Coaches Negative Comments

It is great to hear that your son had the stones to tell his coach no. It's also a good thing that your son is taking care of himself. It appears that it may be difficult to entrust that task to his coach.

Wow, if that was my son I'd want to go toe to toe with the Assistant Coach too! It's a good thing that you and your husband have a chance to sleep on it tonight and cool down a little. I would visit with the Head Coach on Tuesday, and express your concerns regarding the remarks the assistant made. I would also mention the fact that his arm was injured in a recent game, and he was advised by a "doctor friend" to take it easy. Making sure your son's arm is healthy is your biggest issue.

I would hope that the assistant coach realizes what a mistake he made and apologizes for calling your son gutless & pathetic. If he doesn't apologize, I know what I would do as a father...but you may want to take the Higher Road! ...keep us updated! BTW, I'm sorry this has to be your first Post, but welcome to this incredible site!

First of all, welcome to HSBBW! It's a great place to share ideas. I think you did the wise thing by sleeping on it and cooling off before telling him what you'd really like to tell him. That's how we all are, we'd all love to tell this guy to go procreate himself. However, while that might feel good to tell him off, it isn't likely to have a positve result for your son, and that is what matters. I'd have your son talk with the head coach, and remind him that his arm is injured and he was advised by a doctor to take it easy for a bit. The assistant coach is way out of line for his comments, and that should be noted, either by your son, or by the parents when the time is appropriate. If the coach thinks your son is gutless and pathetic, perhaps you should purchase a gift for him... a mirror. That kind of behavior is exactly what he described, only he was talking about himself. Real men coach by motivating, teaching, leading by example, while pathetic losers try to bully players since they don't know proper ways to deal with players.

Just for clarity, was it the assistant coach who berated your son or the head coach?

It it was the assistant, you could approach the head coach on the matter.

If it was the head coach, then I would say that the AD and medical staff at the school should be contacted for discussion.

You and your child have only one voyage through this life. Coaches have many kids they could either nurture or ruin.

I hope the other coach is willing to come forward if requested.

Again, welcome to the HSBBW.

Did the player indicate to the coaching staff or the medical staf that there was arm pain before the game or mention he tried to be ready by ice and rest and it wasn't responding? Not that the sssistant was too bright by berating the kid in front of everybody but did he go to the game without saying a word about the injury and then just mention it before gametime?

What are the other issues?

A similar incident happened to a pitcher on our JV team 2 years ago. The boys arm had been bothering him so his parents took him to the doctor. He was told by the doctor no throwing for a couple of weeks. The coach didn't call the player out directly, but, made comments to the effect that if certain players would "suck it up" the team could do well in the season. Well that player went ahead and pitched and guess what, he had to have surgery shortly there after. Unfortunately, the parents didn't force the issue with the administration and the coach still coaches.

It is a coin flip, I'm inclined to say let it play out. If there's no repercussions to your son, maybe it is best left alone. Sounds like your son handled it just fine.

I doubt the assistant coach is going to become a better person because he's called out on this. I also bet the head coach knows he has a gutless bully for an assistant.

Sorry , I would have punched the coach in the mouth , but that's just me .

It's a great chance to teach your son authority figures can still be idiots, but you still treat them like authority figures. But, you have to take care of your own health above all else regardless of what the authority figure says.

You're almost at the end of the season. Is your son a senior or underclassman? Either way, I would get your son in to see a trusted specialist. Send me a PM if you're in North Texas and don't know...I'll give you a few names. Then follow the doctors orders regardless of what the coach says. If underclassman, I would have son explain doctors orders to the head coach and trainer. If senior, I would have son do the same thing...but I would be headed to the AD's office at the same time and explain the concept of liability to him...

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Welcome aboard theyard. I think you are receiving some great advice so far.

When you fill in the blanks to the questions that have been raised you will get even more advice...tailored close to what you need.

You have taken all of the correct steps so far. Your son has a set of good parents!

I hope that his situation plays out as best as possible.



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quote:

Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
Sorry , I would have punched the coach in the mouth , but that's just me .

No you would'nt.

Sounds like the football coach is moonlighting as a baseball coach.

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What is the reason for the sudden interest in the current buzz word "Bully"?

It seems that is anyone, male or female, says anything "strong" or what someone takes as offensive then that person is a bully.

An assistant coach...let's say in his 30s...tells a pitcher with an arm injury who is in his teens he's gutless and pathetic in front of his teammates, opposing team and opposing coach. Bully sounds like the word Webster would use..."to act the bully toward; intimidate; domineer". What would you call it?

Tx-Husker I'm not saying you're wrong but I bet this guy is young and in his early 20's. Probably still wet behind the ears.

Not saying this justifies what he did - it's wrong no matter the age - but this seems to be a young guy thing.

I don't disagree with you coach. But the "take the hill" approach crosses the line when you're talking about arm injuries with baseball players.

Dad04 is probably right...the guy sounds like a football coach who just found out a baseball is round this year. I don't think that excuses the coach's actions. This isn't a lot different than the football coaches who deny players water in those early fall workouts. Both put the player's health at risk.

I'm with Coach May in terms of the "other issues." What are they?
Since there is nothing in the post that the HC knows of this and has not provided any input or provided any response, it seems he needs that option.
It feels a bit odd to envision how the opposing coach got this information to you, but not to the HC of your son's team, but I will assume it was done for positive reasons only. It also seems odd there is no mention of the HC to this point.
From what is posted, I would suggest your son ask the head coach for a meeting and leave it to the HC to determine if the assistant coach should be present.
You have posted about 3 different issues your son should discuss with the HC.
The first issue to discuss with the HC relates to your son's injury/ability to play/pitch. Maybe I just made a mistake on the elevate but that led me to think this is ankle/lower extremity rather than arm shoulder related. In any event, it would seem there needs to be a discussion and understanding with the HC on this issue and what is needed to support not pitching due to injury(doctor's note or what) and who makes the decision.
The second issue relates to the belittling/insulting nature of the comments made.
The third issue relates to making them and belittling your son in front of the teammates, opposing team and coaches.

To me, right now, this is your son's and a team issue. If he deals with it directly and the HC does nothing on any aspect and fully supports the assistant, then look an other options. If an opposing coach legitimately felt this was wrong and that is the reason he brought it to you, then one would assume the HC may have similar feelings.
If your son deals with it as a player and team issue and the HC acts, it never becomes a parent issue and everyone likely will be better off.

I agree that there may be other underlying issues that hopefully could have been handled internally without the parents. However, that was thrown out once the assistant coach called the young man gutless & pathetic...IMHO!

I don't know that there is a right/wrong answer here.
You may be right and I certainly may be underestimating. I may have more confidence in the head coach based on the experiences our son had with all of his coaches over the years.
What was troublesome for me in the information was the absence of anything to indicate the head coach knew/was aware of any of this, nor any indication the issue had been taken to him. I also was not sure it is an arm/shoulder issue for the reason I posted.
The other item that I could not figure out was the comment the opposing coach brought it to the poster's attention. Something about that in the post just seems unusual.
My view was/is until the player brings it to the head coach, it remains a team issue between the player and the head coach. A good head coach would take quick action and decisive action to address the comments as they are described, based on all the experience our son had. In fact, I think our son would have insisted on that option before anything more was done.

INFDad,

The fact that the ignorant comments were brought to the attention per the opposing coach, definitely raises a Red Flag. I would make the assumption that the assistant is relatively young, and has some maturing to do? But, who knows...you're right, we'll have to see how this plays out? Hopefully TY's son and the coaching staff take care of the issue at practice this afternoon.

That may indeed be the reason the opposing coach took action and felt he should not contact the Head Coach but that if/when the HC knew, he would take action.
Not sure about the young aspect.
Our son had a long, long time Milb manager who, in effect, said the same thing to him. At the time, our son was sitting in his office with documented labral tears that needed surgery, amongst other issues.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

Not sure about the young aspect.
Our son had a long, long time Milb manager who, in effect, said the same thing to him. At the time, our son was sitting in his office with documented labral tears that needed surgery, amongst other issues.

I'm sorry to hear about that! I guess we can never tell when it come to these types of issues?

I just had an opportunity to get on the site and see you all had some questions to my original post.

The other issues are the asst. coach has made nasty comments before and nothing seems to be done about it. However, not in front of another team/coach and certainly not of this berating nature.

I guess because my son has some player friends on the other team and the opposing coach knows him personally, he felt the need to tell us about the incident. He thinks a lot of our son and knows he is a competitor and would never wimp out on an opportuntity to compete. He felt the AC was out of line.

The HC and the Asst. Coach claim they weren't aware of the injury, however at the game where the injury occured, my son was unable to throw after being hit in the elbow and was icing in the dugout. He didn't see the coaches again until right before the game last night. He knew the expecation was there that he pitch and he really wanted to last night and was going to try it, but his father and I told him that one game was not worth the potential of injuring his arm further.

The opposing team is still talking about this today and one player friend (from the other team) sent my son a message today saying he was present when our Asst. Coach told the other team that my son was afraid to throw against them. So the AC continued on with his comments after the initial outburst.

By the way, this man is in his forties.

My son is at a track meet today so he hasn't had an opportunity to speak with either of the coaches today. My husband did call the HC last night but got voice mail. The HC emailed today apologizing for the behavior of his AC.

I find it unfortunate that one would feel it is acceptable to lose his cool like this and speak to young men or women in this fashion. Apparently, his excuse was that the jv team played horribly right before the varsity game. Words sting and are not likely to be forgotten anytime soon especially for young impressionable students.

Fortunately, we are done with this individual after this season.

Hopefully, this issue will be addressed at the next practice and the AC will issue a team apology.

Thank you all for your feedback.

Just speculation, but it sounds like your husband may have insisted on a public apology in his voice mail. I can see where that might seem like the right thing to do, but it could lead to resentment on the part of the asst, while a personal apology might not have been as hard to stomach.

Generally speaking, it isn't a good idea to embarass a coach and it also puts the head coach in a bad position with his assistant which he might resent to some degree.

Hope it all works out well.

theyard,
Thank you for the update and additional information.
I can assure you that words of that type to a highly competitive and proud athlete sting, at any age and not just for impressionable students.
That it came from a coach, at least for our son, elevated the issue because of his respect for and trust in "Coaches."
With all of that said, I do have one suggestion on the issue. Rather than assuming the HC knew of the injury, perhaps better/earlier communication might have made a difference.
Coaches usually have their line ups set before they arrive for the game.
Your first post said this was an important game and your son was expected to pitch.
When the family decision was made that he would not pitch due to injury, having your son notify the HC at that point, if he didn't, might have avoided what is clearly an unpleasant situation.
Maybe that was done and just not included on a message board since we cannot think of/include everything.
Just suggesting, if the HC did not know, I think he should have known and earlier than is suggested in the thread.

Some great advise by all....

As much as we all somewhat agree that the coach may be out of line, I've always tried to tell my kids that there is something to learn from every experience. In this case, explaining that there are all "types" in this world, the ones that get respect are the ones that act responsibly toward others is a lesson that is hard to explain without an "experience" to associate it with. What he will also learn is how mom-n-dad react to the situation. Be careful and think about your public response because that "like father like son" cliche is many times picked up in negative situations.

This might go over like a s**t sandwich but here goes anyway.

How long have you guys been around this game? How many of you have had a kid that has played from Tball to College to the Pro ranks? How many of you have had your son come home to you and cry on your shoulder about what a coach said? Or came home to you about something that a coach said to another player?

How many of you have heard one story from a mom or a dad only to hear a totally different story from the boys on the team once all the bs was shifted through? How many times has the word on the street been totally different than what actually happened? How many times have you seen a kid called out who then tried to deflect it on to someone else?

There are two sides to every story. The problem is we are only going to get one side on this site in this particular situation. I have some issues with the post. #1 If your hurt so bad you can not pitch you are hurt to bad to play. #2 The information is coming back from the opposing coach and opposing team. And now we find out they know him and like him. #3 This coach just up and said that with no prior history regarding this player?

Now what is being posted could be true. It could be 100% a coach who has no business coaching hs baseball. Or it could be a case of a hard a*s coach and a kid who is soft and was called out for being soft.

We have no way of knowing for sure. What I do know is this site seems to be the place for every person who has an issue with a coach to come and find a shoulder to cry on. And its getting more and more frequent. And quite honestly the kid is in HS. Deal with it. Deal with getting called out. Go to the coach and let him know how you feel one on one. "Coach , thats BS. You had no reason to call me out like that." Thats what I want to see.

Going home and having mommy and daddy , the opposing coach , the other team , blah blah blah - seriously. Is this high school or the local aau team? There are hard a** coaches at every level. And yes some are very hard indeed. You either learn to come back like a man or you go home and cry on someone's shoulder.

If this happened to my son I would first of all ask him. "Well were you hurt? Ok no problem then you couldnt play anyway. Did he **** you off when he said that to you? Ok. Did you get in his face and tell him that he did? Why not? Well when you decide your man enough to stand up for yourself let me know. Otherwise deal with it or turn your stuff in.

If he did get in the coaches face and he was disciplined unfairly for sticking up for himself then I am going to get in someones face. Outside of that whats the problem? You got a coach ticked that a kid wouldnt take the ball. He acted in an immature manner when he didnt take the ball. If the story is legit. Then teach your son how to deal with this immature coach and stand up to him like a man. Or you can teach him how to sit back and let everyone else fight his battles for him.

Run behind your kid and put every fire out and hurry up and check out the smoke too because a fire might be starting. Or teach them to deal with these situations and let them know they can come to you when they need to.

I am not saying this coach was right. If he did what was posted he was dead wrong. So PLAYER - Go to him and let him know it. Those that get walked on are those who allow others to walk on them. I see this as a perfect opportunity to let this guy know he is not going to walk on me.

This is just my opinion. But how many threads are we going to have about a player a parent and a psycho coach? Dam most coaches are a little nuts. Deal with it.

quote:

This is just my opinion. But how many threads are we going to have about a player a parent and a psycho coach? Dam most coaches are a little nuts. Deal with it.

Coach May,

You continue to scare me with your thinking. (If you know what I mean? LOL)

BTW, Not only are most coaches a little nuts, I'd say most all of the best coaches are more than a little nuts! Otherwise, they would find something else to do.

quote:

Dam most coaches are a little nuts. Deal with it.

Coach May, what you posted just has to be said. Balance is important and there are too many times when coaches end up on the short end in threads. Both you and rz1 make great points about parents/players and coaches and those relationships.
One of the first and hardest things our son learned as a coach was to take a good player who is playing well and try to get him to realize he needs to work harder and reach higher because he is only scratching his surface. Some take to it and some resist. Suggesting to a player that he get his head out of his a$$ is sometimes construed as a negative when the result sought is so positive. Hard to see the tree when you are stuck inside the forest.
With that said, since our son is now a coach, I am really pi**ed you would say that about him.

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"BTW, Not only are most coaches a little nuts, I'd say most all of the best coaches are more than a little nuts!"

And schizophrenic too!




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Even if the opposing coach IS a friend what the heck is doing getting involved and talking to you and your son about it--what is that all about???

Coach May great post.

To the original poster, I started getting uncomfortable when you where reporting what the opposing team was saying. That has nothing to do with anything imho and this was not a federal offense.

That said, the coach here appears to be out of line and acted like a jerk. I think Coach May's advice is correct however - let your son handle it and stay out of the rumor-mongering/drama-queen stuff.

Coach May,
I agree with you.

You bring up a lot of good points, so do others, one of them being there are two sides to every story. And from what I am reading, the parent didn't hear it from their son, but from the opposing coach (who had no business opening his mouth). With that knowledge, the only thing that should have been done was to sit down with your son and help him to handle it by suggesting that he go to speak to the HC, and staying out of it.
Unfortunetly what we think is nuts is just another part of the relationship that is often between a particular coach and his players and how he has to motivate some, and sometimes it's not all accomplished with honey but more with vinegar. My son's best coaches were in your face, you are not going to like what you hear from me, kind of guys and all I could say (to myslef) after hearing the story was "right on coach".

Coach May,
I've seen both sides. I've seen the parents over react and I've seen just plain bad coaches. More often I've seen something in between with parents not understanding baseball and coaches going a bit overboard. I've seen coaches hurt players by pushing them too hard and I've seen coaches help players by pushing them harder than they thought was possible. Sometimes it is a fine line. One time I saw a HS coach over use a pitcher. It was just plain wrong what that coach did, but the college coach who was there was so impressed with the kid's toughness he decided to give him their last roster spot. The pitcher ended up fine and is doing well as a D1 pitcher. During the same tournament he over used another kid and the kid was never quite the same again. He never went on to play college ball. Funny thing was that he didn't like the kid who ended up D1 or his parents and he thought the world of the other one.

I've been wrong as a parent and I've been wrong as a coach and I'm willing to admit it. What scares me is a coach who almost invariably assumes the worst about parents and players. Sometimes it seems like this is a site for HS coaches to complain about parents. I'll agree we seem to have had more "bad coach" threads lately but there was a stretch there when we had quite a few of those "bad parent" threads.

Having said that, I tend to agree with the specific advice you gave out in this case.

quote:

This is just my opinion. But how many threads are we going to have about a player a parent and a psycho coach? Dam most coaches are a little nuts. Deal with it.

I agree Coach. My son dealt with a weird one his senior year. He had a college entrance exam on the day of a game against a rival division team. He told the coach a week ahead of time and offered to move the exam on an off day which means missing a practice. The only other open day was Sunday but no exams on Sunday and baseball was the other six. He came back to the coach again a day or two before the exam date and reminded him he'd miss the next practice but will be at the game.

Come gameday, for the first time all year he's on the bench. Not even as the DH. He sits 5 innings then he said the AC came up to him and asked him why he was a no-show for practice. My son apparently gave him a surprised look because when he explained to him that he was right there with the HC when he gave advance notice that he'll miss one practice to go take the tests. He said after that conversation with the AC, he was all of a sudden was inserted as a PH and came in for the remainder of the game.

Now I can't say for certain exactly what happened but it was more than coincidence. When I got to the game and saw he wasn't playing, I asked him if he got hurt and said no, I'm sitting out. He then explained the story and I just shook my head. I knew my son was right on the money but at the same time I certainly couldn't say anything since I wasn't there nor was it my place.

My son dealt with it and he just said "don't go crazy over it dad". It's coach's choice and if he wants to pull me in favor of the backup to send some message, that's his choice and his loss. "I'm not expecting any apology and it's done and over with"

Well, since he handled the situation and dealt with it, there was nothing more to talk about and move on.

To my son's credit, he was pretty mad about it but he never lost his cool, didn't take it on the field and was able to put it behind him very quickly.

While I know the coach was out of line and my son was responsible, covered his butt by communicating with his coaches, that was good enough for me even though I knew the coach was a chucklehead for his lack of communication and deserved to be ripped another ahole for being one himself.

I think you would agree coach my son handled this like a young man.

Coach May,

I agree with all that you said. You are correct that we don't have all of the facts and there is always 2 sides to a story, often the finding the truth somewhere in the middle. The only problem I have with the coach,if it is true, is calling out a player in front of everyone and using personal attacks. The kids teamates do not need to hear that the AC thinks that he is gutless. I think coach Mays approach of too hurt to pitch, to hurt to play, is perfect and would speak volumes about a soft player ( I am not calling this player soft as I don't have all of the facts)without having tosay a word. JMHO.

Kids roll with this stuff better than parents. Last year when the coach showed up my son in front of the team, the general concensus of the team was the coach was an @ss. My son still had the respect of his teammates. A few days later it was a non issue. At the time when I was told what happened I figured it would be best if I watched the game behind the outfield fence out of earshot of other people. It's better to be thought anti-social than be heard saying the wrong things out of anger.