Bonds retiring after 06 season!

Don't hold your breath on this. And, I must add, he's the best player I've ever seen, by far.

I couldn't be happier than to see him retiring.

As for being the best player, I would say the best hitter. He has gotten quite lazy in the field so I would not regard him as the bets outfielder.

Bonds was a gold glove OF too many times in his prime to not be among the bestr Outfielders of all time

Did you also hear Bonds may stay around in 2007!

Bonds is being Bonds---Plain and Simple!!!!

2007 will depend on what he does in 2006

I also couldn't be happier that he's retiring. As far as being the best hitter, I still think that no one is a better hitter than Ted Williams was. You can't go by Home runs. Also Tony Gwynn used to pick out a seat, not a section a seat, and hit it consistently when he was taking BP. Plus, none of these guys where on steroids. You can't tell me Bonds is clean, if you look at him when he played for the Pirates and now and compare the two pictures, Bonds is much bigger, his head is huge now. I don't care how many home runs he hit, I can't respect a cheater.

-Kevin

WAY too many HR's, MVP's, Gold Gloves and numerous other records NOT to be considered one of, if not the best position player of all time.

I've been a Bonds fan since he was a star at Arizona State.

Best hitter of all time.

150-200 INTENTIONAL WALKS to him for 6-7 years says it all.

Big league pitchers AFRAID of a big league hitter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at what he has done on the field and not what some mopes who write sports columns think of him. Half of those guys couldn't hit a ball off a tee!

People who won't acknowledge Bonds' accomplishments are simply being closed minded. It is more than just the home runs. It is also the batting average for a power hitter, the on-base percentage, RBI's, sluggingh pct., total bases, stolen bases, and fielding accomplishments over a career. If you honestly look at his entie career, a strong case can be made for being one of the very, very few who can legitimately be discussed as the best ever.

He also does something that nobody else in the game today does. He changes the way the other team plays the game simply by his presence in the lineup, or on the bench if he hasn't yet entered the game. All of us arm chair managers can debate him endlessly. What matters is how the opposing pitchers and managers regard him, and that is still as the most potent and dangerous hitter to face in all of baseball, even at his age.

If he stays healthy this year, and the hitters behind him have good years, he could post another season that few other players ever acheive at any point in their careers.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Bonds was a gold glove OF too many times in his prime to not be among the bestr Outfielders of all time

Bonds last won the last of his 8 gold gloves in 1998. Yes, that was in his prime, and he was really good if not the best at that time. Roberto Clemente won 12 straight gold gloves before he died. I am not willing to say that Bonds is a better outfielder than Clemente. (BTW, Jim Edmunds also has 8 but is not mentioned in the same breath as Bonds because of Bonds' bat.)

Bonds legacy will forever be tied to his bat and rightly so. He is a batter to be feared. He is by far the best hitting outfielder in history. I just don't think he is the best position playing outfielder in history.

As one who is certainly not a Bonds fan, may I say that there is a difference between not appreciating the man and not appreciating the record. (Attitudes toward Ty Cobb spring to mind here.)

One of the many, many reasons baseball is such an amazing sport is that the stars are with us for 10-15 years. We feel we know them as people in addition to athletes. Bonds is not a person I would want my son to emulate. Bonds is not a person whom I feel is good for baseball --- not only because of the shadow of illegal substances, but because of his constant whining. (I want to be feared as a hitter, I want to be paid huge sums of money, but I don't want any critics, any questions I don't approve of, and I want my complete privacy. Huh??????)

As a parallel, think of either the current or former President, depending on your leanings. Did he do some good things for the country? Yes. Where you/will you be glad to see the back of him? Yes. Same with Bonds. Personally, I'll be happy to see a lot more baseball reporting on ESPN et al, and a lot less Barry Magnification.

Lets just say that Bonds and a good part of the Home run hitters of the 90's and early 2000's were on the Juice.

I do not condone any of this action. Cheating is Cheating

But they, The Players were almost encouraged by the MLB.Wink Wink. to do this by watching all the other Players around them getting big contracts, putting up huge Numbers.
And Compeating Like the were big time Wrestlers, Aka. Super Heroes.
It all came down to Greed and the all mighty Dollar For the MLB Owners and the Players.
I feel for the Players that played it clean in HS, College, Minors, and the Majors.
That either did not get the chance or the contract and recongniation that they deserved.
I'm not being closed minded. To win at all cost by Cheating is a hollow victory.
If a player can live with that, So be it.
Do I think that Bonds is a great player, Yes.
Do I believe what he did was right, No.
And that goes for every other Player/Owner/Agent/Sports Docter/Trainer out there that thought that Cheating to achieve there Goals was the right thing to do. The EH

EH, I hate to point out the obvious, but Bonds has been pretty huge, physically, the last two years, even though the steroids controversy has been brewing longer than that. Do you really think he's been taking steroids the last two years? He didn't fail a drug test last year, and in his limited playing time, put up some impressive numbers. The year before, he had a huge year, and he didn't fail a drug test then, either. I'll be surprised if he comes into camp much smaller than he's been in the past.

Do you know for a fact that he did take any before that? I don't know. Suspicion is just that and nothing more. As far as I'm aware, Bonds has never failed a test for any banned substance. If he ever does fail a steroids test, I'll be right there with you and others in my disdain for the man. But, until that happens, if it ever does, I believe that an open mind about what he did or didn't do is warranted. One thing we don't need an open mind for is acknowledging his accomplishments, which are fact.

Hakko, I hate to tell you, but nobody ever got into the Hall of Fame based on just 5 or 6 years of accomplishments. It takes a long career of successful accomplishments to make the Hall of Fame, let alone be considered among the best players of all time. Bonds has acheived that.

By the way, how do all of you who feel so strongly about steroids feel about greenies? That is pretty widely acknowledged as a larger problem in baseball than steroids. Are you going to call every player who's ever taken greenies a cheater? Be careful, 'cause that might be a pretty large list compared to the steroid players.

06;
I don't believe just because someone is huge that there on the juice.
Every person that gets older gets huge.
My head is twice the size it was in HS. LOL
And I've never taken the Juice.
Bonds did say that he used a cream to rub on, but did not know what was in it???
And your right if he hasn't tested positive he is not Guilty.
Just like if the Glove doesn't fit!!! The EH

The thing about him getting huge he didnt get huge overnight it ook hi six years or so to go from the skinny guy to the well built player he is now.

He is a great hitter, makes it look so easy to turn on a 101 fastball and put into McCovey Cove.

I saw a stat last night when I was reading an article about his retirement. He needs 49 home runs to beat Hank Aaron. He has hit 49 in a season only twice! 2000 when he hit 49 and when he broke the record at 73; that's it! How do you just add 30+ more home runs that quickly?

Albert Pujols also causes the opposing manager to make changes. Where's his name at? Or Jim Edmunds, 8 Gold Gloves, and an above average hitter. He is a by-far better overall player than Bonds. Bonds is all hype. That's why he has so many MVPs--hype. There are much better players more deserving of the award.

quote:

Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Hakko, I hate to tell you, but nobody ever got into the Hall of Fame based on just 5 or 6 years of accomplishments. It takes a long career of successful accomplishments to make the Hall of Fame, let alone be considered among the best players of all time. Bonds has acheived that.

I am not arguing Bonds being in the Hall of Fame. I believe that is a given unless it were ever proven he took the juice. Even then, I believe he would get in and deservedly so. It is very hard to argue that Bonds is not the best power hitter to ever play the game. I have not and won't try to argue that. I will argue that Bonds is not the best outfielder to ever play the game. I just don't believe that to be true.

I believe Bonds won the MVP's for his bat and solid feild play, but others were certainly equally as good if not better in the outfield. History backs that statement up.

As I said, Bonds is a lock for the Hall of Fame and will likely enter as the all-time homerun leader and best power hitter the game has seen if his health holds up.

As far as Greenies are any other substance that gives the Athlete an advantage over another Athlete,
It is Cheating.
I'm not sure that Drug abuse give's anybody an advantage?
I'm no Patron saint on this problem, in are society.
I would just hope that are Athletes would play on a level playing field, And not feel the need to Cheat to get ahead. the EH

I believe that all the Players during the 80's, 90's, 2000's.
That put up the Numbers to get into the Hall of Fame.
Should be considered for the HOF.
They were almost? incouraged to do it by the MLB owners, Agents, Trainers.
To compete against the other sports Super Heros,
It was a product they were trying to sell on TV.
I'm just glad it over now??? the EH

I had almost forgotten about him! He must have realized many were forgetting...therefore; typical Bonds grandstanding...a very tired act!

(Do love to watch him swing it, though!)

Every left handed batter out there could learn from Bonds, On how to turn on an inside fastball.
Quikest bat in Baseball. no doubt about it. The EH

The talent Bond's has , was the talent he arrived in the game with. He has honed it, worked hard, become experienced and become great.
Illegal substance's, banned substance's.
How about Legal one's? Randy Johnson's knee injections before every start? Could he pitch without the injections?
If everyone in the 90's was doing the juice, were they not on a level playing field? How many relief pitchers have lost great velocity and have had arm injuries in the past 2 years?
We tend to look at only power numbers.
Even though Bonds is a bone head, his accomplishments are incredible in any era.
Did the roids make his eye sight better?
Why wasn't Conseco nothing more than a power hitter with speed? Albeit a great offensive player.
Give Bonds some credit for his hard work and approach even if you believe the idiotic Press and you don't like him.

Say what you want about him as a person, his drug use, etc.

He is the best hitter of his generation bar none.

The bat boys were on juice in the late 90's early 2000's and yes Bonds admitted to taking substances he did not know the ingredients of. IMO it really does not matter the guy can flat out rake.

Retiring huh? Guess his source of 'roids is drying up.

To me, the ends doesn't justify the means. I have no respect for the Bond's, McGwire's and other roid-sters.

Guys....he admitted taking steroids....said he didn't know....blamed someone else..sound familar?.......I'm not arguing his accomplishments.....just don't know where to give Bonds credit and where to chalk it up to the roids.......

Bonds is very good at blaming the press for his problems......seems like we have a few posters who bought into Barry's excuses.....now if any of you are interested I have a bridge for sale.....

...and Doyle how can you say it doesn't matter if he used steroids or not.....are you serious?

Coach Ric

quote:

If everyone in the 90's was doing the juice, were they not on a level playing field? How many relief pitchers have lost great velocity and have had arm injuries in the past 2 years?

Not everyone in baseball was on steroids.
How about all those players in HS, College, Minors.
that were not on the juice, that never had the level playing field.
Who's Dreams were lost, Because of Cheaters.
What do you say to them? Tough Luck? The EH

HAKKO

FACT: very few great hitters were denied the HOF because of poor fielding

The greatest all around OF I have ever seen, bar none,is Willie Mays,

As others have pointed out, Bonds has admitted taking steroids. He just hasn't admitted responsibility as he claims he didn't know what he was taking. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to talk to you about buying.

When Bonds took steroids, he was taking substances that were/are illegal. Period. He is a great hitter. He has worked hard. He has great gifts. He has put up incredible numbers. All true. But he engaged in illegal behavior. Every parent on this board teaches their children to not engage in illegal behavior. Whether others were doing it, whether MLB condoned, even encouraged the behavior (which I believe it did), doesn't matter. How does someone get a 'pass' just because they are an incredible athlete? I understand how in the realm of public opinion, but I do not understand when it comes to teaching our children right from wrong.

Forget passing drug tests. The tests are years behind the knowledge of the athletes on how to beat those tests. As the tests evolve, so does the athletes' (all, not just baseball players) knowledge of how to beat the new tests. Every so often, someone stumbles, but not that often.

And forget the arguments that steroids didn't make him a better hitter. Bull. Steroids make you stronger. Steroids help you recover faster from workouts and games. Steroids help you do more than you are otherwise capable of doing from a physical standpoint. Don't kid youself. Steroids work--and that's the problem.

What really angers me about the media giving players a pass on steroid use, even some of you posting here who choose to overlook this illegal behavior, is that my son is playing in college and now facing this kind of pressure. He assures me, and I believe him, that he will not take steroids. But I also know his drive and ambition. I know that he has teammates who are already taking steroids because they believe that is the only way they can move to the next level. This is true of his teammates in college and of his teammates this past summer in one of the collegiat summer leagues.

What happens when a kid gets to AA or AAA and, because of what some of the pro athletes have done, decides that the only way he is going to advance is to take steroids? Do you want your son in that position?

This is not a small problem. Major League Baseball has behaved terribly. Professional athletes of all sports continue to engage in this illegal behavior. Don't talk to me about their wonderful accomplishments; I can't see beyond their steroid use.

Don't worry Ladynmom, I'm not defending Bonds, but rather, trying to point out the double standard some of us fans ascribe to athletes we don't care for. Myself, I think Bonds is a jerk, and an *ss. But, I also know that he has done things on a baseball field that almost nobody else has accomplished; and until and unless he's definitively found to have violated MLB's rules, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. That is called being "objective".

He's not someone I'd want any of my boys to emulate, other than for his dedication to honing his craft, and the amount of work he puts into his preparation. Just because you or I donn't like the guy doesn't mean we're justified in publicly stringing him up anymore than our press is, and they have no basis for doing most of what they do to Bonds, or most other athletes for that matter. If I had to choose any side to be on, I'd pick the side opposite most of our press any time. I'd usually be on the right side, too.

I second that TRhit, Although my dad did not like the way Mays basket caught the ball. He thought it was showboating.
Also if Griffey JR. could have stayed healthy we wouldn't be talking about Bonds?

He has a second career ahead of him as a shrunken head.

Sorpe....well said........ The next generation.....that is my concern also....and for some posters to say "....it doesn't matter about his drug usage.....he is still a great hitter.....". Well, as a parent, and baseball fan....I find that very disturbing....

How many times have our kids said in defense of bad behavior or wanting to do something we forbid....."Why can't I...everyone else is doing it...."? How many times as parents have we taken that childish argument and tossed it right back at the kids....."No...don't even go there......wrong is wrong....."

Yet on this thread....we have adults....saying....it's okay....everyone else was doing it......

06catcherdad....read your post after posting this.....so adding.....Bonds admitted usage.....no way around it.....it's in the record.....so I ask once again....what do we give him credit for exactly? The swing? Quick wrists? What do we credit with steriod usage? Power? Strength? How do you seperate talent from drugs and come up with a fair evaluation?

i did not read every entry of every1 but i heard on the radio that he took back his statement and may play in 2007 if he is physically ok.

06, it's not called being objective; it's called being ill-informed. Bonds admitted to taking The Cream and The Clear. He just said he didn't know what was in it; this from a guy who has had blood drawn to determine his vitamin needs.

Steroids are a controlled substance, distributing or taking them without a doctor's presription because of a valid medical reason is against US law, whatever MLB chooses to include in their regs. Ergo, he broke the law, the one we all have to abide by.

And I pretty much think anybody who has made it to the ranks of professional athlete has worked hard. Bonds isn't unique, or even laudable because of HIS work. One could even argue that players like David Eckstein work hader, as they have more to overcome.

Just because The Press says it doesn't make it right; it also doesn't make it wrong.

Do those people who can look past the illegal drugs he admitted having in his body also give a free pass to the crooks at Tyco, Enron, Worldcom etc. because for a time they made lots of money for their shareholders or were great execs before they got caught. I doubt it. Ok to cheat and lie if you can go yard or drive a stock price up????

I'm scared that my kid will take steroids. Like Sorpe said, "they work!" That scares me. My kid's a prime candidate. He's 16 years old, 6'1" & 175 pounds (last time I checked). He plays baseball and football and isn't as thick or as strong as he'd like to be.

He knows that there is a shortcut available and I have zero doubt that he could figure out how to get his hands on some. How scary is that?

We talk about it all the time (he says he would never take steroids). I tell him that there is no acceptable outcome to cheating. I'd rather he quit sports than cheat. There's no honor.

So I can't excuse steroid use, even "accidental" use, without helping build the feeling that it's OK to cheat. It is not.

I find it hard to believe that, on this forum, I can read that people here excuse cheating. Most posters on this board are either a parent (or other relative) of a young player, or a coach of young players.

Can you look your sons and/or players in the eye and tell them "it's OK because he said didn't know" or "it doesn't matter because he can rake"?

I can't.

Mike F

LadyNmom and others,

Just to be clear in no way am I defending Bonds.

I was just stating that it is too hard to seperate those who were "on" and those who were clean in this era. Sadly, they are all going to be lumped into one category.

Do I think Bonds was fooled into taking the cream? Of course not. He knew what he was doing.

But from a pure statistical standpoint he is the best hitter of his era and maybe all-time.

Do I like how he got there? No

Do I encourage steroid use? Absolutely not.

But lets be honest, steroids is a very hot topic, especially amoung youth ballplayers.

So when I am asked about steriods I will not lie and say they don't work because then all credibility is lost. I explain what they do and the side effects that come along with them. I explain that steroids are cheating.

In fact, I will not train a ball player if they are using. I make that perfectly clear to every player I come in contact with.

Maybe I worded by initial post incorrectly. I was just pointing out his abilities as a ball player.

In no way was I justifying ot defending Bonds or his steriod use.

I think Mr. Doyle puts it better than I could, so I'll mostly leave his comments to also represent my thinking. I'd just like to add a couple thoughts. Believe me when I say this...I'm very glad that steroids are being eliminated from baseball. My own son, as well as many of his teammates, now have a more level playing field to compete on for baseball opportunities beyond high school, and for that I'm grateful. I'd hate to see any of them feel compelled to use illegal substances to get ahead, and especially if their prime motivation was because the other guys were doing it, and they felt they needed to keep up or drop out.

I guess I just view so much of the complaining about Bonds as piling on, or trying to knock off the guy at the top. You don't hear people complaining about the likes of Brady Anderson, Bobby Estalella, Brett Boone, or any number of other pitchers or position players who've also used steroids. It was way too widespread in the game for too long, and unless you can figure out who did and who didn't use them, it is biased to want to run some players out of the game and give others a pass. Everyone should be treated the same, but that isn't practical, so the best we can all do is to try to be clean going forward.

I dont think anyone on here is defending Bonds and if he did or did not use "roids--what they are defending is his ability to swing the bat---'roids didn't give him the ability to lay off bad pitches the way he does---'roids didn't give him the patience to wait our pitchers who try to make him chase bad pitches

JMO