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We had a meeting today run by the varsity coach. He said he would cut the seniors and people who wouldn't make JV after 2 days of tryouts and leave the rest of the cuts to the JV coach when he sent the JV players down. He said some seniors would never play, but if you play fresh, soph, junior yrs you will be on varsity senior year no matter what.

The meeting went fine and we will continue to have captains practices until the 20th, when tryouts start.
KROMNH,

Very good post and I see it all the time out here. You can only run from daddy ball for so much. When you reach HighSchool you are in for a reality check. Maybe I should of hit all winter, maybe I should of fielded more groundballs on my off time, maybe I should have long tossed, etc. It catches up to you when all of the above is being done by someone who is battling you for the same position. SOme kids are used to being handed ss and 3rd in the lineup all their lives for past efforts. In HighSchool you better be prepared to fight for some of these positions.

On a side note, I personally watch my son work his butt off because he knew what he was going up against. He is not the tallest kid but he is strong and has an all out hustle mentality. The coaches have seen this and have rewarded him with a starting position. Now he has to maintain that same hunger to stay at that position.
I guess I can say this as I do not have a dog in this fight since my guys are done long ago with HS ball

Todays generation expects everything to be given to them--they expect no challenges --- well they better wake up-- once you reach HS everything is a challenege and if they think it is tough at the HS level wait until they get to the college level, if they ever do--in college even the scholarship players have to fight for their spot in the lineup--the kids who make the jump from one level to another are the kids who are aware of the challenges that face them and work to overcome each and every challenge they face.

There are no givens and keep in mind it is a priviledge to play not A RIGHT!!!
quote:
There are no givens and keep in mind it is a priviledge to play not A RIGHT!!!


I think it's more of a RIGHT to play a FEW lousy innings when a kid has worked his butt off and his parents have been cajoled by some whining coach into investing a few thou into his baseball program. (AKA the coaches' ego trip)

EVERY kid on our HS varsity program is talented. Everyone's survived several rounds of cuts. It is disheartening to the players to see one of their friends rotting on the bench. It makes the coach look like a jerk...even to the star players. THAT's not smart baseball!

Can someone explain the risk lurking for a team that puts in a bench player when they're hopelessly behind or embarrassingly ahead in a mismatched game?
Last edited by micdsguy
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
I guess I can say this as I do not have a dog in this fight since my guys are done long ago with HS ball

Todays generation expects everything to be given to them--they expect no challenges --- well they better wake up-- once you reach HS everything is a challenege and if they think it is tough at the HS level wait until they get to the college level, if they ever do--in college even the scholarship players have to fight for their spot in the lineup--the kids who make the jump from one level to another are the kids who are aware of the challenges that face them and work to overcome each and every challenge they face.

There are no givens and keep in mind it is a priviledge to play not A RIGHT!!!


I could not agree with you more!!! At our Highschool parents believe that is a kid is a Senior he should play. Don't dare bring up a Soph that is better that is a No NO. I don't understand this attitude. They also feel the discipline should be a little smack on the hand not the butt. EX. if their boys come home complaining that they had to run for punishment that is wrong! I also believe though if their kids were the Starters their complaints would not be as many. Our Senior Class parents baby their Boys and I wonder how they will make it without Mommy and Daddy to bail them out all the time. Where is the accountability for not working, not getting to really know the Coach, not respecting the Coach and his decisions. If a kid has taken the time to get to know the Coach then he is picked on for kissing butt or he is the Coaches favorite. Why not teach your own sons that the relationship with the Coach is very important.

I say all of this because we have a great Coach who is not Coaching this year for these very reasons and more. Our parents have been out to get him since their Kids were passed up by others. Then they come up with every excuse in the book why he is a bad Coach. But it is so clear where their complaints began. It was when the tide changed and their Dad's were not in control of the playing or pitching time anymore.

We have taught our Boys that it is NOT a Right as TRhit stated. they need to work for it. As stated earlier my Son was one talked to by this Coach about sitting the bench. I have been on both sides of this issue but always come to the same conclusion. It is the Coaches decision to make not ours. Luckily that kick in the Butt has made my Son work much harder instead of expecting it. We had tried all year and he considered it pressure. Now he wants it for himself because this Coach figured out how to motivate him.
TR - great imput. I have seen this in other issues besides baseball. they want stuff on a silver platter instead of going after it.
A preacher came to our church once and pulled out a dollar bill and began to talk about that he was going to give this to someone and he kept talking for about 5 min. until someone older than me got out of their seat and went up and took it. He said that when he does this in non-western countries, that he is thronged by young people to get that dollar bill, but in western countries the young people are waiting for the dollar bill to be handed to them. They need to learn to "go after the dollar bill".
To those that have "bench sitters" and to those that have "star starters" or somewhere in between - not everyone will get exactly what they want (or think that they want) just from hard work. There are those that just have talent and in many cases size. There are those that do get along with the boss or coach better than others and get "preferential" treatment either consciously or unconsciously. This in life as well as sports.
I think that "dollar bill" story also explains why there are a lot of Latinos in Pro ball. There are Americans that have the talent, but don't want the hardship of "A" ball pay whereas that foreign player may be happy to have free food after the game and be making many times what he would be working back home.
Tim Robertson
quote:
....They need to learn to "go after the dollar bill


Great analogy and so true.

From the kids I've coached to my own kids at home I've always stressed the "dont bring me problems bring me solutions" mentality. Not always well accepted but I feel it has helped more than it has hurt.

I think the coach in this case was not only motivating individuals but also stating the reality of the team situation and a reality of life itself. Kudos to the coach for taking and delivering a positive stand.
I am having a hard time following both sides of this argument. I have seen very few jerk coaches and ball players that don't put 100% into their game.
I have seen parents who try to control coaches and lots of power struggles but the coaches and the kids for most part put everything into the game.
Most coaches try to get all the players some playing time in blow out situations or meaningless games. My son always played varsity baseball in HS but was a bench player on the varsity AAAA basketball team his 1st year and a starter his second year. He got lots of playing time and the coach made him feel a part of the team. I think this is very important.
Many of the bench players put a lot of effort in and deserve respect and some playing time.
One player I had close contact with last year was very upset because he never got any playing time and he quit this year. Honestly he was not very talented but some private instructors kept taking his money and filling his head with mission impossible. I felt sorry for him because he had great attitude and worked as hard or harder than anyone.
quote:
I am having a hard time following both sides of this argument.
me tooSmile
not sure why, best 9, nuuty parents, daddy ball, right to play, $, etc are relevant here



coach says before team PRACTICE even begins:
"some of you may get on the team but never play, I don't want you complaining about that, if you can't put up with that go home now."

original question - is this unusual and/or effective motivation?



imo,
it's a VERY POOR coach who'd keep players who couldn't contribute to his team*

"subs", by definition means just that - no guarantees . . . BUT, you get them PT when you can


some may say; "well what if he dosn't work at practice"?
answer: if YOU select guys for YOUR team who don't work, YOU'RE a lousy judge of people,
cut your loses & collect their uniforms

*that said, there might be reasons for a coach to carry players he will NEVER EVER play,
bullpen catchers, a lh BP pitcher, guys to shag flies, or run drill stations etc

for them, he should talk 1 on 1 and clearly define their role & they can take it or leave it


fact is you'll probably play for all kinds of coaches, just make the best of it
when you get a bad one

good luck


.
Last edited by Bee>
quote:
A preacher came to our church once and pulled out a dollar bill and began to talk about that he was going to give this to someone and he kept talking for about 5 min. until someone older than me got out of their seat and went up and took it. He said that when he does this in non-western countries, that he is thronged by young people to get that dollar bill, but in western countries the young people are waiting for the dollar bill to be handed to them. They need to learn to "go after the dollar bill".


Heard the same krap about hippies years ago...kids that are now running the world's most prosperous and innovative economy with nearly zero unemployment and a crime rate far below 20 years ago in most areas.

Don't know about you. But my three kids are WONDERFUL people by any standard.
Last edited by micdsguy
quote:
Heard the same krap about hippies years ago...kids that are now running the world's most prosperous and innovative economy with nearly zero unemployment and a crime rate far below 20 years ago in most areas

micdsguy,
Interesting arguement as I can relate to that "hippie" group 08. However, in general I feel todays economy is a result of advanced technologies versus the "sweat" factor. My three kids are also wonderful people but I try to stress to them that because many in their generation are looking to have things handed to them, a little extra work will go a long way.

If you look at the athletic participation numbers in many HS and youth programs it shows fewer kids are willing to get off their duffs and be involved in a competitive environment. This is where I feel the foundation of tomorrows leaders are developed.
Last edited by rz1
quote:
If you look at the athletic participation numbers in many HS it shows fewer kids are willing to get off their duffs and be involved in a competitive environment.

I've never seen figures that would support that. 50% of the kids at our HS play some sport during their 4 years.

Participation by girls far exceeds what it was years ago.

Lazy? Girls who would have been piddy patting tennis balls 40 years ago are now running marathons. Not at all uncommon to see girls passed out at the end of a cross country race.

Our local sports discussion group has a thread going about HOW PHYSICAL girls basketball has become.
I think I will recant the girls portion of participation because I think those numbers are up across the board in both numbers and quality.

However, and I may be wrong, but I thought that the boys numbers were way down. I know in our area there are schools that have to combine kids in order to maintain the numbers in some sports to support a team. The little leagues have fewer teams. Maybe I'm a bit localized to the tundra and don't have a clue.

Do others on this site see an increase or decrease in boys athletic participation either in school or outside the school?
Very hard to get clean figures on boys sports. There are new sports such as Lacrosse, and Hockey (over the past 30 years). Little League may be down because kids are demanding more realistic baseball. Summer travel teams, I'm sure, are up. Lessons and showcases are WAY up.
There's certainly more specialization. (for good or bad)

I'm thinking GAMES may be way up too. Did HSs go south years ago for spring? A few Legion teams play 50 games, many traveling long distances.

Much of this has to do with near-universal prosperity created by the previous generation of Bill Gates-type dropouts.
quote:
Little League may be down because kids are demanding more realistic baseball. Summer travel teams, I'm sure, are up. Lessons and showcases are WAY up.


There is not a porportional change with fewer little league players and those wanting more competition. Bottom line there are fewer youth players than 10 years ago. You make a good point about "advanced" baseball and other sports, but apathy on part of parents and kids alike is a big part of the reason. Those on this site do not fall into this catagory, but I'm sure all of you can look at your kids friends and find a couple that would probably be a good athletes with some motivation. I've been involved for 15 years on a board of directors of a once 1000 player Little League where we have went out to those people and looked for reasons why the kids did not return, and unfortunately we found many times that parents and kids alike did not want to take the time out of their summer schedules and those schedules did not involve other youth activities. You might say that the LL may have been at fault. I don't think so, we tried every way possible to bring kids back into the fold. This is a pc, educated, middle class district with a nice cross section of diversity, excellent facilities, that had limited excuses. This has been an on going year round project that we have worked on for 7 years. Trust me when I say that when the numbers start dropping at the youth levels it will not be long before it filters to the HS.

quote:
Almost every kid I have met that plays ball at HS and up is a dedicated athlete


Without a doubt.
Last edited by rz1
Coaches make this annoucement in many ways.

This is one and another is to say that players and parents are not to question playing time.

If a player or parent is willing to accept this and they stay, then they really have no option.

If a player is looking to get game they have to play where they will get playing time.

If a try-out has 60 kids attend and only 20 make the cut, then you have 40 students wishing to play baseball with no possibility for playing high school ball that year.

They may opt out of baseball and choose the European game or football or some other sport where they will participate.

While the coach may not seem tactful, he is establishing that he will not tolerate questioning his decisions concerning playing time. This eliminates the complaining that may take place as the season progresses.
Last edited by Quincy
like someone above said
quote:
fact is you'll probably play for all kinds of coaches, just make the best of it when you get a bad one
btw, did you make the team?



if not ... I'd get a few of those fish you talk about in your "signature",
hide one somewhere in his office & the other in his car

heck, ya may want to do it even if you make the teamWink
Last edited by Chairman
the thing that stands out in the above posts are the old school answers.which i tend to agree with 100%.we are in a different time than most of us grew up in.as much as we try and treat our kids like we were treated, we all get sucked up in the give em more than we had.then we here complaints about coaches etc.and kids don't have to work for things today,but some do.not because they have to because they want to.the kids i have dealt with the last 4 or 5 years seem content with the ability they have.not all of them but for the most part they don't want the extra bp,grounders etc.but they still want to win the states.i think they have had (time to themselves )enough they think it's what they are supposed to do.
i think the players should know the role they will play.they can make up their own mind to stay or go.these are high school kids,young adults .it's tough out here in the world,this is a small lesson in life.keep in mind alot of these kids are driving $20,000 cars,they can decide to stay or go. and they should be told up front no need for suger coating it in my opinion.
baseball is a fun game but the best that ever played failed at the plate 6 out of 10 times.can't do that in math class.
ok another update, today i finally got to do what i do best, pitch but i wasn't at my best. the coach barely watched me, he saw my change up which was a lovely one, but i'm afraid he thought that was my fast ball, also there is this freshman kid who they were drueling over and he didn't even care he was pitching with a hoody on!

also no they have not made cuts yet, tommorrow is the final day for cuts, i really hope i make it.i will keep you guys updated.
Every coach that my son's have played for is or was a jerk according somebody I've spoken to. My sons have played for coaches that they absolutely loved, and I would hear other people talking about what a jerk the coach was and how stupid the guy was. For all the coaches who are on this website, God bless you for doing a job I sure wouldn't want! And tell it like it is to me because I hate being sweet talked into doing something that I regret half way through the season. clever
I'm sure Schilling didn't play until his senior season in HS because the coach could see he really didn't fit into the program. Wonder if he got that speech?

The reality is that most HS coaches play the best players in their opinion and most do a pretty good job. There are also coaches out there who do a poor job and sometimes players who are significantly better, and who would make the team better (not always one and the same) get very little playing time.

A lot depends on the ability of the varsity coach to find quality coaches for the lower levels. It can be difficult to find experienced coaches for the lower levels and inexperienced coaches tend to make a lot of mistakes while they are learning, leaving the players to bear the consequences.
Just wanted to let you in on a little something. My Son made Varsity for 3 years in High School. Had an offer this year for a Div. 2. They called my Son the Glove Boy because he could scoop or catch any ball that came close to him. He played Short Stop and Center. He could throw a ball from Center, it would take one bounce and be at home plate. The College that recruited him changed the Coach and staff. My Son is DH'ing. Bench Time........... The Coach also gave them a little speech about him not having to offer any player anything. You hang in there, it could be worse. Good luck to you.
Last edited by uswtx
today is the final day, and then cuts i think coach already had his mind made up who was gonna make it from the start, He has 2 groups one stacked with good players and the other group, some are good but others not so good. In the cage he would watch group one take swings, then when group 2 went to the cages, he would have someone else feed the machine, and he would watch group one hit off the tee. I really want to play because i put in all the work in the off-season.

It's not fair but then again life is not fair, i will notify you of what happens today. Thank you for all the support.
TR,
Sounds like a trick question. Is there an answer?

As far as I'm concerned "Fair" is a relative term, as long as a player gives 100% and does not cheat himself what is fair and not fair is left to anyones interpretation and opinion.

Everyones used the "it's not fair" phrase but in almost every case we've been holding the "stinky end of the stick" at the time.
well i got cut along with another extrodinary player, i asked coach why, he said i was one of the best kids there, and he couldn't keep me because it's a numbers game. (wtf does that mean). The kids who made the team were amazed that i didn't make it, and these 2 other kids made it no lie they are terrible but there parents have alot of pull around the school.
another kid only showed up to 1 out of 4 practices and he made it. it's just politics i guess.


i will keep my head high and come at them strong next year, i start my training tommorrow.
Pitching 101

I am sorry to hear how things went for you today. You sound like you have a great attitude. My son was cut from a Showcase team this past Fall and was rated 1 or 2 on everything. It does happen. You know what though that Coach has been in contact with My son ever since. He wants him for next Fall. So hang in there and keep up with your workouts and you will do fine.

Hey and make sure you find yourself a good Summer team. That could make a huge difference for you next year.
pitching 101:

Sorry to hear the news. Frown It sure is hard to imagine when the talented kids don't make it, for whatever reason. Politics? Sure. The wrong "look"? Could be. All kinds of goofy reasons. noidea But. Hang in there--there IS next year. It happens to so many of us, not making one thing or another-- it made ME more determined than ever to make the team the next year. And I did.Smile

There is a value to not having things come easily...having to work for something --extra hard in some instances...We appreciate it that much more...And enjoy it more. And it's nothing that anyone could ever take away from us, knowing that we did it by ourself... Stay positive. Good luck.
Last edited by play baseball
quote:
..he said i was one of the best kids there, and he couldn't keep me because it's a numbers game

Pitching101,

To me he meant that you were the best of the ones who got cut. Now it's time to pick up YOUR game. Everyday they have practice you have your own practice. That includes running, weights, long toss, ther-bands/hand grips, if you hit- get the tee out, if you pitch- get an 80 pitch pen in every week.

If you don't want to work on your game, then you're done. However you sounded like you were committed to the team, now it's time to commit to yourself!

running- set up a program and record the numbers, watch the improvement and set goals
weights- set up a program and record the numbers, watch the improvement and set goals
long toss- no partner needed, get a bag of old balls, find incrimental targets, and go for it
ther-bands- (rubber hose) they connect to anything at home, handgrips while watching tv
T-work- use a screen or a net to hit against and get to a pitching machine 2-3x a week
bull pen- maybe the coach needs someone to throw bp once a week, if not, find someone.

That other good player that got cut may have the same attitude, work together if possible. Trust me that by the time summer ball rolls around you will be opening some eyes.

You might have to spend some money to get some instruction in areas, but that goes with the territory. The question now is if you want to stop or you want to take the next step. Your call, but never make an excuse or blame a call on someone else. Accept it, deal with it, and move on. You won't end up with a batting average or era, but you will have those intangibles that cannot be measured, heart and desire.
Last edited by rz1
thanks for all the advice everyone, but my mind would not let me be put to ease when i know i desirved a spot, so today i went up to the assistant coach ( not the head because he doesn't work in our school ) and i told him that i thought i got the short end of the stick, and i would like another shot.

He told me that both of the coaches liked me and i threw well, but again it was a numbers game, ( agian in my head i thought then what number was i and how come the slacker made it) and he said he couldn't do anything and that he would ask the head coach.

if i get a no i am going right over their heads to the varsity coach and asking him to let me throw just 1 bullpen and if he doesn't like me then i will be out of his hair.



wow! had to get that off of my chest.

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