Cheating at the Showcase

why would they do that?? I see no reason for them to "cheat"

Perhaps this "observation" would best be addressed directly TO the people at Perfect Game. I am sure even PGStaff would gladly respond to a private message.

I don't understand, cheating who? Scouts have their own stopping watch, they don't need to read nonbody 60 yards times list.
For other part, Perfect Game is not going to do what you are suggesting, I am sorry.

Woops, mistakes happen. I was told this week that my son's stats were on the cape roster, hitting. One, he is here in FL, two, he's a pitcher. Don't believe everything you read. Scouts and recruiters use their own guns abd own stopwatches.
I agree, if you have some issues go to PG.
Limom,
There ya go again, trying to stir the pot. I hope that this thread is left here, to show everyone just how ridiculous you really are.

Players were electronically timed and they had a display where the colleges and mlb scouts could see the 60 yd times. Turf times are always faster than grass times.

Fastest times I had saw on day 1 on turf on PG Timers
Derrick Robinson 6.19
Riley Cooper 6.29
jeff Van Doornum 6.32
Brett Brewer 6.39
Toby Gerhart 6.40
Scott Robinson 6.44
Jeff Rapoport 6.47
Harold Smith 6.49

njbb-
It should be obvious to all those who have attended a showcase. BUT, for those of you who need it spelled out...Here's how it works.

First, they run you in the 60 yd. dash, then those times are posted. All the scouts and colleges get their sheets with these posted times and immediately look through them for the fast kids. These, they will watch very closely when they hit and throw. So, this kid would not draw the close attention during the rest of the showcase if he posted his true time. When this boy gets his chance to hit and throw, it's like someone saying over the loudspeaker, "Time Out! Everyone pay attention...The fast kid is going to hit and throw now!!" Meanwhile, some other poor slob who paid his entrance fee, airfare, and hotel, but ran a 7.25 did not get the "Time Out, Everyone pay attention!" deal.

I know, the next thing you will say is that they may notice that he's not that fast, BUT he has been NOTICED. And, that is what you go to the showcase for.

quote:

Originally posted by Dibble:
Players were electronically timed and they had a display where the colleges and mlb scouts could see the 60 yd times. Turf times are always faster than grass times.

Fastest times I had saw on day 1 on turf on PG Timers
Derrick Robinson 6.19
Riley Cooper 6.29
jeff Van Doornum 6.32
Brett Brewer 6.39
Toby Gerhart 6.40
Scott Robinson 6.44
Jeff Rapoport 6.47
Harold Smith 6.49

None of these boys, Dib. I would give you a range, but I don't think he deserves any more press. Can't wait to see his scouting report.


As for you, TigerPaw, why should this thread go away? I would be willing to put some real money on this one in a bet - on turf or even downhill.

Limom,
Because you continue to come on to try to discredit as many as you can. Seen it many times. Why would you come here to discredit the showcase?
You don't have to tell us about showcases, many of us have been there and done that.
How do you know what the player did that day, did you post the time?
And yes, you are correct, if those players post a good time, they are going to be noticed. Same goes for the pitcher throwing over 90.

TPM-
You don't think cheating goes on?? How naive can you be?

I, am not naive.
The difference between us is that if I had an issue, I would go to the showcase directors.

TPM-
What good will that do? He was already seen by colleges and he is waiting for his phone call July 1st that should have gone to that other dumb schmuck who ran a 7.25.

limon84, I've heard of conspiracy theories but this one baffles me. Why is PG successful? Why do so many universities and colleges send their head coaches and recruiters to their events? Why do MLB teams pay to get PG information? The number one reason is credibility. Period. IMO, if there was ever a discovery of intentionally changing a time or velocity Pg would risk losing everything. How can you so matter- of- factly make these charges?

If I were you I'd worry about slandering and making accusations against an organization, that has helped so many players, that cannot be verified.

This is not slander as I am posting a fact. If this did not happen at another showcase with the same kid, I never would have noticed.

The proof lies in the stopwatch. I am simply noticing something that went on. All I am saying is that they got this kid's time wrong. I did not say PG was cheating. I said that cheating goes on...

limom,

Your post is trivial and reeks of parental jealousy. Do you have any solid proof that this young man's time was changed, purposely?

Evidently, you don't understand the word slander. Your comments are slanderous, towards the PG staff, incase you don't understand. The PG staff is responsible for the information posted.

Give me a break......
David

Look, there is a way to "cheat" the electronic timer, but I believe PG dealt with this a while back. It didn't help you with hand timers, though, and that's what pro scouts go by.

The way to do it was to start ever-so-slightly behind the start point. Then you would get the "advantage" of momentum at the start. This is as opposed to the way it is hand timed, which goes by first movement.

But even if you could cheat the start, it wouldn't make more than about a one- or two-tenth difference. And it helps you ZERO with those hand-timing.

And yes, turf times should be much faster than grass times, perhaps as much as two-tenths faster. Of course, the scouts there know the deal and take it into consideration.

My oldest as a high school senior had times as low as 6.7 and as high as 7.1, all on grass, but sometimes wet and soft, sometimes hard and dry. In probably 30 clockings, his average was right at 6.9.

So, if the so-called cheat can still be done and you're running on turf, a 7.2 runner can theorically be 6.8 with his own legs.

limon84, seems as if you're stirring up trouble when, really, nothing you're saying sounds terribly out of whack. Unless he didn't run it at all, which is a different subject altogether.

Again with the speed thing--what is your fixation with speed--it is only one tool

LIMOM--you have a major problem--a very major problem--As I have said before you are person who is quite jealous of others and you do nothing but try and "smear" others. You tried it on me and now you try it on PG--

You use the term "legend"==you are one in your own mind--totally delusional and warped

quote:

that other dumb schmuck who ran a 7.25

(I wonder who THIS could be....)

Wow, I've never encountered anyone who paid SO much attention to the Joneses. Do you live on Wisteria Lane?

Dumb schmuck? You take the cake.....

David

liemom, no need to spell it out,I have attended show cases. my son ran a 7.4 60, at Team One, The coaches still watched and he recieved many offers from D1 schools .
I wouldnt want any young players who runs a 7.2 6o time or is under 6' tall to think they will not get a 2nd look, there is so much more that goes into scouting, Go to show cases do your best and good things will happen.

Limom,

It is a bit amazing that you care so much about others.

FYI, we use laser timing and we also use stopwatch times. Usually the laser time is about 1 tenth faster than stopwatch. Once in awhile the stopwatch time is actually faster. This usually happens if the runner has somehow leaned and tripped the laser beam early.

I can assure you that no one cheats! The times are displayed for everyone to see as the runner crosses the finish line. They all have to start at the same position.

Every single player at the PG National deserves close observation. Whether they run well or not! One of the slowest runners in the event was selected for the Aflac Classic. It's because he was one of the very best hitters! No one erased him from the list because he didn't run a good time.

We welcome your comments and opinions. If nothing else, everyone else in baseball understands that we are "HONEST"! It's the #1 most important thing in our business. We would get no respect without complete honesty.

Sorry that you are troubled by a time someone received. I don't understand why this bothers you so much. But for your info... Players don't always run the same time each and every time out.

These were absolutely ideal running conditions in Atlanta. The fastest time we ever recorded in 10 years of laser timing happened at Georgia Tech last week. The 6.19 is one of the fastest times ever recorded in history by any baseball player.

Don't worry about what others do... Nobody is going to fool MLB scouts and top college coaches. And we sure as hell aren't interested in trying to fool anyone! We don't have favorites that we cheat for!

I just checked the names of the boys from NY who ran 6.8 or better. I personally watched 2 of the 3 run and they both ran very well. I paid attention to these two because I had met their fathers earlier and was amongst those in the crowd watching. Add to this the fact that in the games that followed, they had a combined 6 stolen bases. Quite an accomplishment considering the quality of the pitchers and catchers.

So, I'm not sure who you are talking about but these two are pretty legit players attracting a lot of attention.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Merc:
I just checked the names of the boys from NY who ran 6.8 or better. I personally watched 2 of the 3 run and they both ran very well. I paid attention to these two because I had met their fathers earlier and was amongst those in the crowd watching. Add to this the fact that in the games that followed, they had a combined 6 stolen bases. Quite an accomplishment considering the quality of the pitchers and catchers.

So, I'm not sure who you are talking about but these two are pretty legit players attracting a lot of attention.

That is just what I have been saying. Do all the kids actually run or are some times pencilled in from when they ran at another event held by people associated with the showcase. I think that OldVaMan hit the nail on the head when he said that it is a different subject altogether if the kid didn't run it all...

P.S. While the kid did attend my son's HS, he is not necessarily from NY as my son attends a private school.

quote:

P.S. While the kid did attend my son's HS, he is not necessarily from NY as my son attends a private school.

Limom,

Who really cares, other than you? Do the right thing....apologize to the PG Staff, and go conjour up another over the top post.

David

limom,

Of course the times are not penciled in from another event. Do you think we are fools?

There were over 200 scouts and college coaches there, including many of the highest level scouts in baseball and many top 40 DI coaches. Do you think we would simply pencil something in and try to fool everyone?

Also we did not post the running times until after the BP was over. If they (the scouts and recruiters) didn't have their own times written down, they had to watch all the players hit!

All the running, hitting, fielding and games were on one field. Do you think scouts and recruiters take a nap when the not so fast kids are performing?

Cheating is not an option for us. What would be the purpose? What is your purpose for making these comments?

Limom,

Above the rest of this, I once used the term "schmuck" in a real estate closing, explaining rights to use of a right of way. A few days later, one ofthe parties, a nice elderly Jewish lady, explained to me, to my chagrin, what the term meant in yiddish-apparently a male body part. I was embarrased. You should be too.

Pure garbage topic.

As expected.

LOL

hokieone,
I think limon knew exactly what the term meant.
And I think limom knew the system wouldn't recognize it so therefore was used by her/him on purpose.

The word in yiddish does not mean a man's body part, rather a yiddish made up slang word used to describe someone as more or less as a dumb you know what!

If Perfect Game says that each of the boys was clocked in the sixty at that event than my hat goes off to this kid and I am truly sorry for making that accusation. The thing is, the fix was done with this particular kid at another showcase (Non Perfect Game Event) and seeing his extraordinary time, for him, at the National Showcase caused me to jump to conclusions.

Thank you Perfect Game for your explanation on how the showcase is run and again I apologize for questioning the events integrity.

Also could you explain why some kids ran on grass while the others ran on turf.

Too late LIEmon.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
hokieone,
I think limon knew exactly what the term meant.
And I think limom knew the system wouldn't recognize it so therefore was used by her/him on purpose.

The word in yiddish does not mean a man's body part, rather a yiddish made up slang word used to describe someone as more or less as a dumb you know what!

3 entries found for shmuck.
schmuck also shmuck
( P ) Pronunciation Key (shmk)
n. Slang
A clumsy or stupid person; an oaf.

Limom,
Give it up, you were wrong on everything in this thread, stop trying to be cutsie with us.

Limom,
I am really disturbed by your accusations against PG.

Neither of mine have ever been to a PG event, although my 02 was invited.

I have ALOT of friends who have sons that have attended different PG events. Even ones who were not standouts, never had a bad word to say.

I have never met Jerry Ford, but feel I "know" him from this board and different conversations we have had. INTEGRITY and HONESTY, has built his business.

I think you need to rethink your statements.

So give me what? An hour to google names and know who on that list goes to a private schools?

Why not just tell us who your son is?

Limom doesnt need to rethink the statements.

Limom just needs to stop making the statements.

LOL

Pure garbage.

Limon why has your son attended a PG event? Have you ever attended a PG event? If you have tell us about your experience and your sons. Tell us about your son. Where is he playing this summer and what year is he? What showcase events has he attended and what coaches have seen him play? Maybe instead of focusing on everyone else you should spend more time focusing on your son and what he is doing to better himself. My 08 has been invited to a PG event and he is planning to attend one this fall. He plays on the 18u Carolina Cubs here in NC. I know numerous kids that have attended PG events and all of them have had nothing to say but great things about the events and the people they met. All the coaches that I know have nothing to say but good things about PG. Do you believe that there is a conspiracy against your son? Why?

Itsinthegame you have a pm. I was in Huntersville today.

Back at you, Coach May.

Just my final thought about this topic.
For parents who are just beginning the journey, for those on teh journey, do not hesitate to think that "cheating" goes on at a scouting event or tournament. I cannot speak about other showcases, my son only attended a few, and they were run by PG.
Every player is given a report by PG. Maybe every player is not scouted by every coach or scout who attends, one of the reasons why it is important to attend more than one event (not particularly a PG event). Maybe yours might not be the one who draws the large crowd that day. Or maybe yours just wasn't "on" that day. It is a process. Everyone knows it, scouts, coaches and even the people running the event. A player doesn't have to run his fastest time, hit a HR or throw in the 90's. Coaches from all types of programs are looking for different things. A recruiter from a D3 has different expectations than a recruiter from a top D1. Honestly, I don't know of one single person who attended an event, camp and was not recruited by someone. Even that one offer, might be one more than he might have had just playing HS ball. I am sure there are some out there.
Two years ago at PG National in Nebraska, mine had just come off of pitching a few days before and it was noted in his report as such. I think that every player is given a fair assesment. If the parent doesn't agree, ususally they are the parent that disagrees with every assesment given of their son.
Do not let one unhappy parent (or two or three) make you think that you might waste your money. That is something for you and your son to decide later on. The showcases are an excellent tool in helping you and your player to realize how he measures up to his peers. Sometimes you are pleasantly surprised, sometimes you might be disappointed.

Check your pm again itsinthegame.

Great post TPM as usual.