Coaches against private instructors

Before replying, let me suggest that you should remove your location from your post and your profile.

I would cease private instruction for the duration of the season.

Thanks for the heads up!

That is a relatively common request by coaches. the issue is conflicting styles and for pitchers the concern with over use.

One of our high school coaches also made the demand that there would not be any outside lessons.

Hitting was not an issue, the guys pretty much followed the coaches lead and working within their program, when they would not hit well they would possibly go for a tune up on the weekend but still working within the high school coaches desire.

As for pitchers, conflicting bull pens and pitching cycles can really cause a problem of over use, some of the pitchers also worked with their private instructors on a very limited basis, but also not changing much outside of what the high school coach wanted them to do, but more for minor tune-ups (not much throwing).

Then in the off season, they would go back to their private instructors.

Good Luck, hope your brothers enjoy the ride.

I always found most coaches were egotistical, IMO.....The ones who said no private instructors surely were!....They hurt their teams tremendously!....They also damage the playing careers of their players....

I would advise any player to try not to play for a coach who does this nonsense!

If we had school choice, would this be happening?

I have never seen or heard of this in any basketball program. But, quirky things like this are very common in baseball.

What about football?

For a high school coach to say that is ridiculous for position players (I can somewhat understand for pitchers). I'm sorry, but if 2013 Son's coach said no instruction, and it was hurting my child, 2013 Son would still go. I understand doing what the coach wants, but I'm not going to let some egotistical coach hurt my son. Then when son starts raking, Coach could take all the credit as to how he was right.

Here in south florida at some of the high schools I have heard the coaches stating that and shame on them. My son has seen a pitching instrutor since he was 9 years old and has done very well over the years. A current high school pitching coach that has no experince at any level with pitching has tried to change his style and some of his mechanics. We as parents have instructed our son to smile and work hard, review what the coach is saying and work through it. I have a lot invested in both his physical and metal well being and at this point I will not allow a person with NO credentials to start making drastic changes NO WAY, NO HOW.
Its funny because his showcase team the coaches have credentials that are outstanding and have not changed a thing as they like what they see.

We have not had the issue with hitting. We have had the coaches stop private pitching lessons for the same reasons as listed. They do not want to have to worry about the fact that the pitcher just took a lesson and they need him to pitch, but he can't because he's sore. It really is too much for pitchers durinmg the HS season.

I don't know why a coach would prohibit a player from taking instruction hitting from their private coach. It's not like the kid is messing with the way the coach likes his team to be. He's just trying to hit better. Something like that can be done under the table without the coach knowing. (I don't care if people know where I'm from). I agree with 2013Dad there.

Ok before I start making everyone mad let me say that I as a high school coach would never tell a kid to stop seeing a reputable private instructor.

But if one of my players is going to a guy who has no clue then you better believe I'm going to let him know how I feel. I still won't stop him but he better realize when he doesn't get better then he and I can discuss philosophies while sitting next to each other on the bench. While it's important to have a private instructor because my hands are tied quite a bit with state regulations you still need to be careful. Some of these guys may not know jack squat about the game. Some parents automatically think just because they are paying for instruction is HAS to be better than what I'm giving for free. Some of these guys just worry about the check clearing.

In a perfect world a private coach is to supplement what is being taught at the high school level. The whole purpose of baseball is to play a game and you don't get that aspect with a private coach. All a private coach is is practice. In the high school setting you are getting what you are supposed to be getting - competition in a game. So what's being taught by the high school should take precedence and the private coach enhances it. That's how it worked when I was in KY. My guys went to a reputable business and came back saying they were doing almost the exact same things we were doing in practice. Might hear it explained a little differently or a slight variation on a drill but overall it was the same stuff. The guys got better and that is the goal.

Sadly we don't live in a perfect world. Sometimes the high school coach is an idiot and the private coach has to do ALL the teaching to prepare the kid for games / next level. Sometimes the private coach is just out for the money and has no clue. Now the high school coach has to fight to correct the bad habits being created by this private coach. In both of these situations the kid suffers and that's not good.

Sadly I'm sure there are times when both coaches are idiots.

Same way with some dads - there are some dads who know the game and do a good job of teaching it AT HOME away from practice. Then there are those who are clueless and try to butt in when it's not appropriate.

The message I'm trying to send is pay attention to what you're spending your money on. See if the high school coach knows what he's talking about. Education yourself the best you can on the game. Realize just because you pay for it doesn't mean it's the best. Realize if you don't have a good high school coach then you have to find people that can teach the game.

Hello;

Do you have a mirror at home? Parents and Coaches -Can you teach self
development?

Bob

So the coaches dont like the instructors, the instructors dont like the parents, and the parents dont like the coaches???LOL. This is a continuous cycle i find absolutly absurd.
After being raised in a baseball family, being a parent, coach and a FREE instructor, also a huge fan of the game I have found the following.
1. Parents teach the kid baseball out of love and wish to see the child succeed.
2. The instructor teaches the kid for his own paycheck.
3. The school coach coaches for his own ego.

Not everytime, but quite alot these days. Hail the thoughts their minds are into. Its the business of youth baseball.

Unless this coach is the second coming of Ted Williams, I would respectfully let your coach know that as your high school you appreciate all he does for you but that you will continue to use your hitting coach. Stick to your guns and keep swinging it.

Lefty...

Serious question, here. What would a private coach be teaching to a high school player? Is it theory or something? Are they pitching nasty curves to him? What goes on in these private lessons?

There just isn't enough info given to make a statement in my opinion. Too many times private lessons are given and its just to make money. I cant tell you how many of my players go to private coaches that I have heard them say they just do it for money. Every coach I know at the high school level does it for the love of the game and the kids. What chaps me is when my kids come back in the spring and have some crazy new mechanics that some 'guru' taught them just so they would be coming back every week. Also love it when a player goes to a private coach and comes back with some new revelation about what he is doing wrong when I had been teling him for two years.

IMO any coach at the high school level should know enough about every aspect of the game to teach it...I pitched in college and didnt swing a bat from the time I was soph in high school on through college so I lacked in hitting knowledge. so I went to a reputable college hitting coach and paid him just like a player would for lessons. it was the best money I ever spent.

Also forgot to mention that I have been doing private lessons in the summer for 6 years and have yet to do more than 2 lessons with one kid....Funny how when you teach the parent what to look for and drills to do on their own they always call me back to thank me and tell me that they want to wait to continue the lessons at a later date. I also only charge half of what every one else does around here for double the time..why wouldnt I? I am just investing in the kids that will one day wear my uniform.

If a coach had ever told my son not to see his hitting instructor I would have felt like telling him to go pound sand. But in hindsight I would smile and nob my head and continue to take my son to his instructor.

I knew what my son's goals were and I sought out highly qualified people over the last 10 years to work with him. He has has 2 instructors over that timeframe and both played pro ball, one in the Majors for a decade. Both have been giving lessons full time for over 20-30 years.

There is no way that I would let a HS coach that maybe played ball in college influence what my son was doing IF it contradicted what his instructor was teaching. Fortunately he had an excellent HS Coach who thought the world of him and his work ethic, which was demonstrated on the field for him and by taking the time to visit his instructor each week when other players were at the beach or hanging out. I do not think a Highly Qualified Coach is going to take issue with a highly qualified instructor.

But, if you are a taking lessons from someone who played D-2 and your Coach played D-1 or whatever then I can see problems developing, and the coach may be justified.

If you are going to get an instructor seek out the most qualified individual you can locate and develop a relationship. My son has seen his instructor in a lesson once in the past 6 months. But he comes to games, reviews photo's, and talks with my son on an as needed basis. He also talks with me whenever I feel a need to talk about what is going on with my guys at bats. That is the kind of relationship that is worthy of building and protecting.

quote:

But, if you are a taking lessons from someone who played D-2 and your Coach played D-1 or whatever then I can see problems developing, and the coach may be justified.

floridafan are you saying that just because someone plays at a higher level that makes them a better teacher of the game? That seems to be a little presumptious to me to just assume because they have such and such experience at this level automatically makes them better than this guy who only play at this and that level.

I pretty much agree with everything else you said though.

Sorry Coach, I was just trying to present a situation where the HS Coach may have a point and the player should follow his HS Coach's instruction as opposed to locating a private instructor who may not have the knowledge necessary to help a player.

A lot of the times egos get in the way. a kid goes to get lessons and he is hitting the cover off the ball you leave him alone. Now if he is all screwed up and not performing well then as a coach you address the issue.

Let me start by saying that my son worked with a private instructor from the age of eight until he finished playing in college. He started as a freshman and hit a legit .354 for a team that went to the semi-finals of the state tournament. His sophmore season the high school coach went to a hitting clinic and later purchased the camp video. He wanted everyone to hit like the video. I told my son to do what the coach wanted when the coach was watching in practice. When the coach was not paying attention and during the games for him to hit like his private instructor told him. It worked and he hit over .400 his last three seasons. The coach never said anything to him and I doubt that any coach would try to force something onto a kid that is a good hitter.

Going to a private instructor is not a guarantee for success. the player has to have some talent but the most important thing is he has to work on the technique.

Hitting a baseball at a high level requires a ton of very skill specific work. If the hitter has the ability and is dedicated to hard work then the next very import aspect of success is confidence. That is a huge part of what a very good private coach can provide. Our experience is that he doesn't just teach mechanics and drills, but teaching the hitter to understand what he does and why and how doing different things affect the outcome. A hitter needs to understand his mechanics and hitting specifics well enough to "feel" when he's off, and then have an understanding of what corrections may need to be made.

Now there may be some very good HS Coaches out there that know their stuff but; do they have the time to work year around, after practices, games and on weekends, to help your son or his other 19 or so ballplayers? I don't think so.

We worked with two great guys over the years and both were much more interested in their players and their results then they were the fees. My boy still checks in with them both periodically to discuss hitting. In college, fortunately he has a very good hitting coach (who recruited him) that espouses the very things my son believes is best for him. He talks with his old guys when in town and their teachings and support thru the years has been invaluable.

I haven't seen too many free rides in life!

The hs season lasts 3 months. That leaves 9 months to do exactly what you want to do. So lets talk about that 3 months your playing hs baseball. Your practicing or playing a game 5 to 6 days out of the week. Your actually going to school as well trying to get the best grades you can. School gets out at 3:30 and practice starts at 3:50. Practice ends around 6:30 and then field work to 6:45 to 7:00. Then you got to eat and get your studies in. On game days or game nights your going to get home much later. So that leaves Sat afternoons if you practice on Saturdays and Sundays for private instruction if thats what you want to do. Or you can go get that instruction after you leave your hs practice. If you feel like doing that or if you have time for that go for it. You must not be working very hard with your hs team. You must be a great student. You must not want or need much down time from the game.

Lets talk about the pitching issue here. You a hs pitcher. You are on a throwing routine with your hs program. You have a weekly schedule for bull pens based on when your going to throw that week. What happens when you have a lesson one night and you throw for your private pitching coach and the next day you have a pen for the hs team? Or you have a private work out with the instructor one night and the next day coach needs you to take a start because the scheduled starter cant go? What about your hs pitching coach is telling you one thing and the private instructor is telling you something else? Your working on one thing with the private coach another thing with the hs coach and then game day comes what are you doing? How can that be good for you? How can that be good for the team?

As far as the hitting issue if your hitting 9 months out of the year and taking private instruction as well during those nine monts you should be just fine right? You can't take off the hs season with the hitting instructor if asked to do so? Or you can find the time to continue to work with the hitting instructor and you dont have to announce it to the world that your doing it do you? As long as your producing you will be in the line up. If your having to take private lessons during the 3 month hs season in order to produce at the high school level how good of a hitter are you? Have you not learned enough drills from your private instructor to be capable of working on your stroke without him being present or you going to see him during the 3 month hs season? So if you dont see him during the hs season your all of sudden going to s uck at hitting?

I have always encouraged my guys to seek out the best instruction they can find. If they want to get help outside of the program during the season and they can find the time to do it fine. But I dont want my pitchers throwing outside of what we are doing. For obvious reasons. We throw enough and I dont want taxed arms. And I dont want them confused either. If hitters feel they need more swings and more instruction and better instruction than we can offer go for it. But the bottom line is if you produce you will be in the line up and if you dont you wont.

If your not a hitter when the hs season starts your not going to be a hitter when the season begins. The season is 3 months and 24 games long. If you are having to take private instruction during the hs season how good are you? You have 9 months to work on your game to be ready to compete for 3 months. HS coaches are no different than anyother coach. They want to win and they want to develop their players to the best of their ability. When the hs season rolls around if were not ready to compete then we have not done what we need to do during the 9 months leading up to the season.

If I want you to load earlier and your private instructor wants you to load later then do what I want you to do when your working with me. Do what your private instructor wants you to do when your working with him. And if you produce when your in the line up great. If you dont you wont play. So if the player can figure out what works best for him by being taught two different things fine. Peoples opinion about hs coaches is based on what? Their experience with how many hs coaches? One? Two? Before you make a blanket statement about people think about what that opinion is really based on.

Prime we were posting at the same time and my post was not directed at you. There was an earlier post that pretty much said ALL hs were about ego. I just wanted you to know that.

i would think there wouldn't be a need/time for private instruction during the season. time to put all you've learned to good use.

Baseball and hitting in particular is all about adjustments. Adjustments pitch by pitch during each at bat.

Pitching is much the same way, but I agree that pitching lessons pose problems for HS Teams resulting from overuse.

It would be nice (but not realistic) to think that once a player has seen an instructor over the fall, he would not need any additional work over the course of the season. If that were the case why practice in season at all? We all know that issues creep in.

A good instructor will get a player to the point where they understand their craft as well as their instructor, and understand how to make proper adjustments and "fix" issues as they develop.

This does not happen overnight, nor over the course of one year. In my son's case it is only this year that he has made adjustments that may have hurt him last year. This adjustment has been to jump on the inside pitch and take it deep down the left field line. Previously he was a hitter that favored right center.

An instructor worth his weight has more knowledge than what can be transferred and internalized by a hitter during the course of a few months or a year. There is way more to hitting than swinging a bat, a lot more.

Have never understood this myself. The challenge I see is that the coaches make an attempt to have every player"s hitting style be the same. The private coach should have the ability to teach the individual what would be best for them. I have seen great hitters go the other direction after the HS coach instructed them on how they should hit. As for mine, until the coach is paying the clothing, food and tuition fees that will be coming for my son, I have the choice on what my son does. I understand about the pitching, even then the coach can work with the private instructor with scheduling. Just my two cents.

I agree with Coach regarding playing level. After all, if good instruction was based on playing level, Pujols, Ramirez and Griffey would never be able to get instruction. It's like in golf,tennis and other sports where the best (Tiger, Mikelson, Nadal) all have coached who never sniffed the level of success which was attained by their students.

More blanket statements. This thread if full of them. I will bow out because the more I read the more it ticks me off. Maybe it would be best if some kids just skipped the hs season instead of letting these coaches ruin their ability to play the game. Maybe the hs game would be better off if the dads just coached the teams and allowed the private instructors to take care of the instruction? I will leave this thread and let you guys continue to bash the hs coaches that your vast experience has led you to believe that they are clowns.

quote:

I understand about the pitching, even then the coach can work with the private instructor with scheduling.

It will be a cold day in a very hot place before I ever agree to anything like this. You try out for the team that I am the head coach of then you will abide by the rules that I established because that's how it works. If you don't like my rules then don't bother coming or stop wasting my time and quit because if I find that you're breaking my rules I'm going to get rid of you.

Like I said - I'm not against private coaches who know what they are doing because they will NOT step on my toes. They are a credit to the game because they know how the system works. Those who step on my toes aren't looking out for your son's interest - they are wanting to get paid. If people aren't smart enough to realize the difference between a good private coach working WITH the high school coach then you deserve every bit of problems that arise.

I'm with Coach May in that these threads are basically useless. All they do is turn into a "bash all high school coaches" thread because some think that just because you pay for instruction it's better than what I would give.

If we as high school coaches just allowed our players to go see private coaches during practice time then when would we be able to put in bunt defenses, first / third defenses and things like that? By allowing players to just walk off to see a private coach at anytime you are going to destroy the team chemistry. These players will not respect the high school coach because they will see him as weak. Then in a game they blow off a hit / run sign or they steal on their own - then what? Does the private coach now handle strategies? What if the kid gets in trouble at school? Will the private coach make the decision on how many poles he has to run or how many games he has to sit out? Will the private coach make sure he does his homework? Like Coach May said earlier - during a high school season when will the player have time to go work with a private coach? It sure as heck won't be during my practice time and it shouldn't be after practice because the player has school responsibilities.

You want to go to a private coach in the offseason then go right ahead. It doesn't hurt my feelings because I know this - if you're raking the ball I will put you in the lineup. I don't care who the credit goes to for the kids success. If you come back from the instruction and it's still not got you hitting then you will be on the bench. I don't care if you want to blame me for my awful instruction because you will still be on the bench. If your private instruction goes against my rules then I will dismiss you from the team.

Some of the arrogant blanket statements just amaze me on here. I realize there are some high school coaches who are pretty much useless but don't bash all of us.

Coach May & Coach2709 -

I sure hope that my posts were not construed to appear that I support belittling HS Coaches. We loved ours, a hardnosed old school coach that understood the game, had a passion for the game and who taught the game. He was excellent! And he had no problem with a player seeing outside instruction so long as it did not interfere with his practice and game schedule or his practice and game plan.

There is no way a coach should have to even think about working around a player’s instructional schedule. That is a ridiculous statement and expectation.

The player is there to support the team first! If he is able to do that better by receiving additional instruction great! But it had better not ever interfere with HS practice or heaven forbid games!

And, I agree and have found it to be true that a good instructor will be very adament that when it comes to baseball, the Coach Rules The Field and deserves the utmost respect. I believe that the goal is being so good that a Coach is not interested in changing your approach at the plate (in the case of hitting).

But let it be known that when my son played his first year in college he was required to completely change his swing in order to play, which he dutifully did and hit close to .400. The second year of college he transfered out due to the issues with the swing and went back to his old swing and hit .458 with more power.

The point is you need to abide by the wishes of the coach. He recruited you and it is his team, you play for his program.

Coach may said what I was thinking, why even interrupt your instruction with playing for the high school team?

I'll say this, I took my sons to the local hitting guru (aka the best guy in the county) and he made a couple of minor adjustments on their first visit. I remember driving home with them and they both had bidg smiles on their faces like it was Christmas morning. Their instructor was able to analyze their swings, describe what they were doing and made them understand the adjustments they had to make in 45 minutes. Over 6 years at the HS this never happened with their coach. Not saying he's a poor coach, just that thier hitting instructor is much better. It is what it is.

Lefty...

quote:

Originally posted by Sdlefty:
I'll say this, I took my sons to the local hitting guru (aka the best guy in the county) and he made a couple of minor adjustments on their first visit. I remember driving home with them and they both had bidg smiles on their faces like it was Christmas morning. Their instructor was able to analyze their swings, describe what they were doing and made them understand the adjustments they had to make in 45 minutes. Over 6 years at the HS this never happened with their coach. Not saying he's a poor coach, just that thier hitting instructor is much better. It is what it is.

Lefty...

Good for you.

quote:

I'm with Coach May in that these threads are basically useless. All they do is turn into a "bash all high school coaches" thread because some think that just because you pay for instruction it's better than what I would give.

Understandably, some very good HS Coaches here are sensitive. Many of us parents (I am going to try to include myself here) aren't baseball or sport virgins. We have played, coached and instructed not only our sons but players and teams as well. No way am I as qualified as our esteemed HS Coach contributors here on the forum and I, for one, recognize and admit that. I'm not among the HS Coach bashers and I hope there aren't those here that have that as their intent. I appreciate my sons HS Coaches contributions to experience and skills learned. He was himself, a noted College player and awarded both in the states of Texas and Georgia. There are a bunch of very dedicated men out there helping young players.

Conversely, there are others who are not so skilled and or have other agendas. That's life. A Coach often has other school responsibilities besides baseball. Additionally, he has so much knowledge to spread, so little time and resources, and so many needy players. In our case, the three year stop at HS Varsity baseball was but a part of the baseball journey so Dad and then other, more knowledgeable people augmented the learning curve.

To suggest that we may not be smart enough to figure out that one must be careful when selecting a coach or tutor as we may not get value .... is a bit demeaning; don't you think? Now who is being egotistical and who is being sensitive.

My big issue with some instructors is they will not leave things alone. A guy who is throwing very well will go in, and they will start changing little things every week. They have to change something, or why would you pay them $60 an hour?

Furthermore, there are private instructors who teach every kid to do things the exact same way...some of you bash HS coaches for that same thing. I don't need my 5'8 140 lb. infielder dropping his back half and "driving" the ball in the batting tunnel. Sure it looks good in there, but all we get on the field is routine flyouts. Then, to show that kid video of Ryan Howard and Albert Pujols to reinforce what they teach...despite the obvious differences in size/strength.

There are really good HS coaches. There are really bad HS coaches. There are really good private instructors. There are really bad private instructors.

How come we never hear anything about the bad private instructors?

I don't see how a coach can be expected to win games, pick the right players, execute the right game strategy, promote team chemistry, and then turn around and be the hitting or pitching instructor for Little Johnny.

I don't see a problem with each kid getting personalized instruction. The coach has enough to worry about.

Just for the record.

We know of some cases where a local high school coach is the very best and most experienced "instructor" in that area.

There is no real answer to the debate... Coaches against private instructors. Every case could be a completely different situation.

Yes... There are some bad instructors out there and if I were a good high school coach I might not want my players involved with them. Of course, there are some great instructors as well that I would be very comfortable with, but have to agree with what "realteamcoach" posted.

If a player clearly hits well, would a (any) coach try to change his technique, simply because it's 'not what he teaches'?