chatroom

Reading more and more on this website and in these forums makes me realize one main running theme....there are a lot of indians and no chiefs!! There's a lot of information flowing through the site, but at what point is any of it valid? About 10% of the suggested information is on the right track...about 80% is put together with the right idea in mind, but wrong...and the last 10% is absolutely not worth considering. What I'm concerned about is the ability of a teenage baseball player to differentiate between this information. I don't think it's possible. This site is great...because there's such a good variety of people and such good exchange of information, but if you believe everything you read you're going to end up running in circles. I DO have to say that you, Tiger Paw Mom, are one of the people I've found to give solid, sound advice. There are a few others...but I've found a running argumentative tone to some of these forums. It's good to have some back and forth, but when it becomes argumentative there's a negative conatation to the subjects in general. Tell me what you think...

Chad

That's what healthy debate is all about. It is up to "us" to figure out what to filter and what is relevant based on our own individual needs and tastes.
What we don't need is someone telling us what to think--that's what our WIVES are for.

Chad,

As a longtime reader and member of this site (and now the owner), I have to strongly disagree with your statement that only 10% of the information found on this site is on the right track.

You just joined this site a week ago, and many of your posts in this week have been targeted toward attracting attention to your recruiting business. I just think that it's a bit impolite to use the old "promote my business / dis the good folks giving free advice" tactic in your very first week here.

Chad
Are you saying that the eighty % should be run through someone like..........you?

Many of the issues brought here are expressed by, and for parent who have been through, or are wondering about others experiences. It sounds like you have some professional experience, but I wonder about your hands-on parental experience at other levels.

You are entitled to your opinions but for someone who has not been around this site for a long time it is not fair to throw those numbers around.

Chad

I will second your opinion that TPM gives great info but that is where the agreement will end.

quote:

There's a lot of information flowing through the site, but at what point is any of it valid? About 10% of the suggested information is on the right track...about 80% is put together with the right idea in mind, but wrong...and the last 10% is absolutely not worth considering.

Nonsense!
There are many more posters who have taught me alot over the years. I would have to say that your arrival here and perhaps the lack of response you have received from this group may have caused you to make such an off-base comment. Bad Form

JT:

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
What we don't need is someone telling us what to think--that's what our WIVES are for

Really?...that's what wives are for?

I guess it's back to the drawing board for me...hit the books again...I had no idea!



MN-Mom:

I agree with you absolutely! Chad must have one heckuva' a baseball wise wife to think that only 10% of what is posted is on the right track...isn't that right JT? Go ahead JT...ask your wife what to think!


Chad Durbin:

Hang around with us...we'll talk and you'll listen...and then you'll talk and we'll listen...it'll be fun...really!

Owner,

I disagree with you, but that's what this platform is for. I have not been promoting my business at all. Asking questions to gain information is what every single person on this site is doing...and to better the situation for everyone, espcially the parents and student-athletes. I'm doing much of the same. Look through my forum statements and you will find that I did put in a few questions, initially, about recruting services, but the majority of my comments have been in line with the elbow pain, throwing across your body, judging talent and pitching lesson topics. I'm interested in making it better experience for all...I've just found that 10% of all the information is terrible. 80% have the right idea in mind and give partially great information, but with other bad suggestions to go along with the good. Then there's the 10% left over, typically by your Old Timers, that give exceptionally good advice and will give suggestions to resources when they don't know the answers. If you'd please re-evaluate my posts, you might find that I'm not in the business of promoting my business. There are no links to sites and no contact information whatsoever. I have an abundance of information from personal experience and hundreds of personal resources...I feel I present a tremendous asset to this site. Thanks for reading the initial writing, though.

Hey! We have life!! Looking back at the initial post...when I referred to the 80%, I didn't mean that they were wrong, just not completely right. I do stick by the 10% bad, 10% great...but the buffer region of 80% is on the right track, needs to be considered, but isn't entirely correct...partial credit!! I'll be honest, I'm not going to learn a whole lot about the actual play of baseball on this site...not what I came here for. I'm here because parents and the players themselves deserve more information available to educate themselves. This site is 100% credible...but just like many companies or websites, the users aren't going to be 100% credible. The communication is great...usually kept in check by the more knowledgable parent, coach or athlete. I guess it's the same as most things...there's a checks and balances system. It was used to keep me in check and I'm using it to keep others in check. Good stuff

Oh, last comment for a bit. For every player there are parents/guardians....I had three at the time, a Dad, Mom and step-Dad...and that doesn't include the summer league coaches, high school coaches and fathers of players I was friends with during the recruiting process as well as the process of being drafted into pro baseball. We had NO information available...and my Mom's main issue was what most mothers worry about...what's right for her son. She didn't want smoke blown up her....she wanted to know what was best for her child. I've experienced quite a bit on the personal level when it comes to the recruiting processes...I also do many lessons for kids in the area and deal with their parents asking questions, keeping me updated and the kids asking questions as well. I just want to point out that being a parent is wonderful...and I will be one someday soon...but to say that I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't have a son isn't completely right, either. I'm writing on here to help...but not myself...the dad or mom wanting answers. Toes are stepped on daily in these forums...

Checks and balances...great job, seriously...it's a good system.

quote:

About 10% of the suggested information is on the right track...about 80% is put together with the right idea in mind, but wrong...and the last 10% is absolutely not worth considering.

quote:

There are a few others...but I've found a running argumentative tone to some of these forums. It's good to have some back and forth, but when it becomes argumentative there's a negative conatation to the subjects in general. Tell me what you think...

I'm sure you aren't complaining about an argumentative tone after trashing 90% of the advice given here. You run a recruiting service and obviously don't like a "self-help" website on the subject. The terrain is somewhat established, so....if you contribute thats fine. If you are going to just flame bait....well, we can go that way too, I guess.

But I'll bite. How can the site be improved?

These types of sites are exactly what the reader wants them to be. If your looking for opinions different or the same as yours, just browse for a while and you'll find them. If you think that any site is a catch all for all of your needs, you're naive. Again, this site will be exactly what you want it to be for you. I enjoy baseball. I read certain forums and avoid the others. Where else can you go to get so many different opinions, stories and facts about what parents/players have gone through during the recruitment process? So many of our posters have sons that have been highly successful. The post of those parents are a valuable tool for us all to understand the workings of the process. Where else can you go for such a wide range of opinions on any topic in coaching the game? Where can you find such a mix of baseball fans, parents, players and coaches from all levels? Well, I could go on and on. Simply put, your 10% concept leaves me puzzled. Exactly what are you wanting out of this site?

quote:

I'm here because parents and the players themselves deserve more information available to educate themselves. This site is 100% credible...but just like many companies or websites, the users aren't going to be 100% credible.

I guess it is just a bit dis-heartening that a "newby" come on the site and proclaims that 6 years of pro ball and 331 innings pitched gives him the right to grade posters. Yes there are some comments that should go straight to the trash can, but like you said many of the 80% of responses can added to. I'm sure that many of us could provide "added value" to anything you say also. I guess what rattled me was the "holier than thou" edge.

Enjoy the site.

I want to improve the education of parents, coaches and athletes through this site. As far as the recruiting business...I don't promote or touch on that at all on here. Many of you work real jobs, correct, but you don't talk about real estate, mortage brokering or lumber yards on here. I play baseball for a living, #1...what would be better than to have someone who's job it is to study and play the game for a living talking shop on a website designed to educate on that exact subject??

As far as improvement of the site, realistically, not much can be done. Like you've all stated, it's an opinion oriented forum based on fact. I'm using the same approach I have with coaches through the years...each person has a different way of teaching and each has a way of learning. I have always took away from a teacher what applies to my situation and I can use. If a parent, coach or athlete is reading these forums I hope they take away from the posts what works for themselves rather than take it all as written in stone. Fire away...

rz1,

I agree with you. I wanted to push some buttons...create some conversations and it worked. I have no problem with criticism. I have 10 years of pro experience...6 of which have been at a major league level. Four of those years were either spent at 22 and 23 years old or merely a year out of Tommy-John Surgery...so, without a doubt, I have been through plenty when it comes to the experience side of baseball. I was just concerned...a child asking about elbow pain gets tens of posts...and some of the advice was of a concern to me. Having been through the entire process and making it back to the big league under a year of the date of surgery...I understood the dynamics, mechanics and complexity of the problem. Everyone has the right ideas in mind...but just as I should've kept my opinions to myself, so should many posters when it comes to writing on a subject they don't know much about.

I hope anyone who read the initial post on this particular subject by me can overlook the insensitivity in saying that 80% are wrong. I'd like to say from my few hours reading the site...that I'm not prepared to make any assumptions. I also hope that my expertise can be more adequately and properly used in the future. I'll try not to critique until the time comes when i've earned that right.

How's that? more like it? Anyone's buttons I did happen to push...I apologize. I was concerned with a couple posts...but as you all have made obvious...it was just a couple.

Thanks again

SPICY!!! ha ha

quote:

I was just concerned...a child asking about elbow pain gets tens of posts...and some of the advice was of a concern to me.

As you will see, if you read many posts, individual questions are usually answered anecdotaly, such as your elbow problem, specific to the question.

When a kid says his elbow hurts, he will get a dozen responses telling him to get to a good orthopod pronto. It ain't rocket science, Chad. Please don't tell me it is.

Chad, I know you come from a professional baseball background and I’m sure you have lots of information. We all hope you will share that information. You say we are a bunch of Indians and have no chief. Thank you for you observation. Baseball players are taught to accept authority and not question that authority. That is the way a well oiled team operates. But anyone that plays sports at the higher levels knows they are there for the betterment of that team. The player’s needs and desires are ignored and the team as a whole is what’s important. Players are actually cast aside and left behind as the team moves on. That’s the nature of the game. We all know that. The HSBBW is completely different. The underlings or the individual player’s wants and needs are paramount here. There is no head coach. The goal is not to win the game but to satisfy the needs of each player and each player’s needs are different. Today’s challenge on the HSBBW may be a high profile player considering HS vs. pro and tomorrow it might be a JV player that will probably be cut and have to hang up his cleats wanting to know what to do. Here on the HSBBW we don’t do things my way, your way, or even the site administrator’s way, but allow the player and the parents do it THEIR way. What may appear to be mass confusion and bickering is actually a well though out and orchestrated format created by Bob Howdeshell many years ago. Bob realized his opinions were important to him but he knew others had opinions too. Bob said lay it on the table and allow us to choose. But it has to be free. We all listen to everyone. I’m sure the passing of the keys of the HSBBW to MNmom carried the responsibility that the player seeking help could get it on the HSBBW for free with no strings attached. The success of the HSBBW speaks for itself. Stick around. I think you will change you mind that 90% of the information here is wrong. I agree, there will be some poster make some outlandish suggestion but that poster is obviously misinformed and lacks all the facts .. but those posts are allowed to stand on their own merits just as this one is. The readership here will surprise you. They KNOW what’s going on. The members of the HSBBW will always control the direction of the HSBBW and that is why it is so successful. I know you’re new here but the HSBBW is a unique concept where only the player profits from all this information. You say you have some personal experiences in the recruiting game......that's cool but so have thousands of others that post freely here on the HSBBW.
Fungo

Chad,
I'm with you on this one. At the same time I would not put much credence on the HSBBW medical staff. Many time it comes from folks who had a "good night sleep" at the Holiday Inn. As far as mechanics and so on we sit and watch the Tom Houses of the world change their thought process year after year. The right and wrong is not written in stone, it is all an opinion and learning experience.

Please don't keep your opinions to yourself, I think you could be a valuable asset to this site if at the same time you can accept the fact that this site has no "all knowing" king, but rather good people looking to exchange thoughts.

I think what's important is that no one keeps their opinion to themself. I've been here just a few months and had some of my thoughts about baseball changed from hearing from HSBBW contributors. I respect Chad's experience and background, but there is no guarantee that he will teach anyone more than some of the other highly knowledgable people here.

I nominate Fungo as Chief Wild Eagle.

Chad - Welcome to the site! I think you'll learn after being here a while that there's a lot of wonderful information albeit, varying information. The baseball parents/players on this site are many intelligent and informed folks that can decipher the good from the bad. I, for one, always look forward to seeing what new folks contribute. However, I will always value the true old timers! Also, don't underestimate the value of this site outside of advice - it serves many purposes for many different people.

Signed Momma Indian

Agreed, agreed, agreed...

Dad04,
You're right, the answers to elbow pain, shoulder pain, knee pain or anything else on the orthopaedic side of things is to head to your local orthopaedic doctor. YOU said it...and I agree. Not all advice is along those lines...but that's the beauty of the site....information abundance, intake is personal.

Fungo,
I see it a little more clearly now. Just as I said above...there is an abundance of information available and it's our job, not only here, but everywhere, to sift through and find what works. There are no real guidelines....just the voice of the audience. The player, parent and coach gains from the influx of opinion...and for many, the lack of leadership is a ray of light in the dark. Loud and hear, Fungo, I hear ya.

rz1,
I won't keep to myself...I rather enjoy the dialogue and the learning process for both me and whomever I may give information in the future. I really like how many people post in such a short amount of time on GOOD subjects that need to be touched. I was curious a week or two ago when I started....curious to see what kind of knowledge is out there...it's out there and the posts are relatively informative and some are outstanding. Feel free to buzz my tower any time....like I said before, I can handle criticism...having been on the big league stage and having less success than failure...I can handle it. I know the game...and I know the mind of a ballplayer. I'm great with kids...but usually it's one-on-one...I'll learn how to post to a large group. I think it's great.

thanks

Chad Durbin:

Your tower has been buzzed and you didn't bail...nice job.

Welcome to the HSBBW...we all look forward to your input Chad.

Chad - I've read every word of TPM's first post, studied it carefully. Call me crazy but nowhere in her post does it solicit anybody's opinion regarding the current state of the website. Why the tangent?

Chad - Welcome to the HSBBWeb. I looked up your MLB stats and it looks like you are the only 'Indian' so far on the site that I am aware of .

Hope you hang around and contribute your own blend of 10/80/10 along with the rest of us baseball loving folks. I will say this; in my several years (scary) of participating on this site, I have NEVER seen a post saying that any harm or negative experience has occurred as a result of anything said on this site -- quite the opposite, in fact, my family included.

Chad,

Welcome to the hsbaseballweb!!! Sorta like a large lockeroom... gotta take a little while to learn who you can snap with a towel and who you do not want to "uncover" to snap back with their towel.

Mostly good-hearted folks here who will assist in whatever means they are able to or at least stay out of the way while someone else does.

I think most of the misinformation Chad was referring to is that which is in some of the instruction type forums (hitting/pitching) & some of the responses to medical questions.
I agree to a point as there are some real goofballs out there in some pitching forums (on this site & others). Also, have read some odd hitting theories in some in the hitting forums as well.
The best medical advice anyone on here could give is "get a referral to the best doctor you can".
I think Chad would agree the rest of the information on here about other topics is well-intentioned and generally accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Chad Durbin:
I want to improve the education of parents, coaches and athletes through this site. As far as the recruiting business...I don't promote or touch on that at all on here. Many of you work real jobs, correct, but you don't talk about real estate, mortage brokering or lumber yards on here. I play baseball for a living, #1...what would be better than to have someone who's job it is to study and play the game for a living talking shop on a website designed to educate on that exact subject??

As far as improvement of the site, realistically, not much can be done. Like you've all stated, it's an opinion oriented forum based on fact. I'm using the same approach I have with coaches through the years...each person has a different way of teaching and each has a way of learning. I have always took away from a teacher what applies to my situation and I can use. If a parent, coach or athlete is reading these forums I hope they take away from the posts what works for themselves rather than take it all as written in stone. Fire away...

I agree with 100% regarding giving out medical information on this site and have spoken up against it on several occassions. Actually I was thinking last night of thanking all of the resident HSBBW medical advisors for their opinions.
On a site such as this, it can become confusing at times as to what is actual fact and what is not. When I stumbled upon this site, I stayed and read for a reason, I wanted to hear about what PARENTS had to say about their experiences. Since there were obviously no written rules on recruiting, I tried to take what i learned from here and other information to put together a plan that would work for MY son. I admit and have admitted that I learned most AFTER son signed, and do have a source where I ask questions if I don't understand. I thank you for the compliment, but it's not all of my own. Many people know where I get my info from. If I am not sure it is a fact, will state JMO and have admitted on occasion I was wrong. I am just like anyone else, I am learning from parents in the process now one step ahead (infielddad, Fungo, OPP). It's up to me and me alone to decipher what is best and what is not. From posters such as PG and bbscout who are actually professionals in the business I take their professional word as gospel, but more importantly I enjoy their posts as parents more. I also do believe they as profesionals know when to give advice and when not to, let parents handle their own discussions as parents. This IS a website based on parents helping parents or players.
Being a professional player, I respect your opinions and advice that you have to give. If perhaps you see something that is posted that needs clarifying, please, you can help everyone. But remember, most of what you will tell us, is based upon your own experiences, not necessarily the right or wrong of the subject. As my son works towards the next level, your opinions and experiences would be welcomed.

A great thing to learn here is sometimes not is what is said but how it is said. And to clarify in a pm to you, I did tell you that after your 5th post coming on and telling us that you were gong to start a recruiting service I knew how you would be received. When you reclarified your position of advising players and parents to follow the right path I agreed with you 100% there is a need for that.

If you think that the advice that I give has some validity, I will state what I did in another post. Being a former player,coach, etc. who has gone through the recruitment and draft process, does not automatically qualify one to know all of the answers on the recruting process. There are thousands of coaches out there that run their recruiting programs differently, I am finding there is no ONE set of rules. But I have learned that parents giving examples of their experiences tells a parent what is good out there and what is not. And that is what it is all about, being educated, taking all that you have learned and applying it to your own situation.
Do not keep your opinions to yourself, but do try to keep the business side on the downside. If you come here giving great advice, it will help you more than you will know.
TPM

Edit:
Fungo,
Great post, always learning from you as to how to handle situations. Thanks.

Chad,

It took me a second to catch URKMB's joke but she is a very funny gal

If you ever make it back to Cleveland, send me a PM and drinks are on me. What is my take on all this? Free speech - you gotta love it
The good obviously comes with the not so good. IMHO, the site and the concept for the site cannot be improved upon. That is a difficult concept for some to handle - knowing when to leave well enough alone.

quote:

If you come here giving great advice, it will help you more than you will know.

Good "karma" will be bestowed ten-fold. Peace.

Chad,

First - Welcome to the best baseball site in the world!!!
Hopefully - as time passes and you become more experienced here - you will come to appreciate the value of the site and its many great contributors. You will also most likely make alot of new friends as well.

The way I see it - if you dont - it will be your loss - not ours.

Best of luck to you and your potential enjoyment of our great site.

Chad,

It goes without saying that most of us take each post and deterime whether it is germaine to our own ballplayer's situation or not. While I agree that medical advice should come from a medical professional, many of the other discussions come from people who have experienced these situations, like yourself.

Please share your experiences as you feel comfortable...I would love to hear them.

Chad,

I'm just curious... What makes your "pitching" advice better than anyone else's? Is it because you've played at a high level? Is it because you've taught someone that has reached a high level? Or is it because you've had Tommy John surgery?

Also, which of your wonderful categories would you put yourself in?

Jason

I learned a long time ago that just being a pro player doesnt make you an expert in any specific facet of the game--that only gets you in the door--then you have to prove yourself all over again just like any other person especially if you come in with an attitude

Chad,
Just an FYI since you might not know.
We have many parents who have played at your level, have sons that played or are now playing on teh same level you have reached. ML and MLB players join in to the discussion.

Also, as an example about this site, if I might need specifics on the draft, I might touch base with sons advisor. But frankly, I enjoy hearing parents of players point of view about the draft process, before, after more about the personal than the business side.

URKMB,
<giggle>

Chad,

I've found that the best way to digest leather is with a little humble pie....

Welcome and enjoy!

Chad,

Don't usually care to get too involved in these type discussions. With all due respect that your baseball experience deserves, I think you need to catagorize (10%/80%/10%) about your comments below.

You mentioned, in this thread, the "elbow pain" topic/question got under your skin.

quote:

Dad04,
You're right, the answers to elbow pain, shoulder pain, knee pain or anything else on the orthopaedic side of things is to head to your local orthopaedic doctor. YOU said it...and I agree. Not all advice is along those lines...but that's the beauty of the site....information abundance, intake is personal.

Then here is what you yourself posted answering the question regarding "Elbow Pain".

quote:

What part of the elbow is in pain and in what part of the throwing motion does it hurt? It could be forearm tightness or inflammation of the ulnar ligament. Running and cardio will promote more blood flowing to that region of the body due to longer raised heartrate level. A rice bucket exercise program would be a good idea, possibly. Take a normal size bucket from Home Depot or wherever and fill it about 75% with rice....put a baseball in the bucket, grip the ball and go through light pitching motions with the wrist and forearm. Take the ball out and dig the fingers in trying to get to the bottom...opening and closing the hand. Proper warming up and stretching prior to throwing workouts is something I'd suggest as well. Hope that gives you some help...anything else, post back to me. Thanks

While the above is very good information and advice coming from someone with much experience, I don't see any mention of a suggestion for seeking medical opinion. Which more than 90% of the people on this site would recommend and always have in similiar topics.

I sure hope you stick around. There's no question you have a lot to offer to many young players.

regarding the last post...the first ten or fifteen posts pointed toward the doctor and seeking medical attention. A parent commented on their son having gone to the doctor and everything was okay...I was giving advice as on what to do after seeing a physician.

You get an A on the homework, though!!

Chad

What do you do after seeing a physician?

Listen to a non medical person?

My advice-- see another doctor if not happy the first go 'round-- make sure it is a guy who knows what sports med and growth problems are all about

Speaking of homework--- as my kids grew up I had ortho docs who were involved with top pro teams as well as the therapists they were tied in with--perhaps because of them I know more about some sports "pains" than others but I wont prescribe--I will only recommend that they see a good sports/ortho doc