Skip to main content

c5tx posted:

DesertDuck...that stinks.  I don't understand what is going on with these coaches.  We showed the email my son received to both the coordinator of his select team (who is very experienced with recruiting and contacting college coaches) as well as my son's pitching coach who has had several of his pitchers commit to D1 schools over the years.  The select coordinator said "Congratulations" and the pitching coach stated the email is as strong as it gets.  It was practically an invite to the program. They see these emails all the time.   I do think it is crappy to get a kid's hopes up with that kind of email and then go quiet.  Wish he had never sent it if he wasn't serious.  I really think he owes it to my kid to reply and say I went with another prospect or I made a mistake, etc.  

 

TPM...it was more than an interest letter.  It was a "we hope you will come play at our school" letter.  

Does it stink? Maybe. But I look at it like this.....If this is how they behave during the 'courting' process of the relationship, imagine how the boy gets treated once the papers are signed and he 'moves in'? I'm just glad they are showing us their true colors now vs. finding out later when it's a whole lot harder to file and complete the divorce!

Much prefer they cross themselves off the list on their own, than me having to do a bunch of research, guess and be wrong.

Non verbal communication is a powerful thing. The one who reads it correctly...WINS!

* Do you play poker? Every single action or inaction is a 'tell'. Read the tells correctly and your odds of winning skyrocket. But always position yourself so that you don't lose your whole stack if you miss the read!

It's all just a f'kn game (like life). Do everything you can to stack the odds in your favor!

Last edited by DesertDuck

Duck...I think you are right.  The coach's true colors are shining through with his awful communication.  I hope your kid finds the best team with upstanding coaches.  We are looking at the D3's and some are much better academically.  Coach attitude is important.  A close relative of mine was a pitcher at a major D1 in the 80s and the head coach was a first class jerk.  I truly don't want that for my son.  So maybe this is a blessing in disguise.  Praying both our kids end up in the best possible fit for them both in athletics and academics.

C5TX and Desert,  as TPM is trying to share, the "no response" is very much a normal part of the process for a variety of reasons and regardless of how serious the interest.  Timing, place on the board, having ducks in a row, waiting for yes or no from others, waiting for academic/admittance info, busy with countless other tasks, etc., etc.

It seems wrong and impersonable and, in many cases, it very well may be.  But, C5TX, if you interpret this as intentional misrepresentation from an event, it is most likely misguided.  Several players coming out of my program have experienced the "no response" after meaningful dialog.  One of my own sons was several conversations deep with the RC and, then HC, was told on a Friday that an offer would be presented before the end of the weekend, never heard from them again.  It happens.  Don't take offense or scratch the team off the list.  Move on to the next school or five.  That first school may come back at some point.  Same son was deep in conversations with another school who also cut off communication.  Son was not happy but moved on.  Fast forward... his senior year of college, he transferred... to THAT school.  Turns out the HC had cut off communication the first time around because he was very close to accepting a job at a different school.  He didn't want to bring son on only to not be there for him.  But, there was no way he could tell a potential recruit that he was considering a move for obvious reasons.  Not so obvious when you are going thru silence.  Son went on to have a great year for this coach and is now an assistant coach for the guy.

Desert, I know your "hey coach, we have a board too" was probably mostly toungue-in-cheek (and actually pretty funny) but I'm hoping this helps your outlook toward the process and non-communication as well.  And, always keep in mind, the fraternity is far smaller and closer than any of us realize.

Also, keep in mind, the motivation and actions are quite different and often opposite when comparing D1 and D3.  D1 has limited scholarships to spread, the D3 has none and is often quite motivated by bringing on as many players as are willing to pay some substantial portion of tuition.  So, that D3 coach is far more likely to be more responsive - not always with purist motive.

Last edited by cabbagedad

CSTX,

Communication is essential to this process.  As you have now learned, your expectations and timetable is different from the coaches reaching out to your son.   There is an old saying on HSBBWeb..."the recruits timetable is typically not the same as the coaches timetable".    This is because there is vastly more supply of recruits than than there is demand.  The coaches make the rules and the decisions.   When they are ready to move forward with your son, you'll know it.  Your son should continue to reach out with updates, milestones and requests to visit campus for coaches he's already met.   He should also be reaching out to programs that interest him.  This is essential at this time.  Call and follow up with an email.

The coach is busy trying to get additional recruits to campus or to showcase events to see them play again and then make  decisions with either his boss (HC) or more coaches on who to offer from their pool of recruits.   On the other hand, you  and your son are trying to make a decision what schools are really interested in my son and which ones are the best fit.   And so the late D1 and D3 recruiting kabuki dance begins...I experienced it several years ago with my son who attended HeadFirst and then was urged by coaches to attend several prospect camps as a follow up to get additional eyes on him.  My son prioritized several prospect camp choices.  We attended one camp and he was offered.   We were done.   I'm simplifying two years of recruiting, but those were the important and meaningful highlights.  The coaches moved very quickly when it was in their best interest.

As others have said, don't take it personally.  This is how business is conducted.  It is a hurry up and slow down process that is maddening.  But you can be assured of a couple things.   First the coach wants to recruit the best possible kids he can get through admissions and the coach wants to win baseball games to keep his job.

As you are going through this I suggest you think like a coach not a parent.   Listen to what they say, and more importantly what they don't say.  Their motivations are clear as day.   

As always, JMO.

Last edited by fenwaysouth

Thank you Fenway....I will try to be patient.  In the meantime, we will schedule visits with the D3 schools.  D1 sounds exciting, but at the end of the day, I want my kid to be in the best academic school possible.  I know the D1 coaches are still attending events every weekend and school has not yet started at the D1.  I am not taking it personally...he is on their radar and I am guessing several other pitchers are as well.  I appreciate your response.  Good luck to your son.  

Desert,

Wow, seems identical to my 2018's experience this week.  Received a text from HC right after camp (D3 that consistently wins 30 plus games a year) --he also crushed the ball during game, threw a laser to get someone at home from RF, and also K'd 3 out of 5 batters he faced...HC text, "you did really well, we will be in contact"....day later, HC called and talked his performance, confirmed his grades/SAT, and then told him that they want to get him up for an official visit soon to talk baseball and school...yesterday son sent text with fall schedule, HC said he probably wouldn't be able to get out to see him but good luck...2018 responded and told him blah, blah, thanks and looking forward to getting back up there soon to talk baseball and learn about the school....HC responded "Thanks, keep me updated".

It does seem the interest fizzled, but who knows what these guys think...

While now thinking about how busy they are removes some of my questions, i still have the question of what "keep me updated" actually means?

 

The recruiting process is one of the most mind-bending experiences… period.  Only now that we have come out the other side do I have the utmost respect for the coaches out there that are direct and clear in their communications.

LC5TX/Texas 2 Sons/Desert Duck — Fenway captured the current situation perfectly.  For example:  The Asst Coach/RC at my son’s D3 school welcomed the 2017 class to campus this weekend (my son is a 2017) — while the head coach was up recruiting at Harvard’s camp this weekend (after sitting through at HeadFirst in Long Island.). The only reason the HC was out recruiting is that the RC has been on the road for most of June and July — so he gave him a break.  The summer is brutal for D3 coaching.  If a coach tells your son to keep in touch — then do just that.  

This process isn’t personal — its business.  Hang in there.

MAM posted:

The recruiting process is one of the most mind-bending experiences… period.  Only now that we have come out the other side do I have the utmost respect for the coaches out there that are direct and clear in their communications.

LC5TX/Texas 2 Sons/Desert Duck — Fenway captured the current situation perfectly.  For example:  The Asst Coach/RC at my son’s D3 school welcomed the 2017 class to campus this weekend (my son is a 2017) — while the head coach was up recruiting at Harvard’s camp this weekend (after sitting through at HeadFirst in Long Island.). The only reason the HC was out recruiting is that the RC has been on the road for most of June and July — so he gave him a break.  The summer is brutal for D3 coaching.  If a coach tells your son to keep in touch — then do just that.  

This process isn’t personal — its business.  Hang in there.

EXACTLY!!!!

What you described happens in all levels.  DK began his new position about 5 weeks ago, he has probably slept out of town more nights than in town.  I think he has had 2 days off. 

If a coach tells you to keep in touch, do it.  

Keeping the coach updated means letting them know where you will be playing the next few months, they have NO way of knowing that unless you tell them. Right?

 

 

I guess one more to echo the same sentiment although you will find some coaches who are simply unorganized.  One school (who will remain nameless) would reach out to my son and ask if he could talk to him.  We'd answer the email and the guy would go dark.  After doing that twice, we figured their poor record is somewhat self-explanatory.  

Advice for life:  Keep a thick skin, and give people the benefit of the doubt.  As a parent, we are thinking constantly about our son(s).  These coaches have a big group of kids showing up on campus right now to think about.  Don't assume that because other priorities are taking up their time this week, that your son is not a priority - he just isn't a priority this week.

Just to add a little more perspective to this thread, I'll discuss an experience my 2017 had with a Power 5 D1 school.  He went to their camp the fall of his senior year (last fall), and was one of the only kids they talked to at the camp.  The coaches were generally not present during most of the camp, but when he pitched they all came out to watch.  After he was done, he was called out to sit with the pitching coach behind the screen behind home.  No other kid got this treatment.  They asked for his transcripts and test scores as soon as he got home, which he sent them.  They confirmed that they were officially recruiting him and they would be in touch as  they tracked his application through the process.

Then, basically nothing.  This was my son's top choice, but he quickly became confused and bitter.  Months passed and other schools were more aggressive in their communications, weekly texts, knew what he had for dinner, knew the girlfriend's name.  But all he got from the P5 school was an email every 3-5 weeks with some message about how they were still tracking his application.  Five and a half months and three offers later, he let the P5 school know that he was no longer considering them.  Thanked them for the interest, etc.

Immediately he gets an email wanting phone numbers of coaches, etc.  Within two days, the P5 school called him and offered the best deal he had to that point.  But he was so disillusioned by that experience that he said no thanks.  Whether that was the right thing to do or not, that's how he felt.  It had really gotten to him.  Anyway, the point of this story is that you really never know what's going on behind the scenes.  Some schools are simply not as good at it.  Some schools may have players they like more and are stringing you along.  Who really knows.  Just know that unless you're an obvious stud, these stories are not unique.  Many fine folks have gone through the same thing.

phillyinNJ posted:

Desert,

Wow, seems identical to my 2018's experience this week.  Received a text from HC right after camp (D3 that consistently wins 30 plus games a year) --he also crushed the ball during game, threw a laser to get someone at home from RF, and also K'd 3 out of 5 batters he faced...HC text, "you did really well, we will be in contact"....day later, HC called and talked his performance, confirmed his grades/SAT, and then told him that they want to get him up for an official visit soon to talk baseball and school...yesterday son sent text with fall schedule, HC said he probably wouldn't be able to get out to see him but good luck...2018 responded and told him blah, blah, thanks and looking forward to getting back up there soon to talk baseball and learn about the school....HC responded "Thanks, keep me updated".

It does seem the interest fizzled, but who knows what these guys think...

While now thinking about how busy they are removes some of my questions, i still have the question of what "keep me updated" actually means?

 

During his junior season, my son had a list of about 10 coaches who had said "keep me updated" and every time he pitched he rode home from games with me. I drove, he sat in the passenger seat and composed a text with the highlights of his performance, always mentioning what a great job his team did or some excellent play someone made supporting him.

When he did well, he said that. When he had a bad inning or two (and he didn't have many) he said it, and said what he wanted to work on to do better. He NEVER complained about umpires, crowds, teammates The only negatives were things like "I don't think my curve was working as well as I'd like. I'm going to be working on my grip in practice this week and work to get more control." Or something along those lines.

And then he copied and pasted it to all 10 coaches.

Some of the schools had made offers, some had just said "keep me updated."

The highest end D1 he had been texting finally sent their HC, RC and finally PC to see him pitch after pretty much ignoring him all summer. This week, he got a handwritten note from the PC saying they want to see "what we can do to get you in a (team name) uniform."

We'll see where it leads, but what I took from it is persistence does pay.

Lots of good information and stories around why coaches may or may not communicate well - in this case going into the fall semester coming off summer recruiting and getting a new class a freshman settled in.  While the information here is good, I would suggest that it can be very helpful to get some opinions from others about the actual character of the coaches themselves.  Not being able to juggle/multi-task numerous activities simultaneously should not be the sole factor in forming an opinion as to whether that coaching staff, as well as the program itself (coaches do leave occasionally), will benefit your son more that some other program that seems to respond ever time within 15 minutes.  If the coaches have a poor reputation (as expressed by folks with good reputations or truly knowledgeable), then they should be removed from your list despite their promptness.  Quality coaches should be given given the benefit of the doubt as the payoff to your kid will be substantial.

SSBuckeye posted:

Just to add a little more perspective to this thread, I'll discuss an experience my 2017 had with a Power 5 D1 school.  He went to their camp the fall of his senior year (last fall), and was one of the only kids they talked to at the camp.  The coaches were generally not present during most of the camp, but when he pitched they all came out to watch.  After he was done, he was called out to sit with the pitching coach behind the screen behind home.  No other kid got this treatment.  They asked for his transcripts and test scores as soon as he got home, which he sent them.  They confirmed that they were officially recruiting him and they would be in touch as  they tracked his application through the process.

Then, basically nothing.  This was my son's top choice, but he quickly became confused and bitter.  Months passed and other schools were more aggressive in their communications, weekly texts, knew what he had for dinner, knew the girlfriend's name.  But all he got from the P5 school was an email every 3-5 weeks with some message about how they were still tracking his application.  Five and a half months and three offers later, he let the P5 school know that he was no longer considering them.  Thanked them for the interest, etc.

Immediately he gets an email wanting phone numbers of coaches, etc.  Within two days, the P5 school called him and offered the best deal he had to that point.  But he was so disillusioned by that experience that he said no thanks.  Whether that was the right thing to do or not, that's how he felt.  It had really gotten to him.  Anyway, the point of this story is that you really never know what's going on behind the scenes.  Some schools are simply not as good at it.  Some schools may have players they like more and are stringing you along.  Who really knows.  Just know that unless you're an obvious stud, these stories are not unique.  Many fine folks have gone through the same thing.

What I take from this story is the player had better think long and had about how he felt during the recruiting process. Poor communications skills and lack of follow up tend to follow a person, coach and / or an organization across everything they do. if they frustrated you quite a bit, you felt ignored or generally not in the plan as they were attempting to recruit you why would it change once they actually have you...?? It sounds like the young married couple who complains that they thought the partner would change after they got married!!

My guess is your son made a good choice regardless of the offer being better at the end.

old_school posted:
SSBuckeye posted:

Just to add a little more perspective to this thread, I'll discuss an experience my 2017 had with a Power 5 D1 school.  He went to their camp the fall of his senior year (last fall), and was one of the only kids they talked to at the camp.  The coaches were generally not present during most of the camp, but when he pitched they all came out to watch.  After he was done, he was called out to sit with the pitching coach behind the screen behind home.  No other kid got this treatment.  They asked for his transcripts and test scores as soon as he got home, which he sent them.  They confirmed that they were officially recruiting him and they would be in touch as  they tracked his application through the process.

Then, basically nothing.  This was my son's top choice, but he quickly became confused and bitter.  Months passed and other schools were more aggressive in their communications, weekly texts, knew what he had for dinner, knew the girlfriend's name.  But all he got from the P5 school was an email every 3-5 weeks with some message about how they were still tracking his application.  Five and a half months and three offers later, he let the P5 school know that he was no longer considering them.  Thanked them for the interest, etc.

Immediately he gets an email wanting phone numbers of coaches, etc.  Within two days, the P5 school called him and offered the best deal he had to that point.  But he was so disillusioned by that experience that he said no thanks.  Whether that was the right thing to do or not, that's how he felt.  It had really gotten to him.  Anyway, the point of this story is that you really never know what's going on behind the scenes.  Some schools are simply not as good at it.  Some schools may have players they like more and are stringing you along.  Who really knows.  Just know that unless you're an obvious stud, these stories are not unique.  Many fine folks have gone through the same thing.

What I take from this story is the player had better think long and had about how he felt during the recruiting process. Poor communications skills and lack of follow up tend to follow a person, coach and / or an organization across everything they do. if they frustrated you quite a bit, you felt ignored or generally not in the plan as they were attempting to recruit you why would it change once they actually have you...?? It sounds like the young married couple who complains that they thought the partner would change after they got married!!

My guess is your son made a good choice regardless of the offer being better at the end.

I agree with your thoughts on this.  For me, some of the stuff I have read in this thread on coaches would be a huge red flag.  

old_school posted:
SSBuckeye posted:

Just to add a little more perspective to this thread, I'll discuss an experience my 2017 had with a Power 5 D1 school.  He went to their camp the fall of his senior year (last fall), and was one of the only kids they talked to at the camp.  The coaches were generally not present during most of the camp, but when he pitched they all came out to watch.  After he was done, he was called out to sit with the pitching coach behind the screen behind home.  No other kid got this treatment.  They asked for his transcripts and test scores as soon as he got home, which he sent them.  They confirmed that they were officially recruiting him and they would be in touch as  they tracked his application through the process.

Then, basically nothing.  This was my son's top choice, but he quickly became confused and bitter.  Months passed and other schools were more aggressive in their communications, weekly texts, knew what he had for dinner, knew the girlfriend's name.  But all he got from the P5 school was an email every 3-5 weeks with some message about how they were still tracking his application.  Five and a half months and three offers later, he let the P5 school know that he was no longer considering them.  Thanked them for the interest, etc.

Immediately he gets an email wanting phone numbers of coaches, etc.  Within two days, the P5 school called him and offered the best deal he had to that point.  But he was so disillusioned by that experience that he said no thanks.  Whether that was the right thing to do or not, that's how he felt.  It had really gotten to him.  Anyway, the point of this story is that you really never know what's going on behind the scenes.  Some schools are simply not as good at it.  Some schools may have players they like more and are stringing you along.  Who really knows.  Just know that unless you're an obvious stud, these stories are not unique.  Many fine folks have gone through the same thing.

What I take from this story is the player had better think long and had about how he felt during the recruiting process. Poor communications skills and lack of follow up tend to follow a person, coach and / or an organization across everything they do. if they frustrated you quite a bit, you felt ignored or generally not in the plan as they were attempting to recruit you why would it change once they actually have you...?? It sounds like the young married couple who complains that they thought the partner would change after they got married!!

My guess is your son made a good choice regardless of the offer being better at the end.

Yep, you pretty much nailed it.  My 2017 and I discussed at length the challenge with P5 programs.  That even though athletic dollars are guaranteed, there are ways to work around that.  There can be so much pressure to win that players get caught up in it.  We'd talked about how some of the mid major schools might actually be a little more secure if they showed interest.  So when his basically dream school interacted with him in that manner, he told me they weren't really that sold on him and wasn't comfortable with what might happen if he got injured or struggled his freshman year.  My 2017 is an old soul, way more mature than I was at that age.  He made a wise decision even though the temptation would be there for many to ignore those signs.

Getting recruited by a Power 5 school that regularly recruits 12-15 new players every year - AND being either #12 or #15 - is going to be tough.  That player will be a great player and will get tons of love from lesser D1 programs while it feels like the Power 5 guys don't really care.  Not sure what folks expect.  If you are actually #20, or #3 or #4 for a specific position, then they will "string you along" because they currently have no room for you until those above you on the board fall off for some reason (they prefer the guys ranked ahead of you for whatever reason).  Being on the bubble will be uncomfortable.  Going Power 5 as the last guy picked up will be uncomfortable and may not be a great choice.  But to shred the coaches because they don't spell it out in black and white ("Look, you are our backup pick and both Joey and Bobby have to fall off before we seriously consider you - so you chance are slim, but not none."), is short-sighted IMO.  Also, some Power 5 programs are more business-like than others and may not be a good fit regardless (recent former head coaches at Auburn and Alabama would seem to bear this out nicely).  Again, I think some of the information here is good, but I think there are other considerations that need to be addressed first before one chooses the "nicest" and "timeliest" of coaches.

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×