Does anyone know if it is even legal for varsity coach to charge varsity players for lessons before or after school?  Would't that be conflict of interest?  I see paying players get more playing time of course.

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Happy one posted:

Does anyone know if it is even legal for varsity coach to charge varsity players for lessons before or after school?  Would't that be conflict of interest?  I see paying players get more playing time of course.

Legal or not, any HS coach that feels like he should be charging his players during the season for "extra work" has no business coaching HS sports.  Offseason maybe...but still a little iffy in my mind, but in season, that's ridiculous

I can never see where a HS coach should charge his own players in season or out of season.  He may charge younger players or players from other schools but not his own.  Huge conflict of interest and red flag.  I'm willing to be there is no rule against it other than during the dead periods where there can be no contact but that is not during season.  Just wrong morally.

Happy one posted:

Does anyone know if it is even legal for varsity coach to charge varsity players for lessons before or after school?  Would't that be conflict of interest?  I see paying players get more playing time of course.

Its a violation of UIL rules in Texas and is grounds for dismissal.  I have never heard of this happening.

Happy one posted:

Does anyone know if it is even legal for varsity coach to charge varsity players for lessons before or after school?  Would't that be conflict of interest?  I see paying players get more playing time of course.

I agree with others.  As a HS coach, I could never charge kids in my own program.  Seems pretty black and white that it is a conflict of interest and just wrong.

I often like to present the other side of the coin for consideration, though.  I will say that I have seen exception scenarios that weren't so black and white.  For example, I have seen good baseball guys (with great backgrounds and teaching methods) that give lessons at training facilities and then, at some point, cave in to requests for help at the local HS.  But, they still rely on lesson money as part of their income and the typical coach stipend is not going to make up for that lost $.  So, they continue with their lessons when they can and those already coming to them continue to do so.  In this instance, you probably wouldn't want to chase away someone like that from the HS staff, would you?  

Our area was hit particularly hard with baseball HC turnover this past year.  In many cases, it was due in part to parent groups constant complaints, valid or otherwise.  In many cases, the alternatives have already proven to be a big step backward.  Sometimes, you have to be careful what you wish for and what you choose to complain about.

Again, I'm not saying it's right.  Generally, it can create a mess.  But, as a parent, choose your battles and find the right perspective.  There are many who come here with the problem that the coaches know very little about the game and won't put in any extra time to help the program, team and players get better.  If several of the players are spending time outside of normal practice time working on their skill set via private instruction, that is making them and the team better, regardless of who they are getting lessons from (assuming decent instruction).  As far as playing time/favorites, despite seemingly infinite debate here, at least nine times out of ten, the best will play.  Be the best.  It is usually not a coincidence that those who continue to hone their skills with extra work and extra instruction are the better players (again, regardless of who the instructor is).

Happened at our school and the coach was fired and forced to payback the money. If the coach is charging his own players for lessons, go to the AD with proof and let him know. A pretty slimy thing to do, edging out kickback from showcases and booster club donations for new equipment that never shows up. Charging extra for something they're already getting paid to do is wild. 

If a coach wants to profit off his players at least start a club team and don't be so blatant about it. 

2022NYC posted:

I see coaches of travel programs get HC jobs in HS. If that is allowed, why not charge for in season lessons because the system is already broken.

A lot of HS coaches coach summer travel ball....don't see anything wrong with that.  In most cases, they aren't coaching their own kids.  In Ohio a HS coach can't coach summer ball with his own players on the team.....but they are free to coach teams made up of kids from other schools

As an FYI, I do charge.  I charge $15 per 45 minutes.  Therefore, I schedule my lessons accordingly.  I do tee work, front toss and I throw live.  I don't have a choice but to charge and I must take players from other schools to meet my AD's rules.  I run a business.  I am entitled to run a business.  I have run this business since 1986.  I do not and never would charge my players during the season.  I give all of you credit for wanting to take your time all summer to go give free lessons.  How about you tell us how many hours per week and how many days you donate per week for free.  I give lessons 2 days a week.  I run 22-26 players through.  In the past few years, I have had to turn down some 20 players each season from various schools and TB teams.  BTW, I also go to other schools and do hitting camps for them.   Finally, I do one "advanced hitting camp" at my school each summer.  That amounts to 45-50 players and is for 3 days.  They come in in waves and I am there all day.  That camp is always a sell out and is the reason I get so many asking to continue lessons.  I guess from the various responses I am pretty evil for doing these lessons.  Heck, I almost feel guilty now for taking the $2,500 dollars they pay me to coach.  Perhaps it would be better for me to stick to fishing and ... during the summer and let these players go to other people for private lessons where they will pay $50/for half an hour.  

I don't have a problem with HS coaches charging for lessons, provided they are outside of normal practice hours.  They get paid $3500 - $4000 to coach for 6 months of work, and make far more giving lessons, so unless they are also a teacher what are they to do to earn a living?  Here in Southern California more and more schools are hiring successful travel ball coaches, and HS baseball is year-round.  If the AD wants to clamp down too hard on this we'll be back to the "biology teacher" coaching the team in his spare time and the better ball players will transfer out.

Seems to me that this thread has taken a left turn.  I understood the original post to reference the issue of a HS coach charging money for lessons given to his own players.  I don’t think anyone has a problem with a HS coach supplementing a teacher/coach salary by giving lessons to players outside his program, coaching a travel ball team in the summer, etc. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:
2022NYC posted:

I see coaches of travel programs get HC jobs in HS. If that is allowed, why not charge for in season lessons because the system is already broken.

A lot of HS coaches coach summer travel ball....don't see anything wrong with that.  In most cases, they aren't coaching their own kids.  In Ohio a HS coach can't coach summer ball with his own players on the team.....but they are free to coach teams made up of kids from other schools

To take even further, 

A team cannot have more than 4 players from the same High school system, or they cannot start practice until the state tournament is complete. That includes middle/jr high school teams. 

My son is coaching the rising Freshmen this summer. He is limited on when he can start practices with them and when they can start playing games. 

Have to ask ....  would you have an issue with the band teacher giving private music lessons?  What about the math teacher charging for SAT prep classes?   Maybe the art teacher?  Each state / district has different rules and standards.  If the payments are above board and disclosed to the AD or Board of ED - and tyhe lessons do not impinge on the time spent with the team - that should be sufficient.  Keep in mind most districts have rules on the number of hours / days per week that you can practice.  I applaud the coaches that run a side business doing what they love and putting extra time in to help the players that want it.  If that coach did it for free.. then he could be in violation of "practicing" over the alloted times.  There is no doubt a few bad apples in every bunch that may give preffered time to certain players over others - and there will be the perception that the playing time is paid for via lessons.  That is the ADs job to oversee and make sure the coach is perfoming his functions competently.  

NewUmpire posted:

Have to ask ....  would you have an issue with the band teacher giving private music lessons?  What about the math teacher charging for SAT prep classes?   Maybe the art teacher?  Each state / district has different rules and standards.  If the payments are above board and disclosed to the AD or Board of ED - and tyhe lessons do not impinge on the time spent with the team - that should be sufficient.  Keep in mind most districts have rules on the number of hours / days per week that you can practice.  I applaud the coaches that run a side business doing what they love and putting extra time in to help the players that want it.  If that coach did it for free.. then he could be in violation of "practicing" over the alloted times.  There is no doubt a few bad apples in every bunch that may give preffered time to certain players over others - and there will be the perception that the playing time is paid for via lessons.  That is the ADs job to oversee and make sure the coach is perfoming his functions competently.  

I don't have a problem with any of this, as long as it is outside of normal practice hours.  It's one thing to have office hours to provide extra help  in math, etc for whoever wants to drop by, or for a coach to stay late and throw extra batting practice or hit additional ground balls.  But a private lesson at 7pm for one kid (who happens to play for the HS team)?  I don't see any reason why this should be a freebie for the kid.

Like I said earlier, times are changing and HS baseball, at least in Southern California, is trying to up its game and compete with travel ball.  It is now year-round and many good HS programs are coached by guys who also run travel organizations.  The ADs want to win and this is one of the accommodations that is being made to get good coaching.

BishopLeftiesDad posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:
2022NYC posted:

I see coaches of travel programs get HC jobs in HS. If that is allowed, why not charge for in season lessons because the system is already broken.

A lot of HS coaches coach summer travel ball....don't see anything wrong with that.  In most cases, they aren't coaching their own kids.  In Ohio a HS coach can't coach summer ball with his own players on the team.....but they are free to coach teams made up of kids from other schools

To take even further, 

A team cannot have more than 4 players from the same High school system, or they cannot start practice until the state tournament is complete. That includes middle/jr high school teams. 

My son is coaching the rising Freshmen this summer. He is limited on when he can start practices with them and when they can start playing games. 

Sounds like a stupid and unfortunate rule. What is the reasoning behind that? What happened when Legion was popular out there?

Our town has a local legend(former 1st rounder) who runs a baseball training facility in partnership with a former MLB'er. He is very loyal and helpful to the HS, often letting them use the indoor facilities for free. Also very knowledgeable and talented. I think he would like to coach the HS team, and the HS would be lucky to have him, but it doesn't because of the potential conflict of interest. He has worked too hard to establish his business to divest himself of it in order to be a HS coach, which pays a pittance, comparitively.

 It's our loss, frankly, but I understand why it can't happen. 

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