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Did anyone watch the HBO show "Real Sports" with host Bryant Gumbel? During the show he does an editorial about the Winter Olympics and this is what he said:

"And finally tonight the Winter Games. Count me among those that don't like 'em and won't watch 'em. In fact, I figure when Thomas Paine said, "These are the times that try men's souls", he must have been talking about the start of another Winter Olympics. Because they are so trying, maybe over the next three weeks we should all try too. Like try not to be incredulous when someone tries to link these games to those of the ancient Greeks who never heard of skating or skiing.Or try not to laugh when someone says these are the world’s greatest athletes, despite a paucity of Blacks that makes the Winter Games look like a GOP convention. Try not to point out that something's not really a sport if a psuedo-athlete waits in what's called a "kiss and cry area” while some panel of subjective judges decides who won. And try to blot out all logic when announcers and sports writers pretend to care about the luge, the skeleton, the biathlon, and all those other events they don't understand and totally ignore for all but three weeks every four years. Face it, these Olympics are little more than a marketing plan to fill space and sell time during the dreary days of February. So, if only to hasten the arrival of the day they're done, and we can move on to March Madness, for God's sake, let the Games begin."

I am offended by Mr. Gumbel's attack upon white athletes. He believes that since there are hardly any black athletes present, we must be watching second rate athletes.

His thought process, in addition to being disgustingly racist, also seems to be omnipresent throughout the mainstream media. Turn on any sporting event and you can hear the announcers praise black athletes for their "athleticism" and praise whites for their "high energy motor" or "competetive spirit". This prejudice against white athletes is becoming so overwhelming that I want to present a question or two to the board.

1.) Since baseball in this country is comprised of mostly white athletes, 90% or more at the High School and College level, should we look at baseball the same way Bryant Gumbel looks at the Winter Olympics. That is, concede that the game of baseball would be played at a higher level if only the black athlete were more involved? Or should we say that there used to be a lot more blacks involved at all levels of baseball and natural selection has brought about the numbers we see today?

2.) Is it a handicap to be a white athlete in this country? Will a player in baseball be given a different amount of opportunity than another player solely based on his skin color? In other words, are Colleges and owners of teams trying to fill racial quotas when they field teams?

My son has an interesting situation. His dad is white and his mom is Hispanic. He is a Junior in H.S. with a 3.95 GPA to go with a poptopop of 2.02 timed at a showcase last summer. He is a power hitter who adds offense to the catcher position. How do the posters here see colleges responding to his application depending on whether he puts down Hispanic or Cuacasian on the application?

If anyone has any real life stories along these lines I would be interested to hear them.
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Sounds like racist comments to me.

If they launched that mope, Al Campanis, for what he said about black athletes and swimming, they should launch Bryant Gumbel.

Too, what about the Oklahoma baseball coach resigning last year for what he said, "privately", to/about a black athlete.

Just listen to rap music and see how many times they use the "n" word.

No outcry from anyone.
Last edited by BeenthereIL
The fact is there has always been a double standard. You yourself will be attacked for even mentioning this in your thread. And anyone who agrees will be as well. The two best players in college basketball this year are white. Morrison and Reddick. But all you hear about when the announcers are doing the games is "Im not sure how well he will do in the NBA with all the athletes but he is a great college player". Then in baseball we are constantly reminded of how few blacks are playing baseball and how few opportunities they have. As if somehow the only reason the white players are doing well is because the black athletes are not getting a fair opportunity to compete. It gets very old. I say these things knowing that I will be attacked or quietly called a racist for just stating the facts. That is just the days we live in.
Dear Old Dad - welcome to the hsbbweb. Classic way to start off on a controversial subject that I am sure will draw a lot of responses here.

IMHO - I think Gumble is blatantly racist/hypocritical, and those comments clearly demonstrate it imho. I am so tired of being lectured at by the so-called "intellectually elite" in this country. They continually tell us they dream of the day when race is no longer an issue yet they continue to bring it up and throw it in our face. Gumbel is but one of many who deal in race. I wonder what his views were on Debbie Thomas - the Stanford trained MD who was a gifted, black, figure skater? Was she just the token black offered to appease the masses? I don't feel this way. But it seems to me that he and others of his ilk clearly do.
yea, I'm surpised they let Gumbel on air anymore

quote:
by DODad: He is a Junior in H.S. with a 3.95 GPA to go with a pop to pop of 2.02 . . . How do the posters here see colleges responding to his application depending on whether he puts down Hispanic or Cuacasian on the application?
my best guess is - they'll be interested in his height & weight and following his progress to see if he can shave a bit more off that pop time

good luck


.
Dear Old Dad.....your son will be much better off if he indicates hispanic.....the question is asked on employment/college applications for a reason......and to check any box, but caucasion, is an advantage. I'm speaking as a former HR Mgr......certainly you know this too.....As far as Gumbel goes....he is offensive, always has been......but he lives in a country that affords him freedom of speech.....it is his right to make racist statements.....of course that right now only applies to minorities......it has been removed from caucasions....in the name of political correctness.......it has not been removed constitutionally but rather in the forum of media driven....public opinion........racisim is wrong....and the penalty for it should be equally applied.....but it is not....witness Gumbel....

On to happier aspects of this thread.......the US Women's Hockey team looks sharp.....and may I say.....I'm thinking it takes some athleticism........WAY TO GO USA!
Last edited by LadyNmom
For those of you who want to make a complaint to HBO.

The discussion (and I use the word discussion with skeptisim) always poloarizes people. If you find what Gumbel said disturbing clink on the link.


LadyNmom said
"Dear Old Dad.....your son will be much better off if he indicates hispanic.....the question is asked on employment/college applications for a reason......and to check any box, but caucasion, is an advantage. I'm speaking as a former HR Mgr......certainly you know this too.....As far as Gumbel goes....he is offensive, always has been......but he lives in a country that affords him freedom of speech.....it is his right to make racist statements.....of course that right now only applies to minorities......it has been removed from caucasions....in the name of political correctness.......it has not been removed constitutionally but rather in the forum of media driven....public opinion........racisim is wrong....and the penalty for it should be equally applied.....but it is not....witness Gumbel...."

It just seems like there is a lot of anger in the comments above. To say that "it is his right to make racist statements.....of course that right now only applies to minorities" has racial issues itself. I think that "the minorities" may have a legit concern not with standing 1 TV personalities comments.

I bring this out not to fight w/ LadyNmom but to say if there is an issue with 1 man's public statements lets address it with HBO and not add fuel to the fire.


Link for HBO comments
Novice Dad...last time I checked this was still a discussion board.....did something change and no one told me? Did it move and not leave a forwarding?

I stand by my comments......they were not said in anger.....but....if you can name one caucasion, in the public forum, who has said something racial.....and not been called on it....like in loosing their jobs......let me know....and I'll take back that posting....I'll delete it....asap....

You call it anger....I call it MY PERCEPTION OF REALITY....and....I call this A FORUM....FOR DISCUSSION.....

We can send all the "Discussions/Comments" we want to HBO.....Gumbel will still be hosting his show.....well into the future.....there will be no consequencs for Bryant...
Last edited by LadyNmom
Hey Lady,

I don't think I said it wasn't a discussion board. Maybe I didn't make that clear. But if you want to have an impact on statements that offend you I was giving all the posters an avenue to address them with HBO.

I do not pretend to know the answers to Race in this country but since this is a discussion board I thought I would comment on your post. You are welcome to have your opinions and if your comment is not anger and is as you say "MY PERCEPTION OF REALITY"...well I guess I just feel sorry for you. Would you feel better if he was suspended or fired.

It just seems like you want to even the score and get even for all the white guys that have been fired. I don't think the "caucassions" should have lost their jobs due to their ignorance necessarily. If you want to have an impact write HBO and cancel your HBO subscription and let your Cable operator and HBO know why.

The Pat Robertson's of the world have made plenty of comments about many races and religions with little impact to them personally, besides a few days of newspaper headines that actually strengthens their base and contirbutions come rolling in.

By the way I had the HBO link because I sent HBO a comment after watching the show this morning.

Sure can we post on this Baseball website and complain about it and get angry oops I mean have our PERCEPTION OF REALITY.
Did anybody out there catch the Martin Luther King Day version of "Quite Frankly with Stephan A. Smith". on ESPN2? The discussion was race in sports. He had two guests - one black, one white, each said to be an expert on the subject. They gave kudos to the NBA for not only the number of black athletes, but also coaches and folks in top level management positions, but they were concerned about the number of European basketball players that were strating to filter in. The bigger concern in their eyes, and the one that rocked the walls in our house, was the MLB. According to their statistics, only 9% of major league players are black and that number is shrinking as more hispanic athletes are being rostered. They actually said that 45% of MLB players are hispanic and the number is growing because.... are you sure you're ready for this?.... the MLB wants to have a certain look in order to attract their fan base, and the hispanic players have that look but the black athletes don't. I'm not making that up! Contact the show - see if there's a website where you can read the transcript - it was on national television. One of the two experts said the problem dated all the way back to when black athletes were first incorporated into the white teams because the door was opened to the players, but not to the team owners and managers from the Negro leagues.

Bryant Gumbal isn't the only one making inflammatory comments and getting away with it. Sad thing is that when the coach of the US Air Force Academy's football team indicated that black athletes were better at certain sports, he was da** near crucified.
Mr Smith talks like a guy out of the "hood" and is very opinionated to say the least-- did any of you see the show when he had Bobby Knight on-- Coach Knight took care of business

I liked it better when Rosemary Clooney said "Comeonamy house"--sure sounded more friendly and open the MR Smith's invite

And just so nobody gets the wrong idea my house while my guys were in HS looked like the UN between the foreign kids and the minority athletes that were part of my sons HS which was heavy with minorities who were involved with sports.

The problem in our country today is that in the "PC" effort to make everyone equal they have swung the pendulum the wrong way and now if a white reporter were to speak as Gumbel or Smith do they would be gone.

Sad but true!!!!
There are a number of reasons why the Black Athlete does not play baseball, more reasons than I know.

But a few reasons that I have read, possibly on this website (I don't recall) are as follows:

1- Baseball is disappearing from the inner cities. Washington DC I beleive less than 50% of the High Schools have Baseball programs. Many areas do not have ball fields.

2- The Black youth does not relate to Baseball players, they relate to the Basketball players and the hip hop generation ( a discussion I am far from able to discuss )

3- Scholarship opportunities for Football, Basketball vs. Baseball

4- Academics. Playing for a non-revenue generating sport vs. a revenue sport may have admission variables.

Dear Old Dad writes (his full statement is at the top of the page) "Or should we say that there used to be a lot more blacks involved at all levels of baseball and natural selection has brought about the numbers we see today?"

I think that it would not be a fair statement, considering the high % of Black athletes in Football and Basketball. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems close to saying what Al Campanis was saying.
NoviceDad.....certainly do appreciate you giving us "an avenue to address HBO"....but I think I took care of my HBO addressing in my postings.....also......don't subscribe to it.....

Don't know if you have the answers to race in this country.....as you say....but I don't care.....you are welcome to your opinions too....Also....while I appreciate you feeling sorry for me....save your sympathy.....you no more feel sorry for me than I you.....you are just using it as a cheap shot.....and yes, I think Gumble should have some consequences for his remarks......

Finally....I challenged you to give me some facts.....and you have not....instead you have treated me to another discussion on your feelings, beliefs and what you think.....to include analyzing me personally......well....my turn now.....are you ready for this......

I want you to stop blowing smoke by attacking me.....and give me the facts I asked for.....one name, just one....a non-minority who in the past decade said anything along the lines of Mr. Gumble's comments.....and suffered no consequences......

That sir was the whole point of my posting.....and that continues to be my point....to you....facts, sir....just facts.....
Last edited by LadyNmom
quote:
Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
To: Novice Dad,

How does my comment about natural selection come anywhere close to what Al Campanis said. The two comments are as far apart as two comments can be. You are trying to find something racist in my post even though I said nothing racist at all. You should probably go and look up exactly what Al Campanis said so you can see your error.


Dear old Dad,
"(Blacks) may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager, or perhaps a general manager." -- former Dodger general manager Al Campanis in 1987 on ABC's "Nightline"
he later noted on his comment "When I said blacks lack the 'necessities' to be managers or general managers, what I meant was the lack of necessary experience, not things like inherent intelligence or ability. I was dead-tired after traveling when I went on the show. I got confused. It was like a telegram -- you try to say it in a few words, and it's implied differently."

I think your comment "Or should we say that there used to be a lot more blacks involved at all levels of baseball and natural selection has brought about the numbers we see today" is similar in that it can be miscontrued as Al Campanis feels his comments were.

I am not saying your statement is racist, but this thread I thinks shows how sensitive this subject is. When you say "natural selection has brought about the numbers we see today" what do you mean?

I would also say that as far as your Son's application check Hispanic, there are a number of Scholarships and Grants based on ethnicity that he would be eligible for.
quote:
Originally posted by LadyNmom:
Don't know if you have the answers to race in this country.....as you say....


I said I DO NOT have the answers


quote:
while I appreciate you feeling sorry for me....save your sympathy.....you no more feel sorry for me than I you.....you are just using it as a cheap shot.....and yes, I think Gumble should have some consequences for his remarks......


May be I misspoke, I feel sorry not for you but for anyone that seems to have so much hatered. In regards to Gumble I think he should have to answer for his opinions too!


quote:
I asked for.....one name, just one....a non-minority who in the past decade said anything along the lines of Mr. Gumble's comments.....and suffered no consequences......


I did give you a name of Pat Robertson. Also you may be right Gumble may not have any consequences but I know I just saw the show this morning lets see if there is any reaction.

If you point is that our society is politically correct and that the "majority" needs to be more careful about what they say about the "minority" I agree.

To say that sometimes a minority gets away with saying things with out public rebuke is also correct...but I do not think it helps the cause (whatever it is) if they want to gain a real solution to an issue. That is why Jessie Jackson has no political clout IMO, or why Rev. Al Sharpton is a joke.

The guys noted above have been saying things for years, and have rec'd some public backlash...but most importantly they have become irrelevant, which for them is worse than anything that you or I could do to them.
Last edited by Fungo
I know what you said.....and what do you mean...Pat Robertson....you need to be specific regarding what remarks....if you are referring to his most recent....then need to let you know.....Israel has withdrawn all support, to include funding.... for his proposed missionary goals in their country....and I'd call that consequences....wouldn't you?

My point....you ask? Go back and read my postings.....my point is very clear....and you are not getting it......nor is Pat Robertson....in Israel anyway.......
I don't think much will happen to Gumble, that is why he is on HBO, the uncensored channel. He is given the ok to say what he does. Any of you ever watch Bill Maher? HBO philosophy, you don't like it, don't pay to watch it.

Regardless of Mr. Gumbles' statements being what they are, I think Dear Old Dad was quoting him because he IS wondering, if what Mr. Gumble stated may have some truth as to perceptions of minorities in sports, what would be best in declaring his son's ethnic background.

To answer the question, if your son is being considered for baseball, basketball, football, golf, etc. it doesn't matter what he looks like, what matters is if he can play. Colleges balance their minority percentages in admissions, sport is gender. If your son needs to apply before he signs, your response to the question should be what you have always responded to.
On another note, if your son was applying to a school in Miami, caucasion may be to his advantage, in South Carolina, hispanic. Wink
Last edited by TPM
wvmtner....thank you....pointed that out to Novice Dad in a PM.....there is a difference....and....as we see in ongoing world events.....actions under the banner of religious beliefs are doing their fair share of damage to the world as we know it......but Gumble's case relates to racisim.....and EH....I'm lost....what are you saying? Sorry....I don't understand your posting.....would you please explain.....TPM...you have to get admitted before you can play....and in every part of this country.....minority status tilts the scales......it's called Affirmative Action........
Last edited by LadyNmom
A good friend of mine, a black guy who played in the NBA for 12 years and is now a sports talk show host (and does the color on the Lakers' radio broadcasts in LA) always said that blacks don't do water sports, or frozen water sports.

I always laughed. He is one of the least racist people I know, which makes him a very interesting commentator on race issues. But it's not racist to observe that certain sports have very low black participation, and that black cultural attitudes have something to do with it.

(As I write this I am watching a couples ice-skating routine on the Olympics in which the Germanmale is a black man. Exceptions obviously are everywhere.)

Gumbels remarks were, in my view, mildy stupid. The part about blacks not being in the winter Olympics - lots of reasons for that, almost none due to racism, I think. And of course he had to swerve off the road to malign Republicans by hinting they are racist, which is almost obligatory among the media elite when they open their mouths and say something political.

I've heard a lot worse from the media/entertainment bimbo set. I'm not a Gumbel fan. I find him nauseatingly smug and pretentious. But I seriously doubt whether this comment will bring any consequence to him.
I think racism is unfair and creates hate and distrust in all of us ... I also think Bryant Gumbel needs to keep his racist views to himself. There is nothing wrong with perceiving something differently, it only becomes a problem when you express that perception on national television..... or a message board. I know how things are and if you and I disagree on those issues only I will know it. Wink
Fungo
quote:
Originally posted by Novice Dad:
[
Dear old Dad,

I am not saying your statement is racist, but this thread I thinks shows how sensitive this subject is. When you say "natural selection has brought about the numbers we see today" what do you mean?


Novice Dad, the meaning of my statement has nothing to do with blacks having the "necessities" to play baseball. Blacks have made the choice not to play. They have selected basketball and football as their favorite games to participate in. The arguement that there are more basketball courts than baseball fields so it must be a lack of opportunity for blacks is ridiculous. The truth is that there are many more blacks today with access to a baseball field than there were 50 years ago. There are more middle class blacks now than ever before in this country.

I have no doubt that blacks could be represented more in the Colleges and the Pros if they wanted to be, but they don't. At least not enough of them. Yet Major League Baseball continues to make statements that they need to do more for blacks and throws lots of money at failed projects because blacks have chosen to seek their entertainment elsewhere.

A classic example of the lack of interest by blacks for baseball was at the last Little League World Series. Even though an all-black team was having a lot of success and the games were free Sports Illustrated made the comment that "there were painfully low numbers of black spectators watching". Notice they use the word "painfully" to describe the lack of black spectators. That statement reeks of the same smell as Bryant Gumbel's comment. I guess the L.L.W.S. looked like the G.O.P. convention to S.I. These anti-white comments concern me since I have a son who is serious about continuing his baseball career after H.S.

Since I started this post I did some quick research on the subject of race and college admissions. I learned that more and more whites are refusing to check off caucasian on the application. Instead they are checking "other".
I also learned that if you leave it blank the college will fill it in for you once they have seen you.

I am still hoping to hear more real life experiences on this subject and less attacking of posters by other posters. I concede that this is a topic that can quickly stray from the original thought.
It was an idiotic comment for Gumbel to make. People who want to blame socoiety, or anyone but themselves, for what they deem to be inequalities, or unfairness should start at ground zero(where they're standing) and affect some change. My perception of participation, or non-participation in ANY sport has mostly to do with the individuals home. Something should also be said about the really good athletes walking around who aren't part of any sport, not just a select few sports. My son's high school baseball team last year consisted of 15 kids, 7 of whom were black. All these kids had something that I wish for any kid regardless of race. GOOD HOMELIFE with lots of support. Good kids don't pay that much attention to race when they all act like folks. They just want to play ,and win.

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