Btw it is true that most wild throwers never learn to locate but at least there is a chance.
I wonder though if with the weighted ball programs out there if some teams will draft high 80s finesse college pitchers and try to get them to 90-93 with an aggressive weighted ball and lifting program.
Dominik85 posted:Btw it is true that most wild throwers never learn to locate but at least there is a chance.
I wonder though if with the weighted ball programs out there if some teams will draft high 80s finesse college pitchers and try to get them to 90-93 with an aggressive weighted ball and lifting program.
No, they will draft guys that are at 90 - 93 and try to get them to 95 - 98. MLB teams might sign a guy that throws high 80s to a free agent contract, but those are not the guys they are looking for. This year's MLB playoffs are perfect case in point. High velo pitchers all over the place.
Dominik85 posted:Btw it is true that most wild throwers never learn to locate but at least there is a chance.
Seems to definitive, where's the proof? "most and Never"
2020dad posted:Good friend top officially recorded fastball is 87. Has been 89 in independent workouts. Great change and curve. Really hard to hit. Has beaten many of the best travel teams in the Midwest over the years. He is 5'11". Zero offers and darn near zero interest. Life is not fair.
If he is high 80s with 2 plus off speed pitches - his coaches or parents are not holding up their end
PitchingFan posted:To swing the conversation to a more personal note. What velo does a LHP need to be drafted in top 10 rounds? Or does it also depend on movement and location, ability to get outs? Do you believe that MLB scouts have a hard velo for LHP and RHP for certain rounds?
The personal side is 2019 son has 89 verified by college and pro scouts but has been 92 on several guns in the spring. Averages 1.8 K's per inning over past 3 summers and springs. 1.2 walks per 7 innings pitched with .16 era over past 3 years summer and spring. We were discussing on ride back from Jupiter if there is a gold velo number after several pro scouts talked to us. Or if it is a combo of velo and pitchability?
MLB scouts are projecting the velo... but if you are not at least sitting 90 with command, and 3 pitches chances are not good for the top 10 rounds. The summer stats mean nothing....
Keep in mind area scouts are there to get information... they have very little to do with the draft and most will not be in the draft room. If you get some CC's or NSD to come next spring then all your questions will be answered.
Son's team has 5 LHP regularly 94+ 2 can pitch.... Read the D1baseball.com article on Vanderbilt. Corbin speaks to how far velo will get you.
PABaseball posted:2020dad posted:Good friend top officially recorded fastball is 87. Has been 89 in independent workouts. Great change and curve. Really hard to hit. Has beaten many of the best travel teams in the Midwest over the years. He is 5'11". Zero offers and darn near zero interest. Life is not fair.
If he is high 80s with 2 plus off speed pitches - his coaches or parents are not holding up their end
I’ve seen this. Does he at least have any walk on offers?
bacdorslider posted:MLB scouts are projecting the velo... but if you are not at least sitting 90 with command, and 3 pitches chances are not good for the top 10 rounds. The summer stats mean nothing....Keep in mind area scouts are there to get information... they have very little to do with the draft and most will not be in the draft room. If you get some CC's or NSD to come next spring then all your questions will be answered.
Son's team has 5 LHP regularly 94+ 2 can pitch.... Read the D1baseball.com article on Vanderbilt. Corbin speaks to how far velo will get you.
There are several pitchers that were taken top 10 rounds that touch, but don't "sit" 90. The Indians, my team, took one in the 2nd ( a submariner) and one in the 9th (strike thrower with 'stuff'). The guy in the 2nd round, Sandlin, is arguably the most dominant pitcher in the NCAA the last 2 seasons.
But citing an article by your son's HC and using his words to call out his lefty pitchers on an internet forum. All I can say is:
"It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it works out for him."
Sandlin is FILTHY!
we have friends whose son roomed with him at Southern, quality dude right there.
PitchingFan posted:I understand both sides but I also know you can't teach location for most pitchers who throw hard with no control. For most, they have to lose velocity to get control. But I reckon it is easier to lose velocity to get control than it is to try to gain velocity and keep control.
We had a son's friend who was drafted second round who struck out 18 and walked 17 in the same state playoff game. Set records for both. Almost lost the 1 hit game with 18 K's.
That is, at minimum, 123 pitches in that game......Somebody's math and/or common sense is way way off.....
I think pitching fan posted after that the actual pitch count was at/around 142
wow....thanks for the info....I hope no one ever puts my son in that situation...I promise I would not handle it well, regardless of the game situation...I guess this is exactly why pitch smart guidelines are in place now for High Schools in our state.
It was not pretty to watch in any form. The coach's answer after being asked was he kept saying he felt good. Again, no long term affects since he is pitching in majors today. But still not smart. I've just never figured out how you can have that much difference in control. I've seen this kid and others throw three great strikes and then 8 straight balls followed by strikes. I know it is mental but still baffles me.
I think a lot of inconsistencies start with the umpire....I know at the youth and and now high school levels, so many umpires refuse to call strikes at the bottom of the zone. My son is a lefty and he pitches down in the zone. Playing in the East Cobb area for the last 5 years, I've gotten to see a lot of umpires multiple times and believe me, they all have their own tendencies just like pitchers do. Knowing what pitches to throw that will be taken by the batter and be a called strike can make for a great outing. Those umpires with a coffee can sized strike zone make the day miserable for everybody....BTW, my son would never admit that he was fatigued until it got to a point where he was bouncing every pitch...
I think it happens a lot with guys with a lot of movement who paint corners. Umpires factor a lot into that too.
Bodeen8265 posted:I think a lot of inconsistencies start with the umpire....I know at the youth and and now high school levels, so many umpires refuse to call strikes at the bottom of the zone. My son is a lefty and he pitches down in the zone. Playing in the East Cobb area for the last 5 years, I've gotten to see a lot of umpires multiple times and believe me, they all have their own tendencies just like pitchers do. Knowing what pitches to throw that will be taken by the batter and be a called strike can make for a great outing. Those umpires with a coffee can sized strike zone make the day miserable for everybody....BTW, my son would never admit that he was fatigued until it got to a point where he was bouncing every pitch...
No doubt that most youth & HS umpires are pretty bad - some are horrible. The game really needs good young umpires that don’t have a chip on their shoulder. But part of pitching is figuring out each umpire’s strike zone - and then pitching to it. Sometimes this requires a little dialogue between the catcher (not the pitcher) and the umpire. The catcher has to be respectful about how he goes about it & the umpire has to be willing to define his strike zone w/o being defensive. This used to be commonplace. Now, not so much.
Absolutely. Part of pitching is figuring out the strike zone that day, and adhering to it. It is frustrating when the calls are inconsistent, because there isn't much you can do about it. Only consolation there is that a constantly varying strike zone hurts(or helps) both the hitter and the pitcher.
RoadRunner posted:PABaseball posted:2020dad posted:Good friend top officially recorded fastball is 87. Has been 89 in independent workouts. Great change and curve. Really hard to hit. Has beaten many of the best travel teams in the Midwest over the years. He is 5'11". Zero offers and darn near zero interest. Life is not fair.
If he is high 80s with 2 plus off speed pitches - his coaches or parents are not holding up their end
I’ve seen this. Does he at least have any walk on offers?
No. But you are correct. Good friend so don't want to get into it but I think dad is just afraid. Putting yourself out there could lead to heartbreak. I get it. First football camp last year was a huge one. My son was doing one one ones with Jim harbaugh calling the cadence and standing right there. Pressure. My son couldn't eat the night before. And believe me thats unusual!! So I get it. It's hard. I am trying to get him to be a bit more proactive. I think he's gonna join my son on a visit in November. We will talk to football him to baseball and meet back up for the game.
I understand and agree on bad umpiring. But that is not the case for this young man and several others including one of the PG top prospects from Jupiter. This kid is either on or off. Has to be mental in some great way. He threw the first pitch of that game 10 feet up the backstop. Everybody thought he was joking but first five pitches did not come within 5 feet of home plate. Coach just laughs and says he will settle in. Walked 2 first inning and then struckout 2 then walked bases loaded then struck out last batter. It was sad to watch. My son pitched against a top prospect this summer who walked four straight before he threw a legitimate strike. He never made it out of second but PG had good writeup and several scouts said man he was throwing gas. I laughed because one was an acquaintance and I said if that was gas he just burned down all 8 fields at LP except this one. He was terrible but is top pitcher in 2019 class according to most. He is either on or off or both in the same game.
Once an opinion has been put into writing on a kid, very seldom will anyone dare contradict it...as well that they shouldn't, because they are just kids and to go off on a negative slant about anyone of them could be soul crushing....that's why I try not to look at someone's written account of someone else's body of work....these scouting write up's should be mostly positive and used solely as bait for a scout to show up and watch the kid in person (hopefully for more than 1 inning).
There are soft throwers who can't locate. But no one cares because they never pitch. Of course coaches love velo. They love speed too and some really fast guys can't run the bases. They love power too. But some guys with a ton of power can't hit. They love athletic kids. But some really athletic kids can't play. What has a coach lost if he takes a chance on a kid with a good arm who can't locate? What has he gained if it pans out?
People get upset when they see a kid have so much success at the HS level but not get interest or interest from schools they believe he should. Then they see a kid who has not had success or the success their guy has had but he get's opportunities solely based on velo, or other metrics outside of actual performance. A kid goes to a camp and runs a 6.3 60. He's 6'3 185 extremely athletic. He drops bombs in bp. He throws very well. Everyone is on him. Their kid runs a 7.1 60, is 5'9, average athletically, throws ok and has had tremendous success at the HS level. No one is on him.
One kid goes to State U and never see's the field. Ends up out of the game. The other kid goes to a D2 or D3, ends up playing 4 years. Has a great college baseball experience. Maybe gets drafted after he has 4 or 5 years to develop. But even if not he played. He had a great experience. Maybe some really good coach see's enough of him to appreciate the fact even though the metrics are not there the talent and ability to play the game is. Maybe he ends up at a Power 5 or a Mid Major? But regardless he ended up where he was appreciated for who he is.
So in other words so what? Let it play out. Yes coaches love velo. Coaches love power. Coaches love athletic players. And Coaches play the guys who give them the best opportunity to win. And coaches love guys who can play more than anything else. If your kid can pitch and doesn't throw hard enough find a place that he does throw hard enough for. If it means that much to him he can find a place and then it's up to him.
