception to my postings, not because I'm the only female poster on this thread....but rather because of my lack of sentence structure....

Don't worry Missouri....think DBAT is just about done.....unless he finds fault with my lack of a spelling checker......
Bear, you are good at taking cheap shots...I've been guessing/thinking you are the moderator that wiped out all the female postings in the Men's forum.....how about it Bear? Are you a moderator for the Men's Forum? Just a guess on my part....but you sure would fit the bill of someone who would do that.....and...as other posters noticed too.... you had a pattern of log ins that coincided with the deletions...maybe you should talk to the Tin Man?

Its....you are keeping good company....
Last edited by LadyNmom
Bonds is the best hitter of all time.

Unless they can tell me that steroids help your eye-hand coordination, I will maintain my stance.

I'm not asking him to go out with my daughter, for heaven's sake. I'm asking him to hit a baseball thrown by a major league pitcher (most of those sissies didn't throw to him nearly 200 at bats each year for the past 7 years).

Barry...you have a huge fan in Chicagoland. Don't pay attention to those naysayers in the media who make $40 grand a year.
Been - I'll buy greatest hitter of alltime.
Only thing roids did is help with all the homers after age 35. Those numbers at that age have never been seen before and never will be approached in the future. He always had great hand-eye, lightning quick bat, great eye on ball/strikes and hit plenty of homers before the juice.
Footnote regarding the media. Many of the folks you hear on talk-radio are making $250,000 to $1,000,000 per year while a whole bunch of print and tv types make a real, real nice living. Not just the smalltime media who rip Bonds - what does media salary have to do with him being a liar, cheater, and a criminal.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/barry_bonds_autograph.jpg
Remember this guy? The five tool player? This picture was from 1990. He'd be lost in the shadow of the current Bonds.

BeenThere, you continually post the same drivel about Bonds, his walk totals, steroids don't improve hand-eye coordination, blah, blah, blah. Your boy Barry's walk totals jumped starting in 2000...yeah, when his body morphed from Pee Wee Herman into Godzilla. MLB umps don't call a strike zone anywhere close to what it's supposed to be...the zone enjoyed by Barry is microscopic...he gets the Michael Jordan treatment when it comes to his strike zone. You remember your boy MJ...he walked more than a group of door to door Jehovahs Witnesses selling salvation, and never had it called....the strike zone called on Bonds is about the size of a teacup, low and inside, right in his wheelhouse. Anything outside of that, it's a ball. He wears more armor than an NFL linebacker, crowds the plate, but has only been hit with a pitch on avg. of less than 5 times per year for 20 years. Yes, he's protected by the powers that be at MLB...you'd be a fool not to recognize that.

I don't think that anyone here has ever stated that steroids help your hand-eye coordination, though there are people researching that right now. What steroids do is increase your strength, increase your batspeed, and add distance to the balls you hit...meaning more HR's. Barry is one of those guys blessed with excellent hand-eye coordination...it's a no brainer that adding on a tremendous amount of strength gain = increased HR totals, which = $18 million bucks a year to play ball.

To your boy Barry, this is all a big soap opera. Listening to his interviews, he obviously looks at himself as being bigger than the game, and he's going to push the envelope with impunity as long as he thinks he can get away with it. It's amazing to look at players that, a year or two ago, looked like Charles Atlas...now, they look like the guy that had sand kicked in his face at the beach. Sosa shriveled up and quit. I haven't seen the rapidly shrinking Raffy Palmeiro since he stubbornly insisted that he didn't know how the Winstrol wound up injected into him. Bret Boone and Pudge Rodriguez look like batboys.

But there's your boy Barry...all 230 lbs. of him, after he finally decided to grace his team with his arrival, telling the media with a straight face that he's always been fat, and always been big...knowing darn well that none of them would mention that he was about 175 lbs. for years...until he hit his massive growth spurt...and why won't they mention it? Your boy Barry has a penchant for pulling the race card when he's backed into a corner, and the reporters know the story is gone when he shuts up. He's having a ball with it...he's retiring, maybe not, just having fun jerking their strings...knowing full well that no one can prove if he's taking an illegal supplement or not. MLB doesn't test for HGH. MLB can't test for designer steroids and/or masking agents. Why do you think your boy Barry backed out of the World Tournament? Word came out that the players would be tested to Olympic standards, which include the above items, and other supplements that MLB can't detect...and Barry ran so fast backing out of the games, you would have sworn he was Deion Sanders in a windsprint.

Beenthere, I've been reading these boards for years...probably in the ballpark of seven years, and I've read a ton of your posts. You're opinionated...that's ok. You're a huge Bonds fan...that's ok, too. You have a nasty habit of taking digs at people, then saying "who, me"? and acting innocent about it...I can overlook that, because you're basically a rude Chicagoan with a chip on his shoulder, and I tend to ignore rude peole with chips on their shoulder, because they usually aren't worth me wasting my time. True to form, you have a dig to send to people that make 40 grand/year...and when someone calls you on it, as usual, you'll play dumb, and say, "who, me"?
Yeah, you're not asking your boy Barry to go out with your daughter, and, as you so eloquently stated in the past on this same subject, you really don't care if Bonds is cheating or not.

So, I'll throw this at you a different way. You've got one son that played at Miss. St., and another that may or may not still be playing college ball somewhere. Here's the deal...your kids decide the only way to have a shot at pro ball is to do steroids. Are you in favor of that?

Part 2...bear with me...your kids make the majors...and get to the point where 1 monster year can get them the mega contract they want that would provide financial security for the rest of their lives. For whatever reason, Bonds hooks them up with a designer cocktail of steroids and HGH,"clear", and "cream".

First, they get popped in a test, because the mix was wrong. Are you humiliated, or do you think that they were justified in doing it? Second, one of your kids has a massive stroke linked to the steroid usage, and dies.

Knowing that Bonds was the middle man, does that change your attitude about him? Or does he still exhibit Boy Scout-like qualities, and everythings ok, because Barry has tremendous hand-eye coordination, and it really doesn't matter to anyone in the world what he's doing?

I think I know what your answer is going to be...
BARRY GO HOME!!!!
The guy has a great swing and that's where it ends. He doesn't talk to the media, doesn't talk to fans and dresses seperate from his team mates before games. I can guarantee if i am Barry Bonds I know every thing that enters my body. would you take something that you supposedly didn't know what it was? give me a break Barry! what kind of message are we sending to our youth by letting this freak break a sacred record from a clean hard working player like # 44, while his roided butt jumps 30+ HR in one year with the same swing!! Good Riddance Roid Monster. toilet
quote:
I can overlook that, because you're basically a rude Chicagoan with a chip on his shoulder, and I tend to ignore rude peole with chips on their shoulder, because they usually aren't worth me wasting my time.


Knock yourself out!

In response to my post, you've probably written the longest post you've written in 7 years.

If you don't like what I write, that is ok. You have an opinion. I have an opinion.

If I write "drivel"...What do you write? Likely "double drivel"!
Last edited by BeenthereIL
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