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46 replies

Burn out - Injuires - Stress?!?

GunEmDown10GunEmDown101,000+ posts
I had a local 3A senior hit with me twice a week, the entire summer/fall 2007, prior to his senior season in 2008. He has a plus body at 6'02 220lbs, runs a deer and hits it from the leftside. He was a very healthy kid that eats and sleeps baseball. He was a three sport letter winner since 9th grade. He made it to the 3A State final his freshman year, went 4 rounds deep in the playoffs every other year. He never showed any signs of over work or burnout that entire 9 mos. he was with me.

He started his SR season with a ridiculous .700(+) BA, with several HRs and multiple 2B/3B's. He hit a ton all year, finished with a .573 BA and earned several post season honors, made first team all-state and played on the GWTBCA all-star team. Sounds like a dream come true for a BB kid??

He signed to play for a solid D1 JUCO and was a starter all fall in LF. He was playing everyday and was having a good amount of success.

I saw him on October 16th, 2008 at a showcase at Dan Law Field co-hosted by Tx Tech and Ryan Brewer's group from the Albuquerque Baseball Academy. He looked like a totally different kid. He was 25 lbs lighter, pale, and would not even make eye-contact when we spoke.

He quit and left school the first week of November. I spoke with his folks over the Christmas break, he was not sick or injured, not having grade or school problems. He was just sick of baseball. He's totally walked away from the game.

I recognize the difficulty in transition from HS to college and the stress and pressure that can bring. I also recognize that some kids just won't/dont' succeed at the next level, but this kid never showed a hint of this.

I say all that to say this... How do you help your son deal with the physical and emotional stress of playing 35-50 HS games followed by a full summer/fall program with 100(+) more games?

GED10 played in 35 Varsity HS/Playoff games and 120(+) summer/fall games in 2008. It seems the law of averages is going to catch him sooner or later. And a majority of those games were behind the plate, some DH and some 1B. He says he loves it, wants to play everyday, asks to stay long at practice and then volunteers to hit fungo and throw at the JV.

I hate to tell him "no", but it does concern me.

Any thoughts? GED10Dad

angelloves catchers!!
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LB L8 Breaking100+ posts
wow.....

i would be concerned that being "sick of baseball" was not the complete story. alot of kids struggle when they go away to school (homesick, pressure, etc.) but that case sounds extreme. especially the change in his personality. whatever the case it is sad and i wish him well.

i say as long as they want to play, let them play with one caveat....as long as their body can handle the pressure. 100+ games at catcher over the spring and summer, that's a tremendous amount of stress on the knees and shoulder. that would be more my concern than burn-out.......

some southern college coaches have told us that they like midwestern recruits (pitchers in our case) because they find that they actually allow themselves downtime in the winter. i would say make sure that your son gets a complete 4 to 6 week break from the physical part of the game. give his body time to repair and replinish itself.
Last edited by L8 Breaking
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
There may be more to this story than meets the eye -- or there may not be.

Last spring, a freshman at a local D2 started and did wonderfully. He was named Freshman of the Year, then quit baseball. He was simply burned out.

A very knowledgeable HSBBW poster recently told me, "Once in college ball, it becomes more of a job than a game and as my son once told me, essentially every player he knows thought at least once about whether or not they were in the right place, doing the right thing with their lives."
LB L8 Breaking100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:
There may be more to this story than meets the eye -- or there may not be.

Last spring, a freshman at a local D2 started and did wonderfully. He was named Freshman of the Year, then quit baseball. He was simply burned out.

A very knowledgeable HSBBW poster recently told me, "Once in college ball, it becomes more of a job than a game and as my son once told me, essentially every player he knows thought at least once about whether or not they were in the right place, doing the right thing with their lives."


good point in08.....once money becomes involved it can definately change the dynamics of the game. i couldn't fathom walking away from baseball, but we probably all have days where we would love to walk away from our career and do something different......
GunEmDown10GunEmDown101,000+ posts
Absolutely!! No doubt the changes and life lessons that take place when they leave home can be overwhelming.

I was concerned about his mental health and/or substance abuse when I tried to visit with him between games. I know his coach very well, he was clueless and tried to encourage him to stay, but was not successful. It seemed he was headed in the right direction and then something changed. His mates and local buddies say it was more what mom and dad wanted, more than what he wanted. I'm not sure that was the case, but I was only his hitting coach and not as close as those guys were.

As far as GED10, he has had some time off, more like 4 weeks, probably should have been 6-8. And, so far he does all the things to try to stay healthy. They could all use more sleep, but he does take a good vitamin, drinks alot of whole and choc milk. He religously runs foul poles and ices after practice. No other supplements yet and no outrageous lifting workouts.

GED10DaD
angel loves catchers!
Last edited by GunEmDown10
B bbking10+ posts
Is money the issue here? Baseball scholarship is very limited at JUCO/D2. I knew some kids quit because of money. Some kids saw others driving the fancy cars around campus and showing off to the girls, but they can't even afford to pay tuition by playing baseball, that's a very sick feeling. They quit baseball and find a job to support themself. This happens very often at college level.
GunEmDown10GunEmDown101,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bbking:
Is money the issue here? Baseball scholarship is very limited at JUCO/D2.


I don't think money was the issue. He had several college choices, wanted to play and live close to home at a good JUCO program rather than move away.

I know they put alot of time and money into his lessons and summer programs. And, he handled the stress and fame from all the successes he had with a pretty level head.

GED10DaD
DE Double Eagle100+ posts
My son is at a DIII so no money involved, but he has definitely commented on what level of commitment is expected.

I have found over the years that there are days, sometimes weeks where he just shuts down. I was worried about this, it sometimes came right at a time when I thought he should be working extra hard. I have come to trust his clock, his work ethic. He knows when to walk away for awhile, and then he jumps back in full throttle. We don't often mention the mental stress of competing at a high level constantly. It is one thing to long toss or take BP, but when any type of value is ascribed to a workout or game, my son puts out a tremendous amount of mental energy. He has avoided burn out, so far, in part because he takes a walk away from the game from time to time.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
Is it burn out or as BB King once said....."The Thrill is Gone"?

IMHO, Passion drives the soul and the soul rules. Much like the HS crush aka the "love of your life", or a persons infatuation of a particular band, like baseball they are all microcosms of ones life. Why we walk away may be simple for an individual to weigh and justify, but as an outsider we never really understand, especially if that area is a passion of ours. One thing for sure though, the person who is putting it behind them has a reason, we might not understand, but we don't exist in his/her head.

I'll bet there's not a person reading this that at some point in their life decided to make a change in direction that caught others off guard wondering, WHY? . Many will call it quitting, some will say burnout, some will say lost passion, but few will say good luck.

I for one hope that he issue is that he has lost the passion for the game and not something else going on in his life. If so, that is for him and his family to figure out and resolve.
Last edited by rz1
MN-MomMN-MomHSBaseballWeb Owner
I also wondered if there could be more to the story, when you mentioned that the player who you had spent a lot of time with in private lessons couldn't look you in the eyes a year later. I hope that it was simply a tough adjustment period for him, and that there is not something more serious going wrong in his life. Very best wishes to the young man.

Julie
Last edited by MN-Mom
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
quote:
Why we walk away may be simple for an individual to weigh and justify, but as an outsider we never really understand, especially if that area is a passion of ours.


So true....

Reminds me of an email I got a while back:

"My best friend in high school was a 6'4" 225lbs All-City tight end with grades good enough that the Air Force Academy and Rice were talking to him. Unlike a lot of kids, his parents were able to pay for his entire college without much problem. He ultimately decided he would rather just attend his first choice in schools as a student rather than another school as a student-athlete. This didn't make any sense to me at the time, because I could only dream about playing football beyond high school. I'm sure there were times when he questioned his decision. However, I talked to him about it many years after the fact and he didn't seem to regret the decision. Now that I'm older, I can understand why he wanted to be able to focus on school and enjoy the experience of attending college."
AM AL MA 08100+ posts
WOW! (to quote L8B). I have heard several stories about burnout and talked with other Dads/Moms about it. Everyone is concerned about it but no one really had any idea how to keep it from happening. This may be one of those things that is out of parents' hands?

I was really concerned about it with my son going into a high level program with huge demands and competition with very high academic standards to boot. Was this going to be too much stress? Can he handle it without getting burned out?

Well this is a work in process and so far so good! But what I have seen so far is that the boys on the team really support each other. They are very tight and really enjoy each other on and off the field. They are into each others head in a big way and communicate even when they separate during vacations and long weekends when they are away from school.

Does this keep burnout at bay? I sure hope so!
C casey75100+ posts
As the parent of a pitcher, this is something that has concerned me not just from a mental aspect but physical as well. We have encouraged our son to take time off, and in this past year he has for the first time since he was a young boy actually taken a season off. This past fall he did not play. He agreed that after playing in the spring and summer, he could benefit by focusing on conditioning and working on mechanics and come into his last season in high school well prepared and more rested. He will likely pitch a high number of innings this spring, so is also considering not playing this summer so that he will come into the first fall of his college season knowing that his arm will not have been overused. In that case, he would use the summer to again focus on conditioning, long-toss and mechanics. Hopefully this would reduce the chances of burnout or overuse. If he feels he does not want to give up the chance to play this summer, I guess we'll just look to limit his pitching to a reasonable amount that will allow him to be strong for the fall. His college coach indicated that they have had recent incidences of pitchers coming into the fall with tired arms, so that is something we want to avoid.
LB L8 Breaking100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by casey75:
I guess we'll just look to limit his pitching to a reasonable amount that will allow him to be strong for the fall. His college coach indicated that they have had recent incidences of pitchers coming into the fall with tired arms, so that is something we want to avoid.


i think that's a good approach. our summer coach observes strict pitch limits and requires 4 to 5 days rest. we also only play 35-40 games and tend to be more selective about the tournaments we play. for instance our 17 year old will have a 75 pitch limit with a minimum of 4 days rest. is that something your summer coach can do?
C casey75100+ posts
L8B - We are not actually sure where he would play this summer if he does play, so not sure what the coach's philosopy would be. That's another reason why I would be concerned about summer ball. In the past he has played legion ball in the summer as he preferred to play with his school teammates. But our high school doesn't allow graduated seniors on the legion team...they use it as development for next year's varsity players.
tigercubtigercub10+ posts
I don't think you can get any HS player prepared for a 130+ games in a year. No matter what position. That is too many game in my opinion. I do not believe they are physically or emotionally ready.

Does anyone practice down there? Practice time give the players time to correct mistakes without pressures from the game.
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:

A very knowledgeable HSBBW poster recently told me, "Once in college ball, it becomes more of a job than a game and as my son once told me, essentially every player he knows thought at least once about whether or not they were in the right place, doing the right thing with their lives."


That's why my son made up his mind in his junior year in high school he wasn't going to play college ball. He got the showcase invites but turned them down. He said he didn't want baseball to become a job and knew that's what it would be in college. He played because baseball was fun. He did it on his own terms. It was probably why he was often able to deliver the big hit or get that key RBI in pressure situations got moved from batting 6th to 3rd from about 1/4 way thru the season to the end and never feel the pressure because baseball was a game to him. He played loose and made good decisions on the field. When it was over, he went on to college and hasn't looked back. He's enjoying college and getting good grades. Not a bad deal.
Last edited by zombywoof
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Double Eagle:
My son is at a DIII so no money involved, but he has definitely commented on what level of commitment is expected.

I have found over the years that there are days, sometimes weeks where he just shuts down. I was worried about this, it sometimes came right at a time when I thought he should be working extra hard. I have come to trust his clock, his work ethic. He knows when to walk away for awhile, and then he jumps back in full throttle. We don't often mention the mental stress of competing at a high level constantly. It is one thing to long toss or take BP, but when any type of value is ascribed to a workout or game, my son puts out a tremendous amount of mental energy. He has avoided burn out, so far, in part because he takes a walk away from the game from time to time.


You have to teach yourself when to turn it on and when to turn it off. Good for your player.

Do you think that this is the only player who ever walked away from baseball once they got to college? There are many who realize that the effort they are putting into something they don't enjoy anymore might be better spent doing something else.

Whatever the reason, and we don't know, he made the decision. Perhaps he just didn't love it as much as everyone thought. Perhaps when you saw him he was going through the emotional stress of deciding what to do. After all, lot of people help support a player and they don't want to let them down.
We told our son years ago, whenever you are ready to gve it up, don't worry about us, it's your life, not ours. Sometimes our kids do things to make us happy and don't want to disappoint us.

Do players burn out, yup they do, that's why we always limited ours when younger and them let him move he full steam ahead until september of his senior year after he committed and took the fall off. Then another rest right before college (he played but he sets limits with his coach), summer off first year in college.
W Will1,000+ posts
We constantly here about burn out. Well how much is too much. We hear of the pitch count controversy. way back there was a season for playing football basketball baseball. Now for some it is 24/7 for all and the kid is pressured to pick. the kid wants to play baseball in the spring but the football coach wants him in the weight room or in a passing league or the basketball coach wants him playing in a spring and summer league. he wants to play football but the baseball coach wants him to play in a fall league. Well you get the idea. take baseball for example. Seems like today some kids play spring high school summer(legion babe ruth aau select etc etc) fall and sometimes traveling to florida to play in tournaments in Jan and feb. Say this boy is a pitcher. We have heard those on this site talk about a kid throwing so many pitches in a game well how many pitches in a year.

when is enough enough not just for baseball but for every sport.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
Obviously burn out is more of a mental thing than a physical one.

Similar to what Zombywoof stated, it might be the kids who worry about every at bat, every swing or pitch nuance and every scout in the stands are more apt to burnout. Throw in a parent who consciously or unconsciously puts more pressure on the player and the odds go up. IMO.

We should all keep an eye on our player and ourselves to find ways to reduce pressure.
DB Danny Boydston1,000+ posts
I think things change as you move up the ladder.
In little league kids played baseball because it was fun, it was a Summer thing and because their friends did it. No pressure.

Next there was select and you played because you had talent, you had thoughts of the next level and maybe because of a little nudge from the parents. Still having fun. Little Pressure.

Then comes high school. You play for your school. You play because you really do want to play at the next level. You think or you have been told by someone (parents or friends) that you work hard you might have the talent to play at the top level. Hard work has taken a little bite out of the fun. More pressure to perform.

Then for the fortunate ones it's off to the next level. In my opinion, here is where you better be able keep from having the hard work, the job atmosphere take over the "having fun" part of the game. A ton of pressure. I think so many have had so much pressure put on them by themselves, their parents and others that "the fun" is replaced and they just get tired of it mentally.

I think the ones who have placed or has someone place high expectations on them are the ones who "burn out" the most. In our case, we as parents understand at what level our son will probably be done as does he. He is at this level because he has some talent, but more importantly he continues to have a tremendous amount of FUN and in my opinion, as long as the fun outweighs the hard work and pressure, you continue the ride.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by fillsfan:
Obviously burn out is more of a mental thing than a physical one.

Similar to what Zombywoof stated, it might be the kids who worry about every at bat, every swing or pitch nuance and every scout in the stands are more apt to burnout. Throw in a parent who consciously or unconsciously puts more pressure on the player and the odds go up. IMO.

We should all keep an eye on our player and ourselves to find ways to reduce pressure.
This is why for the most part I only tell my son to have fun. The only time I deterred from this approach was when he went through an attitude and lack of work ethic phase for a while last year. I told him I wouldn't pay for travel the next season unless I saw the appropriate attitude and effort. I failed to recognize he was burnt out from playing three high school sports, being involved with travel baseball ten months of the year and practicing basketball as often as he could. Oh yeah, homework! He came out of it. He's only playing two sports this year. The passion is back stronger than ever.

What parents have to understand is all the money they pay for travel may not have a return on investment. It should be paid because the player loves and respects the game and will put in the effort to go as far as he can. But from observing USSSA level travel from 11U to 16U so far, I believe there are a lot of financially, emotionally and time-wise overinvested parents who expect return on investment by means of the kid playing college ball and getting a scholarship.
Last edited by RJM
P pfbear13100+ posts
These comments are not directly associated with this post, but I think "Burnout" is used way too often to describe players quitting any sport. I think it's more the fact that most players have to really start working at something they never had to before and are unwilling to do it.

The talent gets better and better every step up the ladder and many people, athletes or not, are not willing to put in the time and hard work it takes to succeed as they move up. It's very difficult for an 18 year old HS "stud" to all of a sudden be just 1 of 5 OF or 1 of 4 MIF.

I always explain to my son that all the extra work he did in HS paid off with his scholarship, but every other player on his team and in his conference put in the same work in HS-that's why they are playing in college.

Now that everyone is practicing 5-6 days/week, he needs to do more to work "hard". The team practice time, lifts, and workouts are enough to maintain your level (and grow with coaching) but that does not constitute working extra hard as every college program in the country is putting in the same hours.

I guess the point I'm attempting to make is that too many people claim burnout when it's many times just an unwillingess to do what it takes to succeed as the stakes get higher.
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by pfbear13:

I guess the point I'm attempting to make is that too many people claim burnout when it's many times just an unwillingess to do what it takes to succeed as the stakes get higher.


I would agree with that. Even though my son wasn't planning on playing college ball, he never minded putting in the hours of conditioning, hitting and fielding practice because when he played, he wanted to make sure he was ready and prepared. In fact, when he came home from a short practice, sometimes he'd say it was kind of a waste because he felt like the team didn't get to work on things that needed to be corrected. Had he done it just for the sake of doing it for all the wrong reasons, it's likely he'd have been "burnt out" going thru the motions.

As they go on past high school, they have to really want to play the game that bad and be comitted because anything less and it'll never work.
redsox8191redsox8191500+ posts
I went through a "burnout" stage with my son last summer. I unfortunatley handled it horribly Frown . Thankfully we laugh about it now!!

He was playing school ball (middle school) and AAU as well as Babe Ruth. Babe Ruth started right as the school season was ending so he had games or practices almost every night, sometimes 2 in one day. Well Summer rolled around and Babe ruth all-star time was approaching and he decided that he wasn't going to play on the team, that he'd rather take the time off. I being an "idiot" bereated him for his decision. Of course in hindsight I realized I was upset because I enjoy watching him play and hanging with the parents etc and didn't realize the mental toll playing on so many teams was affecting him. Also because of Ripken All-stars he had missed a few vacations fishing up in Maine with his grand parents and really just wanted to shut it down for a week and just go fishing which he loves.

Well it was the best thing as it taught me to not "live" for his baseball as I had been and it showed him that there are times in the schedule that he can shut it down for a week or two in August as our travel team shuts down to allow for family vacations etc. He has recharged his baseball battery and is very focused and looking forward to the upcoming season, including Babe ruth All-stars that he wants to compete on this year. He will go fishing with his grandfather in August and during the days in the summer as his grand father in now retired.

Kids do get burnt out and sometimes just stepping back a bit is the best thing for them to take a deep breath and get a fresh perspective on the game they love. (and teach their parents a thing or two in the process at times )
Last edited by redsox8191
M mcphesh10+ posts
My son is freshman playing NAIA level. He's struggling with grades and the pressure to not only play varsity but the jv games as well. I support him if he wants to walk away. He won't ever go past college ball and he knows that. My concern is what about the scholarship money he accepted. What if he walks away this year, takes a break and wants to come back? Does he give up his eligibility? I want him to be truly informed before he makes such a momentous decision on his own. He hasn't talked to his coach yet because he doesn't want to let anyone down. I'm just his mom, I've never played the game in my life just watched from the bleachers so I don't know how to help him with this.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
And what about that college pitcher last year that left college as a freshman to join the Army. He was still successful, just not enjoying the game any longer.

There's plenty of accomplished people in this world that once thought they had it made and are now unhappy with their situation, although the situation hasn't changed a bit, just the person.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
mcphesh,
I'm not aware of direct answers to your questions, especially what would happen to the this year's scholarship money.

I speculate that the scholarship has already been paid, was based on previous achievements, and isn't affected by what happens now. In principle, collegiate athletics aren't a job! I also speculate that a player who withdraws from a team has remaining eligibility, although he may not be welcome on the team he withdrew from.

You could call the NAIA without disclosing your identity or college. Perhaps they can help.

NAIA Rules Hotline: 816-595-8180
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
I could be wrong (OH NO Big Grin). I suppose there are some who really do burn out. You people have given some good examples.

However, I wouldn’t call someone preferring one thing over another as being burn out. If I like baseball more than football, did I burn out on football? Maybe the example based on success alone wasn’t entirely accurate.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
FWIW,

Would this be described as burn out? Just asking!

BTW, Huge Barry Sanders fan here! He should have held all the records!

quote:
Several years after retirement, and repeated refusals to discuss the abruptness of it, Sanders finally admitted that the culture of losing in the Lions' organization was too much to deal with even though he said that he could still play. He explained that it robbed him of his competitive spirit, and he saw no reason to believe things were going to improve. He also stated that there were tears in his eyes as the Lions lost the final game of his career the season before he left, because he knew in his heart he was never going to play another NFL game - "I sobbed for 3 months."
L LHPMom2012100+ posts
infield dad,

I read those articles about the basketball player, too. Sounded to me like it was more about her homesickness and missing her sister than being burnt out. I bet she finds her way back to her sport.

As for this young man, a 25-pound weight loss sounds to me like something is horribly wrong, much worse than burn-out. I hope he gets the help he needs.

LHPMom
DB Danny Boydston1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
Leave it to DB to "snow on our parade" by finding a perfect example, and maybe one of the only examples.

Stop it! Smile

PG, I would argue that when you have "lost the competitive spirit" you have hit some sort of burnout stage. It could be burned out from losing which it sounds like to me, but that is something that could have been changed. I'm not sure if we know the whole story, but I would be willing to bet that football burnout had a lot to do with it. JMO
Last edited by Danny Boydston
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