Coaching Profanity

quote:

Originally posted by PantherPride:
Sorry if this is an old subject... I am new to the forum and need help with this one..... My son plays High School Baseball, JV... but practices with the Varsity daily.... like most dads, I coached him up through his younger days. Using profanity was a big no no.... Anyway, this coach who is trying to rebuild the local High School team really goes overboard during the practices and Drops the F-Bomb worse than a sailor. I see that this is not really helping the young boys who are trying to play the game. Numerous parents are getting fed up with constant foul language, but the coach is unapproachable, and most parents fear that he will take it out more on the kids…. In the past, this coach has talked to the kids about his old lady not taking care of his needs at home….This coach last week called the team a bunch of lazy Mother F'rs.... then he had the nerve to tell the team not to go telling the parents… Hmmm… Lets keep a secret???? This is where I must draw the line. I would like some High School Coaches to respond to this post to know if this is an acceptable practice.... We have had a lot of talented kids give up the game because of the constant cussing... In my opinion the coach is out of line, and this behavior should stop. If not he should be let go.... The coach should be a role model to these kids. A few parents have sent anonymous letters to the School superintendent, but they can’t react to anonymous claims, so one parent stood up and put it on the line, and called the superintendent…. Bullying has been a huge topic as of late, something that they are teaching in grade school and up. Again, In my opinion this coach is bullying the boys. Thanks for any input you may have...

Well, politically, I can't tell what the consequences of inaction or action would be.

I will say that having your name identified on your post is not going to be a good thing.

Good Catch... updated... I think the name is gone. I appreciate the heads up.

Welcome to the site and look around because this is a great place. As to your question - I am a high school baseball coach and I will admit that I have used profanity before. I'm not going to try and justify the fact that I did it because there is no justification. Based on what you've said this guy is crossing a line. While it's not good to use profanity period I do beleive there is a difference between cussing and cussing the players. If he called them m'fers then he has totally went to far.

As for what you can do - if all the parents feel he's going to far then someone has to say something and there is strength in numbers. Approach the AD or principal to voice your concerns. Normally I would say go to the coach but if he's told the guys "to not tell your parents" then there's no point in going to him. He will either lie or not listen to you. Go above his head and talk to the people he answers to.

Another route is not going to be looked up on very favorably by most on here but I feel there's something to it. Tell your kid to ignore the profanity. Reason is at some point he's going to enter the real world and there's a good chance he will HAVE to interact with someone who cusses like this. At the end of the day they are still just words and he can learn a lesson out of it. Tell your son if he thinks it's embarassing how this guy talks / acts then he now has a blueprint of how NOT to act. This is also a way to help develop some mental toughness. If the coach gets onto him using profanity he needs to realize they are just words and he still needs to go out there and do his job. The time he needs to worry about things is when he's not in the lineup anymore. As guys move up the food chain from high school to college / MiLB to MLB there will be more guys who won't see language as an issue. If someone stops playing the game because they get cussed at then I highly doubt they were going to go much futher in the first place.

Getting yelled at stinks and getting yelled at while being cussed is even worse but it's not the end of the world. Use it as a teaching lesson and develop some mental toughness. Please understand I don't support what he's doing with the language.

Thank you coach. I appreciate the information. We have had that talk with our son. And for the most part, He is not being yelled at or cussed at as an individual, it is the team in general. Second year of playing for him, so he knows the drill, its the younger kids who are fist year in High School who are trying to adjust to the new teaching method, and those are parents who are bringing it up. Thanks again....

No problem and glad you're teaching your son to deal with this stuff. It will help him in the long run in all aspects of life.

But based on what you just posted it's also an area where he can learn to develop some leadership qualities. If it's the younger players who are new to this and trying to adjust he can help them with this. Tell him that when coach goes on a rant he can pull the young guys to the side and build them back up or make sure they heard the message being sent and not how it was said. He does this then he can help them learn how to be stronger mentally and they will look to him for guidance.

Need to goto the AD first? He is in charge for the coach, the principal is in charge of the AD. And the superintendent is in charge of the principal. You jumped way out. I would think anonymous letters to the AD would be addressed by him. There is always the local newspaper.

Thanks LAball. I have done nothing at this point... I came here first... looking for good info from people who may have been down this road before.... Someone, not sure who sent the letters to the Super, one Parent went verbal... i think the anonymous way was to avoid any flack coming back on the kids... Small town, everyone knows what you had for dinner...LOL... Thanks again....

Completely uncalled for. While I, too, can shamefully admit that I have let it slip, it's always been regretted and unintentional. I don't have a good mouth away from the kids and I can be overly competitive at times which isn't a good combination. So in general I'm not very tolerant of foul-mouthed coaches. To me it's a good way to lose the respect of the kids and your peers.

THAT BEING SAID...I gotta go with 2709 a say the best avenue is for your kid to try and take it in stride. It's a very real world lesson he can learn, and if he can block it out and play good baseball it will pass in time.

If you simply can't tolerate it (which I get, not saying you're a lesser parent if you speak up), talk to the coach face-to-face about your issues with it. If nothing changes try the AD, then sup, etc.

To me suggestions of anonymous letters and going to the news paper are cowardly at best. You want to teach your son to be a man, you need to lead by example.

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"Small town, everyone knows what you had for dinner"

So Panther Pride...how was your ham and cheese casserole you had for dinner last night? You must have really enjoyed the crumbled Cheez-Its® on top. Nice touch. Gotta' love that crunch!

Seriously, welcome to the HSBBW. You're plugged into a great source of help and friendship. Enjoy your stay and let others know about this wonderful site. It's a keeper...toolbar worthy!

Let me say that coach2709 (and soon to be AD also) is a top contributor here. His words are wise...and real. Swearing, unfortunately, is all to pervasive anymore. I remember the old days when swearing was reserved for times when...well...you needed to swear. If it's too prolific it loses it's punch and becomes meaningless.

The coach you are describing seems to swear constantly. His swearing has most likely lost its effectiveness. He punches well below his weight. There's nothing there but a shrieking ill-mannered man. The problem is he doesn't know it. He's a lazy coach who is relying on few tactics to motivate and energize his team. A good coach, like coach2709, may very well sprinkle in some profanity for emphasis, but will utilize other means to achieve the heavy lifting.

From season to season the teams will vary. Their character and makeup will be different and, in my opinion, a coach's approach should be different too. When it comes to coaching philosophy it's not uncommon to hear "It's my way or the highway!" A good coach may very well adopt that style, but an even better coach would recognize that although last year's squad drove his way in a decked out and muddied up F 250® with FWD, this year's team is driving a blinding Cadillac STS® featuring 'Ultrasonic Rear Park Assist' and perhaps, because they're not similar, a slightly different approach should be used. It's no use asking this year's squad to drive up to the last high-tension tower on the right-of-way to enjoy the view. Last year's group was well suited to do that, but this year's ride is best for showing off for the girls in the Hardee's® lot. Both great views, but quite different.

And always keep in mind that you, as parents and taxpayers, are in control. You've done the right thing in coming here to learn. Parents, just like teams, are not a monolith. They're a conglomerate of ideas and opinions. You will serve all of them well by introducing them to this site so they can start rooting around and start digging. If they're patient they will learn much and come to understand the ways of baseball. What is acceptable and what is not.

I'll say it again, I think the coach you're describing is just lazy. And that's too bad.



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PP,

quote:

Anyway, this coach who is trying to rebuild the local High School team really goes overboard during the practices and Drops the F-Bomb worse than a sailor.

When was the last time you hung around any sailors? This isn't the day of cruising around in old wooden ships and swilling rum like a bunch of heathen pirates! If you aren't at a Christian school then you can always enroll at one and I wouldn't go writing the paper or doing anonymous letters to anyone unless you have an approved coach waiting in the wings. This is another prime example of the wussification of America. Just my two cents.

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"This is another prime example of the wussification of America."

I totally understand your point Hunter and with some of the team members perhaps that may be true. I don't think it is true of Panther Pride's son. They have come here to sort it all out. I think Panther Pride will come to learn that swearing is part of the game.

But like coach2709 notes, swearing should be used sparingly, for emphasis...for a punch every once in a while. Lazy coaches, in my opinion, use it way too often thereby rendering it ineffective and at that point offensive.

I had a customer once who would swear constantly while just conversing normally. His entire crew heard these words all of the time. I always wondered what he said, or did, when he got angry and swearing would be expected? Recite nursery rhymes to get attention? I still wonder.



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I am a firm believer that use of profanity typically reflects a poor education and upbringing. There are plenty of great coaches who motivated their players with constructive words of wisdom, rather than profanity laced tirades.

My son was raised in this baseball enviorment;

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...6002781/m/9007094816

Many of those kids have gone on to success in HS, college, and the pros without being exposed to ignorant coaches.
Anyone can let something slip when they are upset, but those who use cursing regularly, especially around kids have their own shortcomings.

Coaches are role models. It always bothers me when they regularly display behaviors - that if emulated by their players would get the players suspended from school.

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That is a very good point YesReally!



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I think it's #@!^&^% horrible how some coaches and parents curse around these little #%&*&%#$#$s. Who wants a #@$#%^$ 9th grader hearing that #$## everyday.
If I ever heard son's #@##@ing coach talk like that I'd go up to the m##@%%^er and kick the #@~@ out of him. &#$$ that!!

But really..some cursing is ok on the high school baseball field. But a school teacher talking like what has been described is overboard.

If you think the language is bad in HS, just wait till he gets to college.....

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Yup...$@%&*+^ overboard!

"My! Did you hear what teach just said?"... ..."@&$% yeah!"

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Augie Garrido

This a link with Augie saying a couple of profane words. I do not let our players use such language for multiple reasons (if for no other reason than little kids at all our games and practices). Using it that much with hs kids is uncalled for, but I promise you it is nothing compared to what he hears everyday walking the halls of almost any hs.

About the annon. letter....most ADs I have been around do not give much credit to anyone that will not put their name to what they are saying.

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Wow! I always thought that burnt 'T' stood for Texas...not tantrum!



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quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
If you think the language is bad in HS, just wait till he gets to college.....

Depends on the coach at the college level, too.

At my son's school, the bat boys are the young sons of coaches. When I suggested that the presence of such small boys in the dugout probably helps the coaches remember not to cuss, my son said, "Nawww, it doesn't really matter. The coaches hardly ever cuss anyway."

If you think about it, much of a coach's day-to-day job is leadership, instruction, communication, and motivation. Profanity seldom helps accomplish any of those responsibilities. Many top coaches refrain from the kind of venting and lashing out and other counter-productive behavior that just doesn't help win games.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
If you think about it, much of a coach's day-to-day job is leadership, instruction, communication, and motivation. Profanity seldom helps accomplish any of those responsibilities.

Very well said.

quote:

Originally posted by HunterMac95:
PP,
When was the last time you hung around any sailors?

HunterMac95,
Were you trying to sound like Peter Graves in "Airplane" when he asked the little boy if he'd ever been in a Turkish prison?

Seriously, though, I agree with you that anonymous communication is definitely a bad idea.



PantherPride,

Welcome to the site!

If the situation is bad enough that you need to step forward, you should step forward openly, going FIRST to the coach, then to his superiors one level at a time only after making a sincere effort to resolve the problem at the lowest level. Also, go as an individual speaking for yourself, not as a committee or a spokesperson for a committee.

Saying that the coach is not approachable does not relieve you of your obligation to give him a chance to correct the problem himself. Everyone deserves that courtesy. If I were the athletic director and a parent came to me with a problem about a coach's communication style, my first question would be, "What have you done to resolve this with the coach?" If I were the coach and a parent went to my boss without going to me first, I would resent it.

However, before you ask the coach for a meeting, you should write down the specific examples that concern you and ask yourself how much first-hand information you really have about those particular incidents. If it turns out that most of your concerns are either generalizations or vague recollections or situations you heard about second hand, you should probably just keep quiet and observe the situation more carefully for a while longer.

Best wishes.

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Excellent advice Swampboy!



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This guy is a 30 second taping of a rant on a cell phone from losing not only his coaching job but maybe his teaching job too if he's a teacher in the school.

I've said this before, if it won't fly in the 2nd period history class it doesn't fly on the fields and courts after school either.

Any history teacher that repeatedly says somehting like "How many times to I have to tell you dumb Mother f'ers that Independance day is July 4, 1776?" loses their job. My position is same for coach.

College and professional ball is different becasue the players and coaches are adults...mostly.

I don't think my son has ever had a practice or game in HS that didn't involve cussing. Now if you really want to hear some f bombs, play football. Those guys do nothing but drop f bombs all day, every day. No children by the side lines, please.

Yup, I'm on the "role model" side of this one. I too, try to be realistic about what the kids hear and say on a daily basis and particularly in the typical dugout setting. I have certainly been in my share of dirty-mouth dugouts over the years. I just think that, as a coach of HS age kids, it is a responsibility to help guide them to awareness of their language and the resulting perception of others.

If any of the boys drop the F-bomb in casual conversation within our practice time, he or the team runs. If it is a "lesser" offense, I usually throw out a quick alternative (shout out "shoot" for "sh%t", "darn" for "da$n", etc.) By mid-season, they are, at least, thinking a bit more about what they say and when and they are having fun correcting the coaches' occasional slips.
We will sometimes let an emotional outburst slide, just with a reminder... "language!"
Not perfect, but IMO, realistic and the boys seem to respond favorably.

As for OP, that is a tough one. I also subscribe to the school that the boys have to learn to deal with the fact that every coach, boss, teacher, parent, friend, etc. will have something about them that they don't like or agree with. They need to learn how to get past that and focus on the positive aspects of the relationships. Is he otherwise doing a good job at rebuilding the program? Perhaps a unified group letter by the parents to the AD that is signed by all, stating that you really appreciate what the coach is doing with the team but can you ask him to tone the language down a bit. This will put things on record while minimizing the likelihood of a strong negative knee-jerk reaction by the coach. I would think that, if this is left to continue, there will be a bigger blowup at some point down the road. This ain't the 60's or 70's no more. Can you say "youtube"?

While I agree with Swampboy's direct approach, I know that this can be tough when weighing what it may do to your son's playing time or how a weaker-character coach may otherwise take this out on your son.

I wish all of my son's coaches had been model citizens, but it isn't that big of deal to me if he curses. I'd prefer he didn't, but I wouldn't raise the issue up the food chain.

My son knows what I expect of his behavior, and if the coach acts differently, that doesn't get my son off of the hook.

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"Yew toob. How's that?"

Good advice you've given Capitata fatherus.



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"My son knows what I expect of his behavior, and if the coach acts differently, that doesn't get my son off of the hook."

Excellent too twotex!

"Whoa! Coach sure let one loose there!"......"He'll hear it when he gets home!"

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It actually seems to me that swearing is more accepted now than it was years ago. Certain words are used a lot in normal conversation that would have been considered a no-no years ago.

That said, to me, nothing makes a player or coach look worse than screaming out profanity when something goes wrong.

Something to think about...

When someone uses profanity there will be people who don't like it. They will likely form a bad opinion about you.

Those that do not use profanity will not upset anyone including the people who use profanity.

You don't need profanity to make a point or show emotion.

I've been known to use profanity at times. Don't know why... It's one of those something to lose, nothing to gain things. In other words it's stupid, and that's my excuse. I'm stupid!

Just because something such as swearing has become more common it does not mean it is more acceptable and we should just ignore it.

I tell my son multiple times a day DONT SWEAR in my house. He apologizes, understands my aversion to it and doesn't do it for a while. I tell his friends swearing in my home not to swear. If adults just ignore this behavior like 90% do, our society will just further deteriorate.

Now do I swear, you bet. But as an adult who was taught 35 years ago as a teenager swearing was inappropriate it doesn't just slip out as part of my routine vocabulary. I use it to create emphasis and get attention. Today, it's just go to terminology.

I DO NOT want a foul mouthed adult as a role model for my teenager. Do I expect zero swearing, that's not realistic but I do expect the adults in charge to model decent behavior and I would gather numbers and complain. I would not do it alone though.

We play for a club coach in his 40's who makes kids shave, not wear flip flops and run for swearing, the entire team. It's a great place to spend all our time surrounded by a group of kids being trained to be adults I would enjoy spending time with.

calisportsfan,

I understand all of that, other than the flip flops.

We had a very bad game and I was upset. I made sure that nobody was around as I read the riot act. In 25 years I did it 3 times so it was something I rarely did but I was really upset. I did not say the f bomb but I said they were a bunch of &&^%$$#$. There was a complaint by a parent. How he found out is obvious. so maybe I was right for at least 1 kid? I have to say that if I had done the same thing when I first started it would have been no problem From what is described in this day and age when you can't say anything remotely out of line to student or a player that this over the top behavior occurs.

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"I use it to create emphasis and get attention."

Kinda' like this!

"What the heck was that!?"......"That? Oh, that's just a valve releasing the pressure from the cylinder before the piston starts back down. That's all."

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Listen all you sissy mother *&#@*#@, Next time you post it better be a good F*&#@N post. Use your F*&@#N tiny brains and make a decent post you thoughtless bast#@#S. I don’t want to read boring sh*t all day. Post you F@#*&rs.

Just thought I would see if that would inspire anyone.

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======================================================!

"I couldn't make heads or tails outta' what gotwood just let loose!"......"That's a blue streak. Just cover your ears next time."

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Wow, I am overwhelmed by all of the replies..... It make me feel good to know that we are not alone with our feelings that this coach is wrong with his tactics.... I had a lot of hits on this post and my fingers will fall off If I reply to each and every one of them... So I will try to sum them all up... Got wood... when did you move in to my town.. the crunch is good on ham and cheese casserole, thanks for the great input and confirming coach2709... Huntermac... without going into details that might sign my name to this post.... "When was the last time you hung around any sailors?" Not that long ago. Westpac 1993. Had a blast . Served my county proud. I was one of those cussing sailors... dropped the F-bomb once over dinner with the wife's family and never knew that I said it... Slip of the tongue, yes we have all done it... but I am sorry 14-16 year old boys should not be called Mother F'rs on a ball field and the coach should not be telling them about his home life... He is not drinking buddies with these kids... he should be a role model...... Wussification? No I call it kids learning at a young age that wrong is wrong, bullying is bullying, and we as parents will support our kids when they feel that something is wrong... It is not the yelling that gets them going... It is the name calling... Look up Bullying in your kids school hand book, and see what is classified as bullying... You would be surprised. Bullying is not justified in school, so it should not be allowed on the field... The F-bombs are having the opposite result he wanting... Small town, church going families out here in the sticks.... We try to teach our kids right from wrong so that we do not have to visit them in jail when they are older......Sorry hunter, your reply rubbed me in the wrong way. Yes swearing is part of the game, 9th and 10 grade baseball not so much, college and pros I am sure that it gets worse... We are dealing with the now, to build the future. slip of the lip fine, every other word out of his mouth... again wrong.... coach2709 "swearing should be used sparingly, for emphasis...for a punch every once in a while" Vector... Thank you for this..."Many of those kids have gone on to success in HS, college, and the pros without being exposed to ignorant coaches. Anyone can let something slip when they are upset, but those who use cursing regularly, especially around kids have their own shortcomings... Looking at the players from this town, a few will go on and play college at the local small town colleges. Most of these kids play the game for the love of the game.... My son is one of them... I see no pro's as of right now... Yes Really, Your reply is true... they are spending ISS. and suspension after school near you as we type...Fillsfan... Did I serve in the Navy with you? The sad thing about this coach is that he is not a teacher... he was hired to coach and gets paid..... College player who did not go Pro and he came back home to a city near you....
Really guys, I appreciate this outstanding support during our situation. Great information... I will get more parents involved in the web site and will continue to teach my son and his friends how to be courteous young men while off the field, hoping they will carry it into the dug out.

Thanks

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Hey, what can I say? Real Cheese Matters!™. I didn't move into your town, just a guess that your family, like so many others, are being creative with all of their left-over Easter ham. And my sister-in-law is a big cheese with Cheez-It®. She's a Junior Assistant to the Vice President for Crumbled Cheez-It Post Holiday Applications-Dinner Fare for the Great Lakes Region...or something like that.

And confirming coach2709? That's easy. I know a guy, who knows a guy, who has a brother who knows the back way, so to speak, into the FBI vault in DC. For a case of Cheez-Its® I can get the scoop on just about anybody. Any one you're interested in?



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And they continue to roll in.... I can't even keep up. Thanks to all... if nothing else, this is a good reminder to the coaches out there who are coaching the 9-14 year teams WHAT NOT TO DO... some one is alway listening... Shortnquick... I am ready to do anything you say... any chance you were my drill instructor? I was in shock with your post till the end, and then I was LMAO....I am motivated to go outside and spray for Fleas and Ticks now.

Calipride... Moving from the Travel teams environment to HS is a culture shock... You spend 9 years coaching your own kids, or having a respectful parent do it. You create a new family and you really enjoy the time you spend with them... then it all gets torn up with a high school Coach who is a jerk... I hope the kids remember what we taught them.....

Again, I really like the web, and appreciate the input from all... Great place to learn and teach.