I am discussing this with a few other guys and I say that that call should not have been made. Cano wasn't so far inside to warrant that to be an interference call. Am I right or am I wrong?
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It is a judgment call --simple as all that---he saw it as just enought to screw up the catchers vision and throw to first
The baserunner's path is completely outside the foul line;Cano appeared to be inside the line. Although our umps here are much better sources, I thought the call was correct --- though certainly one you rarely see called in MLB, kind of like not getting out of the way of a pitched ball.
If you're a Yankees fan, it's picky and looking for an excuse to hose them; for Angels fans, it's finally applying the rules as written.
But it wasn't the only problem the Yankees had....
If you're a Yankees fan, it's picky and looking for an excuse to hose them; for Angels fans, it's finally applying the rules as written.
But it wasn't the only problem the Yankees had....
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
It is a judgment call --simple as all that---he saw it as just enought to screw up the catchers vision and throw to first
So in your opinion was Cano inside and trying to impede the throw from Molina?
The PBUC interps say both feet must be inside the lane, and that the lines are part of the lane. The Yank had both feet outside the lines and thus lane.
And it was pretty stupid on the runner's part. He had to see F3 setting up in foul territory. That should have given the runner every incentive to STAY in the lane and thus legally "interfere" with the throw.
He deserved being called out for being dumb.
Judgement call according to the rules. And personally, I thought it was a tremendous call!
And it was pretty stupid on the runner's part. He had to see F3 setting up in foul territory. That should have given the runner every incentive to STAY in the lane and thus legally "interfere" with the throw.
He deserved being called out for being dumb.
Judgement call according to the rules. And personally, I thought it was a tremendous call!
I agree Texan. I was surprised at the call but it wasn't the smartest baserunning.
quote:Originally posted by lafmom:
I agree Texan. I was surprised at the call but it wasn't the smartest baserunning.
I'll agree that it was stupid baserunning.
Umpire wished to be the show.
Tasmit
I did not say that
What I said is that the umpire apparently saw him do something
Would be great if you didnt try to put words in my mouth nor thoughts in my brain
I did not say that
What I said is that the umpire apparently saw him do something
Would be great if you didnt try to put words in my mouth nor thoughts in my brain
...and the bottom half of the inning showed Molina land in the exact same spot on a ground out.... inside the line 
If he wanted to impede the throw, he would have run at Erstad where he was setting up outside, wouldn't he???
If he wanted to impede the throw, he would have run at Erstad where he was setting up outside, wouldn't he???
The replay showed that Cano was running on the infield grass at one point and didn't even get back to the baseline until he touched first base. It was pretty obvious.
He was clearly outside the box. It wasn't even close. His right foot was on the inside line. The bottom line is he was outside the box. It was the correct call. If Cano had been smart he would have ran outside anyway because the ball was outside. He could have legally impeded the ability of the first baseman to make a play outside by just running in the box. This would have forced the catcher to either step inside which would have taken more time and would have caused him to be safe. Or try to make the throw on the outside without hitting him or making a bad throw. Dont blame the umpire for enforcing the rules. Dont blame the umpire for poor baserunning. As a baserunner anytime you see the firstbaseman set up outside you run outside or at least in the box to the far right side. If the firstbaseman sets up inside you squeeze it on the inside. Sometimes you can get away with pushing it a little on the line. But when you dont you just have to take your medicine. By the way didnt he strike out anyway? If you reach its a gift and if you dont you shouldnt have been there in the first place.
You got it right Texan. He is paid alot of money to know that and been playing a long time.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Tasmit
I did not say that
What I said is that the umpire apparently saw him do something
Would be great if you didnt try to put words in my mouth nor thoughts in my brain
I know that you didn't say that and I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, nor thoughts in your brain. I am sorry that it seemed that way, but that wasn't my intention. I just wanted an opinion not a lecture. And I will hold my thoughts at this point.
Coach May and others, thanks for the insight.
Molina was setup on the outside to make the throw. If he would have thrown the ball where he and the 1st baseman was, instead of throwing the ball inside, the interference wouldn't have been called. JMO.
Of course if Molina had thrown outside where F3 was, the batter would have been out anyhow (assuming F3 caught the throw, which would have been likely).
Good point.
Umpire was out of position to make that call (watch the replays) he was about 20' behind homeplate. Sort of a sidebar, West had words with Cano earlier this season, I remember Cano flipping the bat after a 3-1 pitch was called a strike (commentators mentioned how the vet ump isn't going to take that from a rook) so West got back at him yesterday (as well as the neighborhood call at 2nd earlier in the series),West again. He had to make sure Cano knows who the boss is.
West has always thought he was the show ... I can remember him body slamming someone one the Phillies a few years back while they and the Mets were jawing at each other on the field.
Nobody I know ever said, "let's go to the game tonight West is umping!".
As for Cano, knowing where Molina was throwing from, seeing where Erstad had positioned himself, should have run right at Erstad to impede the throw or knock him on his can.
All that being said, that is not why they lost, they lost because of their inability to hit with runners in scoring position, trying to do too much with each AB. Jeter , as usual, carried his weight in big situations. Can't say the same about ARod, Sheffield, Matsui they have to prove that they know how to win not just feast off of back of the rotation starters and middle relievers.
West has always thought he was the show ... I can remember him body slamming someone one the Phillies a few years back while they and the Mets were jawing at each other on the field.
Nobody I know ever said, "let's go to the game tonight West is umping!".
As for Cano, knowing where Molina was throwing from, seeing where Erstad had positioned himself, should have run right at Erstad to impede the throw or knock him on his can.
All that being said, that is not why they lost, they lost because of their inability to hit with runners in scoring position, trying to do too much with each AB. Jeter , as usual, carried his weight in big situations. Can't say the same about ARod, Sheffield, Matsui they have to prove that they know how to win not just feast off of back of the rotation starters and middle relievers.
And that is I still maintain that ORTIZ is the MVP not AROD
Ortiz comes up big in crunch time while AROD never has, ever !!
Ortiz comes up big in crunch time while AROD never has, ever !!
quote:Tasmit
I did not say that
What I said is that the umpire apparently saw him do something
Would be great if you didnt try to put words in my mouth nor thoughts in my brain
TRhit
TR...looked like he wanted you to give him your opinion, not tell you what your opinion was...sheesh. Always have good information, but seems you look for opportunities to "dress down" others.
Granted A-Rod had a horrible postseason, but if you are going by that, Ortiz and his one rbi (solo shot) didn't exactly light it up either.
quote:Originally posted by njbbdad:
Umpire was out of position to make that call (watch the replays) he was about 20' behind homeplate. Sort of a sidebar, West had words with Cano earlier this season, I remember Cano flipping the bat after a 3-1 pitch was called a strike (commentators mentioned how the vet ump isn't going to take that from a rook) so West got back at him yesterday (as well as the neighborhood call at 2nd earlier in the series),West again. He had to make sure Cano knows who the boss is.
West has always thought he was the show ... I can remember him body slamming someone one the Phillies a few years back while they and the Mets were jawing at each other on the field.
Nobody I know ever said, "let's go to the game tonight West is umping!".
As for Cano, knowing where Molina was throwing from, seeing where Erstad had positioned himself, should have run right at Erstad to impede the throw or knock him on his can.
All that being said, that is not why they lost, they lost because of their inability to hit with runners in scoring position, trying to do too much with each AB. Jeter , as usual, carried his weight in big situations. Can't say the same about ARod, Sheffield, Matsui they have to prove that they know how to win not just feast off of back of the rotation starters and middle relievers.
They were discussing this about Cano and West on Dan patrick's show earlier today.
njbbdad, I agree. The Yank's couldn't get the runs across when they needed to.
FRANK
All season long PAPI got huge hits--AROD got a load of his stats when it was garbage time--in fact he got roasted in NY all season long because of it
All season long PAPI got huge hits--AROD got a load of his stats when it was garbage time--in fact he got roasted in NY all season long because of it
Frank.
Right on.
Vlady wasn't very productive either....
Does that mean he's a loser
njbbdad
Agree with all of your post.
Saw West this summer at Fenway vs. the Angels
call a runner out on an appeal play which was the most unbelievable call I can remember in some time. A tag on a fly ball to Nixon down the line....West called the runner out for leaving early and as Jery Remy said on the review...the kid had time to order lunch and have a cocktail before he left the base.....WOW
Right on.
Vlady wasn't very productive either....
Does that mean he's a loser
njbbdad
Agree with all of your post.
Saw West this summer at Fenway vs. the Angels
call a runner out on an appeal play which was the most unbelievable call I can remember in some time. A tag on a fly ball to Nixon down the line....West called the runner out for leaving early and as Jery Remy said on the review...the kid had time to order lunch and have a cocktail before he left the base.....WOW
It would appear that umpiring at the MLB level is becoming like that on the HS and college level--just plain bad
We had a guy in shwocase tournament event call an INFIELD FLY with no out and a man on second. Trust me I corrected him !!!!
We had a guy in shwocase tournament event call an INFIELD FLY with no out and a man on second. Trust me I corrected him !!!!
Yankees seems to be hexed with these calls.
In the 95 series with Seattle, Joey Cora ran way outside the lines and was called safe by the umpires.
In the 95 series with Seattle, Joey Cora ran way outside the lines and was called safe by the umpires.
For the life of me I couldn't figure out why Erstad was setup in foul territory, reaching across the bag and giving an inside target. Watching the play, I thought that Erstad had a deathwish. My 12yo's would have run him over. I know of at least one Atlanta Brave that would have crushed him. Bad 1B setup and bad base running both. JMO.
Callaway
Give it up a 12 year old bounces off Erstads body
Bottom line for me was total confusion on both sides
Give it up a 12 year old bounces off Erstads body
Bottom line for me was total confusion on both sides
TR
You're right, I was just making a point that Erstad didn't help his catcher on that play. But I promise you that I've got one 12yo that would have made an IMPRESSION! He'll be at your Binghamton Showcase in a few years...(Home).
You're right, I was just making a point that Erstad didn't help his catcher on that play. But I promise you that I've got one 12yo that would have made an IMPRESSION! He'll be at your Binghamton Showcase in a few years...(Home).
Erstad set up exactly where he should have given the fact the ball bounced to the outside of the bag. Not inside but outside. Erstad is Lefthanded so his glove is on the inside. Molina's throw took him to the inside towards Cano who ran on the inside of the box and not the outside. If Cano had ran in the box he would have been hit and would have been safe. West made the right call. There is no way he was out of posistion to make the call because he was standing at home plate looking right down the line. The replays show clearly what happened. Cano bad baserunning by not running in the box squeezing the outside towards the LH first basemans glove. Molina bad throw back towards the runner. Bottom line good call. An easy call because he was out of the box clearly. Didnt he strike out anyway? When you have to start hoping for calls like that to give you a chance to win with over 200 million in pay roll what else can you say?
I respectfully disagree... Erstad is a great defensive 1B but IMO, he had time to set up inside and give a better target. If he had, we wouldn't even be discussing it. JMO.quote:Erstad set up exactly where he should have given the fact the ball bounced to the outside of the bag. Not inside but outside.
Coach May-"struck out anyway" - sometimes justice does get served-IMO everything else is irrelevant, but it does make for interesting
discussion.
I also wondered where the ball was thrown from-hard to tell from the replays I saw.
- sometimes justice does get served-IMO everything else is irrelevant, but it does make for interestingdiscussion.
I also wondered where the ball was thrown from-hard to tell from the replays I saw.
You dont set up inside when the ball is outside. Doing this means the catcher has to throw across the path of the runner from outside to inside. If Molina had moved to the inside in order to make the throw he would never had time to make the throw. If the ball is out in front of the plate or on the third base side then it would have been an inside call. The ball was outside the first base line when he picked it up. This calls for an outside call. That is where he set up and it was the right call. You are right Erstad is outstanding. I did not know that he is the only player to ever earn a gold glove in the OF and INF. The only thing I have ever heard McCarver say that I found interesting.
From an umpires view point the call was 100% correct.
The confussion comes from McCarver's miss interpertation of the rules.Which he is very good at doing.
Correct call.
The confussion comes from McCarver's miss interpertation of the rules.Which he is very good at doing.
Correct call.
Coach May
He setup outside and gave an inside target??? That was my point. It was wrong! If he was going to give an inside target he should have setup inside. I know where a 1B should setup. Good grief. What do you think Molina was thinking? "Great job seting up outside Erstad. How about an outside target next time?" He didn't react to the throw. That is how he setup. I was blown away when I watched the play. It was simply a bad play by Erstad. JMO.
He setup outside and gave an inside target??? That was my point. It was wrong! If he was going to give an inside target he should have setup inside. I know where a 1B should setup. Good grief. What do you think Molina was thinking? "Great job seting up outside Erstad. How about an outside target next time?" He didn't react to the throw. That is how he setup. I was blown away when I watched the play. It was simply a bad play by Erstad. JMO.
OK I see where your coming from now. I did not notice that he gave an inside target. I was not insinuating that you did not know where and how to set up at first. I wonder if the injury to Brian Roberts has anything to do with the guys covering first on bunts etc lately looking a little gun shy? Just a thought.
quote:I know of at least one Atlanta Brave that would have crushed him.
I know of about 40 Braves that would have gladly cleaned Erstad's clock. (And yes, that was a correct call.)
Coach May
After watching different angles of that play today I am rethinking my position. It appears that it was more a reaction to the throw than poor setup. Erstad did appear to move to the outside of the bag and was anticipating an outside throw from the catcher but had to adjust to an inside throw. There was no time to offer a target because the throw left the catcher as he reached the bag. It appeared to me at the time that he arrived at the bag and offered an inside target but I don't think that is what happened. Bad throw. Good 1B. I stand corrected.
R.
After watching different angles of that play today I am rethinking my position. It appears that it was more a reaction to the throw than poor setup. Erstad did appear to move to the outside of the bag and was anticipating an outside throw from the catcher but had to adjust to an inside throw. There was no time to offer a target because the throw left the catcher as he reached the bag. It appeared to me at the time that he arrived at the bag and offered an inside target but I don't think that is what happened. Bad throw. Good 1B. I stand corrected.
R.