Celeb draftees

I know who you are talking about and that type of stuff really bugs the cr-ap out of me. Thanks for not mentioning the name btw.

There have been tons of "name" picks in this year's draft and the problem seems to be getting worse each year.

There are many deserving kids who may be a bit undersized or whatnot that are getting shafted by these type of shaningans.

It annoys me too but I doubt if anyone is really getting shafted by it. Don't forget that there will be undrafted free agent signings soon after the draft. One undersized pitcher we expected to be drafted last season made it to pro ball that way and got off to a good start.

Shafted is probably too strong a word but some kids have earned getting their names called on draft day imho and they will be robbed by these type of joke picks.

I hear what you're sayin'...but I really don't quite see it that way.

Parents do everything they can to get their kids summer jobs where I work (I don't...doesn't feel quite right to me). I'm just sayin' its the way of the world. Maybe not the best way? But it is what it is and I can live with it.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the majority of these "favor" picks are kids they have no intention of signing...basically just giving kids a gift instead of drafting someone they have no intention of ever using...also, don't assume all or even most of these "name" kids can't play...many of the area scouts kids or whatever are good players.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
(I don't...doesn't feel quite right to me)

Neither do I and that is my point.

People can live with things until it affects them personally. I can put myself into some of these kids shoes and feel for them. I know full well how the world works but I will never admit I am ok with it. I'll live with it "only" because I have to.

There was a 6'6" slugger from UNLV last year who earned the right to hear his named called imho. I know his Dad handled it with the utmost amount of class and grace but I still felt for the kid. I see the same thing happening this year. I know for a fact there are more deserving kids at the SoCal D1 school of note in this thread. I guess we'll just have to live with it.

BTW - none of that diatribe above is directed at you justbb. That kind of stuff has always bugged me and I am merely venting at the "ways" of the world. I feel much better now that I have let go of the stress

Thats certainly a fair point w/ regards to the young man you referred too.

I'd be a lot more concerned with taking up a roster spot at a D1 that has not had a lot of success in recent years.

I heard a former mlb player on the radio, yesterday. The host mentioned that the player's son had been drafted this year. The guy said, "yeah, that's a great honor, I guess, but we have no idea why they picked him. He's going to Big U and everyone knows it."

This is my favorite draft pick of all time. The tv news went to his house and filmed him doing layups in his driveway, car and all. (this was last pick of entire 1983 NBA draft)

He was either the team doctor for the Philadelphia 76ers or the personal physician and poker buddy of then-owner Harold Katz. He might have even been a pharmacist to another Katz holding, NutriSystem. There is no consensus among several people around then, small-print details lost to time.

But Norm Horvitz was 49 years old and stood 5-feet-10 and weighed 205 pounds in 1983. That much was chronicled that night. He was an older gentleman, rounded, a product of the intramural program at the Philadelphia College of Pharmacy as a 1956 graduate.

And he was suddenly the 10th-round draft pick of the 76ers.

I guess it does bother me and has for some time. We see so many hard working, talented and deserving young players every year that go undrafted. I really think close to 10% of the draft, averaging out about 3 picks per club, are based on politics and favoritism. I’m not talking about the former player's kid that has talent.

Over the years we have seen this happen a lot. Once a scouting director told me that a certain crosschecker’s son was definitely going to be drafted two years before the kid was eligible for the draft. We saw the kid play and he absolutely lacked the skills to even be considered a draft pick. I’m not against small, not against slow, not against lack of power, but when you combine those things in one player, that should never be a draft pick.

The kid did end up being drafted by that club. Of course he didn’t sign and went to a small college. He was drafted because of who he is, not anything to do with his baseball ability. Like I said, there are way too many more deserving players that go undrafted for this to be right. We actually see many of both deserving and undeserving, every year. Yet I have no idea how to prevent it from happening. BTW, some of these son’s of insiders are very talented and deserving. Bloodlines do count!

Maybe the problem involves the number of rounds. Each club has more picks than they really need. So wasting some late picks, doing some favors, doesn’t hurt them. BTW, some organizations tend to be more involved in this nepotism than others. I even understand it, just think it is a bit unfair.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Maybe the problem involves the number of rounds. Each club has more picks than they really need.

Ha, PG Staff, this leads to my next question.

The reason the Sixers GM gave for drafting Dr. Norm Horvitz was, "when it gets to the last round, we're pretty much just throwin' darts, anyway."

Do you (any reader) think a player is better off being drafted in the 48th round and tied to a club, or better off not drafted at all, and free to pursue what the player feels is his best opportunity?

Well if the player has early round ability he is far better off going undrafted and being a free agent for the summer. If he is a true late round type he would be better off being selected. Just being a draft pick becomes a small part of baseball history. And it can help create interest at the next level. Pretty much any draft pick will be on the area scouts follow list.

I think maybe the draft ought to be cut down a bit if teams don't feel it is a big deal to "waste" a pick.

The first part of the draft is where the teams feel their prospects are. The middle part, they begin filling out their rookie ball and short season rosters. Seems after those spots are filled, perhaps after the first 30 rounds or so, maybe the draft ought to end. bbscout used to joke (I think) that most players were drafted so the prospects would have somebody to play against. The more I am around the sport, the more I think he was not kidding.

There is uncertainty however. A team may not be able to sign its picks and then left short for the summer rosters. Seems free agency ought to be able to handle that problem nicely with some kids probably making a buck or two more than if they would have been drafted late.

Someone mentioned something about assumptions above - I never assume. Just because someone was drafted, does not mean that they can play or otherwise advance. I follow countless numbers of Mendoza line hitters in the minors every year. Similarly, some pitchers never figure out how to throw strikes and when they do, they get hit hard. They look good in their uniforms however.

Contrary to all that, I do not assume that kids who are not drafted cannot play. One could argue that 30 teams passed on them 50 times but there is group-think out there that is far from perfect. I would encourage a kid to pursue a free-agent opportunity if they believe they can play. That is the most important part of the whole equation - it starts with a belief. Lots of people tell us lots of guys can play but after the contracts are signed, it's produce or go home. Some guys refuse to be told no and refuse to give up their beliefs in themselves. It takes talent no doubt but it takes an iron will to develop it and more importantly deal with the failure that inevitably comes along with it.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Maybe the problem involves the number of rounds. Each club has more picks than they really need. So wasting some late picks, doing some favors, doesn’t hurt them. BTW, some organizations tend to be more involved in this nepotism than others. I even understand it, just think it is a bit unfair.

I read somewhere that if every player signed that was drafted, a team would be financially strapped come august.

I have no problem with an organization drafting as a good will jester towards family of former players even if the player has plans to go to college. I don't see these as waste picks, many teams don't even get to 50, sometimes. Those that really do have the talent get drafted where they should.

What about the player that tells the team he wants to play, and gets drafted, then goes off to college, that's a wasted pick, IMO. I mean everyone wants to hear their kids name called on draft day, and I don't see anything wrong with being honest about his plans (as the one above of the player going to college).

Perhaps if more players (not celeb draftees) were completely honest when they are asked, those that really should have been given a chance to go play would get the chance.

So while blaming the teams for nepotism (which I have no problem with) how about those players that just want to hear their names called on draft day and mess it up for others?

JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Well if the player has early round ability he is far better off going undrafted and being a free agent for the summer. If he is a true late round type he would be better off being selected. Just being a draft pick becomes a small part of baseball history. And it can help create interest at the next level. Pretty much any draft pick will be on the area scouts follow list.

Just curios PG how many of the early round type guys really fall out? How many players typically sign undrafted contracts?

I was also shocked that Kyle Felix from Trinity did not get picked up. We only saw him once this year but he seemed like a kid with talent.

Hey - my son stuck out Kenny Logins, and Wayne Gretzky's sons in the same day I wonder if that help his status in three years?

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Contrary to all that, I do not assume that kids who are not drafted cannot play. One could argue that 30 teams passed on them 50 times but there is group-think out there that is far from perfect. I would encourage a kid to pursue a free-agent opportunity if they believe they can play. That is the most important part of the whole equation - it starts with a belief. Lots of people tell us lots of guys can play but after the contracts are signed, it's produce or go home. Some guys refuse to be told no and refuse to give up their beliefs in themselves. It takes talent no doubt but it takes an iron will to develop it and more importantly deal with the failure that inevitably comes along with it.

That is so very true, there are lots of guys on teams that didn't give up I know of quite a few in son's organization. The biggest part is finding the scout to beleive in you, that's tough.

quote:

there is group-think out there that is far from perfect.

CD, Kind of off topic, but interesting observation on your part and very true in some cases. It's easier to agree than it is to disagree with the majority. Certain scouting departments do a better job of individual thinking. Twins for one!

It's interesting that even in our evaluations we become part of this process of group thinking. Anyone who follows our rankings of players knows they are always the first list put out there. We are absolutely positive that we don't have everything right, yet when all the other lists start to appear they're pretty much the same names moved around slightly in order to look original.

Always makes me wonder, if we miss a player, will another list ever have him? And we know we miss players at times. Just tells me they're not thinking for themselves and more importantly they are not actually seeing these players.

Kind of burns me... We spend millions to evaluate thousands of players and someone can read our stuff, without hardly any effort or cost, and go get people to subscribe to see their list. It is all the same names in a different order.

Our staff that predicts the draft is into the group think mentality. It's based on what they are hearing from decision makers out there. Our staff that does the high school player rankings doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks. We are basing everything off of what we see and think. These two things don't always match. Example our HS rankings had Brett Anderson ranked #2, our draft coverage predicted he would not be a first round pick. Though disagreeing, in the end both were right I guess, but one was based on group thinking, the other based on only our opinion.

The same thing happens in MLB Scouting Departments. If a well respected scout says something, GOOD OR BAD, the ball starts rolling. Before long everybody joins in and there you have it. Not enough individual thinking going on these days. Seems odd when predicting a baseball players mlb future is so very difficult.

Luckily, there are still some "ShoMe" scouts around that don't care what the next guy thinks. They don't buy into someone else's opinions. They have been around long enough that they know they will be wrong at times. And they have seen the mass thinking go wrong often.

quote:

Just curios PG how many of the early round type guys really fall out?

BOF,

There actually are some every year. Maybe more so in high school than college, but it happens in both. Not many of these types end up signing though.

I think when an undrafted high school player becomes an early pick out of college, he had early pick potential out of high school.

I could give lots of examples, but one that comes to mind is Matt Wieters. He went uindrafted out of HS and was the MVP of the WWBA tournament after that draft. Several teams tried to sign him then. He had first round ability at that time. He didn't sign, went to GA Tech and then went in the first rd 3 years later.

It's all about projecting talent. So an argument could be made (withstanding signability) that a first rounder is a first rounder. They were all in high school at one time.

Interesting discussion

I think the Twins are a fine example PG. I think the Rays are also in that category - not because my son plays for them but because I heard Andrew Friedman say they have tried to model their franchise after the Twins. There are others of course.

Obviously, a first rounder out of college should have been a first rounder out of high school but there may have been more risk involved. Sometimes the talent is not apparent to the "group" out of high school. Was Evan Longoria considered a first rounder in high school? Did Long Beach State consider him a legitmate D1 prospect in high school?

Was Buster Posey a signability issue or was he really a 50th rounder in high school? or was he a 50th round shortstop but it was not yet apparent that he was a first round catcher?

What's really interesting about these discussions is that people can cite anecdotal evidence to support any philosophy or to denigrate anyone else's philosophy. Everyone wants to find the next Mickey Mantle, draft them, and sign them out of high school. Sometimes the drafting and signing part works but the Mickey Mantle part is often elusive.