Like JH, I am amazed that some people seem to have an issue believing that some hitters actually CAN and DO foul pitches off on purpose. From the time my son started “player pitch” back when he was nine, he has had this two-strike approach drilled into his head – “If it’s close and you don’t like it, foul it off.”
After being rung up a few times by youth umpires while taking pitches well off the plate, with two strikes on him he started fouling off any marginal pitch that had a remote chance of being called a strike. And while his strikeouts dropped significantly (he has averaged less than 10 strikeouts per 100 at bats since he was 11 years old), the unintended consequence was that his rate of BB dropped as well. Because he has the ability to foul off those pitches that are close but that he knows he can’t really put a good swing on, he lives to fight another pitch. And sooner or later, the pitcher makes a mistake and that is the pitch he hammers.
This summer he went up against his first pitcher throwing 90. With a full count, the pitcher threw four pitches in a row that were just below the knee and right on the black (fastballs) or possibly caught a corner of the plate (off speed). Had he put any of them in play, they would have been at best a weak grounder to second. But he didn’t, he fouled them off and lived to fight another pitch. On the 10th pitch of the at bat, the pitcher threw an 86 mph fastball (it flashed on the scoreboard) straight down the center of the plate almost belt high. He lined it right over second base to break up the no-hitter.
Players can and do foul off pitchers on purpose and can be very successful doing so.
Exactly! Well Done KC Dawg!
I think that this is a huge hole in the pure rotational approach to hitting, which many have. Pure rotational is pure power with little ability to adjust for changes in pitch speed or location.
The adjustments in a high level swing are accomplished through the training and use of hands, which in turn require strong wrists and forearms. This is why the rice bucket exercises are (were) so popular with hitters.
Grip strength, wrist strength and forearms are muscle groups overlooked and under utilized by those that teach and preach pure rotational/PCR type hiring mechanics.
The adjustments in a high level swing are accomplished through the training and use of hands, which in turn require strong wrists and forearms. This is why the rice bucket exercises are (were) so popular with hitters.
Grip strength, wrist strength and forearms are muscle groups overlooked and under utilized by those that teach and preach pure rotational/PCR type hiring mechanics.
The reason why fouling off many pitches is considered a good at bat is that with 2 strikes, a smart batter (especially contact hitters) will swing at any pitches that could be close to being called a 3rd strike. This may mean swinging at a bad pitch -- and if you do that, the best you can hope for is a foul ball to extend your at bat (for instance, if you're swing at a pitch 3 inches off the outside part of the plate, you're basically trying to foul it off -- not necessarily put it in play). So, while the batter may not be aiming to hit the ball foul, he is trying to fight off bad pitches with 2 strikes.
Nobody aims to foul off a pitch,it happens when you try to extend an at bat and are forced to hit balls.the sweet spot on the ball is less than a dime in size..nobody aims to nick it foul..lol..
Nobody aims to foul off a pitch,it happens when you try to extend an at bat and are forced to hit balls.the sweet spot on the ball is less than a dime in size..nobody aims to nick it foul..lol..
quote:Nobody aims to foul off a pitch,it happens when you try to extend an at bat and are forced to hit balls.the sweet spot on the ball is less than a dime in size..nobody aims to nick it foul..lol..
Do you choose not to read, or just choose to ignore it?
I'm late to this conversation, but the argument seems strange to me.
OF COURSE good batters can and do intentionally foul off pitches for certain reasons. Pitches that are too close to take with 2 strikes. Pitches that are strikes, but can't be driven.
There are swings that generally will produce foul balls - generally by swinging late.
Good hitters who stay back and have a short path can wait to make the "swing/no swing" decision and when the ball is deep, and is at risk of being strike three, swing late and foul it off.
OF COURSE good batters can and do intentionally foul off pitches for certain reasons. Pitches that are too close to take with 2 strikes. Pitches that are strikes, but can't be driven.
There are swings that generally will produce foul balls - generally by swinging late.
Good hitters who stay back and have a short path can wait to make the "swing/no swing" decision and when the ball is deep, and is at risk of being strike three, swing late and foul it off.
quote:Originally posted by J H:quote:Nobody aims to foul off a pitch,it happens when you try to extend an at bat and are forced to hit balls.the sweet spot on the ball is less than a dime in size..nobody aims to nick it foul..lol..
Do you choose not to read, or just choose to ignore it?
whats your freaking problem jerko? nobody goes up to bat not trying to square a ball up.when they are off the plate they are foul balls..
quote:Originally posted by J H:quote:so he wasnt trying to square up those pitches? just trying to hit the top or bottom of the ball..what an amazing feat when the sweet spot of the bat and ball are less than a dime in size.
Yes.
uh huh.lol
Intentionally fouling off a pitch is not done by intentionally hitting the top or bottom of the ball. It is done by hitting the ball very late in its path.
quote:whats your freaking problem jerko? nobody goes up to bat not trying to square a ball up.when they are off the plate they are foul balls..
I don't have a problem. I understand that when people post answers to things, and give specific examples of how their philosophies and methods have been proven to be successful, I don't respond with useless arguments against their point. I read and I learn.
Hitters do intentionally foul off pitches. If you don't understand this, I'm really sorry for you. I don't know how much easier this can be laid out on this message board for you to understand.
Rob's description is spot on. It's generally a shorter swing taken very late. I've seen some fouled off when they were almost in the catchers mitt.
I would say this is much easier to do on pitches that are on he outside part if the plate. Inside calls for a much faster decision to either pull it or you really have to get your hands out in front.
Personally I think a big part of my kids ability to do his was from hours of ping pong. No matter how hard or fast my slam, he at least gets the paddle on it. My wife used to get mad at me as I would never let him win at anything. He started beating me at ping pong around 10 or 11. Now he's almost 16 and beats me a almost everything. Funny part is my wife doesn't get mad at him for it
.
I would say this is much easier to do on pitches that are on he outside part if the plate. Inside calls for a much faster decision to either pull it or you really have to get your hands out in front.
Personally I think a big part of my kids ability to do his was from hours of ping pong. No matter how hard or fast my slam, he at least gets the paddle on it. My wife used to get mad at me as I would never let him win at anything. He started beating me at ping pong around 10 or 11. Now he's almost 16 and beats me a almost everything. Funny part is my wife doesn't get mad at him for it
.
Each year [30 years] when our American High School players travel to Japan, Korea, China and Australia. The hitters are trained to "spoil" pitches that they cannot hit effectively for base hits or to produce runs.
The Japan National HS team was superb, including 5 MLB players. Hitters need to self- train
this reflex action.
Delmon Young age 16, when he played with our American Goodwill Series teams, made a great catch at Long Beach Blair Field in right center. I ask Delmon how did he make this catch.
"I knew that the left handed Japanese hitters swing late on a pitch w/ 2 strikes and I was in "motion" before the pitch hit the bat".
Can this be taught? Maybe.
Bob
The Japan National HS team was superb, including 5 MLB players. Hitters need to self- train
this reflex action.
Delmon Young age 16, when he played with our American Goodwill Series teams, made a great catch at Long Beach Blair Field in right center. I ask Delmon how did he make this catch.
"I knew that the left handed Japanese hitters swing late on a pitch w/ 2 strikes and I was in "motion" before the pitch hit the bat".
Can this be taught? Maybe.
Bob
Interesting. That hasn't been our experience. Our instruction has been, for lack of a better explanation, geared towards putting the perfect swing on the perfect pitch, understanding of course there is no such thing. It is a method of practice. There has always been the acknowledgment that adjustments have to be made, that the entire body must be strong and supple, and that sometimes a single will be the result. My thinking on it is we will end up more efficient if we start with a better swing (perfect) and it degrades from there because of what ever reason than if we start from less than perfect. Something like 25% degradation because of getting fooled (for example) from a 100% swing is better than 25% from a 75% swing.quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
I think that this is a huge hole in the pure rotational approach to hitting, which many have. Pure rotational is pure power with little ability to adjust for changes in pitch speed or location.
The adjustments in a high level swing are accomplished through the training and use of hands, which in turn require strong wrists and forearms. This is why the rice bucket exercises are (were) so popular with hitters.
Grip strength, wrist strength and forearms are muscle groups overlooked and under utilized by those that teach and preach pure rotational/PCR type hiring mechanics.
Anyway, we have never been told that strong hands, wrists, grip aren't important nor that there is no case in which you do not "adjust". "Save me!" swing doubles are still doubles.
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
I think that this is a huge hole in the pure rotational approach to hitting, which many have. Pure rotational is pure power with little ability to adjust for changes in pitch speed or location.
The adjustments in a high level swing are accomplished through the training and use of hands, which in turn require strong wrists and forearms. This is why the rice bucket exercises are (were) so popular with hitters.
Grip strength, wrist strength and forearms are muscle groups overlooked and under utilized by those that teach and preach pure rotational/PCR type hiring mechanics.
I certainly agree with you on this point..pcr is a cancer.it robs a kids athletiscm.when pitching is mediocre you can get away with it for a moment if you happen to get a pitch put on your bat.when pitching becomes better you;ll find yourself on the bench wondering if you should have taken up s****r
quote:Anyway, we have never been told that strong hands, wrists, grip aren't important nor that there is no case in which you do not "adjust". "Save me!" swing doubles are still doubles.
Pure Rotational guys preach that the "Hands are along for the ride" and have no purpose other that to hold the bat. If this is not what you are hearing, then it is unlikely that you are in a "Pure Rotational/PCR" type program, or practicing a "Pure" rotational/PCR approach.
That is a good thing!
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:quote:Anyway, we have never been told that strong hands, wrists, grip aren't important nor that there is no case in which you do not "adjust". "Save me!" swing doubles are still doubles.
Pure Rotational guys preach that the "Hands are along for the ride" and have no purpose other that to hold the bat. If this is not what you are hearing, then it is unlikely that you are in a "Pure Rotational/PCR" type program, or practicing a "Pure" rotational/PCR approach.
That is a good thing!
Well, "Just hang on to the bat and turn" is something we say quite often. I guess it helps to actually work with a guy and get beyond a video clip in order to get meaning. The phrase has a very profound meaning and is quite correct once you truly understand it.
Yea there great at being late to the ball. Hitters tend to beat the pitcher to the spot so In return they fowl off pitchers until they run into one or K. Get in a hitting position early, keep tension off the backside and watch there be less fouls and more hrs
Very poor advice and approach in my humble opinion.
I suppose you would prefer being early on an ouside pitch and hitting grounders to short stop. Not many OPS numbers come from that approach.
It has nothing to do with being late to the ball, it has to do with squaring up on the ball where it is pitched, or fouling off excellent pitches that break late or are too close to take in 2 strike counts.
Timing is everything! If your not in a hitting positin to hit the ball how can you hit something you can't see. One must sepreate to square to be in a proper hitting position, By being down and early doesn't not mean roll over, it means his ready to to hit. And square it up. If ur lower half isn't in position to hit then Niether will ur top. Ur backside determines the swing path. Approach should be starting and firing. It's hard enough to hit a baseball, why complicate that and start clustering thinking outside, inside, fast, curve ... No. By " trusting it" u eliminate all that so all you have to worry about is just hitting it. But if you can't beat the pitcher to the spot how will you ever make contact. Which is why so many hitters struggle with the inside pitch. They get beat, had they been early and relaxed it would be a different out come.
