Censoring Thoughts and Ideas

another "hyped" thread, should use spell check as well

Mark...The correct word is CENSORING in this discussion.

By the way, I helped coach the 15-16 year old Upper Deck Cougars in 2001 and 2002 and we never heard of your organization/players.

We were always looking for top notch local competition at the 15-16 year old level....tough to find in Chicagoland.

We finished 12th and then 5th in the 72 team USA Baseball Junior Olympic Team tournaments in Tucson, AZ; and, were very competitive in the 15 and 16 year old CABA tournaments, losing in the Championship round to the Champion, Bayamon, Puerto Rico. Too, we played in a very competitive tournament in East Cobb, GA.

All of our players wound up being D1 players except 1 who was a 4th round draft choice for the Royals; and, another who played D3 baseball.

Good luck with your team this summer.

Mark,

What a great weekend. Planting flowers, moving 14 yards of dirt, some kicks and punches and watching DGS win their Regional Championship again. We met once. I thought you had a good idea in regards to inner city baseball. You complained about support while playing on a UIC field. Mark I feel bad for you. Life must have taken a bad turn. I worry about your MH. Call me if I can help. I will try to help to the best of my ability.

Peace

People have throughout history taken it upon themselves to enlighten the world of their progressive thoughts.

Mao Tse Tung
Mohmar Khadaffi
Lenin

Then there's the kind that believe their infinitely superior intellect will carry the day.

Mark Ormond
Carl Sagan
Alex Trebec

And Mark, sorry to let the facts get in the way of a good browbeating, but you didn't propose any thinking or ideas. You simply spun your take on events spectated... and everyone should know by now, that opinions are like Ormonds...

I'll take pompous posters for $500 Alex...

Ormonds?

Mark - Fight the Power! I am with ya all the way!

Mark

You can drop the cross----stop looking for mercy and pity---

I think you are way off base--- the thoughts you are looking to fight are not prevalent on this site but they may well be if you keep it up

quote:

Originally posted by mark ormond:

Urban baseball in the third largest market in the country is a different experience and you can pretend whatever you want to, but the times they are a changing.

So when a thread gets locked because you accused an organization of bigotry, you charge that our actions were against Urban Baseball. TALK ABOUT A SPIN DOCTOR. In short, you and "Urban Baseball" are not one in the same and only you could suggest that you are one and the same.

Today under 10 percent of the players in major league baseball are African-Americans. What I am aware is at all levels of baseball is that is that it costs a lot of money to play baseball.

All that cool stuff -- high priced bats and balls, uniforms, bags and the cost of participation on a traveling team costs $2,000 to $5,000 for one year for one kid to play at the elite levels.

This is a big money game and as long as that continues there will be inequities. This subject bothers a lot of people and that is just too bad. You watch a game on TV and there are very few African-Americans playing professional or college baseball.

You tell me why. Twist it and spin it any way you want. I know what I have seen running an urban team for 5 years. This sport is lily white. But a higher level of urban talent is beginning to emerge and CPL is changing the game and in time the winds of change will become apparent.

What would Jackie Robinson say all these years later?

Mark,

Your replys are meaningless in regards to your points of debate. Please send me a private message. Let me help you or let other fellow posters send you in the right direction.

quote:

What would Jackie Robinson say all these years later?

Quit whining.

Mark , I respect what you have done and what you are trying to do but that being said , the CPL is really no different now than what it was when i played in it almost thirty years ago. Dont let this whole Whitney Young Thing go to your head ..You are going to be terribly disappointed . Just enjoy your sons time in high school and go along for the ride .

No debate on this subject is needed.

The facts are irrefutable. Our teams have been rostered with players of color and that has been a long time distinguishing factor that has not gone without notice no matter where we have gone to play. I have tried to effect change from a variety of different standpoints, but ussually have been met with a wall of resistance. No matter.

Point taken Dave, but so far no disappointment with Young. Winning is a good thing, but in the end that has never been what it is about. I have been beaten down many, many times.

No doubt, however that winning sure beats getting beaten down.

Mark, your "players of color" did great down here in southern Illinois. The team is loaded with them, in fact there are no "pale players" there. And they got spanked 20-0 by a team that went 9-19. Must have been the pale coach sitting in the dugout.

Marki,

I've been looking at your posts for quite some time now and have been wanting to reply but simply did not want to waste my time. But enough is enough. I realize you are just making posts to rile up a certain number of people but the time has come for you to leave these boards forever. With the exception of a few Chicago Public Schools your baseball teams would have a hard time beating Hanley School for the Blind. I've seen a few games with that involved your tough competition and have left thinking a junior high travel team could beat them. When was the last time a public school team won a game at the state championships? I respect programs like Lane, Clemente and even Whitney (this year) but most schools salivate at the thought of playing one of your conference teams to get another win on the record.

Your incessant comments and banter are not needed on this board. For you to get LSC and Agallan mad you must be full of enough hot air to turn on the sprinkler systems in any mall you enter.

I am glad you have pride in your team but don't we all. We all love our teams but very few of it keep pushing it down other people's throats. So just SHUT UP the piehole. You will make all of us very happy.

Norfrank,
The CPL is the bestest league in the whole United States. Whitney Young's sophomore team could beat anyone in Illinois and I mean anyone including Hanley's School for the Blind. Theyd smoke those guys.
You need to stop criticizing the best teams in the state, which are all conviently located in the CPL. Heck most of our pitchers top out around 65. Get with the program. We will take over you suburban schools in no time. Whitney Young has been dominating everyone this year. Even Schurz. Jason Ormand is a flat out baller. He hit a ball so high it took minutes before the catcher caught it. Mark was clapping his hands for that one.
I can recall him now, "You ever seen a ball hit that high Schurz...ever."
Onlooker one..."But Mark your son was out."
Mark, "But still the sheer height!!!"

Thats right norfrank...soon our skyballs will be infesting your precious WSC and you guys wont know what to do.

So do me a favor and fear...the sky high pops.
Oh yeah and Mark hates you.

PS. Whitney Young sophomores...flat out awesome...too bad our varsity is so good that none of them are playing up there.

CPL,

What in the world are you talking about? Is this really Marki typing in this. You will never see higher pop ups than the ones I've seen. I saw Roosevelt hit some that went so high the wind brought them back into fair territory. They had to be at least 200 feet in the air. You ever see that? Didn't think so. Hey Marki let me know the next time you guys play a good team that can compete against you at full strength. Unfortuantely Lane wasn't able to do that and your team got a little lucky. Like I said let me know the next time you all play a better team and I will bring enough towels to mop up all the tears you'll be crying when you all lose. Heck, let me bring my little sister's team so you can beat up on them and feel good about yourselves.

Oops I forgot, you already did. Does your school have a 16 inch softball team? If so please move over to that board and post away.

I don't think everyone hates Norframk just little small minded men like you.

norfrank,

I only feel sorry and concern for Mark.

Mark,
If you break it down, the premise for your whole argument is one of style over substance. Your argument that minority players are disadvantaged because they can't come to the ballpark feeling good about themselves is just a huge load of ****. Even if it were true, your argument would support fostering the facilitation of style over substance.

Marks message in a nutshell... lets teach our kids that nothing really matters as long as you look good, and feel good about the way you look.

Kumbaya Mark

The way the world actually functions, is one of attraction rather than promotion. People see a goal, are attracted to it, and work towards it. It's called progress. Trying to fix social problems by dumbing down the system to the lowest common denominator is not offering opportunity but teaching the world to set lower standards.

Give people something to aspire to and they'll naturally gravitate towards it.

Give your heavy handed preaching and condescending attitude a rest and quit reading your own promotional literature, it's swelling your head.

Begin your debate on the facts.

Throughout history it has been human nature to deny others what they so much want themselves. However, that only leads to diminishing returns. I understand that there are many who have great FEAR that there son's spot will be taken by a person of color.

The current environment is woefully ready for change. Baseball is a business and will begin to spend money on the urban athlete if they are promoted. It has always been said that the urban athlete is too raw, but we will continue to spotlight those who have played in our travel ball system. We will also continue to promote and encourage the development of the CPL players because there within lies a solution to the problem.

That is human nature. Look around. The world is so rapidly changing. Then look in the mirror and see if you like what you see. Time is on our side.

The time is now for change.

______________________________________________

Working Class Hero - John Lennon

Working Class Hero is generally regarded as one of Lennon's most caustic and overtly political songs, it explores themes of alienation and social status from childhood to adulthood. Sound familiar?

The song was controversial in 1970 when it was introduced. That was because it was one of the first popular songs to include the word "&!@*&^%" (twice). The album's notes replaced the word with asterisks, and footnotes claimed that the obscenity was omitted from the printed lyrics at the request of EMI. Censoring thoughts and ideas has never really worked. Nixon and Hoover tried, but today the music written by Lennon is bigger than ever.

In 2007, the band Green Day contributed a cover of the song to the forthcoming CD~Instant Karma: The Amnesty International Campaign to Save Darfur, proceeds from which help support Amnesty International's campaign to focus attention on the conflict in Darfur, Sudan. The song has now been re-released as a single to radio on April 30, 2007 and on iTunes on May 1, 2007.

When the group was asked why they chose the song, frontman Billie Joe Armstrong said, "We wanted to do 'Working Class Hero' because its themes of alienation, class, and social status really resonated with us. It's such a raw, aggressive song -- just that line: 'you're still &^%(*^$# peasants as far as I can see' -- we felt we could really sink our teeth into it. I hope we've done Lennon justice.

I believe they have and it is so appropriate that this song can today teach the masses life lessons. Music can teach the world so much. Listen to the song as it demonstrates Lennon's dislike of the power of organized religion to sedate the masses:

"Keep you doped with religion and *** and TV, And you think you're so clever and classless and free, But you're still ****ing peasants as far as I can see."

If You Want To Be A Hero Then Just Follow Me - John Lennon

Seriously Mark, the only thing bigger than your Big Time head is the Big Time chip on your shoulder... "person of color"? Give me a break. Real players could care less what color the competition is - they want to be better than all of them.

When I watch MLB I see plenty of "persons of color", many of them Latin American players from the poorest countries of the world. Their families don't earn $2000 a year, let alone spend it on an "elite" baseball team. And yet they succeed. It's about hard work, not hype.

And what about the NBA - who's keeping the "white man" down in basketball? Are all those "persons of color" fearing that they might lose their spot to some "lily white" boy, or are they just working hard to be the best PLAYER they can possibly be and not worrying about the color of their competition?

"Baseball is a business and will begin to spend money on the urban athlete if they are promoted". Um, no. Baseball will spend money on athletes who succeed, not athletes who are hyped to the high heavens. If CPL players are as good as you claim they are, people will notice. So relax and turn off the Big Time promotion machine.

You have got to stop wearing that Old Brown Shoe. I understand that change is difficult for many to accept and FEAR is the factor that prevents change.

Deal with it.

quote:

Originally posted by mark ormond:
You have got to stop wearing that Old Brown Shoe. I understand that change is difficult for many to accept and FEAR is the factor that prevents change.

Deal with it.

"IT" would be you Mark. We did deal with it, the lights were on, but no one was home.

You and me should get together, because who knows.....it will happen that someday, someway,......We will be wearing rings on every finger and........I might be comforting you.

Mark you raise some points but your message gets clouded by the in-your-face nature of your posts. Reasonable people will listen and you don't have to brow-beat them.

Some of your posts are somewhat insulting and others are thought-provoking. Your Lennon post and analysis was one of the more interesting ones I have seen in awhile. Is that your analysis or did you google it from somewhere? Just curious?

These social class guys like Lennon, Bono, Michael Moore, and now Billy Joe Armstrong make me laugh. They love to preach from on high about what the rest of us ought to be doing and where our resources ought to be going. They might sing at a concert for free that raises a million dollars and say "Look at how much I have contributed to the cause" Them contributing a million dollars is like you and me contributing a nickel to some bum on the street. I don't believe in limosine liberals and will never go to Cuba for my healthcare.

I think there is an economic issue in baseball but it is down on the list from cultural issues. Baseball is passed on from father to son in many cases. There are two things necessary for that to happen. 1) A father who is interested in baseball to begin with 2) A father who is involved in raising of the son.

I think some of this is simple and hard for social do-gooders to understand. Some people simply choose other sports/activities and it is no more complicated than that. I watched the Cavaliers last night and rooted for LeBron James. It didn't cross my mind that there were hardly any white players on the floor. I wish people would watch baseball and enjoy it for the people that play it (whites, asians, blacks, latinos) and not for the racial components that make it up.

Thanks and a tip of the hat to you CD...that post makes perfect sense!

CD, when you brush off people who work for charity, you are the one preaching. You say that them giving millions is like you giving a nickel. How many millions have they given? Do you know? People like them can generate more for charity with concerts than they could ever give away personally. Where are the limosine conservatives? I'd rather have people doing something for less advantaged than nothing.
Have you seen Michael Moore's movie about the health care crises. No, it has not been released. Yet you critisize it. Conservatives that have actually seen it have praised it and say it cuts across partisan lines. Are you happy with health care in the country? Should people stop working for charities unless they have given all their money away? You make no sense. Keep listening to Hannity and Limbaugh and spare us your partisan attacks.
By the way, what is wrong with being a "social do gooder"? Would it be better to be a "do baddder"? Thank the Lord for people that try to help others. We could use more of them.

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad1954:
Thank the Lord for people that try to help others. We could use more of them.

Amen!

Marki,

The only way you will have a ring on every finger is by buying them from a gumball machine. Stop blaming everyone for not promoting the inner city youth. Start talking to your school system and get them to get behind you. I have a feeling that they won't. CPL on the whole stinks. The good players from the inner city find a way to get to the next level. If they are good enough they will be found.

Find a way to fix the school system and the talented ball players will start coming to your school.

Whitney Young, Lane and Clemente are all able to attract good players either because of the scholastic achievement of the school or the sports programs. Each one of the schools will have players that go to the next level. Stop playing the race card and start looking at the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I think there is an economic issue in baseball but it is down on the list from cultural issues. Baseball is passed on from father to son in many cases. There are two things necessary for that to happen. 1) A father who is interested in baseball to begin with 2) A father who is involved in raising of the son.

I think some of this is simple and hard for social do-gooders to understand. Some people simply choose other sports/activities and it is no more complicated than that.

Cleveland Dad, Thank you for your accurate and well thought out post. Anything that reminds me of how hard my Dad worked 6 and 7 days a week, but somehow found the time to play catch with me and show me how to play this game makes this Memorial Day a special one for me.

It appears that CPL and Ormand are the same person, same writing style, same use of Bold words within paragraph, and at the end. Only two posts for CPL, just a bit fishy.

So does that mean you'll be carrying a torch in each hand?

With use of the word "colored" have we time warped back to the 40's?

quote:

Originally posted by Glove Man:
It appears that CPL and Ormand are the same person,

Woody,
Can you find a cupie doll for that man with the perceptive post?

Resorting to psuedonyms to make it look like someone independent supports your argument is the pinnacle of desperation.

Mark

Does your son know that you are constantly posting on this board about him and Whitney Young ? I have to wonder if he is okay with it ...assuming he knows ?

Regarding the slightly veiled comments about African Americans not having a father to play catch with. Come on. You can be good at football and basketball without a father, but you need one to play baseball? Huh? Watching Field of Dreams too many times? I think you have to look elsewhere for the reason more Blacks don't play baseball then that particular stereotype.

I honor my Father on Memorial Day for his service in WWII at the D-Day Invasion, Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge. On Father's Day I honor him for playing catch with me.

I grew up on Wallace Ave, 1/2-block from Fenger High School. My first friend ever was Demetrius. We played baseball in the yards and streets and harassed the garbage truck drivers, while the CFD was breaking up the gangs with fire hoses down by Fenger and our mothers worked at Roseland Hospital together. I was a member of Pi Kappa Phi fraternity at Bradley. My pledge warden was Mike, and the things I let him do to me I'll tell you, whoa. My first plege son was Arnold, and things he let me do to him; I could have went to jail if he didn't absolutely trust me.

The best of times, and life long friendships.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
Woody,
Can you find a cupie doll for that man with the perceptive post?

Take your pick CPLZ...
















AndI'm not sure about this one. Some guy tried to sell this to me...he swore it was a Cupie Doll, but I wasn't buying it. After I checked it out thoroughly and then had it analyzed by an American Society of Cupie Doll Collectors and Afficianados (ASCDCA) expert I'm pretty well convinced it's not a Cupie Doll at all, but merely a crushed rail tank car. What do you think? Were we right...crushed tank car?

looks like a train wreck to me...

You bring up some good points bball54 . Those same old excuses/reasons get very old after a while. For someone who is as educated as Mark to keep on harping on this is questionable at best. The bottom line is this ...it all starts at home with the parents.