(coaches) player errors and hitting, being fair.

The defensive remark wasn't aimed at you.  I was just saying to you, that Public Schools are complicated, cause they can't pay enough money to coaches to attract and retain high quality ones often. 

IMO, no school in CA. pays enough to coach HS baseball to retain great coaches.

The great coaches are being run out of HS baseball or leaving.  Stated differently, schools cannot pay enough money for the "work" HS coaches are forced to do....off the field.

You might be right about that.  I just assumed that the privates --which obviously invest a lot more in their facilities and are sometimes places that students want to go to because of the baseball program or whatever -- must pay the coaches better than the publics do.  Our coaches "salaries" are really laughable. And if you think about the kind of guys who are willing to take those jobs for so little,  it's not necessarily pretty.  Lots of guys with conflict of interests.  I'm not saying they are all bad, but too many guys get into too much trouble, because this.  An infamous one, for example, was Donny Kadokawa (was he an assistant at Menlo for awhile?) at Paly a few years ago -- maybe 3 or 4?   Came in and supposedly sat all the seniors in favor of his club players at the school.  Huge uproar. All over the local papers.   Don't know who was in the right. But I do know that paly went through like 4 coaches in 4 years before landing their current guy who seems like an upstanding enough guy, but also runs an elite club operation. 

How much would a school need to pay a HS coach to coach for 4-5 months of parents living through their son's baseball and all the other things which can happen with 14-18 year olds and their parents?

Most coach because they love the game.  Good HS coaches become disillusioned because of issues other than pay and the game.

I'm quit sure this stuff happens at times. After all we are talking HS coaches here. Don't care if they are public or private. But after my sons 4 years in high school I was so glad that I wouldn't have to hear half the parents bellyache about the coach, who was playing in front of their little Johnny or how dumb the coach was. You hear it all the time. I think in 4 years I can think of only one parent who maybe had a legit gripe. As I told my son along time ago, "don't complain about a situation do something about it. A complaint is a lot like an excuse. It makes you look weak and embarrasses those around you". Just my observations.

Well, no doubt it's a "political" job.  And you and I both know, since we live in the same general area, that parents around here aren't used to being told "no" and are used to being listened to when the speak.  So i hear 'ya and wouldn't deny what you are saying at all. That's one reason why the coaching situation in these parts can get ugly fast, unfortunately.  It's sort of a self-perpetuathing -  a negative feedback loop.  These are jobs that are demanding ,but in certain ways unrewarding,so they become less desirable.  But as they become less desirable, it's hard to find desirable people to fill them. Not sure what can be done to break the negative feedback loop.  But it is, I think, really real. 

Having parents realize and appreciate baseball in HS is a privilege which involves their son, his teammates and the coaching staff, and respecting and actually enjoying those boundaries might be a good start?  Having parents appreciate that discussion I quoted between a great HS coach and his pitcher on the mound  for what it is, and not being jealous or critical because it was not their son, or because their son was in the bullpen and didn't get brought in. Having parents get their heads our of their a$$ and not worrying about parents who are bragging about being D1 or being recruited or viewing the dream of playing in college rather than is what is right in front of them might all be good starts.

Most importantly, having parents realize how hard baseball is to play and coach and finding joy in the times of  success rather than impacting little Johnny for "life" when "failure" as part of the game is everyone but "Johnny's" fault might be nice.

Not denying your perspective Infielddad, but it seems to me a little like  a chicken and egg sort of problem.  I think if the coaches were mainly guys of outstanding credentials and accomplishment, the parents  would tend to trust them.   If the parents tended to trust them and not meddle,  more guys with serious credentials and accomplishment would be willing.   I can definitely think of a number of long term coaches in the area who seem to command a lot of respect from all concerned.   I can also think of a number  of guys who have been a year or two here or there and out  --  with everybody glad to see them go.   In some of these cases, it was the players who rose up en masse and demanded basically that coach be fired.   In some cases, it was the parents on behalf of the players who did it.   I'm not sure, and I don't want to put thoughts in your brain, but your view seems to be that the parents should err on the side of trusting the coach (and maybe trusting that if things need to be dealt with the AD and/or Principal will deal).  Is that fair?   But sometimes it's the parents who force the attention and hand of the administrators.   But maybe you're just saying those are the extreme situations.  Maybe you'd agree that in those extreme situations, it's alright for parents and/or players to  take action?  But then, I guess, the question would be how do you know if the situation is an extreme one, or if you are just projecting your own unhappiness unto the situation.   (I think that's the kind of thing that gets parents talking to other parents -- at least some other parents.)  Anyway, it's definitely a job I wouldn't want to have myself. 

Over twenty-one seasons of high school sports with two kids the only parents who whined about the coaches being unfair were parents of marginal players. What they didn't realize is a couple of players were close in talent and the coach like the other player over their's. If you want to be sure everything is fair, don't be marginal.

When my daughter was a freshman softball player she was assigned to the JV team at the beginning of the year. She wasn't happy about it. I told her the player chosen over her is a senior and will always get first shot if there's any choice. I told her she could piss and moan or get off to a strong start and be ready when the call comes. After four games she was starting on varsity.

Life happens. I was passed over for a job out of college because the company only hired women and minorities due to a pending discrimination lawsuit. I was once passed over for a promotion that was given to a woman sleeping with the guy making the recommendation. There are two choices, 1) whine and sulk or 2) stay ready mentally and physically to take advantage of the next opportunity.

Wow, you ques

Didn't even question his knowledge.  Just asked him an honest question. 

infielddad,

+1 

This is the best post I've read on this topic... 

Every person that comes out gets the same amount of reps in the preseason in the program I work at. The issue is we only had 23 kids for a JV and V program, with a lot of the JV kids being our bench players. So once the season started if there was a V game and no JV game that day we pretty much took the JV starting 9 with us on varsity. What was left were the JV bench players for practice. Their practices would end up being cut short or just be running foul poles because the kids that were left at practice didn't really want to work at being better. Both team practice together on off days with the varsity guys getting about 75% of the reps in situational drills. It doesn't matter how many chances you get to impress, because sometimes in life you only get one, you have to make the most out of any chance you are given.

I can only speak from a varsity coach's perspective here... I do know who I trust in certain situations and I know who I can count on to strike out as soon as 2 strikes are on them. I see the kids work every day and I know who is actually out there busting their ass and who is out there putting more effort into making it look like they are working hard than actually working hard. I've actually had a kid pour water under his arms and on his head to make it look like he was sweating...

I don't coach a summer team. I don't do private lessons. If I did, I wouldn't allow any of my high school players to play for me (unless they had to by residence rules) or use me for private lessons. I will, however, give them a list of instructors and teams in the area that they can then go and look at themselves. If they want to do extra work with me, come on up. I'm not going to charge them if we are working at the school. If they want to pay for an off site cage then I will work with them there.

The best way to get noticed by a coach is to out work everyone else. Be at every off season work out. Be the first person on the field. Be the last one off the field. Don't make the coach tell you to find something to do, do it on your own. Hustle, hustle, hustle. Dead sprint between drill stations. Dead sprint on and off the field. Dead sprint to first on walks. Sprint off the field after you K. I look for kids that show a passion for the game. The kids that look like they actually want to be out there every day.

I'll tell you a story from this season. We had a kid on the JV team's mother email the athletic director asking why her son wasn't playing. The first thing is that she violated program wide rules when she emailed the AD before her son came and talked to the coaching staff first. Secondly the reason why the kid wasn't playing is that he, an infielder, would actively avoid the baseball when it was hit to him in practice. He would move out of the way and stab his glove at the ball when I would hit him fungos. No matter how much work I put in with him on proper positioning he would immediately return to his old way of "fielding". So we attempted to try him in the outfield. He would misread balls by 15'-20' on a consistent basis. Balls that he did catch would be hit right at him and pretty much fall into his glove. At the plate, his swing was on one plane every time. He would never take his bat to the ball and the only time contact would be made is if the ball hit the bat. This kid had the look of being out there because his parents were making him be out there. 

So we had to let the AD know, so he could tell the kid's mother, that the reason why that this kid wasn't playing was because we, as a staff, felt like is was a safety issue to put him on the field in a game situation. We would be happy to work more with her

son if he requested it. We also reminded her that her son needed to come speak with us about any playing time concerns that he had first and she was more than welcome to sit in on that meeting. That meeting never happened. The kid never came to any of the coaches to ask for more help and that has sealed his fate as someone who will never help the program. 

I think that a great idea for HS parents is to not worry about what others are doing but try to focus just on what your son is or is not doing.

JMO

I really respect this Coach.   Wish this was more true around here.   I actually think  this is a big ethical problem and is a source of lots of discontentment, backbiting, rumors, unpleasantness, etc.  Won't say who is to blame.  But I have long advocated that tightening these rules would morally improve  the situation.  The CIF  has some restrictions on this sort of thing, but they are not nearly strong enough. 

In terms of quality of bench players vs starters our situation is rather different from yours.  Our coaches  cut something like 40+ frosh, a few returning sophomores,  and even a couple of juniors who played  JV last year this year after try-outs.   None of the kids who actually make the team is baseball incompetent.  Almost all are year-round baseball players -- the  20% that are not are multi-sport athletes.  All take private lessons,  play for travel teams, have strength and conditioning coaches, etc.   So you won't find any kids in our program that are just there to be there.  Those kids get cut or don't even try out, since the level of competition is widely known. Now we're  a public school and only have two teams -- Varsity and JV.  Many of the privates and a few of the publics in our area have three teams.  Frosh, JV,  Varsity.   TONS of kids try out, but many, many are cut.  I know a top public program just north of us that cut 70 frosh this year.   We're family friends with a kid from a top private,  real stud, 2014,  committed to a major D1  in the pac 12,  playing behind two other D1 commits,  rated 9 by PG,  who got almost no playing time this year.    Things are very competitive in these parts.  There are many very good baseball players here.  And at the real baseball schools the drop off from starters to bench players is not some huge gulf.

I don't doubt that this is another thing that can contribute to parent disenchantment.  Their kid trains and plays all year round, works really hard in season and out,  plays for another coach -- maybe even a better coach -- who loves him and the HS coach thinks  whatever he thinks.   Maybe the kid trains with the same hitting instructor the kid ahead of him on the HS team trains with.  (happens a lot -- 3/4 of our team, trains with the same hitting coach, for example, and he has many, many clients from all the top teams around here, and pro-guys who work out with him as well).   Maybe the hitting instructor tells kid a -- why is your idiot coach sitting you behind kid b.  (that happens too).  Maybe the two players even play on the same travel team -- that happens too -- and the pecking order is reversed on the travel team.  

So you can imagine,  it's hard for HS  coach to tell a parent whose getting alternative feedback like that things they don't want to hear or don't believe or whatever.  (again trying to be neutral and just describe the complexities of playing in this area). 

First, infielddad has some great post in this thread. 

I keep a letter posted on my file cabinet that I read just about once a month.  As most of you know, I got out of coaching baseball to watch my daughter play in high school.  When the softball team was home or away, the baseball team was just the opposite.  So, I would not have had the chance to ever watch her play.  I miss coaching baseball a lot.  However, when I open that letter, it starts to remind me of what I don't miss about coaching.  The letter states that I was playing a "favorite" over the letter writer's kid and because of who the parents were.  Here is the thing, we were approaching regional play,  the letter writer's child had pulled a muscle and so, I gave the other player a chance, he got on fire at the plate for a short while and so, I thought that the team gained in two ways.  The starter was resting that injury and would be more apt to be ready for the regional and the kid that was hot was helping us win.  The letter arrived 6 days into this process.  That starting player sat a grand total of 5 games that week including the game where he started but pulled the muscle.  Five total games and the parents complained even though I explained all of this to their son.  They went to the AD and Principal as well.  Unbelievable!

Per who plays, I never cared who the parents were.  I never talked to the parents after the parent meeting.  I played the ones that I thought gave me the best chance to win.  No matter what a HS coach does, they are always going to be accused of politics etc. 

This is a good question, with a better answer. There are some players who might not be getting the job done, but they have the ability to do it at any given moment (at the plate). Fielding might be another issue, but there, even the best players can have a bad game. For those who hit well enough, fielding capability is a side issue. Put them where they do the least harm. Other players, no matter how many chances, have clear limits to what they can produce. It is pretty easy as a coach to figure this out pretty quickly. The arguments come when two players are relatively equal. These are the situations where coaches will make a change more quickly. But the bottom line in my experiences is that coaches want to win. They play the players who give them the best chance to do that. The complaining mostly comes from parents who just do not get it and blame the coach. At times, the coach might be making the wrong decision, but that is usually not the cast (at least in my experience).

Originally Posted by bbm4life:

I would like some understanding as to why some players can have errors and multiple but get to stay in the game while some will get pulled from a game and not to get to play again for several games? I don't see the fairness in that at all. Also, how is it that when batting one can ground out several times and not get to hit again for a while but the same thing can happen to others at bat but will stay in the lineup? I have seen this in the past with other teams and now currently in High School and I'm just wanting know the logic and or why this happens? Input please!

The answer is: there is no answer that will cover everything! IOW, what you’re talking about is something very subjective, with the only person getting a say-so is the guy making up the lineup.

Billy wildly, it is a bit unreal to hear that a SS has 27 errors in 50 chances.  Just doesn't sound right.

But if the team is 12-2, as you posted, what exactly is the coach doing wrong?  The team is winning.

jemaz,

I don’t mean this in a mean way because you certainly aren’t the only person doing it, but your last post was nothing more than a bunch of standard clichés, myths, and rationalizations. bbm4life’s question was indeed a good one, and one that can be heard in many different forms during the course of any HS team’s season.

But as I noted earlier, the answer is so subjective, there’s no “one size fits all” answer. The problem comes from coaches either not explaining their “system” in a way parents can understand it, the coach or the parents not even trying to communicate, or parents not being able to understand what they’re being told.

Of course coaches want to win, but that doesn’t mean they have the ability to play the players who give them the best chance to do that. For sure they might believe they’re the best players for the job, but that’s not the same as them actually being the best players for the job.

In my brief time here, it seems to me that there are at least two distinct subcultures on this board -- one subculture shows great deference to and respect for HS coaches, the other, smaller one,  has less deference and respect.   Advocates  of the one subculture voice dissatisfaction from time to time about one thing or the other.  Advocates of the other culture tend to dismiss or ignore or preach against or outright attack the voicing of dissatisfaction. Neither subculture seems really to fully acknowledge and accept the other's point of view.    Mostly the two subcultures seem to  talk past each other, rather than  engaging  in real  dialogue or try to achieve mutual understanding. 

Well,  JH.  No doubt about it, you can always try to get better at baseball.  Hard, hard game to master.   And no 14-18 yo HS kid can say they've got no room to improve.  Guess one question is what is a HS coach's main job?  To develop (all) of his players to the maximum extent possible.  Or to win as many games as possible.  I would guess most think of their job at least when we are talking Varsity as winning.   But that can mean -- though I am not sure it has to mean -- that developing players who are going to contribute less in the coach's mind to wining games  (whether the coach is right or wrong)  takes a back seat to development.  Which means a kid who wants to get better may have to not depend much on his coach to help make him better.  Our coach, for example, once the season started, hardly worked with the non-starters.  They would shag while the starters took bp on the field, get less time in the cages than the starters,  get far fewer reps on team defensive drills than the starters.   The emphasis was clearly on getting the starters ready to win games, rather than helping the non-starters develop.  That was his choice. Others might do it differently.  

I believe a coach's job is to win. I also believe a coach that helps develop players will most likely have a better chance to win than a coach that doesn't help players. 

When I was a freshman in high school I played on the JV basketball team. My high school's basketball program was very good, seeing many players move on to play in college and our school's name featured in many of the national rankings throughout my life at the school. That JV basketball team alone saw 7 players move on to play collegiately, with one garnering First Team All-America honors at the Division I level and another playing in the pros after a very good college career. I was a scrawny, fringy-athletic little kid that had OK court vision and a decent jump shot. I might not have been the last player on the depth chart, but I was pretty close to it.

About three weeks into our preseason practices, I was fouled putting up a layup and my body landed awkwardly sideways. I felt an odd pull in my left knee and some pain and swelling afterward. An x-ray revealed a slight fracture of my kneecap, and a requirement to be on crutches. I'd miss about the first half of the season before being able to play again. Obviously, this didn't bode well for my chances to get higher on the depth chart.

Every day I'd show up to practice on my crutches and stand by the ball basket, helping distribute them to my teammates. I'd stand on the sideline and study the play book with my coach and give my teammates water when they had a break from action. When they did conditioning that didn't impact their knees - an ab circuit or a medicine ball program - I'd join in.

When I was finally cleared to re-join the action, I was even further behind skills-wise than I had been when I was already near the back of the bench. And, given that the season was halfway done, Coach didn't have much time to help me catch up.

One day, I stayed after practice and worked with another teammate on rolling off a pick at the elbow and angling to catch and shoot a mid-range jumper. I knew that if I was going to enter a game at any point, it'd most likely be for the purpose of executing a set play, and I wanted to be prepared to take the shot if I was called upon. I rolled off probably 100 screens that day, and missed most of the shots I took. We'd alternate between responsibilities…he'd pass me the ball ten times and I'd shoot, and then we'd switch and I'd pass him the ball ten times and he'd shoot. My teammate and I then moved to the free throw line and proceeded to take 100 shots each before calling it quits. We'd compete to see who could make the most free throws, and the loser would have to take on the winner's responsibilities the next day (I was in charge of carrying the balls to practice, he was in charge of a water cooler).

My teammate and I would do this every day for about ten days. It took maybe a half hour after practice, and it was fun. With 3 games left in the season, my name was finally called to come off the bench. It was late in the 3rd quarter and we were down by 3 points. The first possession we had saw me simply catching and making a pass to the corner to another teammate. The second possession saw us setting up for the play we called "Kansas"…and had me rolling off the screen for a set shot. I calmly set up, pivoted, and bounced off my teammate's shoulder. I caught the pass from the point guard, set my feet, and shot the ball. It went in.

I didn't play another minute that game, or the rest of the season. My stat line read "1 Att., 1 Shot, 2 Points" for the year. The next winter, I quit basketball in favor of baseball, which was very obviously what I was better at.

I didn't really care that I played 3 total minutes of a JV basketball season when I was 14 years old. I cared that I came back from an injury and worked my way into a game and contributed in a positive manner. My coach was happy, my teammates were happy, and I was happy.

Everyone has different goals and expectations for themselves, but there's no excuse to avoid putting time and effort into doing something. Basketball was a hobby of mine - far from a passion or something I was even good at. But why would I not want to succeed? I succeeded. I'm still happy about making that shot.

My son's baseball coach made enough obvious coaching mistakes for parents to pick on. Some of the parents thrived on it. Two or three parents who thought their kids were getting screwed out of playing time (they weren't) lived to bitch about it at games. I stayed away from these people. I only asked one question ... The team wins. Why are you dwelling on the negative? 

This horrible coach followed a coach who had seventeen losing seasons in twenty years before getting fired. After two losing seasons of clearing the dead wood the team came in second then won two conference titles. These were my son's three years of varsity. The coach has now won three titles in seven years. Yet there some parents who did nothing but complain about the coach for three years.

What the coach brought to a shabby program was organization and discipline. The players brought the talent. With winning some players went to the high school instead of heading for private schools to play. Despite all the negatives, two positives made this coach and the program successful.

This is coming from a dad had his son fingered by the coach to the newspaper for not producing at the beginning of the season coming off major surgery. I muttered a few things to myself. But I kept my mouth shut 1) because it was the right thing to do and 2) my son blew off the comments to the paper. I could have dragged my son down emotionally. I stayed away from the issue. Once he was healthy he finished strong and made all conference again. 

I think if you dug a bit deeper you would find two common aspects among the majority of those who you consider to be in the first group... 

1.  There is always acknowledgement that there are bad coaches.

2.  There is a consistent message to the second group to place more emphasis somewhere that can be helpful to the player and allow for a more enjoyable experience for both the player and parent, regardless of the coaching situation (or any other negative aspect present in the environment).

Many of us are here primarily to help others navigate the path of life with baseball in the most enjoyable and productive manner possible, often offering up what we've learned, having already traveled some/many parts of that road.  Suggesting that a parent is in the right to continue focusing on criticizing and questioning coach's actions is certainly not one of the things that will help them in the process.

Can you pick the HS coach? Can you decide who is going to play and how much? Can you tell the coach how to run the program? What happens when you get the coach fired and the new guy doesn't run it like you think he should? Or your happy but now a whole new set of parents are upset? I don't care how good a HS coach is there are going to be some parents not happy. There are going to be people that question who he plays and how he runs the program. And I don't care how much he wins.

So the question is what are you going to do about it? And the more serious question is what is your son going to do about it? Coaches play the players they think give them the best chance to win. Some play kids that have parents that complain so much they just give in. Some play old friends kids because they don't want to cause issues. In other words you have HS coaches that are good bad and in between. Kind of like every other profession in the world.

So again the question is what are you going to do about it? Gripe and complain? Work to get the coach removed? Transfer to another school? Complain and gripe and hope somehow this gets him some playing time? Go on a quest to right these wrongs in HS sports? What is your son going to do about it? Prove the coach right or wrong?

I told players to prove me wrong. I also told players they better prove me right by having them in the line up. That happens every day in practice. Every time they get a chance in a game. Every off season when its time to continue to work to get better. There are HS coaches who are clowns who are loved by the HS parents. There son plays every game. They get beat down and the players never get better. But the parents are happy. There are outstanding HS coaches who have parents that hate them. Why? There son is not in the line up.

My oldest son got cut his Soph year in HS. I never said a word to him after he got cut. There was no need to. He knew why he got cut. I told him the night before I did it why. I told him he had two choices to make. Get better and work harder. Or sulk and blame me and continue to be a player that deserved to be cut. My youngest was very talented and worked very hard. I told him he better be way better than his competition or he would not see the field. That's the price for being the coaches son. People can say what they want to say but its not going to be true. Its obvious even to the clowns in the stands or you sit.

Your son has a choice to make. Work harder. Get better. Be so good that the coach will be humiliated for not playing you. Be so good in the summer that he will look stupid for not playing you in the spring. And even if that doesn't work it has no bearing on your desire to be as good as you can be. Your time will come now or later. Or you can be that guy. And prove the coach right. And spend your four yours of HS baseball miserable right along with your parents.

My first year as a HC I cut numerous Jrs and Srs. They didn't want to work hard. The younger players were just as good and worked harder. Culture change. Time to start winning and learning what it takes to win. You guys do realize the ones that do this thing right work for basically nothing? They spend countless hours doing it right and not getting paid for it. The hours at night on the phone with college coaches. The hours working on the field. The hours at camps and clinics learning more. The hours after practice working with players. The weekends when guys want more time. On and on it goes. Only to be told by some dad who has invested nothing in the program who is only concerned with his son how they don't know what they are doing. And as soon as their son is in the line up the world is just fine.

I asked a parent one time "OK as soon as you go up in the stands and tell the parent of the player you want me to replace your son with and why let me know." That's not my job to make out the line up coach. "OK so your telling me its my job?" "Then since we got that out of the way what are we talking about?"

There is nothing gained once you turn it negative. Nothing. There is tremendous growth and opportunity when you dig in and fight. When you determine your fate with hard work dedication and determination. When you become the best option and prove it. And sometimes that might not come to fruition at the level your at. But one day it will. The problem is many never reach this point. The negative virus sets in and they are left with "I could have, I should have, I would have." And "He could have, he would have, he should have." And the sad thing is that many times if only the parent would have took a different path the player would have as well.

If you know the stats of your sons competition in HS your that guy.

If you tear down your sons team mates don't be surprised if your son is that guy.

And this list goes on and on. Player focus on being the best player and team mate you can be. Parent assist your son in this goal. Otherwise come back to me after your sons HS career is over and tell me how much fun you had.

The most important thing you can give your son in this quest to be a player is the internal stuff. The ability to grind. The desire to grind. The "Stuff" that allows him to over come adversity and not just over come it but to feed off of it. To have that burning desire down inside of him. Because the real adversity will come. And he will feed off it. He will relish it. He will thrive in the environment. While others will wilt and run from it. This is an opportunity for growth and development that many times is turned into the reason for failure. Instead of the reason for his success.

I know many of you will scoff at this post. You have not been there yet. You simply wont understand. And if you continue to see every challenge as a negative instead of an opportunity you never will. I wont get personal with my own experiences. But I don't know much. But there is one thing I know a hell of a lot about. And this is one of those things. I will leave it at that but one day I suspect you will understand what I am talking about. Good luck to all of your boys.

I think we are typical of other school programs and, BTW, we are in the very competitive California Southern Section that you have referred to. 

Regarding your point about win vs. development - there is a balance.  If you wish to continue winning next year, you have to develop some of those players this year.  That said, your strongest group that will start must take the majority of the reps as a group to maximize their potential to win.  Think football or basketball.  Clearly, you have to run your starters together as a unit in order for the team to play it's best.  Also, we have a summer program where we play about twenty games.  Graduating seniors are gone and this gives those being groomed for next year a great chance to catch up on game reps.  Most coach staffs I know of run most practices with rotating groups where everyone gets plenty of IF/OF reps and swings.  It is also fairly common for players to ask for extra reps after practice.  Most coaches will gladly accommodate within reason when they can.

Regarding your other comments about coaches running clubs and conflict of interest.  Again, we have our kids from late November thru May for conditioning and then HS season.  Then we have them for another 4-6 weeks for a summer program.  We spend some of our time during those four "months off" dealing with uniform, equipment, field, scheduling and other admin issues.  This is practically a year-round full time job that most of us get paid nothing for.  Most coaches are baseball guys.  It's what they know, what they love and what they do.  I personally don't run clubs or do lessons with anyone remotely connected to our program but don't see how you can be so quick to criticize one who does.  For most, they have to make money somehow and that is what they know best.

Regarding coaches playing guys with lesser stats and seemingly not giving guys on bench a chance...

Remember, we have these players every day at practice for several months.  We have many of them for the additional twenty summer games.  We discuss players regularly as a staff.  Yes, we still make wrong decisions about players but, collectively, we just might have more insight regarding which players put the team in the best position to succeed than a rightfully biased parent who only sees the occasional game and gets most feedback from a rightfully biased child. 

Coach May, I wish I was able to hit the like button multiple times! Great post!

Here's a response to Coach May's post I've never been compelled to make on this board ......

SluggerDad, many of your posts on this site relate to your son playing in college, and many of those who have provided guidance on each of your college questions are also those you are suggesting show great respect and deference to the HS coach.  I personally think you are misreading the posts to come to the conclusion you have made.  What we are saying is what Coach May has so firmly and properly stated on one side and what Coach B25 has provided from the other perspective.

The point is the subculture voice of dissatisfaction does the parent, player and team very little good.  That subculture runs out good coaches, as Coach B25 pointed out, and as you pointed out with the Paly situation, and  runs out coaches no matter who they are and especially how good they are.  At the other end, as we discussed yesterday, that subculture drives away the potential to attract good new coaches.

But, one core issue is this:  what are you and your subculture going to do if your son does get on a college roster, as you clearly hope will happen, especially if he runs into the exact type of situation he did this year in competing for playing time? More importantly, what is your son going to do?

It is a pretty rare college player who does not run into a situation which challenges them, from a coaching perspective, especially when we include Summer Wood bat leagues. A parent can complain all they want to a college coach or a Summer Wood bat league coach/GM and it falls of deaf ears.  Your son has to learn how to navigate a baseball world where nearly all of  the next level of players are going to be better than any player he is competing with or against right now. The level of competition among 17-20 position players for 8-11 or so playing time spots is far more intense that what occurred with your son this Spring, when he, by your own words, let the pressure get to him.

College players don't have Mom and Dad to fend for them.  When players get to college, they have to be able to adjust to new coaches, a new level of intense competition, and they "must" compete under pressure,  battle through adversity and perform. They must get results or they sit.  In our experience, many college players fail because they cannot adjust and battle through adversity. They don't fail because they don't have the skills

. The failure comes on the mental side.

Mom and Dad can't fix it, travel team coaches can't fix it, the paid hitting guru can't fix it, the AD won't fix it, and the coaching staff won't fix it.

The only one who can "fix it" is the  player.  The player has "no" excuses. He is completely accountable.  He  has to have the tools and ability and mental toughness and tenacity to grind day by day, and I mean grind, in an environment which is completely new and foreign to him, where the support mechanism can seem like quicksand.  He is grinding to have an identity within a new social scene, with new academic demands, and a baseball load, all of which combine to be  physically and mentally exhausting at times.

I will end my thoughts on this thread by asking you one question: How is your
"voice of dissatisfaction" about HS coaches  empowering your son to succeed when he, hopefully, gets to the next level and encounters  situations involving most of the challenges I have mentioned above, or a very similar challenge which he experienced this past Spring as a HS junior?   

I don't think you and I really disagree about much -- though I think you sometime think we do.   Independently of my son's situation,  I really do try to be objective.  Plus I actually like dialogue that puts different and maybe competing points of view in contact.  I think the friction that comes from rubbing competing ideas and perspectives together is a good thing, not a bad thing -- at least if it is done with civility  and an attempt at mutual understanding, These last few comments in this thread, for example, are quite interesting to read,  whether I agree or disagree in total. 

I don't really have any  (well, not many) axes to grind here.   I try to see all sides and learn from as many people as possible.  You seem like a good guy.  I've got no beef with you.   I don't agree with absolutely everything you say.  But I don't disagree with absolutely everything you say either.    I hope you don't think that I do.    I can definitely see where people with a beef  are coming from at times.   I think I am willing to give greater hearing and credence to the beefs than you are.   I mean this a discussion board.  Seems like a good place to work through beefs to me.  Vive le difference, I say. 

Cabbage,  I really don't intend to question the integrity of all guys who both coach HS and  give lessons and/or run travel teams in one fell swoop.  That would certainly be unjust.   Plus I'm on the record as saying that  guys are not  paid nearly enough for the work they do -- especially by the public schools.  (but maybe not by the privates either, given some things that Infielddad said the other day). 

But you gotta admit the real potential  for both perceived and real conflicts of interest is there.   In our little coaching turmoil situation in the transition from our old regime to our new one, certain parents were throwing around accusations of pay for play.  The intertwining of HS, lessons, travel and all the money involved --  especially when you add to the mix a collection of parents who, for good or for ill, are used to throwing their weight around and being listened to -- can make for some pretty ugly scenes when things get contentious.  

Just think there needs to be some structures in place to safeguard against this.

Stats: All I am trying to say is that the coach clearly does not think her son is good enough.

Bingo!

Not sure I get why some folks just don't get this concept.

FWIW, although I seem to be pro coach, over the years son has had some coaches who were really good guys but not necessarily good at helping him get better.  And some who knew everything about the game inside and out, taught him a bunch but oh boy, maybe somewhat like that guy in the locker room who got recorded!  Those are the guys who have left a lifetime impression on him!

What I cant stand is the player or parent who complains that the coach is not "preparing" their son for HS, college, etc. 

Here's the thing, its YOUR job as the parent to help prepare your player for the next level. I am not referring to the parent being the instructor,   but doing what you have to do to help him get better at being a player. If that means you might have to spend some money for private instruction, than that is what you need to do!

Originally Posted by jemaz:

Originally Posted by Stats4Gnats:

jemaz,

By “her”, I assume you mean the original poster, and I’d go so far as to say it’s very likely the coach doesn’t think her son is good enough to be a starter at this time, but “clearly” is a bit of a stretch for me. For all I know, the kid gave one of the coaches some attitude or caused some kind of problem between players such as got into a fight or used someone’s equipment without asking. My point here is, there’s all kinds of reasons a coach may start or not start a player, and not nearly all of them have to do with performance.

To me the OP is just an average parent of a HS student athlete who doesn’t know all the ins and outs of the program, and is trying to put it in some context that can be dealt with. Something being fair or unfair is one of them .

One of the things I always thought gave me much more of an insight to the program and what was going on in it than most people, was having the time and ability to attend all practices and games, and being able to converse with the coach on a regular basis. But most people don’t get to do that.

What was absolutely the most eye-opening thing about it was how poorly the players, including my ding-a-ling son, communicated to the parents what they were being told to pass along to the parents by the coaches, and how poor the communication was in general. Some of it was that most kids that age don’t communicate very well, some was a fear that what they say might cause some kind of problem, and some was simply that some things were just assumed to be known and understood by the parents. That’s why I’ve always been one who believes the more communication from the coaches to the parents, the smoother the whole program runs.

That’s not a knock on either the parents, the coaches, or the players. Its just a fact that communication can always be better, and when it is, things more often than not seem to work much more smoothly. Sadly though, as anyone who’s ever been in any kind of serious relationship knows, communication is always a 2-way street, and its always hard work.

I think it is very irresponsible to expect HS coaches to develop talent, or give the same reps to non-starters......there just is not enough time in the short HS season.  My sons summer coach told every player right before their Freshman year of HS, "do not show up to baseball season looking for your HS coach, to work you in baseball shape, to get the baseball rust off, or work on your mechanics".  The truth is if you are lucky, you have staffing on summer teams that can develop players, but even then there are many club teams that don't have facilities or coaches to provide that.  It is every player's (parents) responsibility to show up to HS, summer, or showcase, in game ready form.  

Development many time happens with one on one instruction.  Just in our local boards you will find many posts with professionals that will teach MIF, OF. Catchers, pitchers, and hitting instruction....tons of options.  In a team setting of 15+ players on one field, with limited time allotted for practice, you can only get so much personal attention, and yes the starters will get more.  Show up game ready, and having spent 100's of hours of personal instruction, and that player will likely be a starter.  

I always tell Jr., make sure every time you take the field, you have the confidence knowing there is no one on that field that has prepared, or out worked you.  Just this "Holiday" weekend, he has passed up opportunities to do other things, and likely has logged 6-8 hours of working on his game.  

If  he was to shows up to his team and even after having the peace of mind that he put the work in, there are players in front of him that are better, then he'll have to reevaluate whether he worked hard enough, but he won't be wondering why his HS coach is not giving the same time as the starters.  I have rarely seen, outside of daddy ball, where a clearly better player was passed over for a marginal player.

There is no doubt that Jr., and others will give up experiences in HS that others not as committed to the next level, will have enjoyed.  The incredible specialization of sports has made it difficult, and with huge regret, these days you just can't have it all...it is certainly a sacrifice that I often wonder myself, if it is worth.  As long as Jr is driving the bus, I'll continue to support his efforts.  If he finds himself (and I'm sure he will, all do) behind someone on the depth chart, he will either find a way to work hard to get his spot back, or the game will have decided it has left him behind....it happens at some point for everyone.

Which is why,  Back foot,  I don't know why anybody calls these kids "soft" these days.  The most driven ones work their butts off to compete and be ready.