Change

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
I wish I could make everybody in the world see that Bear's joke really isn't that funny.

I totally agree. There is NOTHING funny about driving intoxicated.

Wishing you and your family a very Happy Holiday. Hope all is well.

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The set up was funny regardless of the topic. Drinking and driving is definitely not funny.

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quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
I wish I could make everybody in the world see that Bear's joke really isn't that funny.

The world is a place of perspective...most of the rest of the world is lucky enough not to have yours on that particular topic.

Understanding that, is a two way street. Each can be a bit myopic without that understanding.

Regards,
Chip

quote:

I wish I could make everybody in the world see that Bear's joke really isn't that funny.

I wish that too.Deldad,hope all is well.Have a Merry Christmas

Perhaps places of perspective and understanding on such an important issue can and will be changed because deldad took the time to post and bring a perspective which impacts a "minority" but impacts them in the most intense manner possible.
For anyone who is wondering, this link will provide the insights:

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...=380107514#380107514

The really sad part is that the post had absolutely nothing to do with a really amazing topic started by CD.

Thank you infielddad for your post.

Since some folks are keeping score, I'm with Deldad.

If you aren't a big drinker, I'm not so sure jokes about getting drunk are funny. And there's nothing funny about drunk driving.

I find it unfortunate that we as a society can't separate humor from reasonable sensitivity. Unfortunately there is no standard for appropriateness, as it is a sliding scale, much like an ethics argument.

As a society we shouldn't have to walk on eggshells.

Anyone that would assimilate the intended humor (yes, I thought and do think it is funny) with advocacy is stretching beyond what we should consider a reasonable connection.

JMHO,
Chip

My perspective on many things has changed from when I was younger, more ignorant, and more insensitive. I had a different perspective then, but it is in no way the equivalent to the perspective I have now. Not all perspectives are equal.

quote:

Originally posted by '15 Dad:
Not all perspectives are equal.

They can't be. By definition they it is a collective of our personal experiences.

That's why sensitivity to them is a two way street. Those without a rare catastrophic experience shouldn't be expected to always be sensitive to those that have...and visa versa. I don't see where pointing out either side is reasonable or healthy. It only serves to belittle and condemn.

CPLZ, if you can support the post being "funny," those of us who disagree can fully express our views.
deldad expressed his perspectives from a loss to which none of us can relate. Personally, I find it hard to equate when you suggest all perspectives are equal when one is coming from a perspective of a life lost.

Honestly, this just makes me cry. I don't understand how anyone could know deldad's story and still respond with insensitivity. I am terribly sorry.

Julie

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
Honestly, this just makes me cry. I don't understand how anyone could know deldad's story and still respond with insensitivity. I am terribly sorry.

Julie

Regardless of this story or that story, driving under the influence is no laughing or joking matter period. Those who think parodying an action that kills and injures so many innocents has not matured. Simple as that.

My father was an alcoholic. As I became an adult our roles reversed. I was the one who feared the late night call. It finally came. The only positive I can find in his death is he didn't kill the two innocent victims he hit head on. I can't find humor in people making irresponsible decisions and placing innocent people at risk.

quote:

That's why sensitivity to them is a two way street. Those without a rare catastrophic experience shouldn't be expected to always be sensitive to those that have

I dont agree with that statement.Not wanting an argument or to dimish your thoughts as we are all adults.But for myself I think we should be sensitive to those that have been through catastrophic experiences.

I know the person who wrote the joke about drinking and driving the cab wasnt meaning to be insensitive,but drinking and driving is a BIG deal.And if I were a parent who lost my child due to a drunk driver I would be sensitive to it being taken lightly in a joke.

Thats just my opinion.No disrespect to the poster or to you.

The joke was already posted the day before in the Mens Forum. What was the purpose of reposting it here?

Not enough looks? Not enough laughs over there anymore. The need to seek attention and ruin a good topic?

Things I would change.....

Would be smarter when I was younger

Would have waited before I bought that boat

Would have married my wife sooner and perhaps had a couple more kids

Would not have built a house with a driveway that went up a hill

Would have told my dad I loved him a little more

Would have taught my kid to hit left handed

Would have not changed a thing because maybe I wouldn't have learned anything unless I failed at it first.

Let me relate an example.

I lost a daughter. She was the victim of a negligent doctor and died.

Dozens if not a hundred times, I have had someone make the joke, "Do you know what they call the guy who graduates last in his class at medical school? They call him Doctor"

Not once did I believe it was appropriate for me to tell them they were insensitive to people who had Doctors kill their children. I understand that I can't expect people to anticipate something that obscure, even though tragic. They meant no harm with their flippant joke, and it is up to me to understand that they carry no malice in their hearts, no intention of harm, and do not take malpractice and lethal medicine lightly. The only thing that would have happened, had I censured them, would have been to make them feel badly.

I ask you, if I publicly point out to them how insensitive they are and make them feel badly about it, who is wrong then? I think it would be me.

Regards,
Chip

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
Let me relate an example.

I lost a daughter. She was the victim of a negligent doctor and died.

Dozens if not a hundred times, I have had someone make the joke, "Do you know what they call the guy who graduates last in his class at medical school? They call him Doctor"

Not once did I believe it was appropriate for me to tell them they were insensitive to people who had Doctors kill their children. I understand that I can't expect people to anticipate something that obscure, even though tragic. They meant no harm with their flippant joke, and it is up to me to understand that they carry no malice in their hearts, no intention of harm, and do not take malpractice and lethal medicine lightly. The only thing that would have happened, had I censured them, would have been to make them feel badly.

I ask you, if I publicly point out to them how insensitive they are and make them feel badly about it, who is wrong then? I think it would be me.

Regards,
Chip

I believe there is a difference between a joke and an unfortunate truth.

There is absolutely no reason to be calling out a grieving father over his wish that alcoholic jokes would cease. You can play devil's advocate on any topic but show some sensitivity here. I am sorry about your daughter and that joke is not funny either imho but it doesn't change my opinion that deldad's post was fine without further critique.

As usual, Bear shoots from the lip and these kind of things happen. It was a pretty nice thread up until then

I don't have a problem with deldad's sentiment. I didn't find the joke funny at all, but I didn't take any offense to it. Of course, I didn't have a real-life experience in relation to the topic at hand like deldad did.

I do wonder, VERY often, where Bear trolls these boards without much contribution or relevant information.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
There is absolutely no reason to be calling out a grieving father over his wish that alcoholic jokes would cease. You can play devil's advocate on any topic but show some sensitivity here.

Much of what I learned and I have come to know was from sitting around, with my wife, in support groups of parents who lost children and therapists. We did not recover with hugs alone. And once recovered, we stayed to pass along what we knew of recovery and to help others as we had been helped. While you believe me to be insensitive, I respectfully believe your opinion to be uninformed.

Love and caring and help takes many forms...as does inappropriateness, whether it be overt or cloaked.

Regards,
Chip

I realize no one can make you cry uncle Chip, but none of us was asking to be informed. I still don't get the point of saying anything even though I intellectually get what you are saying. Look, we are a closed community here. We are not trying to solve the problems of the world at large nor do we care about the theory behind the first amendment. We all know deldad's son was killed by a drunk driver and that alone ought to raise our sensitivities here at the hsbbweb.

Here's how I see it...

Bear's post was not appropriate in this thread. deldad didn't even call Bear out, he wished all people would no longer find those types of jokes funny which was appropriate for this thread. He could have posted that even if Bear had not started things. Any further commentary was superfluous at best and insensitive at its worst - given our closed world circumstances here and all that we now know.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I would change nothing I am totally at ease in my skin

Me too, I'm completely at ease in TR's skin (although I need to have it let out a bit).

CPLZ,
I have never experienced a loss such as yours or the circumstances leading to the loss. I have never experienced a loss such as deldad. Our son lost a teammate and we lost a wonderful friend at age 20 in a tragic accident. His mother handled and managed the experience and after effects in one way. His Father in a somewhat different manner. I respected each and never expressed any views, thoughts or opinions, just respect and admiration.
Applying what happened then, I don't have an opinion adverse to post of deldad and will absolutely support his ability to express his perspectives.
I won't and do not have any opinion or views, in any way, on your decision to be silent about your tragic experience with your daughter in the face of jokes which hurt. I would never expect you to have to explain why you made the choice you did or do in those situations. I fully respect you for choosing to be silent. I would never expect deldad to be placed into a position, especially on a message board, of explaining why he chose to post as he did. I fully respect the choice of deldad to post his perspectives. Finally, I would never expect your choice to mirror the choice of deldad.
Within the differences, there is only respect for each of you and the choice you made in situations which were not comfortable.

great stuff Bear

Bear congrats to you for stepping up and doing something like that. It moved many others to act as well. Thanks for sharing that.

I have a friend that posted "the cab drive" joke on her FB page last week, and I thought it was hilarious. However, knowing what deldad and his family went through after the death of his son, I understand and respect his response to Bear's post. Afterall, this thread is about "Change" in ourselves, and neither of Bear's posts (as good as they may be) pertain to anything in this thread...just my two cents.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Bear congrats to you for stepping up and doing something like that. It moved many others to act as well. Thanks for sharing that.

The internet is just an awesome place, one can find just about anything they want, and copy and paste.

http://www.utvet.com/SackLunches.html

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Thank you Bear. That is a great story. Thanks for sharing it.

I recently was on a flight from Portland to Chicago with a transfer in Denver. Sitting next to me on the first leg of the flight was a young man...nineteen or twenty if I remember.

I soon found out that he was on his way to Ft. Sill, OK to start basic training. He was going to be involved with plotting artillery shells somehow or other. Even though he hadn't even started he knew all about it. It was fascinating to listen to him. It was my pleasure sitting next to and talking with a nice young man who was preparing to serve his country. He is married and he and his wife have a daughter less than a year old. It was his first flight ever and I very much enjoyed pointing out all of the landmarks between Portland and Denver.

God bless families like theirs.



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Bear, please don't take claim for something you didn't write.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/lunch.asp

Bear.

JH,

He will claim he didn't actually say he took credit, he just posted it so others would think he did.

So everyone would think he really comes here with good intentions.

It's all BS.

tpm-------u make me laugh

Plagarism is not cool and Bear's last post has been deleted.

I am getting requests to close this thread but I feel like there might be one more person out there with something interesting to say. If it keeps going down hill like this, we will have to close it unfortunately.

Bear - you are persona non grata. In case you do not understand Latin, that means you are no longer welcome here.

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Well, perhaps he could change.

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quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
If you could change something (or things) about yourself, what would it be?

more often, I would be the husband my wife deserves me to be

more often, I would tell by example rather than with words

more often, I would think of those close to me and, in various ways, let them know

more often, I would do things for others who need things done for them

As of today, I honestly wouldn't change too many things about myself...but I would strive to improve in several areas:

*I want to be a better husband.
*I want to ba a better dad.
*I want to be a better son.
*I want to be a better brother.
*I want to be a better friend.
*I want to be a better boss/leader.
*I want to be a better listener.
*I want to be a better person...there's always room for improvement in my life.

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MERRY CHRISTMAS bsbl247. I thought a gift membership to this group is something you could put to good use.


I can't believe it's better!



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quote:

I am getting requests to close this thread but I feel like there might be one more person out there with something interesting to say.

CD I'm glad you didn't. There is something I would change about myself.

It's something I have to deal with when I think about the sudden loss of my father which I blame on a certain medical professional. It's something I have to deal with when I think of the loss of my nephew which I blame on a teenager ignorant of basic gun safety. It's something I have to deal with when I think about Columbine, Nickle Mines or Newtown when I think of the the loss of teachers and innocent children which I blame on cowardly maniacs.

It's forgiveness. It has always been hard for me to quickly forgive but it seems that the sooner you are able to apply forgiveness to any situation, the sooner you can find a way to make good out of bad.

After my father's funeral, I went back to his house and went through some of his things I thought I'd like to have. There was his guitar, his favorite books, a few wartime pictures and memories....but then I noticed an old yellowed tattered clipping from a newspaper stuck in the corner of his bedroom mirror.

I read, "Dear God: So far today, I have done alright. I have kept my mouth shut. I have not gossiped, yelled or lost my temper. I have not been greedy, nasty, selfish or over-indulgent. I am glad about that. But in a few minutes, God, I am getting out of bed. From then on, I'm probably going to need a lot of help. Thank you."

I understood that everyday my dad got out of bed he realized that he may disappoint either himself or others. He knew that he could make good out of the day because of forgiveness.

I can think of many times when I wish I had given the gift of forgiveness sooner than I did and maybe in a few instances, I still haven't given it yet.

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Great thoughts PA Dino. Thanks for sharing them.

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