Can't score from third, unbelievable!

quote:

"I don't care how one calls it, but that is bad coaching and I will tell my son and others all day long why it was a poor coaching decision."

quote:

The problem I have is the coach doesn't think it is or was his fault. I disagree- bad coaching and I will teach my son and others all day long what we can learn from that situation.

GBM, to read these comments and now learn you are an assistant coach questioning and throwing the baseball decisions of the HC under the bus with your son, his teammates and "others all day long" makes this worse in my mind, not better.
To learn you are the assistant coach throwing the #3 hitter in the order under the bus, and the HC coaching decision to place him in that slot also makes things worse, not better.
In your last post you "preach" "positive reinforcement" while throughout this thread you are literally trashing that #3 hitter as often ending innings, seemingly with runners in scoring position, to the extent of posting that you would have "coached" him to crowd the plate, never swing the bat, and you would have, using your words, "take the bat away from the #3 hitter for this at-bat and give it to the #4 batter with less than 2 outs and let him drive in the tying and perhaps go ahead run."
Pardon me, but I am having a hard time understanding how taking the bat out of the hands of the #3 guy, and talking with your son, others, and this board about doing it is such a positive coaching approach as contrasted with a divisive and undermining coaching approach.
Second guessing that the #4 would have gotten the hit and drove in 2 is what ESPN analysts get "paid" to do.
They are not coaches.
Even then, this board had plenty of posters who detested Joe Morgan because his "paid" analysis came off just like you come off in this thread....EXCEPT you are part of the coaching staff.
Members of the coaching staff do not pronounce they are going to throw a HC and his coaching decision under the bus and tell their son, "and others all day long."
Finally, you have mentioned several times the #3 didn't get the bat on the first squeeze attempt because the ball was over his head. Well, the catcher caught it so one might reasonably expect, in a squeeze situation, the hitter knows he needs to get the bat on the ball. He doesn't need to bunt it fair but he needs to do everything possible to protect that runner, to protect against the out. That is the very essence of the "suicide" aspect of the squeeze.
Are their pitches where putting bat on the ball is almost impossible? Of course.
Had you said the pitch was at his head/behind him, or a pitch out, that might change my thoughts on "poor execution."
Everything you posted says poor execution, twice.
Finally, are there coaches who don't believe in the squeeze? Absolutely. Bruce Bochy is one right her in SF. Are there professional managers who do believe in it? Roger Craig,formerly in SF, would use it morning, noon and night in nearly any situation.
From a pure baseball perspective, using the squeeze is not a "stupid decision" that "everyone" must bow down to your "superior" second guessing, Monday morning coaching.
As JH properly summarizes, and what others also tried to say, it is a decision that can be debated on a message board.
You went far beyond those boundaries, in my opinion. When I just assumed you were a parent, I posted my response to your handling of the situation.
To now learn you are a member of the coaching staff...well, I am speechless for sure.
From my perspective about the integrity and responsibilities of a youth baseball coach, what you have posted in this thread isn't the type of "coaching" I respect or think is deserving of "earning" respect.
I am sorry to be so blunt.
This should have been an issue for and within the coaching staff and no one else, worked and discussed completely and directly, and only, with the HC and no one else, especially not your son, his teammates, and "others all day long."

Sounds like GBM's son was involved somehow in this?

The only reason kids want to quit is because they are not winning and someone put it in their heads it's not fun anymore.

We had a similar situation in HS, assistant coach disagreed with the HC and his decisions, instead of approaching it positively he encouraged the players to go against the HC and ridiculed his coaching. The assistant coach's (and he was good) son had a terrible time getting any program to get interest, and his son was good.

You didn't initially declare that you were going to help reinforce positive but rather that the coach su cked (that's what I got anyway). You changed your mind now that you see no one really agrees with your approach or the outcome of the play.

FWIW, it isn't ESPN, it's HS baseball.

What are you going to do when your son goes to college and you don't like the coaching decision? What will your son do when he feels that the coach has made a wrong decision (it happens even on the big field)? I agree with what has been posted, this should have been a discussion between the coaching staff, not you and the kids, shows that you have NO RESPECT, you think that you do but you have NO CLUE.

You would best serve your son to step back and take the roll as parent at this time. It's his game, not yours, learn to be the observer. It will be in his best interest to do so.

After that happened, my son actually told me that he was done with fallball. GBM

You could argue the appropriateness of squeeze bunt in this situation until the cows come home,and I have no desire to go there. But the above sentence really is a concern. I can not comprehend anyone who loves the game quitting fall ball over the failure to get a run in and losing one game. It's really about development and learning at this age, and the best approach is to just practice hard so you get it right the next time! It's time to move on.

Well, I never intended to get a tongue lashing, just wanted to vent. None of you were there and watched the game and saw what happened. That's fine. I am moving on. Find someone else to trash, thanks.

You know when this thread started I thought it was a parent who paid his $5 and didn't agree with the coach and needed to vent constructively. If that's all it was then there is nothing wrong with that. It's a fan / parent prerogative to do this. As a coach I don't want to take away a fan / parent's right to second guess me because that's part of sports. But the more of the story you tell the more appalled I get. I posted first time as sort of a rebuttal as to why you would squeeze in that situation. As I've said I wouldn't do it but I would understand (usually) why a coach would call for a squeeze there.

You are a coach on that team and you are calling out your players and colleague. While the baseball world is small it's probably a safe bet nobody on your team knows your posting here although I could be wrong. I know this - if you were my asst. coach you would be fired on the spot. I do everything in my power to not let what parents do affect how I deal and interact with their children. I want to let them have a chance to stand on their own feet rather than include them in with their parents. But in this case I would give serious consideration to removing your son from the team as well. Due to the fact that your horrible attitude might have affected him as well. I would have a serious conversation with him and try to gauge if he will be a problem due to having your attitude or if he's going to stand on his own two feet.

With your comment that he's done with fall ball over this then it might be a safe bet he's got your attitude. Be a good case to be removed from the team. Plus, it is one play that failed miserably and if that is what gets him out of his mindset then I need to question his love for the game. ONE setback should never cause someone to want to quit.....unless someone is in the back ground making him think that way.

I'm dumbfounded that you think it's ok to get on here and call out your players and head coach.

Amazing thread...GMB if your still checking in can you answer one question? Was your son the #4 hitter? Maybe I missed it but I have to know after all this hoopla.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
You know when this thread started I thought it was a parent who paid his $5 and didn't agree with the coach and needed to vent constructively. If that's all it was then there is nothing wrong with that. It's a fan / parent prerogative to do this. As a coach I don't want to take away a fan / parent's right to second guess me because that's part of sports. But the more of the story you tell the more appalled I get. I posted first time as sort of a rebuttal as to why you would squeeze in that situation. As I've said I wouldn't do it but I would understand (usually) why a coach would call for a squeeze there.

You are a coach on that team and you are calling out your players and colleague. While the baseball world is small it's probably a safe bet nobody on your team knows your posting here although I could be wrong. I know this - if you were my asst. coach you would be fired on the spot. I do everything in my power to not let what parents do affect how I deal and interact with their children. I want to let them have a chance to stand on their own feet rather than include them in with their parents. But in this case I would give serious consideration to removing your son from the team as well. Due to the fact that your horrible attitude might have affected him as well. I would have a serious conversation with him and try to gauge if he will be a problem due to having your attitude or if he's going to stand on his own two feet.

With your comment that he's done with fall ball over this then it might be a safe bet he's got your attitude. Be a good case to be removed from the team. Plus, it is one play that failed miserably and if that is what gets him out of his mindset then I need to question his love for the game. ONE setback should never cause someone to want to quit.....unless someone is in the back ground making him think that way.

I'm dumbfounded that you think it's ok to get on here and call out your players and head coach.

There is more to the story that I am unwilling to state. It was a thing which had been building for a while. I respect and love the coach and so I am not going there. I told my son in the nicest manner possible that it was a coaches mistake- we all make them from time to time and that even when the chips are way down (other factors which I wish not to communicate) you have to battle and pull your head up anyway.

Thanks though for the dialogue.

So you don't tell us the whole story and aren't willing to. You're start out by saying so and so aren't good or doing their job but then find out you're a coach throwing players / other coaches under the bus....unless part of the story that you're not willing to tell us somehow justifies that. You've taken a stance that your way is the best and only way although several respected people have given you evidence that it wasn't a bad play but a poorly executed one.

Yet with all that you're upset that we don't see your side of things????

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
So you don't tell us the whole story and aren't willing to. You're start out by saying so and so aren't good or doing their job but then find out you're a coach throwing players / other coaches under the bus....unless part of the story that you're not willing to tell us somehow justifies that. You've taken a stance that your way is the best and only way although several respected people have given you evidence that it wasn't a bad play but a poorly executed one.

Yet with all that you're upset that we don't see your side of things????

It doesn't matter what other coaches think on the matter, I know it was a bad coaching mistake and every other person at that game that day felt the same way. I don't know of any reason why with no outs and a pitcher struggling one would want to run a squeeze play in that situation. perhaps that is my own bias and opinion but, I am entitled to that.

What would you say if I told you that I could read the future and that if you were the coach I was to tell you that in the next inning you woul d have bases loaded with a struggling pitcher, no outs, with your best hitter on deck and that not only would no one score, no ball would ever be put into play, and the batter on deck would never get a chance to come to bat? You would probably say "no way- your kidding"

There is no way that you chalk up this situation as anything but a bad coaching mistake and then move on- thats what I did.

Like I said- I am over it- it was a learning experience, and definatley one to write down in the play book as a "don't do that".

GBM, every decision in baseball can be judged as a good or bad decision. Most of what dictates that judgement is based on the execution by the players. Some managers are critized because they "go by the book" too much. Some managers are critized because they don't "go by the book". Some managers are praised because they don't "go by the book".

This is a situation where it sounds like you are trying to "write the book". Not everyone agrees. I think if the players executed the play, everyone would be extatic that you won the game and the coach was willing to take a chance. Personally, I don't think it was a big chance to take with a hitter who has been struggling and making the last out of the inning on numerous occasions.

Sounds like you are questioning everything about this coach. Not only did you not like his decision to call the squeeze, but you also stated "If it was me, I would have had the #4 batter in the correct #3 batting spot and then had the hitter try to hit a sacrafice fly. If he would have failed at his job, then I would maybe attempt a suicide squeeze with one out." You don't like how he makes up the line-up either. I have been involved with baseball for a very long time and I don't know if I've ever heard anyone coach a player to hit a sacrafice fly. That's usually just something that happens.

If you are this unhappy with the coach and your kid is so unhappy with this team, why are you still playing there? If it was me, I would be teaching my kid about better lessons in life and baseball than "the coach made a mistake". It's really not as cut and dried as you are trying to make it.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I'm dumbfounded that you think it's ok to get on here and call out your players and head coach.

Probably because he thinks no one knows who he or his son is. The baseball world is real small, REAL, REAL small.

GBM- I have an honest question that I have a feeling a few people here are wondering as well. What exactly was your true intention when you wrote the OP and the follow-up posts?

I just needed a place to vent. I am over it now. I am moving on. If the rest of you feel like beating a dead horse into the ground or just want to continue go ahead. i am done with it. You guys weren't there. You don't know the whole situation but anyway, thanks for the feedback, some of which was positive.

OK, but I can't help but notice that you pretty much rebutted or replied to every post on this thread except the one from fillsfan...

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
OK, but I can't help but notice that you pretty much rebutted or replied to every post on this thread except the one from fillsfan...

I spoke with fillsfan in a PM. thanks for noticing though.

oh my.... uhhhhh... mmmm... oh my.