The best hitters I have ever coached got great instruction along the way before they ever got to me. I have been able a few times to take a kid who had very little instruction before getting to me and help him become a good hitter. The kid was willing to work hard. And he was willing to be coached.
I want my guys to get instruction outside of the hs season. I tell them to seek out the best instruction they can find and take full advantage of it. Why wouldnt I? I want to win and I want them to be the best they can be. I do not want my pitchers working with anyone outside of our pitching coach during the season. If a kid wants to work with a private instructor during the hs season on his swing and he can fit it in fine. If he produces he will play. If he does not he wont.
I understand there are some kids who have hs coaches that do not have a clue. I am also very aware that some of the best hitting and pitching instructors I know are indeed hs coaches. I am also aware of some private hitting instructors that are clowns. I have seen them in action. And some are outstanding.
If a kids hs coach does not want his players working with private instructors during the season then you can either abide by that rule or not. Thats up to the individual. FF I took no offense at your post at all. I do take offense at those that routinely on this board bash hs coaches with blanket statements because they had ONE bad experience with a hs coach and were only hearing one side of that story here.
I could post numerous horror stories about parents over the years but whats the point? I could post numerous stories about players over the years. But how does that help anyone? If your son ends up being a player it will not be because of his hs coach. It will be because he was talented, worked very hard, and some people along the way helped him out. If he does not end up a player its not going to be because of his hs coach. Of course your free to blame it on anyone you want to.
As usual, it's hard to argue with the common sense of Coach May.
Just thought I would add this. An instructor can be most anyone. In many cases the most important instructor is Dad. In other cases it is the high school or even club team coach. And often it is someone who is in the business of being a baseball instructor.
I've learned a lot since the younger days when I thought I had it all down pat. One of my son's had a new high school coach. I never talked to him, but noticed he wasn't really teaching the kids how to play. That didn't really concern me, because I just didn't care.
However as the season progressed and then the next season ended, I had learned something very important that I had never thought about.
While it was true that this coach didn't really teach the fundamentals and mechanics, he had something much more important to give. First, he had the ability to get kids to do anything (run through a wall) for him. His work ethic was unbelivable and it had to be... because he believed in repetition as the main ingredient to success.
But more than anything else, this coach accomplished something far greater than winning games or learning how to field a ground ball. He fostered the right mental approach and attitude in his players. It was clearly obvious that every kid he coached was going to love the game for the rest of their life. He instilled a greater love for the game in every player he coached.
To this day, I've never seen any one quite as good at what he did. He was a great high school coach!
I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to see it first hand and learn from watching him operate.
There are lots of instructors and lots of coaches, but we need more people like this coach. BTW, he did win a state championship and produced several College and Pro players.
Just thought I would add this. An instructor can be most anyone. In many cases the most important instructor is Dad. In other cases it is the high school or even club team coach. And often it is someone who is in the business of being a baseball instructor.
I've learned a lot since the younger days when I thought I had it all down pat. One of my son's had a new high school coach. I never talked to him, but noticed he wasn't really teaching the kids how to play. That didn't really concern me, because I just didn't care.
However as the season progressed and then the next season ended, I had learned something very important that I had never thought about.
While it was true that this coach didn't really teach the fundamentals and mechanics, he had something much more important to give. First, he had the ability to get kids to do anything (run through a wall) for him. His work ethic was unbelivable and it had to be... because he believed in repetition as the main ingredient to success.
But more than anything else, this coach accomplished something far greater than winning games or learning how to field a ground ball. He fostered the right mental approach and attitude in his players. It was clearly obvious that every kid he coached was going to love the game for the rest of their life. He instilled a greater love for the game in every player he coached.
To this day, I've never seen any one quite as good at what he did. He was a great high school coach!
I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to see it first hand and learn from watching him operate.
There are lots of instructors and lots of coaches, but we need more people like this coach. BTW, he did win a state championship and produced several College and Pro players.
I've spent my fair share of money on hitting instructors for my son. He's had some good ones and some bad ones over the years. I personally don't believe in sending my son to anyone more than 4-5 times. I did it in the past, and by the fifth lesson nothing really changes? After a few lessons, a player should have an idea of what he needs to work on IMHO, and put those lessons to work on his own, and maybe with Dad's help. If you need to follow up every so often, no problem. I made the serious mistake of spending money on an instructor when my son was younger, 10-11 years old. We saw him once a week during the travelball season, and my kid would seriously rake during lessons. The weekend tournaments would come around, and my son was inconsistent...he'd go 3-3 with 3 Xbase hits, and the following day he'd be 0-3 with two K's. I chose to keep taking him to this guy and he'd straighten him out during the lesson and 247son would be back on track, only to faulter again come tournament time. The lesson I learned over the years is...IMO an excellent hitting instructor will find time to watch your son in live game situations to determine what needs to be fixed. He's making money off you, but how can he truly analyze your hitting tendencies without seeing you live? The private coach in question didn't once see my son in a live game situation, and that still bothers me to this day, especially when I think about all the money I had spent...But obviously that was my fault!
We don't seek help from instructors during the HS season, as Coach May stated in an earlier post, my son is one of those kids working his buns off in practice for the 3-4 hours a day he's on the field with his HS team. With that said, I don't believe his HS coach would mind as long as it didn't interfere with the TEAM? What I've learned over the past couple years (247son is a senior in HS) is that the majority of slumps are mental for my kid. His swing looks good and minor adjustments are usually all that is required. His HS coach recognizes what needs to be fixed, and luckily for my son, his coach is knowledgable enough to help.
247son has had some good AB's in the first few games of this HS season, but not a lot to show for it. He hit two long foul ball HR's in yesterday's game that he hooked, so we know that he needs to stay inside the ball more, and we'll work some drills on our own. The good news is thus far he looks comfortable and his approach has been very good, so good things will eventually happen!
We don't seek help from instructors during the HS season, as Coach May stated in an earlier post, my son is one of those kids working his buns off in practice for the 3-4 hours a day he's on the field with his HS team. With that said, I don't believe his HS coach would mind as long as it didn't interfere with the TEAM? What I've learned over the past couple years (247son is a senior in HS) is that the majority of slumps are mental for my kid. His swing looks good and minor adjustments are usually all that is required. His HS coach recognizes what needs to be fixed, and luckily for my son, his coach is knowledgable enough to help.
247son has had some good AB's in the first few games of this HS season, but not a lot to show for it. He hit two long foul ball HR's in yesterday's game that he hooked, so we know that he needs to stay inside the ball more, and we'll work some drills on our own. The good news is thus far he looks comfortable and his approach has been very good, so good things will eventually happen!
quote:I understand about the pitching, even then the coach can work with the private instructor with scheduling.
No way should a HS coach have to do this. A HS baseball team isn't about one individual. If a coach has to do this for anywhere from 15-60 players in his system, how's he ever going to run the team?
Once the players start the HS season, then they should be committed to the HS team and coaching staff. Besides, when is a player going to have time for private instruction when they're playing/practicing six days a week during the HS season. Also, the HS coaches shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel whether the player is having success or struggling a bit. A HS season is too short for that.
During the season, the HS HC should be calling the shots. Once the season's over, then the player should do what he wants. And that includes forcing or threatening players to play in coaches leagues as opposed to travel or legion teams.
To those that don't understand what I mean. A HS coach should not have to adjust his schedule with what he is doing. But if he has done his work correctly he should have his pitching rotation in line. Why can't you work with a kid and let them and the instructor know he should expect to pitch so he cen get the lesson in and not have any affect when he comes up in the rotation. Not slamming HS coaches but there are ways to get things accomplished if you think outside of the box. If my kid has a chance at a higher level of play no way I risk it by letting a HS coach, who only has him for 2 maybe 3 years, make decisions for me. To each his own, but we should all know that baseball is a sport where if you fall behind it is very hard to catch up. Even the pros during the season have people that they work with outside of the team staff. BUt parents are suppose to let a HS coach make my choices. Some of you will get offended and it doesn't apply to all but sounds like an ego problem to me.
That's BB,
It just doesn't work that way for a pitcher, way too many different circumstances can occur during a game and for that matter, during the season. If I was a HS coach, I certainly wouldn't work my schedule around your son...and honestly, if your instructor expected you to do so, he's not the one you want to keep around. JMO...
It just doesn't work that way for a pitcher, way too many different circumstances can occur during a game and for that matter, during the season. If I was a HS coach, I certainly wouldn't work my schedule around your son...and honestly, if your instructor expected you to do so, he's not the one you want to keep around. JMO...
quote:Even the pros during the season have people that they work with outside of the team staff
That's Baseball,
I'm trying to understand what you mean. The team has control of the player? Maybe I'm not thinking correctly. I'm sure there might be some examples of the above happening, but I would think they would be rare. Just the time involved would make this difficult unless a player was on the DL at the time.
The team does have control of the player. If the coach says 'warm up', you're going in, whether you have a pitching lesson that night, or not. It's part of being on a team.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:quote:Even the pros during the season have people that they work with outside of the team staff
That's Baseball,
I'm trying to understand what you mean. The team has control of the player? Maybe I'm not thinking correctly. I'm sure there might be some examples of the above happening, but I would think they would be rare. Just the time involved would make this difficult unless a player was on the DL at the time.
I am trying to understand that too, because pro players do not work with anyone else during the season except their coaches, off season is a different situation. And you are right, wne do you get this done? Even on the DL you are working with trainers and coaches for your rehab assignment.
So you give your son lessons all through HS and then he gets to college and the coach wants to make changes, what are you going to do now?
I am not sure of the value of lessons during the HS season, the foundation should have been laid before that, no problem with going back for a few tweeks.
I got to chuckle though, some need to understand that as your son goes through this journey there will be MANY who will contribute and make suggestions, he will have to learn to sift through it and decide how to handle it, on his own.
Why does a high school coach even feel like they have to set boundaries for their players regarding outside instruction? I'm not getting why a high school coach would feel he had the authority to "suggest" anything that occurs outside the jurisdiction of the program. Ok, so a pitcher holds onto a private instructor and overworks himself during season and when called upon for a bullpen or start says he can't go........well, I bet there's someone else that's more than willing to perform. Have a seat then son.
If a parent wants to pay a gazillion dollars to a private coach to teach "whatever", certainly that is their right and no high school coach should be suggesting otherwise to the parent. And why does a parent think they have to interfere with the high school coach? It's an understanding of simple jurisdiction. This is mine and that's yours. We don't have to work together, we just have to not fight each other.
Do you want to be part of the team or not? Or simply a distraction. Then perform and practice as asked. Do you want to coach the baseball team? Then coach it and let the cards fall where they may when a player is receiving extracurricular instruction whether helpful or harmful, right or wrong, it's none of your business what their outside decisions are. I'd venture to say that playing "Call of Duty" on line until 3AM is more harmful to your program than outside instruction.
The most valuable player on the team is the low maintenance guy that shows up everyday, hits naturally without "tweeking", throws hard because he loves the challenge not because an ex minor leaguer taught him how to scap load or jager long toss. He probably also plays two other sports, doesn't whine about drills or extra practice and stays academically eligible without any friendly help from the teaching staff. Give me one of those guys, and I'll put eight other guys out there by committee based on their status on any given day.
What ever happened to personal pride. Why can't you do the right thing just simply for personal pride instead of this rule or that punishment? It's just a question............
If a parent wants to pay a gazillion dollars to a private coach to teach "whatever", certainly that is their right and no high school coach should be suggesting otherwise to the parent. And why does a parent think they have to interfere with the high school coach? It's an understanding of simple jurisdiction. This is mine and that's yours. We don't have to work together, we just have to not fight each other.
Do you want to be part of the team or not? Or simply a distraction. Then perform and practice as asked. Do you want to coach the baseball team? Then coach it and let the cards fall where they may when a player is receiving extracurricular instruction whether helpful or harmful, right or wrong, it's none of your business what their outside decisions are. I'd venture to say that playing "Call of Duty" on line until 3AM is more harmful to your program than outside instruction.
The most valuable player on the team is the low maintenance guy that shows up everyday, hits naturally without "tweeking", throws hard because he loves the challenge not because an ex minor leaguer taught him how to scap load or jager long toss. He probably also plays two other sports, doesn't whine about drills or extra practice and stays academically eligible without any friendly help from the teaching staff. Give me one of those guys, and I'll put eight other guys out there by committee based on their status on any given day.
What ever happened to personal pride. Why can't you do the right thing just simply for personal pride instead of this rule or that punishment? It's just a question............
More instruction = better players. In the long run, it usually works out. Every hitting/pitching system has merit. There's no one way to do it. Problems start when the player has completely bought into a particular system and refuses to make adjustments. As long as the kid is open to suggestions, I don't care where a player goes for instruction. If he stands on his head and hits line-drives, he plays. If he sticks to his instructors system and fails, put someone else in there. The best motivator in baseball history is still the end of the bench.
The OP states that his brothers HS coach who knows nothing about pitching has asked the pitchers not to take lessons.
Why not just go back and ask why he prefers it that way.
Sons HS coach did the same, however, he did have a volunteer coach that new a lot about pitching and he worked with the pitchers, he actually was one of the best my son worked with, for free.
It is my opinion that pitchers should not take lessons while they are in season nfor obvious reasons. I don't think any HS coach, whether he knows what he is doing or not, needs to work around a player who takes lessons.
I really don't get this either, players taking lessons from the same instuctor year after year after year. But I realize that is a priority, parents can spend their money as they wish. Mine never had a paid lesson in his life, and his college pitching coach really liked that, told us that too many are way over coached, hard to work with.
Do lessons really help anyway unless the player recognizes what he is doing wrong to adjust?
However, if one has been sending player for years for lessons and he still isn't getting it done or attention, when do you say enough is enough?
I don't beleive that more instruction makes one a better player. Most really good coaches (and instructors) leave players alone if they are getting the job done. I feel people are obsessed with over coaching. Instructors make their living giving lessons, no way are they ever going to tell you to stop coming.
Why not just go back and ask why he prefers it that way.
It is my opinion that pitchers should not take lessons while they are in season nfor obvious reasons. I don't think any HS coach, whether he knows what he is doing or not, needs to work around a player who takes lessons.
I really don't get this either, players taking lessons from the same instuctor year after year after year. But I realize that is a priority, parents can spend their money as they wish. Mine never had a paid lesson in his life, and his college pitching coach really liked that, told us that too many are way over coached, hard to work with.
Do lessons really help anyway unless the player recognizes what he is doing wrong to adjust?
However, if one has been sending player for years for lessons and he still isn't getting it done or attention, when do you say enough is enough?
I don't beleive that more instruction makes one a better player. Most really good coaches (and instructors) leave players alone if they are getting the job done. I feel people are obsessed with over coaching. Instructors make their living giving lessons, no way are they ever going to tell you to stop coming.
Why does this only happen in baseball?
My guy has been with his current instructor since he was a sophomore in HS, he is now a Junior in College. We developed a team back then with a goal in mind to play ball professionally. The team consisted of myself my wife my son and my son's instructor (mentor).
The instructor had I believe 10 phases of instruction he wanted to impart and took it in sequense. It started with his hands, then synching his hands with his hip, posting his front leg etc. It involved understand pitch sequencing, learning to recognize pitches, reading pitches. Learning to let a pitch get deep if it is away, while hitting a pitch out front if it is on the innerhalf. Learning to develop a firm foundation to provide a stable base to make late adjustments to a pitch he is initially fooled on.
These are not mechanical items that require 4 lessons to identify and correct. This is an entire philosophy on hitting and leaning how to be the best you can be.
My guy at this point can have a phone conversation and because they both use the same language (which takes time in and of itself) can discuss necessary adjustments over the phone.
And the instructor does come to games, on his nickel.
He will be on our team until my guy hangs up his cleats, as he continues to work with players in the minors and the MLB.
Hopefully we will get to keep our team together for many years.
The instructor had I believe 10 phases of instruction he wanted to impart and took it in sequense. It started with his hands, then synching his hands with his hip, posting his front leg etc. It involved understand pitch sequencing, learning to recognize pitches, reading pitches. Learning to let a pitch get deep if it is away, while hitting a pitch out front if it is on the innerhalf. Learning to develop a firm foundation to provide a stable base to make late adjustments to a pitch he is initially fooled on.
These are not mechanical items that require 4 lessons to identify and correct. This is an entire philosophy on hitting and leaning how to be the best you can be.
My guy at this point can have a phone conversation and because they both use the same language (which takes time in and of itself) can discuss necessary adjustments over the phone.
And the instructor does come to games, on his nickel.
He will be on our team until my guy hangs up his cleats, as he continues to work with players in the minors and the MLB.
Hopefully we will get to keep our team together for many years.
First, the usual nod goes to the wisdom of Coach May.
IMO, a HS coach and staff, no matter how good they are, don't have enough time, resources or year-round exposure to the players to give each individual absolutely all the attention that they need to maximize their abilities. Good private instructors have tremendous value to those who wish to excel (natural studs the possible exception).
Regarding pitching, I agree with most posters. You cannot plan BP's and game days and expect things to go perfectly. It is generally not feasible to add additional BP's with private instructors during season.
For me, as a HS coach who works quite a bit with hitters, I always try to stay in touch with which player/s is working with what hitting instructors and make sure the players are comfortable speaking up if there is any confusion or conflict between what is being taught. It doesn't take long to figure out what philosophies the local instructors are teaching. If the same as mine (usually the case), the players buy in even more, hearing from two sources. Usually, the differences are varying terminology, visuals or drills designed for the same end result. The players appreciate having these things clarified. Of course, if a different philosophy is being taught and it works for them, I leave it alone. I study up enough to understand those other methods and throw out just enough to try to help them continue progression.
BTW, this private hitting instruction usually occurs outside of HS season, but an in-season tune-up or two doesn't hurt.
I respectfully disagree with the notion that just a handful of sessions with an instructor is enough. Players at the highest level continue to get instruction on a daily basis. Yes, you should learn to identify self-fixes as much as possible, but even the best need a trained eye on a regular basis. This applies even more so when working with younger players. I often see young players taught the right thing for years but it only clicks when they hit a maturity level that allows the lightbulb to turn on.
IMO, a HS coach and staff, no matter how good they are, don't have enough time, resources or year-round exposure to the players to give each individual absolutely all the attention that they need to maximize their abilities. Good private instructors have tremendous value to those who wish to excel (natural studs the possible exception).
Regarding pitching, I agree with most posters. You cannot plan BP's and game days and expect things to go perfectly. It is generally not feasible to add additional BP's with private instructors during season.
For me, as a HS coach who works quite a bit with hitters, I always try to stay in touch with which player/s is working with what hitting instructors and make sure the players are comfortable speaking up if there is any confusion or conflict between what is being taught. It doesn't take long to figure out what philosophies the local instructors are teaching. If the same as mine (usually the case), the players buy in even more, hearing from two sources. Usually, the differences are varying terminology, visuals or drills designed for the same end result. The players appreciate having these things clarified. Of course, if a different philosophy is being taught and it works for them, I leave it alone. I study up enough to understand those other methods and throw out just enough to try to help them continue progression.
BTW, this private hitting instruction usually occurs outside of HS season, but an in-season tune-up or two doesn't hurt.
I respectfully disagree with the notion that just a handful of sessions with an instructor is enough. Players at the highest level continue to get instruction on a daily basis. Yes, you should learn to identify self-fixes as much as possible, but even the best need a trained eye on a regular basis. This applies even more so when working with younger players. I often see young players taught the right thing for years but it only clicks when they hit a maturity level that allows the lightbulb to turn on.
quote:Originally posted by cabbagedad:
...if a different philosophy is being taught and it works for them, I leave it alone.
Makes sense to me, but what do you do when it doesn't work for them?
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by cabbagedad:
...if a different philosophy is being taught and it works for them, I leave it alone.
Makes sense to me, but what do you do when it doesn't work for them?
only charge half price for better instruction
JK. I've been lucky - different philosophy with only a few on non-HS teams that work so hard at what they do, it works for them.
If I had a HS player with this problem, we would discuss what wasn't working and why and discuss best recommended plan of action for his success.
Good post cabbagedad.
Players at the highest level receive feedback on a daily basis, that is a lot different than actual instruction. Instruction is usually done in the off season, that's why teams have instructional leagues. You can't go experimenting with changes during season.
Same way with college ball, instruction is done during fall, not in season.
No one says you should ever stop learning, but I understand why coaches ask that you do not take instruction during season.
I didn't mean obsessed with over coaching, I meant obsessed with over instruction.
JMO.
Players at the highest level receive feedback on a daily basis, that is a lot different than actual instruction. Instruction is usually done in the off season, that's why teams have instructional leagues. You can't go experimenting with changes during season.
Same way with college ball, instruction is done during fall, not in season.
No one says you should ever stop learning, but I understand why coaches ask that you do not take instruction during season.
I didn't mean obsessed with over coaching, I meant obsessed with over instruction.
JMO.
Thanks TPM,
Good points about the higher levels and laying the foundation before season. I will say that can be difficult at the HS level, particularly at smaller schools where there are typically multi-sport athletes, shorter seasons, shallow pools, etc.
Good points about the higher levels and laying the foundation before season. I will say that can be difficult at the HS level, particularly at smaller schools where there are typically multi-sport athletes, shorter seasons, shallow pools, etc.
There are no easy answers. Baseball requires great skill and ability to think and ask questions.
Each players should be trained to ask questions of his coach, instructor and of his parents.
With the answers he can "teach himself".
Batting cages are for testing, experiences with new grips, size of bat, weight of bat, standing tall couching, etc.
Many years ago in Houston I visited with Ralph Garr, former Atlanta Braves and National League batting champion. "Ralph, I asked, who was your hitting instructor"? He said Henry Aaron. I said what did Henry tell you? "FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF, RALPH!
In USA, a player plays for 3 teams during one year. In Japan, Australia, Latin America the same coaches each year.
All Japan, every HS have full length mirrors in each dressing room. Why? For the player to view his swing and pitching motion.
One year at the Area Code games, we held a hitting clinic with Dusty Baker, Tony Brewer and Eric Davis.
Davis controlled the clinic.
Eric said boys, do you see the radar guns? What is the pitcher throwing - FB's and "turn the bat loose". Once my son talked hitting with Barry Bonds for one hour. Bonds looks for the red strings on the ball. Delmon Young studies the pitcher before the game. Edgar Martinez watches his previous AB on TV. HS hitters and pitchers can request the coach or a teammate to review his previous time AB.
Summary: a good player, parent will obtain information from many sources - ask questions, study the great hitters and pitchers. Use U-tube.
This year in Australia, Dante Bichette and his family traveled to Brisbane and Adelaide. With our coaches [pro scouts and a minor league manager], we organized clinics for our players and the Australian
players.
Several of our scouts were in "awe" when Dante talked hitting. He spoke of "bat speed"
and anticipation of the pitch.
The one common separation between the young players is "mental and physical quickness". Question: how do we teach this tool?
Teach yourself with the help of your parents, coaches, team mates and pro scouts
Bob
Each players should be trained to ask questions of his coach, instructor and of his parents.
With the answers he can "teach himself".
Batting cages are for testing, experiences with new grips, size of bat, weight of bat, standing tall couching, etc.
Many years ago in Houston I visited with Ralph Garr, former Atlanta Braves and National League batting champion. "Ralph, I asked, who was your hitting instructor"? He said Henry Aaron. I said what did Henry tell you? "FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF, RALPH!
In USA, a player plays for 3 teams during one year. In Japan, Australia, Latin America the same coaches each year.
All Japan, every HS have full length mirrors in each dressing room. Why? For the player to view his swing and pitching motion.
One year at the Area Code games, we held a hitting clinic with Dusty Baker, Tony Brewer and Eric Davis.
Davis controlled the clinic.
Eric said boys, do you see the radar guns? What is the pitcher throwing - FB's and "turn the bat loose". Once my son talked hitting with Barry Bonds for one hour. Bonds looks for the red strings on the ball. Delmon Young studies the pitcher before the game. Edgar Martinez watches his previous AB on TV. HS hitters and pitchers can request the coach or a teammate to review his previous time AB.
Summary: a good player, parent will obtain information from many sources - ask questions, study the great hitters and pitchers. Use U-tube.
This year in Australia, Dante Bichette and his family traveled to Brisbane and Adelaide. With our coaches [pro scouts and a minor league manager], we organized clinics for our players and the Australian
players.
Several of our scouts were in "awe" when Dante talked hitting. He spoke of "bat speed"
and anticipation of the pitch.
The one common separation between the young players is "mental and physical quickness". Question: how do we teach this tool?
Teach yourself with the help of your parents, coaches, team mates and pro scouts
Bob
Very well said coach May. Most of the High School coaches where I am from may know pitching mechanics but don't have the time to instruct everyone or don't know how to instruct properly. That's fine because they are very giving of their time, however; there are those coaches that don't know how to instruct and won't allow their players to get proper pitching instruction.
I teach a lot of high School students under the radar so to speak. Not to go behind the coaches back, but to give the student a better opportunity to pursue their goals.
I teach a lot of high School students under the radar so to speak. Not to go behind the coaches back, but to give the student a better opportunity to pursue their goals.
Bob makes a lot of good points, the most important things to be successful either with hitting or pitching you cannot teach or instruct.
So sometimes I just have to wonder why a player needs to see an instructor weekly for years and years, Is it that the foundation was laid a while ago, but the house ain't getting put up. Figuring it out for yourself, is a skill all by itself. There are no lessons for this, you couldn't pay anyone enough for that.
So when I say that parents spend too much on over instructing, I really mean it. I am not sure it is because it is the thing to do. I question the value of a pitcher learning a new pitch and testing it out at gametime. There comes a time when the player needs to figure it out by himself, and if you need to rely on someone continually to figure it out for you, it's not going to happen.
The player should be doing his bb preparation for the season beforehand. Let me ask you this, does a basketball player take lessons in basketball season, a football player during football season?
So sometimes I just have to wonder why a player needs to see an instructor weekly for years and years, Is it that the foundation was laid a while ago, but the house ain't getting put up. Figuring it out for yourself, is a skill all by itself. There are no lessons for this, you couldn't pay anyone enough for that.
So when I say that parents spend too much on over instructing, I really mean it. I am not sure it is because it is the thing to do. I question the value of a pitcher learning a new pitch and testing it out at gametime. There comes a time when the player needs to figure it out by himself, and if you need to rely on someone continually to figure it out for you, it's not going to happen.
The player should be doing his bb preparation for the season beforehand. Let me ask you this, does a basketball player take lessons in basketball season, a football player during football season?
quote:Originally posted by Prime9:quote:I'm with Coach May in that these threads are basically useless. All they do is turn into a "bash all high school coaches" thread because some think that just because you pay for instruction it's better than what I would give.
Understandably, some very good HS Coaches here are sensitive. Many of us parents (I am going to try to include myself here) aren't baseball or sport virgins. We have played, coached and instructed not only our sons but players and teams as well. No way am I as qualified as our esteemed HS Coach contributors here on the forum and I, for one, recognize and admit that. I'm not among the HS Coach bashers and I hope there aren't those here that have that as their intent. I appreciate my sons HS Coaches contributions to experience and skills learned. He was himself, a noted College player and awarded both in the states of Texas and Georgia. There are a bunch of very dedicated men out there helping young players.
Conversely, there are others who are not so skilled and or have other agendas. That's life. A Coach often has other school responsibilities besides baseball. Additionally, he has so much knowledge to spread, so little time and resources, and so many needy players. In our case, the three year stop at HS Varsity baseball was but a part of the baseball journey so Dad and then other, more knowledgeable people augmented the learning curve.
To suggest that we may not be smart enough to figure out that one must be careful when selecting a coach or tutor as we may not get value .... is a bit demeaning; don't you think? Now who is being egotistical and who is being sensitive.
Prime I have no idea why you took offense to my quote but you obviously did. You wonder who's being egotistical and who is being sensitive? Well you got that right I'm a bit sensitive for those to throw out a blanket statement of high school coaches can't teach hitting or pitching as well as a private instructor. I actually find it quite funny that the PC response to not offend HS coaches is "they just don't have the time to put in due to the large number on the team". That is hilarious because we have the time to put in for fielding, baserunning, defense, defensive plays and the other aspects of the game but for some reason we can't do it for hitting or pitching when those are things done in practice as individual sessions. A kid is throwing a bullpen it's just the pitcher, catcher and a coach. I believe there is ample opportunity to get individual work there. During BP if a kid struggles in the cage it's pretty easy to pull them off to the side and work with them on a tee or in the batting tunnel or whatever. The team won't suffer if he's not in the field shagging.
Practice in season isn't for teaching how to hit or pitch. Or to field, or to run bases or anything baseball related. In season practice is about fine tuning and minor adjustments. The actual learning is done out of season as TPM has stated.
Prime you wondered why I got upset just look at several of the other posts in this thread of where people are very condescending towards HS coaches. You better believe I'm going to be sensitive about stuff like that.
quote:In our case, the three year stop at HS Varsity baseball was but a part of the baseball journey so Dad and then other, more knowledgeable people augmented the learning curve.
You seriously don't think this is a condescending nor a blanket statement? It's great that you know so much about baseball because I'm going to take your word for it. But really look at what you put and I think you will see where I'm coming from.
quote:To those that don't understand what I mean. A HS coach should not have to adjust his schedule with what he is doing. But if he has done his work correctly he should have his pitching rotation in line. Why can't you work with a kid and let them and the instructor know he should expect to pitch so he cen get the lesson in and not have any affect when he comes up in the rotation. Not slamming HS coaches but there are ways to get things accomplished if you think outside of the box. If my kid has a chance at a higher level of play no way I risk it by letting a HS coach, who only has him for 2 maybe 3 years, make decisions for me. To each his own, but we should all know that baseball is a sport where if you fall behind it is very hard to catch up. Even the pros during the season have people that they work with outside of the team staff. BUt parents are suppose to let a HS coach make my choices. Some of you will get offended and it doesn't apply to all but sounds like an ego problem to me.
Look at this quote by That's Baseball - do you not see the arrogance and condescending tone in this post? He wants the HS coach to rework everything to work around a private coach. Basically he wants the between start bullpen to happen with the private coach instead of during practice. Any HS coach worth a nickel would have a huge problem with this.
Prime I don't have a problem with you and actually enjoy reading what you post. Overall I believe I'm going to agree with you on more things that I will disagree. Honestly, I don't see where you took offense to what I put but it seems like you did but I'm not going to apologize for it. There are HS coaches who are very capable. There are private coaches who are very capable. Then there is the flip side for both. Guys who have no clue whatsoever but for some reason are able to get money out of parents for private lessons and those who are so self - conscious they forbid outside help. There are parents who truly don't know the difference. Some of it's due to ignorance and some of it's arrogance. Then there are those who suffer from both.
Coach2709,
I am not a coach but I understand the frustration, I do feel that there were some condesending remarks made.
I don't know you and I have no idea what type of coach you are. If you tell my player not to take lessons during season (which is so short really), he (son) should ask why to understand, and just because you are the coach, good or bad, I respect you for your opinion and expect son to do the same whether he likes you or not. That's how I see it.
I also agree that because someone charges for instruction, this does not mean that one will be getting qualified instruction, unless he is a qualified, certified instructor. Former or past D1, pro players do not necessarily make better instructors. FWIW, some of the best instruction my son got were from coaches that never played the game beyond HS.
I am not a coach but I understand the frustration, I do feel that there were some condesending remarks made.
I don't know you and I have no idea what type of coach you are. If you tell my player not to take lessons during season (which is so short really), he (son) should ask why to understand, and just because you are the coach, good or bad, I respect you for your opinion and expect son to do the same whether he likes you or not. That's how I see it.
I also agree that because someone charges for instruction, this does not mean that one will be getting qualified instruction, unless he is a qualified, certified instructor. Former or past D1, pro players do not necessarily make better instructors. FWIW, some of the best instruction my son got were from coaches that never played the game beyond HS.
Exactly..If a player's priority is the instructor, nobody is twisting his arm to play HS baseball if the coach prefers his players work with the HS program only during the season. My son's head coach didn't want his varsity players playing in the local rec league during the season and they didn't. Besides, they practice and play six days a week so where are they gonna have the time to do extra reps with an outside instructor.
Let the player think of it as one of those life lessons. Two people may have the same job but work for different companies but one may get to do things in their company that the other can't. Coaches always preach that life lessons can be learned in baseball. This is one of them.
Let the player think of it as one of those life lessons. Two people may have the same job but work for different companies but one may get to do things in their company that the other can't. Coaches always preach that life lessons can be learned in baseball. This is one of them.
quote:Originally posted by The Pitching Academy:
Very well said coach May. Most of the High School coaches where I am from may know pitching mechanics but don't have the time to instruct everyone or don't know how to instruct properly. That's fine because they are very giving of their time, however; there are those coaches that don't know how to instruct and won't allow their players to get proper pitching instruction.
I teach a lot of high School students under the radar so to speak. Not to go behind the coaches back, but to give the student a better opportunity to pursue their goals.
So you are giving lessons to players during season, without the coaches knowledge? Does your instruction time replace bull pen sessions?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03...&partner=rss&emc=rss
TPM;
thank you.
With your son "a heart beat" from the MLB, you have the opportunity to interview your son on his preparation before a game and his adjustments during a game. Keep a diary of his comments.
Baseball is the only game where you can fail as a hitter 2 out three times and "be successful".
Please read the article today in the NY Times on Jeters adjustments. Jeter is using his front foot as a "timer". The is the similar to Dante Bichette's clinical advice in Australia. Jeter is working on improving his "bat speed". Many of the professional pitching and hitting coach will not offer to help a player until the players requests "help".
All HS baseball players have the ability to ask questions.
Why do they not? Does a HS hitter watch the opposing pitcher warm up in the bullpen. This is called "take away" pitches. Coaches have a "full plate" w/o telling each player "to observe" and "to communicate".
Yesterday at SSU, I sat with a pro scout for one hour and we discussed who he was watching and what did he observe. We also discussed scouting this year with the new bats and scouting by the sound of the bat hitting the ball. "A wonderful day" in the sun.
Bob
TPM;
thank you.
With your son "a heart beat" from the MLB, you have the opportunity to interview your son on his preparation before a game and his adjustments during a game. Keep a diary of his comments.
Baseball is the only game where you can fail as a hitter 2 out three times and "be successful".
Please read the article today in the NY Times on Jeters adjustments. Jeter is using his front foot as a "timer". The is the similar to Dante Bichette's clinical advice in Australia. Jeter is working on improving his "bat speed". Many of the professional pitching and hitting coach will not offer to help a player until the players requests "help".
All HS baseball players have the ability to ask questions.
Why do they not? Does a HS hitter watch the opposing pitcher warm up in the bullpen. This is called "take away" pitches. Coaches have a "full plate" w/o telling each player "to observe" and "to communicate".
Yesterday at SSU, I sat with a pro scout for one hour and we discussed who he was watching and what did he observe. We also discussed scouting this year with the new bats and scouting by the sound of the bat hitting the ball. "A wonderful day" in the sun.
Bob
quote:Prime I have no idea why you took offense to my quote but you obviously did.
Well Coach, I'm very sorry you think that but certainly not the case or my intent. I merely intended to convey that I would HOPE that bashing HS Coaches wasn't what anyone had in mind with this thread and that my experiences with our HS Coach was positive. I believe I went on to say about how knowledgeable many of them are, how hard they work to help players and what a tough challenge they have!
Is that not what I said?
I didn't mean that I was an expert only that I was his first and primary Coach for many years before he saw a Coach during his relatively short stay in high school.
lol Coach, keep caring and you will continue to be a good teacher.
Prime I guess we can chalk this up to miscommunication based on the written internet word and not being able to get meaning based on not hearing how it's said. I will readily admit, and I believe my posting history shows, I will defend high school coaches in a heartbeat because of the things I've been through and things I've seen others go through.
I hate to say this but I truly think it's going to get worse to be a high school coach in all sports.
I hate to say this but I truly think it's going to get worse to be a high school coach in all sports.
quote:I hate to say this but I truly think it's going to get worse to be a high school coach in all sports.
It is getting more difficult not only to coach, but also to administer or teach in public schools!
So why is this? I ask because I see this also. Many times when we see things shifting it has to do with money.
Lefty...
Lefty...
Yeah...it's the money required to live the lifestyle we are accustomed to. Two parents at work and no parent at home, lack of discipline and many parents these days seem to side with their children as opposed to the authority figure such as teachers and school administrators.
It is the breakdown of the family as a unit, and a culture of entitlement.
But I think this is a whole 'nother thread that does not belong here...sorry...
It is the breakdown of the family as a unit, and a culture of entitlement.
But I think this is a whole 'nother thread that does not belong here...sorry...
quote:It is getting more difficult not only to coach, but also to administer or teach in public schools!
It is mostly due to politics and the bureaucracy of governmental incompetence. Many parents have no choice. They see their school system churning out functional illiterates. They have no respect for teachers or administrators. The same teachers and administrators are working nine or ten months of the year, receiving upper middle class income and 100% retirement, as well as exercising freedom to strike and bad mouthing their students on public forums. And they perform their duties with arrogance. Teachers don't have the option to be creative anymore. They are told what to teach so that the evaluational exams for schools can be positive and so that the money flow is not affected. No private company could be run this way. Teachers who are coaches face a basic lack of respect from parents that is deep seated and many won't take the time necessary to build a rapport with their parents.
Students adopt their parent's disrespect. There are some things money can't fix. So coach at your own risk.
quote:Originally posted by PA Dino:
...and bad mouthing their students on public forums.
Shame on them!
I will agree with this....
AND this....
BUT I will disagree with this.....
AND this....
quote:It is mostly due to politics and the bureaucracy of governmental incompetence. Many parents have no choice. They see their school system churning out functional illiterates. They have no respect for teachers or administrators.
AND this....
quote:Teachers don't have the option to be creative anymore. They are told what to teach so that the evaluational exams for schools can be positive and so that the money flow is not affected. No private company could be run this way. Teachers who are coaches face a basic lack of respect from parents that is deep seated and
BUT I will disagree with this.....
quote:The same teachers and administrators are working nine or ten months of the year, receiving upper middle class income and 100% retirement, as well as exercising freedom to strike and .... And they perform their duties with arrogance.
AND this....
quote:many won't take the time necessary to build a rapport with their parents.
I'm trying to keep within the framework of the original scenario here. What developed was a comment on how hard it is to be a teacher or coach these days.
I sympathize with that view pertaining to teachers/coaches who are trying their level best to deal with parents who are idiots but it goes both ways. Lately, teachers/coaches are not fairing too well in the public domain.
What I remember from my interaction with teachers/administrators/coaches is that a few were arrogant, disrespectful, and down right unhelpful. There were plenty of nice people trying to be good teachers but were bogged down by politics and bureaucracy. The point is, I don't immediately remember the good ones. It's the bad ones that made an impression.
Things like this don't help:
Tobacco Settlement Funds
When I was a high school student athlete, there was no such thing as "private instruction". Just seems to me like trying to pound a square peg in a round hole. I can't understand why coaches or parents have to be so dang bull headed. Just play/coach the game and let everything else go.
I sympathize with that view pertaining to teachers/coaches who are trying their level best to deal with parents who are idiots but it goes both ways. Lately, teachers/coaches are not fairing too well in the public domain.
What I remember from my interaction with teachers/administrators/coaches is that a few were arrogant, disrespectful, and down right unhelpful. There were plenty of nice people trying to be good teachers but were bogged down by politics and bureaucracy. The point is, I don't immediately remember the good ones. It's the bad ones that made an impression.
Things like this don't help:
quote:In total, $1.34 billion in tobacco settlement dollars was redirected from its original purpose, Wagner said. His auditors found that $432.4 million was redirected to the state’s General Fund for unspecified purposes, $121 million was used to fulfill a General Fund obligation to the Public School Employees’ Retirement System , and $795.3 million was used to fund Medicaid long-term care for seniors and persons with disabilities.
Tobacco Settlement Funds
When I was a high school student athlete, there was no such thing as "private instruction". Just seems to me like trying to pound a square peg in a round hole. I can't understand why coaches or parents have to be so dang bull headed. Just play/coach the game and let everything else go.
We would still go to the private instructor.
PA Dino, I don't see the point in your bold statement there....
The Tobacco Settlement Fund is an annual payment by US tobacco companies to 46 states to compensate for medical costs related to caring for persons with smoking related health care issues. This agreement resulted from Medicaid lawsuits filed by 46 States Attorney's General. In Pennsylvania the money is to be used for adultbasic health insurance for Pennsylvanians who don't qualify for Medicaid. Recently, 40,000 Pennsylvanians lost health care coverage when the Pennsylvania blocked registration for the program and another 500,000 were taken off the waiting list. The associated account holding the tobacco settlement fund monies has basically been fleeced. The money was diverted to among other things "The Public School Employees Retirement System" in the sum of 121 million.
In the early part of the past decade, the Pennsylvania legislature voted themselves a 50% increase in their pensions and took along the school employees with them to the tune of a 25% increase as well as hefty cost of living adjustment for the already retired. Worse, payments to make up for theses increases into the retirement fund was delayed ten years. And now the fund is almost empty. The result is higher real estate taxes, cut programs and robbing the sick to pay the pension fund.
Politics and government involvement with schools is undermining respect between teachers and parents. It is becoming harder to coach in high school, no doubt.
quote:The Tobacco Settlement Act mandated that annual tobacco settlement payments be used according to these percentages: 8 percent deposited to an endowment account for the future, 30 percent for adultBasic and Medicaid for workers with disabilities, 18 percent for health research, 13 percent for home- and community-based services for the elderly, 12 percent for tobacco prevention and cessation programs, 10 percent to reimburse hospitals for uncompensated care, 8 percent to expand the PACENET prescription drug program, and 1 percent for cancer research.
In the early part of the past decade, the Pennsylvania legislature voted themselves a 50% increase in their pensions and took along the school employees with them to the tune of a 25% increase as well as hefty cost of living adjustment for the already retired. Worse, payments to make up for theses increases into the retirement fund was delayed ten years. And now the fund is almost empty. The result is higher real estate taxes, cut programs and robbing the sick to pay the pension fund.
Politics and government involvement with schools is undermining respect between teachers and parents. It is becoming harder to coach in high school, no doubt.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports...orida-marlins-_N.htm
This is another example of self teaching by learning from the professionals. Any questions?
Bob
This is another example of self teaching by learning from the professionals. Any questions?
Bob