College Summer Leagues-The Times They Are a Changing

Appreciate the post.  The other item not mentioned is the amount of players who are choosing to train instead of playing in the Summer.  The quality in pitching seems to be way down across the leagues, even the Cape. 

Just to get his straight kids are taught to be eyes wide open, colleges recruit them at 14 and then cut them loose before they get to campus or cut them loose after a bad fall or ball season, coaches and the many experts on here tell everyone of us every day you better to be ready to play, nobody cares if you can't play, they will cut you loose in second if they deem someone is better or one of my favorites being that colleges don't have time to develop skills figure it out for yourself...but now the kids are supposed to bleed the colors of a summer team for 42 games because it is special? Good luck with that.

Baseball has been feasting on its own for years and the laws of supply and demand have made it ok, maybe just possibly the summer teams are on the front end of that changing and the kids are realizing that the organization can **** off as well as the player can be sent walking.

Baseball has brought this on themselves by treating players like crap for many years, suck it up summer ball I don't see it changing.

Hokieone,

One very bad, selfish and unappreciative person shouldn’t spoil an entire business.   The guys sounds like a self involved tool but that is not the big picture problem here. 

So, what is going on around the baseball ecosystem?   We could probably come up with at least 10 significant trends in college baseball that is effecting summer college baseball.   The college game is popular but other sports are growing quickly and are more popular.   Let’s face it, baseball is looked at as an old person sport.

Let’s start with the college draft.  Far fewer players drafted that may cause some changes in attitude.   The NCAA changed their stance on NIL and athlete marketing.   College athletes are competing for additional revenues.   The NCAA has introduced a transfer portal.   The Power 5 conferences are consolidating...fewer dollars available for those outside of the SEC, Big10 and ACC.    Even MiLB is consolidating.    All of these factors are economic at their core.   People are coin operated and behavior has been modified to chase fewer dollars.   It is not that shocking to me to see people get a case of the “me firsts” because that is what they’ve been economically conditioned to think.

JMO. 

I get it that this generation of players has a me over team attitude. And it frustrates a lot of us. IMO it’s a product of over-hype on social media. By scouting services, parents, keyboard warriors, and pretenders that build their brand off of unsuspecting kids. And I hate every bit of it.
  But I want to offer up a story that gives us hope. Earlier this year I was asked by a family friend to help a neighborhood HS senior (Ryan) get recruited. Ryan had just lost his father 90 days before I met him. His dad passed in the fall on senior night as Ryan played his last HS football game. I asked around about Ryan’s character and got nothing but glowing responses. I watched him play and recognized him as having more than enough talent to play college baseball. He had gone under-recruited b/c of bad advice and b/c he played for a bad travel org. After sizing up the situation I decided to help. I met with Ryan this morning, just before he left town to report to his JuCo campus. We talked about what he should expect when he gets there. As we parted company he handed me an envelope. This is what was inside:

@fenwaysouth posted:

  The college game is popular but other sports are growing quickly and are more popular.   Let’s face it, baseball is looked at as an old person sport.

Like pickleball! Also an old person's sport however.

@IAmThatGuy posted:

Like pickleball! Also an old person's sport however.

A swing and a miss.   I was thinking more of lacrosse.  But I love me some pickleball too!

Hokie and Adbono;

The Summer teams should develop a "List of Questions" for each player. Why, What, When, Where and How.

It would appear that the "selfish" players are NOT knowledgeable of the communication between the Pro Scouts, College Coaches and your teams. The player's baseball career maybe "harm" by his "behavior". The pro scout is an expert in gathering information [positive and negative].

Hokie, keep up your "good work". Continue to "fine tune" your organization.

Bob

@adbono posted:

I get it that this generation of players has a me over team attitude. And it frustrates a lot of us. IMO it’s a product of over-hype on social media. By scouting services, parents, keyboard warriors, and pretenders that build their brand off of unsuspecting kids. And I hate every bit of it.
  But I want to offer up a story that gives us hope. Earlier this year I was asked by a family friend to help a neighborhood HS senior (Ryan) get recruited. Ryan had just lost his father 90 days before I met him. His dad passed in the fall on senior night as Ryan played his last HS football game. I asked around about Ryan’s character and got nothing but glowing responses. I watched him play and recognized him as having more than enough talent to play college baseball. He had gone under-recruited b/c of bad advice and b/c he played for a bad travel org. After sizing up the situation I decided to help. I met with Ryan this morning, just before he left town to report to his JuCo campus. We talked about what he should expect when he gets there. As we parted company he handed me an envelope. This is what was inside:

Thanks for posting this, the thread  desperately needed balance.

@2022NYC posted:

Thanks for posting this, the thread  desperately needed balance.

Yeah, when is the last time you saw something like that from a HS kid?

My son did not like his first year of summer ball. Was in a basement with 5 other players, and had a coach that was basically trying to do what the OP described, get a name for himself to get a better college coaching job. As a pitcher, it didn't make a lot of sense for him to be there. But he did seem to enjoy participating in the community volunteer activities, and the camaraderie. But he really wanted to be home training. As a pitcher, I had to agree with him.

If we go back to the 40 vs. 4 year plan, summer ball doesn't help the 40 year plan at least for the majority of pitchers IMO.

Flip side of this. I mentioned in another thread that a kid on my son (2022) incoming class de-committed and signed a pro contract. He was able to do that because he played summer ball and was seen by scouts.

I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that college kids can't stand their summer leagues. It's not a knock on the guys who run them either, but it's hard to convince a kid to care about a bunch of strangers who also don't want to be there. Broke college kids, let me add that in. You take a bunch of college kids with no money, have them live with strangers and have them compete in a league where maybe 4 kids get drafted in any given year and they're supposed to care/get excited to go the park everyday?

It gets old after a while. At school they're working and struggling next to the same people everyday working towards a common goal. With summer ball they're having their summer, their only time off, taken from them - playing in wildly different atmosphere with stakes not nearly as great as what they're accustomed to. It's hard to get up for those games. The only silver lining is they may get drafted but there are only a handful of leagues that produce multiple draft picks every season.

Don't forget, they're also living in a world where social media exists. They can see what their friends are up to 24/7. You think they want to be sitting on a 6 hour bus ride when a few girls from  campus are having a party at the lake house? Ask a player if he'd rather win a summer league championship or spend his entire summer at the lake, making money, doing whatever and see what they say.

I have two in leagues. One in a decent league, the other in a local league. From going to games, talking to players, and sitting behind the dugout and getting the mic'd up version. 95% of those kids do not want to be there, and sometimes the coaching staff. There are college baseball social media pages where you see the summer ball experience from the players side. There is a theme.

Regardless, that is no excuse for any of them to be rude or ungrateful. That is pretty unfortunate.

Fortunately there are a surplus of talented players for the vacant roster position. My 1st question to a player, Why? Second question What can I learn about baseball, about life.

Bob

As a parent I kinda wish there was no summer ball.  As a rising senior, son should be in an internship, preparing for his next stage.  Instead he pitched his 10 inning limit (communicated with coach prior to the season), training and working a PT summer job…setting him back for his next 40 years, IMO

He’s enjoyed his summer teams, and it’s cool when he competes against his summer teammates in the spring.  A few smiles on the bump then a hug at the completion of the series.

I think the seasons are too long, it’s a bit much that some are still playing, and the vast majority don’t need to be prepared for the MiLB grind.  55 spring games starting in February,  40+ in summer, then fall competition into Oct/Nov.  Way too much, especially for pitchers.

@adbono posted:

Yeah, when is the last time you saw something like that from a HS kid?

I hope a lot more than we realize.  There are a lot of very humble, well mannered kids out there, they just get pushed aside by the ones that aren't.  I know my son isn't in high school anymore, but as a 20-year old he took it upon himself to go buy a thank-you card for his host family and write them a personal note thanking them for their hospitality.  The next morning I found a brand new pen wrapper with a pen missing.  I asked him where it came from and he said he had to buy a pen to write the thank-you note.    

Mom01;

your communication triggered a memory of my first host family in South Dakota. They told me the story of their son and Pearl Harbor in 1941.
Later I visited his grave and we visited again in LA with many memories.

Summer Baseball has the opportunity many experiences.
Bob

From what I've seen watching two years of summer games, I think that many players are enjoying it, at least if they're playing well.  I have been surprised by how many players have left before the end of the season, and by the fact that the teams (in good D1 and D1/juco leagues) have been scrabbling for rising college freshmen by the end of the season.

My son has loved his summer league experiences - his ideal life, having nothing to do but learn about and play baseball every day.  However, he did leave early this summer, because he had more innings than expected in the college season, and his arm was done.  I would hope that summer league teams don't blame the players for "me" attitudes when injuries or physical overuse happens.  I would also think that they should expect it and manage for it.

I agree with old_school that maybe the "me" attitude is not all that surprising in some cases - I doubt players in the portal are having particularly good feelings about team loyalty.

@PABaseball posted:

I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that college kids can't stand their summer leagues. It's not a knock on the guys who run them either, but it's hard to convince a kid to care about a bunch of strangers who also don't want to be there. Broke college kids, let me add that in. You take a bunch of college kids with no money, have them live with strangers and have them compete in a league where maybe 4 kids get drafted in any given year and they're supposed to care/get excited to go the park everyday?

It gets old after a while. At school they're working and struggling next to the same people everyday working towards a common goal. With summer ball they're having their summer, their only time off, taken from them - playing in wildly different atmosphere with stakes not nearly as great as what they're accustomed to. It's hard to get up for those games. The only silver lining is they may get drafted but there are only a handful of leagues that produce multiple draft picks every season.

Don't forget, they're also living in a world where social media exists. They can see what their friends are up to 24/7. You think they want to be sitting on a 6 hour bus ride when a few girls from  campus are having a party at the lake house? Ask a player if he'd rather win a summer league championship or spend his entire summer at the lake, making money, doing whatever and see what they say.

I have two in leagues. One in a decent league, the other in a local league. From going to games, talking to players, and sitting behind the dugout and getting the mic'd up version. 95% of those kids do not want to be there, and sometimes the coaching staff. There are college baseball social media pages where you see the summer ball experience from the players side. There is a theme.

Regardless, that is no excuse for any of them to be rude or ungrateful. That is pretty unfortunate.

I have NO experience here. But, I have heard from kids who have heard from others playing in the summer leagues that they hate it. Living with host families is either uncomfortable or down right a nightmare. Pitchers arms are tired. Catchers legs are tired. The schedule is a grind. It's hot. The fields and facilities are lacking. Again, this is all second hand via not trustworthy sources. But I have heard it more than once and repeatedly through the years.

@Consultant posted:

Fortunately there are a surplus of talented players for the vacant roster position. My 1st question to a player, Why? Second question What can I learn about baseball, about life.

Bob

Right now there may be a surplus, at least there was one not long ago. Based on Hokies comments from his long experience and relationship to other leagues the surplus is going down a quickly assuming it is still there.

"2 Teams couldn't complete the playoffs from running out players, pitchers or both"

This doesn't indicate surplus of anything to me.

As far as the Why question a few of you have asked...I think the truth is because there are not choices. How many programs line it up, make it mandatory and the kid has virtually no ability to say no. Give the wrong response and your college career is over, show up and go thru the motions you still have life.

Chasing summer ball for the pipe dream of being couple year MiLB player and the appeasement of a coach is short term thinking and negative EV...IMO and it seems that kids are figuring it out before the coaches, parents and management.

The times are changing and baseball better figure it out or they are going to have bigger problems.