Broken Arm

quote:

Originally posted by Brem:
12 YO right-handed son broke his right arm Saturday. Nothing serious, but he's already bored. He only can shoot hoops with his left hand so much...

We've already decided that we are going to make him into a left-handed pitcher however, would one hand batting with the left hand benefit a swing from either side of the plate or would it just screw things up on both sides?

Thanks for your help!

Yes, from the left side of the plate, choke up to get control and he can build wrist strength and maybe even teach himself what the top hand is supposed to do in the swing. He can work on hand eye stuff with a small bat by just punching soft toss from the front with the knob of the bat.

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He can work on hand eye stuff with a small bat by just punching soft toss from the front with the knob of the bat.

I would try the barrel first. If that does not work try the handle. If there is still no success then try the knob.

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

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He can work on hand eye stuff with a small bat by just punching soft toss from the front with the knob of the bat.

I would try the barrel first. If that does not work try the handle. If there is still no success then try the knob.

Since the job of the bottom hand in a baseball swing is not to guide the BARREL to the ball, this is ignorant information you've given to someone that is looking for REAL advice.

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punching soft toss from the front with the knob of the bat.

Do you actually want them to hit the ball with the knob? Im going to stick with the barrel. IMO hitting the ball with the barrel is "REAL advice."

Im sorry you feel hitting the ball with the barrel is "ignorant information."

Your comments are always appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

quote:

punching soft toss from the front with the knob of the bat.

Do you actually want them to hit the ball with the knob? Im going to stick with the barrel. IMO hitting the ball with the barrel is "REAL advice."

Im sorry you feel hitting the ball with the barrel is "ignorant information."

Your comments are always appreciated.

Here's a hitting lesson for you. The job of the bottom hand in hitting is to guide the knob in the direction of the ball and to set up for the TOP HAND TO TAKE THE BARREL TO THE BALL and to then act as a lever for that top hand to get through the ball. No charge! Please, stick to pitching. Something you appear to know a little about.

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The job of the bottom hand in hitting is to guide the knob in the direction of the ball and to set up for the TOP HAND TO TAKE THE BARREL TO THE BALL and to then act as a lever for that top hand to get through the ball.

I understand how the hands operate, but feel knob to the ball is a bad que. I have worked with hitters who had knob to the ball approach who take the terminology so seriously that they are attempting and practicing sliding their hands straight to the ball and hitting a slice. IMO the hands dont take seperate swings to the ball, they work together.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:

quote:

Originally posted by Brem:
12 YO right-handed son broke his right arm Saturday. Nothing serious, but he's already bored. He only can shoot hoops with his left hand so much...

We've already decided that we are going to make him into a left-handed pitcher however, would one hand batting with the left hand benefit a swing from either side of the plate or would it just screw things up on both sides?

Thanks for your help!

Yes, from the left side of the plate, choke up to get control and he can build wrist strength and maybe even teach himself what the top hand is supposed to do in the swing. He can work on hand eye stuff with a small bat by just punching soft toss from the front with the knob of the bat.

Do you mean actually trying to hit the ball with the knob of the bat? I'm just asking

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

quote:

The job of the bottom hand in hitting is to guide the knob in the direction of the ball and to set up for the TOP HAND TO TAKE THE BARREL TO THE BALL and to then act as a lever for that top hand to get through the ball.

I understand how the hands operate, but feel knob to the ball is a bad que. I have worked with hitters who had knob to the ball approach who take the terminology so seriously that they are attempting and practicing sliding their hands straight to the ball and hitting a slice. IMO the hands dont take seperate swings to the ball, they work together.

Okay, this is more like it. A conversation about hitting instead of bashing each other. If a player is hitting a slice, he is not using his bottom hand correctly (as a lever once the top hand is fired). The only time this should happen is if you swing to a pitch out of the zone away or if your timing is off by being fooled on a pitch. If a hitter is trying to take the barrel to the ball with both hands they will lose wrist angle, thus losing power and late bat speed. I don't teach "knob to the ball" in those words. I teach my hitters to think, try to hit the ball with the knob of the bat when they first start to the ball. I learned this from Tony Gwynn, who learned it from Ted Williams (someone we both admired as a hitter) and it has been successful for me. The biggest problem with teaching hitters to take both hands to the ball is when they hit to the opposite field. Even if they let the ball get deep as they should, they will still be cutting the ball if they don't stop the bottom hand and use it as a lever. This should be done while the body can still be used as a fulcrum. This can be practiced by using a rolled towel and placing it under the front arm pit. If the towel falls out before contact, the bottom hand was not used properly. The drill I was suggesting to Brem should be performed with the rolled towel as well.

Do you mean actually trying to hit the ball with the knob of the bat? I'm just asking[/QUOTE]



Yes! You are just training your hand/eye coordination. The barrel will stay pointing at the catcher and you will punch the ball with the bottom end of the bat. You will start with your bellybutton pointed at the tosser, back knee bent in, front foot at contact position, back foot at 45 degrees and on the pad of your big toe. Now stretch the bat back toward the catcher and punch the tossed ball making contact without dropping the towel. The tosser can move around in front of the plate to teach the hitter to understand body position when hitting to different parts of the field.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
Do you mean actually trying to hit the ball with the knob of the bat? I'm just asking

Yes! You are just training your hand/eye coordination. The barrel will stay pointing at the catcher and you will punch the ball with the bottom end of the bat. You will start with your bellybutton pointed at the tosser, back knee bent in, front foot at contact position, back foot at 45 degrees and on the pad of your big toe. Now stretch the bat back toward the catcher and punch the tossed ball making contact without dropping the towel. The tosser can move around in front of the plate to teach the hitter to understand body position when hitting to different parts of the field.[/QUOTE]

I assume the towel you mention is tucked under your arm pit? I'm trying to visualize the drill

I assume the towel you mention is tucked under your arm pit? I'm trying to visualize the drill[/QUOTE]



Yes, if you read my last post to deemax, I explain what the towel is for and how it's used. Sorry for not putting that in my reply to you. This is a VERY good drill, even when you don't have a broken arm, LOL. Just to clarify, the back of the hand should be facing up through the entire drill.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
I assume the towel you mention is tucked under your arm pit? I'm trying to visualize the drill

Yes, if you read my last post to deemax, I explain what the towel is for and how it's used. Sorry for not putting that in my reply to you. This is a VERY good drill, even when you don't have a broken arm, LOL. Just to clarify, the back of the hand should be facing up through the entire drill.[/QUOTE]

Oh I see now....sorry for not reading more carefully. Thanks for clarifying!

quote:

Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
I assume the towel you mention is tucked under your arm pit? I'm trying to visualize the drill

Yes, if you read my last post to deemax, I explain what the towel is for and how it's used. Sorry for not putting that in my reply to you. This is a VERY good drill, even when you don't have a broken arm, LOL. Just to clarify, the back of the hand should be facing up through the entire drill.

Oh I see now....sorry for not reading more carefully. Thanks for clarifying![/QUOTE]



No problem.

Thanks for the help.

We'll give the drill a try!

quote:

Originally posted by Brem:
Thanks for the help.

We'll give the drill a try!

You're very welcome! Please let me know how you like it or if you have any questions.

Micmeister,I am starting to work on my sons arm barring problem and choked him up about 4" and had him hitting off the tee with the left hand only.From right side.Is this a good excersize and will it work or should it be used with the towel.


He could see immediately that if he arm barred,he had no controll of the bat and couldn't hit the ball.(this reminded me of the throwing bat trick you told us about)but with the left hand.


I added on this thread because it seems to go along with the one handed drills for a broken arm.

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I am starting to work on my sons arm barring problem

I watched your sons film again and didnt see a problem with the front arm barring, not that its a problem anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
Micmeister,I am starting to work on my sons arm barring problem and choked him up about 4" and had him hitting off the tee with the left hand only.From right side.Is this a good excersize and will it work or should it be used with the towel.

quote:

"Not in my opinion. I don't believe you hit the ball with your front arm. I believe the front arm is a guide and lever only. I think the drill you are describing only causes an arm barring problem and would not teach this drill."

quote:

He could see immediately that if he arm barred,he had no controll of the bat and couldn't hit the ball.(this reminded me of the throwing bat trick you told us about)but with the left hand.


I added on this thread because it seems to go along with the one handed drills for a broken arm.

quote:

Top hand takes sweet spot to the ball, bottom hand takes knob to the ball. Like you found out with that drill, if the arm bars it is much more difficult to keep your hands inside the ball and nearly impossible to keep the correct bat angle. Obviously your front arm will completley extend on some pitches and or at some point during the swing, but it is a BAD thing if it happens early in the swing. THe bat head needs to stay close to the back shoulder.

Remember, this is a drill for hand eye coordination and to learn the bat angle and position felt by the bottom hand. You will not be taking the knob all the way to the ball during the swing, just to the point at which the bottom hand becomes a lever.

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[QUOTE]

deemax,it isn't as bad in the video as it is now.He does it some in the video but not all the time.


We had a kid on the team that did it real bad and it seems that my son picked up the habit and right now it is getting worse.Sometimes his arm is completely locked before his shoulders or elbow moves.

He is trying to hit the ball hard and is trying to do it with his arms it seems,got to get back to believing in the hips and the rotation.

IMO barring is not a flaw, that was the my only point of concern. You might be trying to fix something that isnt broke.

I think Bonds initially bars.

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
I think Bonds initially bars.

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Bonds4.gif


At what point is he barring???

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:
IMO barring is not a flaw, that was the my only point of concern. You might be trying to fix something that isnt broke.

Judging from the distance the bat head is from his shoulder in this picture, it looks as though he has already started to throw his top hand. The knob is pointing at the outside corner, so I'd say this was an outside pitch and your arm is going to be more straight depending on how far outside it is. He would have a long way to go to get the barrel to an inside pitch. If you lock your front arm on inside pitches, you are going to hit a whole lot of foul balls.

Let me first say,sorry for the hijack.


I can say that arm barring has definately negatively affected my son.Of course being 8 probably has something to do with it.He was killing the ball and now he has been reduced to hard ground balls and was hitting line drives.


The good thing is he was swinging well so I don't think it will be that big of a deal to break it.


Here is what he looks like now.Not good imo.He is locked out even more than the picture above.

quote:

I can say that arm barring has definately negatively affected my son.

IMO his arm barring is not the problem in this picture.

The angle is a little awkward, but he looks like he is lunging a little bit (maybe he got fooled). Un-doing his arm bar wont stop a lunge.

He is definately lunging,he has been going too soon here lately as well.The thump of the machine is what is getting him.BUT,the machine is gone and we are facing live pitching now.

The good thing is even when it happens,he is still making contact.He gets his body into position to hit it.That's that athletic thing we discussed.


But even when he stays back,he doesn't have near the power or accuracy when he arm bars as he does when he brings the shoulders and elbow forward together and then extends.

I am not complaing about the extension,just that he is doing it FIRST before the shoulders or elbow goes toward the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
He is definately lunging,he has been going too soon here lately as well.The thump of the machine is what is getting him.BUT,the machine is gone and we are facing live pitching now.

The good thing is even when it happens,he is still making contact.He gets his body into position to hit it.That's that athletic thing we discussed.


But even when he stays back,he doesn't have near the power or accuracy when he arm bars as he does when he brings the shoulders and elbow forward together and then extends.

I am not complaing about the extension,just that he is doing it FIRST before the shoulders or elbow goes toward the ball.

Once again, you nailed it! I am not saying you can't hit the ball with a locked front arm, but you WILL have to adjust your body, start your swing sooner, stand farther from the plate on virtually every pitch. You will lose power and adjustability (thus the lunge problem). He will be able to adjust for now, but as the pitching gets better, he will struggle. Especially in a young player, they will hit many more balls off of the handle.

His coach did tell me that one of the reasons for the weight back drills he does(throwing a 5# ball from a seated position off a bucket,standing and pushing the ball forward while working your weight back)Is to keep from casting your hands.


Maybe we need to do that drill for a while as well.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
His coach did tell me that one of the reasons for the weight back drills he does(throwing a 5# ball from a seated position off a bucket,standing and pushing the ball forward while working your weight back)Is to keep from casting your hands.


Maybe we need to do that drill for a while as well.

The knob punch drill will help as well.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
His coach did tell me that one of the reasons for the weight back drills he does(throwing a 5# ball from a seated position off a bucket,standing and pushing the ball forward while working your weight back)Is to keep from casting your hands.


Maybe we need to do that drill for a while as well.

The knob punch drill will help as well.

I dont see how the knob punch drill helps with casting the bat at all. If he is casting make sure he places an emphasis on starting his swing by having his belly button turn toward the pitcher before his head and shoulders go toward the pitcher. Lunging becomes much more difficult when the core starts the swing forward.

You will be shocked how vastly his swing improves when he is no longer lunging.

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
His coach did tell me that one of the reasons for the weight back drills he does(throwing a 5# ball from a seated position off a bucket,standing and pushing the ball forward while working your weight back)Is to keep from casting your hands.


Maybe we need to do that drill for a while as well.

The knob punch drill will help as well.

I dont see how the knob punch drill helps with casting the bat at all. If he is casting make sure he places an emphasis on starting his swing by having his belly button turn toward the pitcher before his head and shoulders go toward the pitcher. Lunging becomes much more difficult when the core starts the swing forward.

You will be shocked how vastly his swing improves when he is no longer lunging.

I was refering to the arm barring problem, but if you bar your front arm as part of your swing, you will have to cast the bat head on many pitches just to get the sweet spot to the ball.

As far as the lunging problem goes, if you watch the video tfox first posted you will see that he does not have a lunging problem. Like you noted in one of your posts, "he may have been fooled on the pitch".

As far as the knob punch drill helping the arm barring, there is no doubt it will help. I've done it with many kids. The key is to keep the head still while punching and doing the punching with a towel under the arm and focus on using from the elbow down to punch and make contact.

The lunging is strictly a timing thing for him right now.He was starting his foot with the thump of the machine and he got used to it at a certain speed and distance but when all star hit,the machines changed and he had trouble slowing down his foot when the machines went back further and were slower.


He is now off the machine and will be facing live pitch.


I don't know which came first,the lunging or the arm barring.It was a graduall thing.He started out stroking the ball well in all stars but as time went on,his mechanics got worse.


Thanks for the responses.Even though it isn't my thread,again,sorry about the hijack.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
The lunging is strictly a timing thing for him right now.He was starting his foot with the thump of the machine and he got used to it at a certain speed and distance but when all star hit,the machines changed and he had trouble slowing down his foot when the machines went back further and were slower.


He is now off the machine and will be facing live pitch.


I don't know which came first,the lunging or the arm barring.It was a graduall thing.He started out stroking the ball well in all stars but as time went on,his mechanics got worse.


Thanks for the responses.Even though it isn't my thread,again,sorry about the hijack.

Yes, lunging is a timing problem and barring just compounds his timing problems. Anytime you switch from hitting off of a machine and go to live pitching, you will have timing problems. You say he timed his foot with the "thump of the machine", so he had a key to start his trigger. He just needs to find a new key. Many who have high leg kicks or long strides will time there stride with the pitcher's leg kick. I am a firm believer in less motion is better, so I try to teach kids to step on first sight or first recognition and then work your way back. What I mean by that, is start out stepping the first time you see the ball, then start waiting longer to step until you can get the swing to start as the front foot hits the ground and still hit a pitch down the middle to the middle of the field.