College Ball Change

PG, do you know if this is just for D1, or all NCAA?  How bout JUCO and NAIA?

My understanding was that it is a conference by conference decision.  Is that not the case?

Because of the aerodynamics, it is my understanding this ball will travel about 20 ft. farther on warning track balls...perhaps bringing the HR back into the game...without an increase in exit velocity from the bat, thus not reintroducing enhanced danger to the pitcher.

 

Good thing if all true.  I need to ask my colleague who has studied some of this stuff in a wind tunnel.

That is my understanding too.

I read similar things Regarding the extra 20' without the increase in exit velocity. I think it is fantastic, because the HR has decreased too much.

Evidently Washington State Univ. did an extensive study, and the ball does travel about 20-25 feet further on an "off-the-bat" exit speed of about 90mph or so.  I read somewhere that although, yes, the breaking ball is more difficult to get bite on, the flat-seamed ball has more two-seam fastball life.  Also, I wonder if the the flat seam ball loses less velocity between pitcher's release and the plate, I mean enough to give just a tad more giddyup on the fastball as it enters the catcher's glove?

 

I believe the rule would take effect for the 2015 season, and it would only apply to D1 post-season play, although the thoughts were that all conferences would adopt the ball for regular season play as no coaches would want to play with one type of ball during season, and switch during post season.

The college coaches need to vote in favor of wood bats only if they want college players to experience the MLB.  

Wood bats may be too expensive for the lower divisions. I am not sure that some DIII conferences would want the expense. They get a discount on Bats they use but they are not furnished for free.

 

I would love to see wood back in College.

If the player has to buy his own bat that might be incentive to learn how to swing properly and pick the right pitches to hit.  . 

 

BTW, my son has used the same wooden bat for 13U and 14U league play and practice.  Hasn't broken yet.  

Wood bats are going to break in college. Doesn't matter how hard you try to hit it off the sweet spot every time. College pitchers are pretty good at getting you to miss.

Back to the topic. I'm still not sure if all college levels will be switching to the low seam ball. I've searched the Internet and can't find any results of a college coaches vote. I'm thinking maybe PG has some insider information he can share with us.

I spoke to a college coach from a pretty good D1 Conference sometime ago, and he didn't think his conference would be in favor of the switch. We will see though. I hope they do switch to the flat seam ball For several reasons: pros use it, ball travels farther, etc.

This article has pretty good data on this issue:

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com...study-on-ball-seams/

I guess that means the little crafty pitchers better develop a fastball and a deceptive change, Because we all know what happens to a curve ball that don't break.

Told my son about the change - he's a pitcher.  He said "Good, they should use wood bats too."  He's commented before that he likes the flat-seam balls.  Used them at PG events.  In his profile, one of the things they said was "nasty 10-4 slider with very good late life."  Guess he does OK with the flat seam.

Haven't you heard?  Wood bats break.   

 

 

Haha!!  That's good for the pitcher though.

Really glad to hear this and not surprised, given the opinions I'd heard. College baseball needs the long ball to return (at least, to some extent), and this is a great way to head in that direction.

 

In my opinion, economics prevent colleges from using wood exclusively; but, it's less the "economics" involving the necessity of replacing wooden bats as it is the "economics" of marketing metal bats.

 

The bat manufacturers need someone young players admire to use and endorse their metal bats. The profit margins on metal bats are large relative to many other products they sell.

 

Since professional baseball uses only wood, they've effectively taken themselves out of the position of serving as an endorser of any of the manufacturers' metal bats. That leaves the college programs in position to fill the void left by the pros; something they are exceedingly happy to do.

 

As long as college athletic departments are (more than) okay with the prospect of receiving equipment and dollars in return for using and endorsing individual manufacturers' metal bats, any thought of using wood won't cross the minds of college athletic officials; much less get put to a vote.

 

Lowering the seams? No problem.

 

Going to wood? Unthinkable.

Information I got said over 80% of the college coaches that voted favored the flat seam ball. Probably true about the ball traveling farther.  Nothing scientific, but we have seen HS kids hitting with wood hit that flat seam ball an amazing distance. In fact Joey Gallo hit one of the longest HRs ever hit at Petco against a 94 mph fastball.  17 year old kid with wood hitting one farther than most anyone in a Big League park. 

 

Question for the physics guys.  Most HRs especially the real long ones require backspin for carry. So depending on the amount of spin would it increase or decrease the amount of carry between flat and high seam ball?

 

I really enjoy these type discussions.  Always learn something from those that understand the science behind things.

 

College baseball is a great game with or without using wood.  I just wish the same equipment was used at all the higher levels, like in other sports. Pitchers just love it when they throw a pitch that shatters a bat. So long as the shrapnel doesn't go in their direction.

uhhh he is not seeing plus 90 FB's in on the hands.....

PG regarding carry I believe it is a combination of backspin but also the lower seam ball has less drag (which is why curveballs may bite less) so it is likely a combination of issues.

 

PS: My son loved pitching in the PG events with the low seam balls. Some people speculate that it would be more of an advantage to the hitters but he felt he got more movement on his other pitches. 

 

I believe it will be positive overall. 

True.  But your point is.....?  

 

All the more reason for younger kids to swing wooden bats.  Lower speeds mean longer life of the bat.  Which is all irrelevant if the school coach is more worried about potential wins than development of the player.

 

If you want emulate the pro's you gotta hit like the pros!   

 

From collegebaseballinsider, New Mexico pitching coach Dan Spencer's take:

 

 

 

“Regarding the new baseball: Is a 10-8 game really better than a 4-3 game? Is a three-and-a-half-hour game better than a two-and-a-half-hour game? My answer would be no to both. 

 

 

 

"If we really are trying to be more like Major League Baseball, then change the ball and the bat. My feeling is that the truth behind new ball legislation is that there are coaches that do not like the parity that has been created in part by the bat we currently use. No longer is the best athlete or the strongest hitter a home run threat just because he is a great athlete and strong. Now a hitter has to have an aptitude to hit and be well-coached. Our game as it stands today does not reward hitters for hitting around the ball and lofting fly balls to the pull side. These routine fly balls are outs like they are supposed to be.

 

 

“Regarding the pitching: It is hard enough to get college pitchers to pitch to contact and yet we want to make it harder? Because the reality is the livelier the ball or bat is will have a direct impact on base-on-ball ratios. Are more walks going to make us more entertaining?

Yup. Lots of high school players I know have had high satisfaction with the performance and durability of Marucci wood bats

Son is in a JUCO wood bat league. Spent a beautiful afternoon watching a double header. Zero broken bats. Kids adjust and most use wood all summer anyway. I think people that think wood bats break too much need to have more faith in the kids abilities. Most use composites anyway and 4 of those will last a long time. Longer than most metal bats. 

My son pitched in a wood bat summer collegiate league. I saw 3 kids break their bats against him in 26 innings. Not sure how many others broke their bats over the summer, but it wasn't none. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see wood bats in college. It would cost some money though. Although, you could probably buy 3 or 4 wood bats for the price of one metal bat.

Composites have a one year warranty. They typically last much longer. You can buy 5 high end ones for the price of 3 metals. Cost is not an issue. It is my belief that composites are actually cheaper for a program Bat contracts for universities and coaches are the issue. Wood bat makers will never be able to pay off college coaches like the metal guys can. The coaches are bought and owned. They will never vote against their wallets.

lets all remember its not just the fastball on the hands that break a bat. Way to early on the end of the bat it will split faster then a New York minute. That includes composites too. I would love to see it but don't think it will happen yet. Although D2 Conference up north is all wood. I think its the Conference that Wilmington came out of. I could be wrong.

Anyone who thinks wood bats don't break are crazy.  My son, who is a damn good hitter, has broken several wood bats this year.  Just a couple of weeks ago, he broke a brand new wood bat.  I hate the whole wood bat thing. In my opinion, it is not necessary for 16 and under kids to use wood bats. It is just another money maker for manufacturers and tournament organizers.

rynoattack,

there is much more money and profit in the metal bats.  In fact, it is the money that is one of the reasons wood is not used.  

I would think you would be more likely to break a wood bat at higher levels such as varsity and college given the higher velocity of the ball. 

Originally Posted by baseballmania:

…I would think you would be more likely to break a wood bat at higher levels such as varsity and college given the higher velocity of the ball.

 

I would think the reason for broken bats is more often because the ball is hit too far away from the “sweet spot”, and it seems logical that would happen with lesser skilled hitters.

BB Junior loves the wood bat for two reasons. As a pitcher you can pitch inside and not worry about the handle base hit just over the infield as much.  As a large guy in wood leagues pitchers try to pitch inside rather than 3 inches off the plate outside like in HS, many young pitchers miss leaving it over the plate.  Theres nothing like the crack of the bat.

Or with higher skilled pitchers!!    If it was all about lesser skilled hitters, MLB players would never break a bat.  That happens ALL the time.

Agree with the reason for the bats breaking.  It definitely has more to do with where on the bat the ball is hit than the speed of the pitch.  Although the speed is a contributing factor.

Originally Posted by bballman:

…Agree with the reason for the bats breaking.  It definitely has more to do with where on the bat the ball is hit than the speed of the pitch.  Although the speed is a contributing factor.

 

I was thinking more of how much “movement” ML pitchers can get as compared to lower level pitchers, coupled with the lower swing velocities, but for sure a bat breaking will be due to some combination of where on the bat the ball is hit, plus the velocity of the ball, plus the velocity of the bat.

I did not know that.  However, my assertion is that parents do fork over more money because their kids need both wood and BBCOR bats..  During High School/Legion boys use the BBCOR Bats, and then during the late Summer/Fall, they "Need" would bats.  I think the wood bat usage is not necessary, but don't get me wrong; my son was seen at the WWBA in East Cobb, and he has ultimately committed as a 2015 because of that experience.  I just believe the wood bat requirement does allow bat manufactures to sell an additional product, and that Showcases have more opportunity to market events. Maybe I am wrong...

Not to speak for PG and some of the other showcase providers, but I believe part of the reason PG has the kids use wood bats is for 2 reasons.  One is because they have pro scouts that are looking at kids and want to see how they hit with wood.  Totally different than metal.  The other is even college coaches get a better idea of how kids can really hit by seeing them hit with wood.  If a kid can jack it with wood, they certainly will do much better than with metal.  I don't think PG or these other showcase providers are making much, if any money from the sale of wood bats.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it has a lot more to do with scouting than money making.

I understand the concept you mention, just don't feel it is as necessary as we are made to believe.  the BBCOR bats have changed things some.  I also don't think the showcases are making money on the bats, i think they have more events because of them. 

High School coach strongly suggested using wood in the cages and in the off season. He felt it helped the batters learn the sweet spot better.

Every thing is supply and demand. If there was no demand for wood bat tournaments and leagues they would not exist. People want to play in them. 

       

       

BBCOR bats have changed the game A LOT. HRs down by 1/2 after they were introduced in college. Runs down as well. It's well documented. Not sure what you mean by there being more events because of wood bats. I think the tournaments would be held whether the players used wood or metal.