Cardinals hacked Astros?

huh?  

Jeff Luhnow isnt just smart, he is genius smart.

You must be a cardinal fan?

Do you know him or have you ever spoken to him?

He drafted my son when he was with the cardinals, my sons description of him, NO ONE, NO ONE is as brilliant as Jeff Juhnow.

TPM, the statement about passwords is from the FBI.  Also, just listening to KMOX Radio.  It seems that the Cardinals have been working with the FBI for 4 months or better on this issue.  Also, if KMOX sources are accurate, it was mentioned that the Cardinals are, in fact, asking to see if proprietary content was taken from the Cardinals and used to develop the database the Astros are using.  If so, Luhnow is in a lot of trouble.  KEEP IN MIND that this is just a rumor at this point and should be taken with a grain of salt until evidence surfaces. 

Oh, left this out.  One piece of speculation by talking heads here in St. Louis is that if Luhnow took the database itself from St. Louis, it would have the same passwords.  However, and again, speculation and so, no evidence on this.  Still, it made for great discussion on sports radio.  LOL!

The Cardinals are not every employer.  Maybe you are not aware of the shenanigans that have gone on in the NFL recently.  I am a lifelong Atlanta Falcons fan, and they were held accountable for the actions of their employees.  By the way, the Patriots were too...

That's how I'd play it if I were the Cardinals too.  Shame the victim. Beautiful!

Ryno, what does the NFL have to do with this?  The Cardinals aren't every other employer?  I guess they aren't then due "Due Process."  Hell hang um and hang um high.  Shame the victims?  Shame them how?  If he walked out with the Cardinal's stuff, then isn't that a crime?  You jumped to the conclusion that the Cardinals are guilty and I stated that, at this point, there isn't any evidence of that and so, everyone should wait to see.  Somehow, you have a problem with that.  If proprietary information was taken from the Cardinals and they do have a right to ask, then who is the victim?  Even when I stated that, I mentioned that this is a "rumor" at this point and so should be taken with a grain of salt.  You vent against the Cardinals.  Man, you really hate the Cardinals don't you?  That's ok. 

I am fully aware that the cardinals have been "working" with the FBI.

Listen, I have no dog in this fight, even if the Astros took proprietory info, then its ok to hack into the Astos database? That is justifiable.

The NY Times reported a rumor? Why would Luhnow take the STL database with him? What for?  He couldnt figure out how to find prospects on his own? This is not about taking a database this is about someone hacking into the Astros. Everything else is a smokescreen to cover up someone elses wrong doing.

It has nothing to do with hating the Cardinals.  I fully believe they are guilty of this offense, and I think I will be proven right.  Time will tell...

Here is an article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch.  Note again, that not one bit of evidence has been presented against the organization itself.  Still, this represents the bitterness that is out there against the Cardinals.

http://www.bnd.com/sports/mlb/...article24712852.html

Ryno, believe me when I say I believe you when you say that you believe that they are guilty.  I'd asked for the evidence that has been presented or that you are privy to that gave you this belief.  To this point, nothing has been presented here in St. Louis.

Edited to add:

If this is proven true, then the Cardinal's reputation will be destroyed.  Then again, even if innocent, it is being destroyed. 

Coach...stl dipatch, Kmox? Come on these people make their living from the cardinals!

Ok...I can't resist so I am going to wade in with some conclusions -

1) Luhnow replicated in Houston what he was doing in St. Louis - after all that was what he was hired to do.

2) Somebody(s) in St. Louis either for personal or organizational reasons saw the Astros building under Luhnow and made an effort to find out what the Astros had on player evaluations.  Since they were obviously familiar with Luhnow they had some idea of what they were looking for and ways to get at it.

3)  The Astros were able to see that their systems had been tampered with and took it as a serious threat and called the authorities.

4)  FBI looked at what was there and determined there was enough to pursue a real criminal case.

5)  At this moment the FBI has not concluded if and against whom criminal charges will be brought against - but it is reasonable to bet that unless someone takes the fall it will creep up the food chain assuming Cardinal equipment and personnel are involved.  Think Watergate - What did you know and when did you know it?  So who are the ball boys in the Cards organization?  Expect them to get blasted.

6)  The Cardinals figuring a good offense is the best defense are accusing Luhnow of stealing methods for player evaluation and deploying them in Houston.  The FBI will have to investigate the legitimacy of this claim.  If his Houston database and evaluation methods look close to what is going on in St. Louis then depending on his employment terms in St. Louis he probably will have some pointed questions to answer.  He could end up getting a pretty solid punch in the nose but will survive it.

7.  Even assuming this ends up with people losing jobs, fines and criminal convictions for the average baseball fan it is Deflate Gate writ large.  It will not matter to the masses.  The only people that care are a limited number of people that are paying attention to the details of how things actually work.  After all Bank of America took all that money from the taxpayers and spent it on bonuses for fat cat executives.  Too bad the fact is they paid it back with interest and the country made money on the deal.  And that doesn't include the billions in fines taken in.

FWIW I have to confess that to me this is the most interesting thing that has happened in MLB this year.

TPM, point well taken and the NY Times is a _____  ________  _____ rag that ...  but I'm a conservative and I have to keep that in mind.  So, maybe they cancel each other out.  It is what I have to go by here.  If you have some other source that is presenting evidence then, by all means, please present that evidence. 

Sadly TPM, I am an A's fan (but on the plus side, also a Giants fan!).  I have no dog in this fight either.  Even brilliant people make mistakes and take things for granted.  If Luhnow did indeed copy the database and take it with him, the account info for the old users would have to be manually deleted or it would remain there.  If that were the case (as cited by the NY Times article), it wouldn't take much to gain access, especially if there was an active link to the database on a web page. 

Evidence?  When it is found, then I and all others will have to abide by it.  This is speculation and would make a great book if you decide to write one.  BTW, this happened in 2013 so the Astros organization was so success back then that the Cardinals had to steal notes from an organization that, in 2013 lost 100 games.  LOL

I'll leave you guys alone and let you hate.  I am also curious as to what the fact really are.  The Cardinals can't win in this situation anyway.  They have been convicted in the court of public opinion and so they are guilty regardless.  I might mention a few cases like this in the recent past but what good would that Duke. 

We'll see.  Could be you are right the FBI investigates for a couple of years and does nothing.  Not sure how Duke plays in here especially without an overly ambitious incompetent DA leading the charge in a racially charged sex crime.  This seems a little more sedate to me. 

As for your other point Houston won't be losing 100 games again anytime soon.  But forget about Luhnow at least he is out of your division now....it is Theo and the Cubbies you Cards have to be keeping your eyes on.  For the first time in 100 years they have competent ownership, player evaluation, manger on the field plus players that can play.  They have deep pockets and will be a force for the next decade.  But the proof of that will be in the standings....eventually. 

Full disclosure as a long suffering NY Mets fan it really doesn't matter to me very much because Wilpon is the real villain in MLB.  I rate him with Hannibal Lector - as the cannibal of baseball hope. 

Luv, I used Duke because the media furor that ensued and then all was proven to be wrong. 

BTW, for the sake of being even keeled on this, one news station just reported that there is "proof" that this goes at least to mid management.  However, no names were released and no sources revealed.  So, more speculation to gain viewership or sell papers. 

I didnt realize that this whole thing went down last summer until I read this. 

Anyway, for those of you who say Luhnow used the same passwords, here is Luhnows comment.

http://t.co/Y9KeaaEF31

if link doesnt work its on si.com

In other news, KC fans are apparently trying to fix the All Star balloting with millions of spam votes.

http://deadspin.com/report-mlb...roper-all-1712468973

These kids today...

Oh, Mr. Manfred, time to get rid of that asinine Selig rule about the AS game determining home field advantage in the WS, doncha think?

Funny, deadspin really does a good job at sarcasm.

So here is the question, how do you determine who is the home team? 

Subsequent years? We had a discussion once about best league record, but with the DH and all, that could give the AL a fairer advantage.  

Suggestions? 

There is no good solution, just a least bad solution.  I'd go back to alternating years. The worst thing about the Selig solution is that it was never meant to be fair.  It was meant to keep players interested in the AS game.

Fair enough, with the point being until someone is guilty then they are not. 

I still think this is very different though.  That one hit the headlines with a DA holding press conferences on the steps of the Court House etc.  before any real investigation had taken place.  This deal has the FBI which is the best Law Enforcement the US has apparently well into an investigation.  Since the FBI have not commented publicly that I know off we are left with the 2nd hand "leaks".  We'll eventually find out how accurate any of it is. 

And to be fair again as you point out agenda's should not be ignored.

Won't the Astros be pissed when they have to play the 7th game of the Series in St. Louis because the AL lost the all-star game because the line up was packed with undeserving KC Royals......

I agree with what you have stated, we wont know until the FBI comes out with their conclusion.

That's why I don't get why so many Cardinal fans keep stating it was the Astros fault. And Jeff Luhnow never changed his passwords, and Jeff Luhnow stole the Cardinals databasebase, etc, etc.  I am also waiting for them to blame it on the Cubbies, or the Royals, perhaps even the Brewers? LOL

I'm an almost 50 yr Cardinals Fan. Durn, I'm getting old.  Without knowing all the facts yet, it appears that someone did something. I don't think that it went to the top but really don't know. Whatever happened though won't define the Cardinals!

TPM: I'm not blaming it on Luhnow, passwords, etc. Maybe Selig but not Cubbies. Just kidding. This is serious stuff but they will overcome it.

Who has said that?  (Red above)  If you think I've said that them please re read.  I don't blame the Astros for anything and hope that the guilty parties are caught and fired.  I did post the password stuff and the speculations, note speculation, is that those old passwords worked because he took a proprietary database from the Cardinals.  This information as reported here in St. Louis is the result of some of those "leaks" mentioned in this thread. 

... and this is my last post on this subject.  Take care!

I never blamed you, where did I say that? Obviously there is discussion about the password thing as well as taking the STL database or he wouldnt have addressed it.

The man has a right to defend his integrity just as the Cardinal owners have a right to defend theirs.

Most of the cardinal fans that I know, including those here have the same attitude. In the words of Mike Matheny something happened and we have to find out what it is.   Its very serious, and i am sure both teams want to end the distraction.  

But when I read this is all  conspiracy theory ti slow down the best team in baseball, not here, well thats just silly.

Sorry if you feel a bit paranoid, not my problem.

One thing to keep in mind is that if the Cards are claiming proprietary information was taken, that would probably be based on a contract claim and the FBI would not share that info with the Cards unless they file a civil case and serve a subpoena on the Astros for discovery. The FBI will never share that info with the Cards. It could be years before we have any info on that side of the story.

Nobody's hacking into the Mariner's data base.

My understanding is the Mariners don't have a database... lol

From what I've read, there are only three teams who have this type of database. The Cardinals, the Astros, and the Red Sox. Now, I'm sure the other teams have something, but apparently not as elaborate as these teams..

If that is the case, then NOBODY but NOBODY is breaking into the Red Sox database!  It has been corrupted beyond repair.  DBAs need not apply.  

I'm going to hold judgement until this database fiasco facts come out.  There is a lot of media & pr spin going on.  Let's see what really happened.

Speaking of corrupt, this little database flap is small potatoes compared to what is going on with FIFA in Europe.  I have no interest in european football whatsoever, but thing is really getting ugly & interesting.  

I see it as great reconnaissance!

I agree with you completely..

Didn't I use "IF?"