College pitching coaching

This thread seems to be going in circles. IMHO that is because it is very subjective. Whats good for one may not be good for the other?

Anyway, I had a couple of pro scouts tell me the best thing I could help my son do is find him a good PC. So my question to the scouts was; what makes a good PC?

Their answer was "good luck". I said luck should have nothing to do with it. But in the end I believe it does. You do your home work and look for many qualities that you believe will help your son. Like finding one that keeps kids from going under the knife was big on my list.

I guess what I am getting at is that you have to make YOUR list and go in search of the ONE that fits your list. Now I bet we can start putting together a list of attributes that someone could glean items they want to look for. I do believe luck is part of this formula.

There is a lot of luck involved but it is not with the coaches attributes. The luck is about having a good coach who understands the fundamentals and that remains with the school while your son attends for 4 years.
There are several things that are part of good mechanics. The NAPA (Tom House)guide lines are great. Even great mechanics won't keep your son from having arm surgery but it minimizes the risk.
A good PC monitors his pitching staff looking for a break down and signs of fatigue. I watch pitchers who start out throwing well and after a few innings you can see things going down hill. The other thing is that pitchers have trouble recognizing their own issues and need a PC that keeps him on target.

quote:

Originally posted by workinghard:
Ok then, exactly what is the role and/or responsibility of the pitching coach at the collegiate level.

The role of the college pcoach, IMO, should be that he knows each individual player and what he needs to improve to be successful at that particular level he will be playing. The icing on the cake would be one that looks farther beyond the college game and that also would be for each individual player as well. I know my son's coach prepared them the best he could according to each individuals strength. Remember, it also has to do with being a coachable player, to be willing to accept your faults and work on them as instructed. Can't tell you how many times son and his pc went at it because son just didn't want to listen, and he wasn't the only one, but the pcoach's philosophy was you listen to me, I'll make it happen, but you are going to go through lots of tough times for it to happen and most players don't like that. Most players don't like to see their ERA's fall when going through changes and that is why many coaches don't make many changes to players, going though changes can mean a loss or two. So it is not always a bed of roses and hugs and kisses at the end of the day. My son didn't like, in the beginning, being pushed to the limit, but that was how you learned. And I agree that it's important to have a coach who knows his pitchers well enough (and makes it his business) to watch for fatigue and know when to pull the player, and the HC should be in tune to that as well.
I know there has been a lot of going around in circles here but there have been good points made during that. One has to decide what is best for them, it you are looking only for max dollars then you have to take what comes with it, and that may not be the best bb experience, perhaps taking less and working with a better coach, better program may mean more to some than others. These are all personal decisions, but in the end it is the player and family that has to decide what is best, with no whining afterwards.
Many pitchers are not recruited directly by the pitching coach, but it is important that you make it your business to talk to that coach before a decision is made. Because my son had serious aspirations of going pro, that was very important and my husband made it his business to talk to each individual p coach to ask what they liked about son and what they would change and what they would leave alone, if they had to clue he advised son that may not be the right place for him IF this was important to son.
Another suggestion, watch the team ERA, a big indication the pcoach knows what he is doing. Check out innings awarded, there most likely will be 2-3 that have a heavier load, but not be so lopsided that the work load is not spread out.

Yes, it is true that coaches come and go, but that is the HC's responsibility to make sure the replacement is able to do the job for his particualr program, so that is where the HC's experience comes into the picture. If a program has a big turnover of assistant coaches, you might want to look into that further. The problem I see is that players make decisions based upon division, conference, etc. I certainly would hope that my player would prefer a D2,D3 with a good solid staff and program over a floundering D1. Or a smaller program with good stats, good win/loss percentages over a larger one that struggles.


JMO.

Good points TPM. Watching how the Pcoach works with each individual and his ability to deal with different styles, physical attributes of different pitchers, and how to get the most out of each person seems to be more hind sight and difficult to tell up front and is a tall order during the recruiting process. When you are on the outside looking in during the recruiting process this appears to equate to looking at the stats on the teams web page. How they spread the innings/work load and performance and depth of the pitchers.

You have to ask some questions like; what is your conditioning program? do you tailor it to each player or is it general program for all pitchers? how many medical red shirts have you had in your pitching staff and what are some of the medical procedures pitchers have had after being on your training program for a year or longer? These are difficult to ask but answers could be insightful as to how well the PC deals with his pitchers.

BHD, I think you are very lucky if you can put all this together during the recruiting process and land in a program that you get good consistent coaching over 3 or 4 years.

As to the initial question; what is the quality of college pitching coaches? IMO it is generally pretty good. I like the aspect of having a consistant program over the first three years after high school. As BHD points out, the coaches do change and sometimes more than once in a 3 to 4 year time period. As we were looking at different programs one SEC shcool chnaged the entire coaching staff when the program did not turn around quickly. The pitching coach was excellent and one of the reasons we were looking hard. But he went out the door with the head coach. Sometimes doing your homework still does not work.

Soooo, IMO you also need to look at the trainers. The guys that put the guys through the weight room and conditioning program.

You make good points about asking about training, that's why visits are important, make sure that you talk to the training staff as well. Chances are some of them have been around longer than the coaching staff.

FWIW, pcoach told us that most pitchers arrive with injuries from overuse in HS, not hurt in college. I beleive it.

TPM - That's fine if they tell you the truth.

The real truth is you don't know for sure until you get there. They tell you whatever you want to hear when they are recruiting you.

Then you get there .... and boom. Different story.

So I think the posters who said luck have it the most correct.

TT,
Do coaches just tell you what you want to hear or do recruits and their parents just listen to what they want to?
Never once did any coach recruiting son make any promises, I did find every coach to be up front and honest with son. Highly recruited out of HS, all told him he had to earn his playing time. Not sure if that was because we knew to ask the right questions or not and what to expect.

For sure I would say a lot coaches are honest and up front. They try to do a good job.

Unfortunately I have experienced the other side of this argument. I have seen poor coaching and have been sold a bill of goods.

I have however seen the good side and can only appreciate even more now, those who do the right thing.

My point is made. The truth. That's all you can hope for.

.
I'll take this a just a little out of the circle...This whole thread only reminds us about the complexity of trying to balance ALL the parts of the recruiting/decision process for most of us.

While some have a dream school opportunity and some have but a single major goal, for most of us this thing is incredibly complex: Division, geography, academics, tuition, baseball $, non baseball $, Head coach, pitching/hitting coach, housing, environment, player development, position opportunity, alumni opportunity, draft many of which you frankly are taking calculated guesses at. For most us us the finaly decision ended/ends up being a guess, a calculated guess, an incredibly complex guess, but a guess.

IMO, the most important part was that in the end it is the player who has to be at peace with the decision...coaches included. As a parent we might have made other choices but it is the player who has to LIVE the decision, and it is his passion and comittment that will get him through whatever tough times, the challenges that he will face...and every player will face tough times and challenges.

44
.

Totally agree. Our choice was based on our goals. My son is a very happy young man with a sore shoulder he can live with. I have always expressed my surprise with the turn over of players and coaches. This includes many of my friends son's experiences.
We actually had a heads up and that is why we placed location and scholarship at the top of our priorities. In the end my son got a great education at a bargain price and had the best 4 years of his life so far.
Given the high turnover of coaches even at great BB programs,there is an element of risk and guess work.

quote:

Originally posted by Goosegg:
On another thread, it was noted that Chris Handke, a D3 pitcher, was drafted. Chris was 6' 3" and 235 who threw app 10 innings in his draft year hitting between 85 - 88. He was pretty wild in college. After the collegiate season, and very quickly, he raised his velo to 93.

Why didn't he get that velo in college? Since most college players have at least a dream of continuing their baseball careers into pro ball, isnt the quality of pitching coach at least a consideration for a player in choosing a program? What is the quality of pitching coaches in college?

I didn't read every post, didn't want to waste my time I just scanned to see if anybody made the correction to Chris's height, he is 6'11 and he hit 93 once.