College Fall Baseball - 2017

Plus 1

Understanding I didn't play in college, I think perspective is pretty important in time requirements of a student athlete.  When I went back to school at 24yrs old, I worked full time and was a full time student.  It wasn't that difficult.  Granted I was just an average student and only did what was necessary to get through.  Many students are in the same boat in regards to their time limitations. Not just student athletes.  Also, high school academics is more demanding on time compared to college.  One of the reasons I didn't succeed the first time in college is because of ALL the free time I had in college compared to high school.  Let's just say I wasn't productive with my free time =-)...  My son is on campus at 7:30a and gets home at 5:45p a majority of the year in HS.  That's over 10hrs a day on average not counting homework or workouts.  

I think a big piece is in HS everyone has a similar schedule.  In college, student athletes see all the "free" time non-student athletes have and might become a bit envious.  

Branson, do you know what the percentage of athletes is at your son's school?  At my 2017's it is 30%, which seems like a lot.  Though high academic, the school is highly invested in athletics, and I'm hoping and guessing that that, and the large number of athletes in attendance, will make the work burden seem a more normal and less odious.

About 30% as well. 

And it doesn't make the early a.m. lifts any easier!

I'll beg to differ on Real Green's high school academics being more time demanding than college.  Everyone is different and some take far less demanding majors or attend less demanding schools, but my guys have had a much harder time with the college academic workload.  

real green posted:

Understanding I didn't play in college, I think perspective is pretty important in time requirements of a student athlete.  When I went back to school at 24yrs old, I worked full time and was a full time student.  It wasn't that difficult.  Granted I was just an average student and only did what was necessary to get through.  Many students are in the same boat in regards to their time limitations. Not just student athletes.  Also, high school academics is more demanding on time compared to college.  One of the reasons I didn't succeed the first time in college is because of ALL the free time I had in college compared to high school.  Let's just say I wasn't productive with my free time =-)...  My son is on campus at 7:30a and gets home at 5:45p a majority of the year in HS.  That's over 10hrs a day on average not counting homework or workouts.  

There is a lot to this. I went back to school in my 30's and then law school. I worked full time and took 19 hours/semester and finished in 3 years with a 3.98 GPA (damned Roman History professor that wouldn't bump up my 89.4). This was with three kids (two of them very young) at home, as well. It was a lot easier than when I was a freshman in the 80's and had to deal with all the distractions of youth.

There definitely is a lot to it!  I went to night school myself.  Worked full time days.  Then did the 6pm - 9pm courses 4 nights per week for several years.

And I'll still say that playing college baseball at any level is like having a full time job on top of going to school full time.  It is a lot more demanding than playing high school ball IMHO. 

We'll feature this thread at the top of the forum until the end of the fall season.  Also, added 2017 to title.

Branson Baseball posted:

My youngest is heading back for his Soph college year on Saturday.  Coach just informed the team that mandatory weekday lifts are at 6:15am this semester.  My guy is venting...but I remind him that last year they were at 5:30am so at least he has a few more minutes sleep.  

Throw in those daily practices (Mondays are off!) and scrimmages and the "optional" conditioning days and "captain's practices", and you have a full time job. 

...

This is at a strong academic D3 with middle of the pack baseball. 

That's an eye-opener.  Is this kind of fall schedule typical at an academic D3?

I went to a UAA conference school 30+ years ago.  I didn't play sports in college, but had friends who did. Their schedules were pretty comparable to my kids' varsity HS schedules in 2017 (at a small HS).  Have things changed?  Are pre-meds and engineers at MIT, Johns Hopkins, etc. putting in these hours for sports?  (At such schools, I can't imagine coaches are discouraging players from picking demanding majors (?))

Chico Escuela posted:

Branson Baseball posted:

My youngest is heading back for his Soph college year on Saturday.  Coach just informed the team that mandatory weekday lifts are at 6:15am this semester.  My guy is venting...but I remind him that last year they were at 5:30am so at least he has a few more minutes sleep.  

Throw in those daily practices (Mondays are off!) and scrimmages and the "optional" conditioning days and "captain's practices", and you have a full time job. 

...

This is at a strong academic D3 with middle of the pack baseball. 

That's an eye-opener.  Is this kind of fall schedule typical at an academic D3?

I went to a UAA conference school 30+ years ago.  I didn't play sports in college, but had friends who did. Their schedules were pretty comparable to my kids' varsity HS schedules in 2017 (at a small HS).  Have things changed?  Are pre-meds and engineers at MIT, Johns Hopkins, etc. putting in these hours for sports?  (At such schools, I can't imagine coaches are discouraging players from picking demanding majors (?))

Check this out.  Tons of information.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/defa...k_jan2016_public.pdf

It covers all sports, but I pull out some interesting stats re D3 baseball in particular:

 Median weekly hours spent on athletic activities in season = 34  (as compared to 37 for D2 and 40 for D1).  

Median weekly hours spent on academic activities in season = 36   (compared to 34 for D2 and 34 for D1)

Bottom line: at all levels college baseball players are VERY BUSY people.  especially during the season, they are going flat out! 

Ah, but what about the off season.  Well look at this.

Percentage who say they spent just as much or more time off-season as in season:   64 for D3 baseball players as opposed to 81% for D2 players and 75% for D1 players.

Bottom line, all year long, for the most part, these kids are busting their chops -- working almost the equivalent of two full time jobs. 

The level of burn out should not be surprising. 

But here's another striking stat.   The number of players who would prefer to spend MORE time on their sport at Division 3 = 50% and the number who would prefer to spend less time is only like 10%  (for males) -- though the survey doesn't break this down by sport.  

SluggerDad, thanks--some great info at that link!

Two things jump out at me:  One that the numbers are self-reported. That makes me think they may be inflated--most folks think they work more than they really do. (Not that athletes aren't busy people, but I teach at a non-flagship state university that has D1 athletics. The hours of academic work per week figures in this study seem VERY high, and I have no reason to think athletes in major D1 sports are any more studious than other college kids on average.). I wonder if the study and athletics hours reported are a little high?  Those with children playing sports in college please chime in. 

Second, it's scary to see D1 baseball players saying they miss an average of over 2 classes per week in season. A full academic load would typically be 5 or 6 semester classes, each of which meets twice per week (maybe three times for some courses).  If we assume 12 classes per week, players are missing close to 20% of their classes. VERY few of my students who miss one in five class sessions earn good grades. 

Also interesting that such a high percentage think they have a chance to go pro. That optimism is good in that it supports the drive to improve, but it's sort of like believing 90% of people are above average. 

Chico Escuela posted:

...The hours of academic work per week figures in this study seem VERY high, and I have no reason to think athletes in major D1 sports are any more studious than other college kids on average.). I wonder if the study and athletics hours reported are a little high?  Those with children playing sports in college please chime in. 

Second, it's scary to see D1 baseball players saying they miss an average of over 2 classes per week in season. A full academic load would typically be 5 or 6 semester classes, each of which meets twice per week (maybe three times for some courses).  If we assume 12 classes per week, players are missing close to 20% of their classes. VERY few of my students who miss one in five class sessions earn good grades. 

Also interesting that such a high percentage think they have a chance to go pro. That optimism is good in that it supports the drive to improve, but it's sort of like believing 90% of people are above average. 

Chico, some comments on your observations...

I think the academic work figures include classes, labs and study time.  Full time college student is roughly five courses.  So, maybe add in a lab and it's pretty typical, I think, to have around 20 hrs of class/lab/project/field work time plus study time.  So 35ish is about right.

Missing 2 classes per week in season - keep in mind that they know in advance they will be missing these classes so the necessary arrangements can be made to get any work assignments, lecture notes, etc.  Student-athletes have the extra incentive to meet required GPA to stay eligible so most make sure they take care of business.

High percentage  think they have a chance to go pro - This can be a tricky one.  It takes a high level of confidence, among other things, to compete successfully at the college level.  So, if you are confident you can contribute at this level, you are likely to think you can contribute at the next level, even though the odds say you won't.

You mentioned in a previous post "Are pre-meds and engineers at MIT, Johns Hopkins, etc. putting in these hours for sports?  (At such schools, I can't imagine coaches are discouraging players from picking demanding majors (?))"  If your son is looking at one of these majors, be aware that this is a huge factor to weigh.  It is somewhere between difficult and impossible to play college baseball while taking these majors at most schools.  There are opportunities out there but they are much more difficult to identify and sometimes the quality of baseball suffers significantly.  See Cal Tech, although things are looking better recently.  

Just as a point of reference, here's a study finding college students study on average ~17 hours/week. The NCAA study may include class time, which would bump things to ~29 hours... So if the NCAA figures include class time, then they aren't far off.  But I would be surprised to find major-sport D1 athletes are generally putting in ~5 or 6 hours /week more than average hitting the books. 

http://college.usatoday.com/20...-a-week-is-the-norm/

Not trying to disparage anyone. I have a 2020 (and a 2018 girl soccer player) and am trying to get a realistic picture of what they should expect. As a professor, I may be jaded about student work habits, I admit....

Good points CDad. I posted before I saw your comments. 

I have had some track and golf D1 athletes in my classes. You are correct that they try to plan for missed time.  That's easier in some courses than in others. MIssing 2+ classes a week during baseball season would be a real burden even for a good student.... (And maybe there are your extra study hours--catching up on missed work.)

Anyhow, I know it's a grind. Sorry if I was splitting hairs by geeking out over the numbers. 

Chico, At MIT the baseball demands are not as great as stated here, but the academic demands...well, you know.  The coach does not determine what a player can study.

As for "the quality of baseball suffers significantly," I don't think kids go to Cal Tech thinking they are going to play powerhouse baseball.  They are looking for a different kind of powerhouse while continuing to play the game they love.

One thing "regular" students don't have to do is travel for away games and continue to meet the deadlines for academics. I will say that the tutoring options for athletes are incredible though.

We dropped our 2017 off a week ago, and today we had our first conversation with him since then. After warming my heart by saying that he had been to the gym already today and would soon be going to hit with some upperclassmen, he talked about all the things going on and people he had met already, and then he told us "I am so excited about being here, and I can't imagine being this happy anywhere else."

Hold on, gotta put these on....     

I hope he keeps feeling that way, most of the time at least, and that all the other HSBBW 2017's do as well.

That’s great JCG.  I have been hearing the same thing from my 2017 who we dropped off last weekend too.  I tell ya — wish I could be 19 all over again.  Best 4 years.  While the boys have been throwing and hitting the gym almost every days this past week, its about to get real as fall ball officially starts tomorrow.  Excited for him...

Doing my usual "due dilligence" following the players from our HS program...  about now, the first few early rosters start showing up.  One of "my guys" transferred from a West Coast D2 to an NAIA across the country.  Their first fall roster just got posted.  79 players...  all decked out in new team apparel in their individual photos.  Yup, reality time.  Let the competition commence.

Dropped our 2017 at his D3 college this past weekend, so far so good. started workouts, lifting, throwing. Loves his classes/profs, and dorm/friends. "Best week of my life, mom!" Hope it stays that way. Best wishes to all balancing academics with athletics! 

Great to hear these stories. These are going to be some your sons best and most memorable times. Many will meet friends they will have for the rest of their lives. Some will meet their life partners. Some will forge friendships with professors that they will keep in touch with and start to build there network for their life after college. For most many will look back fondly at the next four years for the rest of their life. 

I've seen a number of comments in this thread and others that majors like pre-med and engineering are difficult if not impossible for college athletes.  Has anyone's son had those majors and how did it go/is it going?  Any other insights from those who have had kids in college who played?  My son is thinking about a biology major (maybe pre-med). I don't know if that will stick, but any perspective on this would be helpful.

Midwest Mom posted:

I've seen a number of comments in this thread and others that majors like pre-med and engineering are difficult if not impossible for college athletes.  Has anyone's son had those majors and how did it go/is it going?  Any other insights from those who have had kids in college who played?  My son is thinking about a biology major (maybe pre-med). I don't know if that will stick, but any perspective on this would be helpful.

Midwest Mom - In short the answer is....yes, it is possible.  My son played at an Ivy (42 games per year) and studied engineering. This was a major reason he selected an Ivy because he wanted to study engineering and play college baseball.  This engineering/difficult major/baseball topic has been covered previously, and you can find details by searching other threads on HSBBWeb.   There are a handful of folks on this site that selected an ivy, Patriot or D3 engineering schools for these reasons as well, and there are others that took a different path.  I've had many conversations with them,   It is not easy, but it can be done.   For my son, this was the best path for him.

It was totally by accident that we figured out my son might be able to do this, and we got help from an unlikely source.   He was in a D1 HC's office listening to the coach's offer.  The HC asked who else had offered and who else he was interested in.....typcial HC line of questioning for this situation.   My son mentions some D1s, a couple Ivys and Patriot League schools.  The HC goes on an Ivy/Patriot League rant telling my son that "they only play 42 games, travel less, practice less and play league games only on the weekends...and it is cold up there".   Well, that was about all my son, wife and I needed to hear because we were all thinking the same thing by the time we got back to the car.....sounds exactly like what we are looking for an engineering major.  This became my son's focus from that point forward.

Good luck!

Good luck to everyone this fall. 

If you don't mind me asking, how big have the rosters been for the fall season? Are the fall roster sizes matching your expectations so far? 

I understand that it will vary by school but I'm curious as to whether you had some expectation going in and whether that lines up with what your player is facing?

At LSU, there are 36 kids on roster with 1 not counting against the number as he had TJ surgery at the end of season and will miss next spring. 

By the way, this is son's 3rd fall there and I cannot remember more than just a few cuts being made between fall an spring. 

My son is a 3rd year at an academic D3. and a biochem major/pre med and says that her are 5 or 6 guys looking at pre med, pre pharm etc. A friend has a son second year at another academic D3 in Pre med.  My son does 2 sports, indoor track and baseball, with both practices usually scheduled outside class/lab time. I Think that this is a school policy. Yes, the student athletes can go into demanding majors but one has to choose the right school where the coaches know the players are aspiring professionals ... just not for the MLB. 

Thanks much Fenway and 2Boy. Appreciate the perspective. 

MWmom, along the lines of the "there are schools out there", I was helping a player this past year who wanted to play and major in engineering.  While a very good student, his focus was actually more on the playing part than the schooling part so the schools we targeted weren't quite top tier academic but still had decent engineering programs that allowed for playing ball.  Let me know if that info may be helpful.  Also, son is currently coaching at such a school.

CHF_Mom:  "Best week of my life, mom!" Has to make you feel good, particularly just after dropping him off! 

Regarding STEM/baseball:

Like Fenway, my son did engineering and baseball in college. He was on the 25 man roster in a highly competitive nationally ranked DIII all 4 years and made it through with a lot of discipline. There were lots of Friday nights where he was studying when his friends were out, so it is tough, but he hung with a lot of similar kids which made it easier. The coach also paired up the academic kids to room with each other when travelling so it was easier on them. The coaching staff also arranged for team academic mentors and my son became one when he was a Jr/Sr to help Freshmen and Soph's. 

Unfortunately we found out late in the recruiting process that STEM and baseball at most D1's are mutually exclusive except for Ivy's and a handful of others. If you are serious about STEM do your research early.

Exciting times for all of the college players and best of luck to them this fall! 

Echo the best week of his life comment, or in my son's words: "I'm stoked to be here."  No specific baseball news, other than he's hanging out with the guys.  looks like 35 guys on the "roster" with Coach planning to take 25 on the spring trip.

JCG posted:

We dropped our 2017 off a week ago, and today we had our first conversation with him since then. After warming my heart by saying that he had been to the gym already today and would soon be going to hit with some upperclassmen, he talked about all the things going on and people he had met already, and then he told us "I am so excited about being here, and I can't imagine being this happy anywhere else."

Hold on, gotta put these on....     

I hope he keeps feeling that way, most of the time at least, and that all the other HSBBW 2017's do as well.

He will soon find out his teammates are now his brothers. There is no time for frats as his fraternity is now on the diamond. They will now be the most important people to him for the next 3-4 years.  Work hard, push yourself and your experiences will last a lifetime. 

Midwest Mom posted:

I've seen a number of comments in this thread and others that majors like pre-med and engineering are difficult if not impossible for college athletes.  Has anyone's son had those majors and how did it go/is it going?  Any other insights from those who have had kids in college who played?  My son is thinking about a biology major (maybe pre-med). I don't know if that will stick, but any perspective on this would be helpful.

Midwest Mom:

Son is a junior chemical engineering at a high academic D1. Declared major freshman year.  Specifically looked at Ivy and Patriot league conferences in his recruiting because they seemed to balance academics and athletics the best and make STEM possible. Most have labs on Monday, which is off day. Other conferences that recruited him had much more travel, especially during the week. Make-ups often throw a monkey wrench into things. Son took a course in summer freshman year and takes a higher credit total in fall compared to spring, which seems to help. Where he's missing out is on summer internships, due to summer ball commitments. Not easy path to do. Takes a certain individual. Helps to have teammates studying sciences as well. 

Thank you Cabbage, BOF and Ripken.  You guys are great.  BOF, love how your son's coach paired him with like academic kids.  Really interesting approach and shows a lot of caring for the student athlete.  Cabbage, I will PM you. 

chf_mom posted:

Dropped our 2017 at his D3 college this past weekend, so far so good. started workouts, lifting, throwing. Loves his classes/profs, and dorm/friends. "Best week of my life, mom!" Hope it stays that way. Best wishes to all balancing academics with athletics! 

Awesome to hear.  My son has also adjusted well. Loves his school, profs, coaches and the rest of the fresh teammates.  Had an opportunity to come home this past weekend but chose to stay in school due to heavy school workload.  Happy he made the right choice.

Best of luck to all.

fenwaysouth posted:

Midwest Mom posted:

I've seen a number of comments in this thread and others that majors like pre-med and engineering are difficult if not impossible for college athletes.  Has anyone's son had those majors and how did it go/is it going?  Any other insights from those who have had kids in college who played?  My son is thinking about a biology major (maybe pre-med). I don't know if that will stick, but any perspective on this would be helpful.

Midwest Mom - In short the answer is....yes, it is possible.  My son played at an Ivy (42 games per year) and studied engineering. This was a major reason he selected an Ivy because he wanted to study engineering and play college baseball.  This engineering/difficult major/baseball topic has been covered previously, and you can find details by searching other threads on HSBBWeb.   There are a handful of folks on this site that selected an ivy, Patriot or D3 engineering schools for these reasons as well, and there are others that took a different path.  I've had many conversations with them,   It is not easy, but it can be done.   For my son, this was the best path for him.

 

Can vouch for Patriot League. Several teammates were Pre-Med.  A handful more were STEM.  It is possible there.

Ryan is doing well at Purdue, and they brought in a lot of players.  I'm not sure this will always be the practice, but since they had a new coach last year, I'm certain they want to have some competition.

rynoattack posted:

Ryan is doing well at Purdue, and they brought in a lot of players.  I'm not sure this will always be the practice, but since they had a new coach last year, I'm certain they want to have some competition.

Great school. My Dad's alma mater. My Mom and Dad met on campus. 

Matt Gibbs, was a year ahead of my son. He was a preferred walk on 6 years ago? He always was happy with his choice.

PlayWithEffort posted:

Good luck to everyone this fall. 

If you don't mind me asking, how big have the rosters been for the fall season? Are the fall roster sizes matching your expectations so far? 

I understand that it will vary by school but I'm curious as to whether you had some expectation going in and whether that lines up with what your player is facing?

 

I saw that Arkansas, which was mentioned in another post, has 43 on their roster. Though 3 freshmen PO's are already listed as R/S