Classless Coach

Boy that guy sounds like the whole package. Can I be his business partner?

I coached for a long time. I never heard of cut the corner play. I am old school. work on fundamentals and all that. am i missing something here. Has the game passed me by? Is this the new breed of coach?

1) In all of my years, I have never seen it nor could I imagine an umpire crew falling for it.

2) Why send an anonymous email? Why wouldn't you send it under your own name?

I have been a victim to this play. And umpires will fall for it if there are 2 of them. If they are properly in position, they will not be looking at the runner on 2nd.

I also warned the umps about the play but it didnt make a difference.

The end result was me being restricted to my dugout.

Ive seen this done a couple of times. Once in a state playoff game. I immediately lost all respect for the coach of the team running the play. I would just make sure the umpires were aware of it. Also any coach that would teach this kind of play is more than willing to do other things to cheat the game. And yes he is a classless coach.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I coached for a long time. I never heard of cut the corner play. I am old school. work on fundamentals and all that. am i missing something here. Has the game passed me by? Is this the new breed of coach?

Will, I too am old school. However, we had to practice defending this play this year. In doing so, we asked our 3rd baseman and SS to scream the instant that the runner hit our infield grass when cutting the corner. This give the ump a good view if done loudly enough. We also had our bench prepare. I really can't explain why we, as a coaching community, have come to this. What about integrity, honesty, and a sense of doing what is right? I suppose that baseball mirrors society where "cutting corners" has become acceptable as long as you are not caught.

next time, instruct your SS to tackle the runner who is "cutting the corner", and please let me know what is the umpire call when he see your SS over the runner behind the pitcher box.

quote:

I really can't explain why we, as a coaching community, have come to this. What about integrity, honesty, and a sense of doing what is right?

People only do what you let them. Not ot sound too old you just did not do that stuff years ago. Why? I think the answer is in the above quote.

I personally never taught it, but have seen it used/attempted at times ...

when it did happen I didn't lose sleep over it

quote:

by SMM: I've already told son what I think about it, and that I don't want to see him doing it if the situation arises. What do you think, is it too much to ask a kid to go against the coach?

imo ya send a confusing message with that viewpoint,
IF you do feel that strongly that the coach is a bum you have no choice but to pull your son from that team & find another one ...

but don't expect a short list as that play isn't all that uncommon in youth/hs baseball

A year or two ago our local umpire association was warned about that play and was instructed to toss the coach and report it.

I like Racab's suggestion.

I've never seen this done or heard of it before. In all the various states we've played in I've never seen a team try this. Maybe I'm just lucky.

seems less about a specific play & MORE about your son playing for a guy you've defined as a cheatin' bum when playing for him is your choice

tho .. sometimes "situational ethics" is easier than sticking to your values

OR

maybe you jumped the gun judging him as a cheatin' bum



talk about painting yourself into a corner

That's some dirty dirty pool.

I've never heard of this before, and I've seen some pretty weird and strange plays. but nothing like that. WOW, you must be pretty desperate to pull that play.

This is definitely cheating...no ifs, ands or buts about it!

quote:

by K: I've never heard of this before, and I've seen some pretty weird and strange plays.

factoring in the exchange rate, the (short) cut at 3B is barely noticable when executed north of the border

played on a team with a called play that would pretend the thrown ball from 2 - 4 was missed and in center field. Hated that, only worked once. Guess what? The other coach told all the other coaches, it's a small community.

We have had an opposing coach call the wrong base on throw ins. He will make a fuss about nothing trying to ice the pitcher, ot the batter. The umps have his number and is regularly tossed from games. Since it is all about making money in travel ball, I guess he will coach as long as his son wants to play. Son couldn't play for any other team.

But I think we are about through with travel, HS coaches don't pull those stunts do they?

Any coach using this play is an embarassment to the profession. Of course, I feel the same way about guys who cut the grass (or don't) a certain way to speed up / slow down the ball or those that leave a lip on the baselines to help with bunting.
I don't think this perspective has anything to do with being "old school" - I believe it's called ETHICS! Talk to this coach personally - an anonymous email won't do a thing. Voice your concerns over playing the game in this fashion....but make sure he understands that you won't talk behind his back & won't try to undercut him - you're just a concerned parent who wants his kid to learn the game the right way.
good luck - Coach Knight

The summer after 8th grade my son was pitching in a game against a team made up of kids who had been juniors, he had given up a few home runs and they were beating him 8-2, (I got there in the 5th) but the 3rd base coach would walk up the line while staring at my son and make loud comments like "HIT THE PITCHER BETWEEN THE EYES" and things of that nature. I thought that was going a bit too far but it was my little kid that he was trying to rattle so I'd guess it bothered me more than anyone.

We had a crazy little league coach who would clap, shout instructions to his batter and take at least 3 strides towards home when our pitchers were winding up and going home. This was irritating and unsportsmanlike.

But he wasn't done.

He tried to walk with his player on third all the way home after the 2nd out of the inning, yelling for his kids to get on the field to try to steal a run. Luckily I saw him do it and told the catcher to tag him and we got an easy out.

It was the worst BS I had ever seen in 8 years of Little League.

Where are the league officials when this stuff is going on?

His wife was League President.

quote:

. . but the 3rd base coach would walk up the line while staring at my son and make loud comments like "HIT THE PITCHER BETWEEN THE EYES" and things of that nature.

Sounds like a great opportunity for your pitcher to throw an inside pitch to a pull hitter.

What a doorknob! I have watched & coached hundreds of youth baseball games and have never seen anyone blatently cheat like that. Hmmmm... Maybe I was watching the bunt too and missed it! Doubt it. IF an opposing coach tried that on me, I would immediatly let him know what I thought of him and his lack of respect for his players and the game.

I took much of this answer from a previous post in the umpire forum, but Ill offer it here....

I'm sure as most of you know that these types of plays have been around forever and that it takes advantage of one of the known deficiencies of the 2 man umpiring system.....as noted before, this cant happen in 3 man, but you almost never see 3 man in HS until the playoffs.....

Although the 2 man system can make it very difficult for the umpiring crew to see all the unfolding action and related touches in this play, it does not alleviate us from the responsiblity of those touches......

In training young umpires, we tell them to follow the ball, and glance at the runners...and it is in training that the time to follow and time to glance is prioritized.

Most often I will throw the glance towards the touch at 3rd......Ive based this decision on a number of factors....Ive been in this situation hundreds of times....I look at the runner on second if he is the less speedy clean up hitter, I may lean more to staying on the tag of home and the play at first....if its the speedster shortstop......its decision time......

Ive also been the HP umpire when a coach did call this play and as you all know even though the stands saw the cut base at third......I cant call what I didnt see.....

Ive also been the HP umpire when the player cut the bag and my glance caught him entering the grass cutout well ahead of the base......the 3rd base coach also saw me see it......he attempted the call the runner back and the first baseman gunned him out trying to get back to the bag.....

Is it bush?.......I'll leave that to you to decide...