Colonial District Predictions

quote:

Originally posted by El gato:
Prep Ballfan and PIS,
Don't get me wrong. I posted something a year or so ago that "we forget the ultimate goal, record outs and win games" and commented upon "mound demeanor, location, changing speeds, fielding ability, holding running", but velocity seems to top the other factors. I do not agree with it, but am not going to ignore it.

Understand and agree with you-- but I am pointing out that many posts , here and others, talk about a kid's velocity (same probably can be said for 60-yard speed for everyday players and infielder's arm speed, etc.) and it is overstated. And from the thread here, some of the participants seem to think it is fathers or even kids themselves putting it out there.

I am more interested in how kids are doing, who had a good outing, where are kids going to school and even peoples opinion of what teams will be good (so I know what games to go watch!).

My comments in this thread began when discussing Colonial District teams this year, I said I thought Godwin would be good but their pitchers do not throw "mid to upper 80's".

Prep Ballfan, I think the player in question topped out at 86 according to perfect game and threw between 80 and 85 on a regular basis.

quote:

Originally posted by El gato:
Prep Ballfan, I think the player in question topped out at 86 according to perfect game and threw between 80 and 85 on a regular basis.

That sounds more like it

The other, often unspoken, element of pitching is accuracy. Granted a good pitching coach can get a fireballer's mechanics, arm slot and release point(s)tuned to get the ball down in the strike zone and off the plate where they want it. Some of the kids I've seen who "top out" at ____ mph look like Ricky Vaughn before glasses. One I saw last summer walked 3 straight then gave up a grand slam when he groved a BP fastball to the 9 hole hitter. But that radar gun had him upper 80's on the 3 BBs.

I know this is a great point for debate on these boards, but I (being the old f*** that I am)like the kid who can locate and materially change speeds better than the fireballer. More guys prolonged their pitching career by doing exactly that, esp the ones who remained starters throughout their careers. Pitching to contact and getting ground ball outs in 2-3 pitches also keeps pitch counts down, for the coaches that actually keep track of that silly number.

OK guys go ahead and get me !

We've had all these discussions on this board before, and then some -- though I realize some of you are relative newbies here.

A few quick summaries of what I've said many times before:

1. Scouts (like PG) like MPH because to the ability to teach it is limited. A guy who can throw 95 is not ready for MLB but he has a chance to learn the other facets of pitching. A guy who spots his 82 mph fastball has no chance of being an MLB pitcher. The result is that MPH is king when you evaluate kids as far as their pro futures.

2. Many kids can and do have a lot of success at the HS level without much MPH. More power to 'em.

3. Parents often get upset when they see a hard-throwing kid (who may have difficulty with command from time to time, as that is quite common in hard-throwing kids) get more attention than their son, who throws not so hard but who is getting shutout innings right now. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Carping on kids who throw hard, or pretending MPH isn't important, is often little more than sour grapes from those who don't have MPH.

4. The MPH you need to be a pro prospect is more than you need to be a D-1 prospect, which is more than you need to be a D-3 prospect, which is more than you need to be considered a hard thrower at the HS level. So, you can be topping out at 85 and still be a hard thrower at the high school level. 85 makes you a D-3 prospect, a D-1 long shot, and undrafted as far as the pros go.

5. Never confuse peak velocities with typical velocities. Hultzen probably did hit 92 once or twice when you saw him, but he cruised 89-91. I've seen players who have thrown 98, and that's what everyone likes to buzz about, but the typical fastball is 93-94, and some fastballs (especially 2-seamers) might be 90-91. But even at 90-91, that kid's going to be faster than the kid who peaked at 91 once. That kid's typical speed is going to be 86-87, and he may even throw some 83's up there in any given outing. It's all relative, just make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Don't compare one kid's peak velocity to another's cruising speed.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
We've had all these discussions on this board before, and then some -- though I realize some of you are relative newbies here.

A few quick summaries of what I've said many times before:

1. Scouts (like PG) like MPH because to the ability to teach it is limited. A guy who can throw 95 is not ready for MLB but he has a chance to learn the other facets of pitching. A guy who spots his 82 mph fastball has no chance of being an MLB pitcher. The result is that MPH is king when you evaluate kids as far as their pro futures.

2. Many kids can and do have a lot of success at the HS level without much MPH. More power to 'em.

3. Parents often get upset when they see a hard-throwing kid (who may have difficulty with command from time to time, as that is quite common in hard-throwing kids) get more attention than their son, who throws not so hard but who is getting shutout innings right now. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Carping on kids who throw hard, or pretending MPH isn't important, is often little more than sour grapes from those who don't have MPH.

4. The MPH you need to be a pro prospect is more than you need to be a D-1 prospect, which is more than you need to be a D-3 prospect, which is more than you need to be considered a hard thrower at the HS level. So, you can be topping out at 85 and still be a hard thrower at the high school level. 85 makes you a D-3 prospect, a D-1 long shot, and undrafted as far as the pros go.

5. Never confuse peak velocities with typical velocities. Hultzen probably did hit 92 once or twice when you saw him, but he cruised 89-91. I've seen players who have thrown 98, and that's what everyone likes to buzz about, but the typical fastball is 93-94, and some fastballs (especially 2-seamers) might be 90-91. But even at 90-91, that kid's going to be faster than the kid who peaked at 91 once. That kid's typical speed is going to be 86-87, and he may even throw some 83's up there in any given outing. It's all relative, just make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Don't compare one kid's peak velocity to another's cruising speed.

All good info Midlo, but my point has been all along that people overstate these stats.

Midlo Dad & PIS are making some really good points about pitching and also about ignoring some of the comments. Their messages and several others are always very professional and valuable.

I haven't been out on this thread in a while but when I glanced through it to catch up there are a few interesting comments, one in particular, about what I am assuming are the parents talking up there kids. If this really is the case, I guess I've been fortunate to have had mostly good parents over the years. I know this doesn't always happen and we always have to be careful with the parents about what we say.

I don't know about the other guys messages who are supporting players, because I can only speak for my former players, but, I feel comfortable that the parents of the players I have mentioned in my messages are clear of any perceived wrong doing that has been asserted. Although I do not consider myself friends with any of them and not sure if they even read this message board, these are the types of parents that don't typically talk up there kids, but ones that recognize strengths & weaknesses.

From my perspective, I don't really care what the parents say if they really are doing this, because facts are facts, it just doesn't bother me. It may also be a case where former coaches comments are being confused with parents comments? There seems to be so many different new people chiming in and out now that it gets confusing. I think this message board stuff should be all about fun and learning, not so serious and angry.

I am curious to see how some of the others like Midlo Dad & PIS feel about coaches saying good things about there own players. I think as long as it's factual and positive, it is good to support them, regardless of what others may think.

I have coached many of these kids and am supporting them as many coaches support there players and want to see them reach there potential. That's why personally, I will say good things about players sometimes. I actually would like to keep messages related to baseball strategies and mechanics, and not about the players, but so many times we are drawn into it and then everyone starts chiming in.

Thanks for letting me give you my 2-cents worth.

MidloDad said....

quote:

4. The MPH you need to be a pro prospect is more than you need to be a D-1 prospect, which is more than you need to be a D-3 prospect, which is more than you need to be considered a hard thrower at the HS level. So, you can be topping out at 85 and still be a hard thrower at the high school level. 85 makes you a D-3 prospect, a D-1 long shot, and undrafted as far as the pros go.

It is about velocity IF your son is considering playing beyond HS. Velocity is what the college scouts are focused on right or wrong. College pitching coaches will then teach your son the finer points of pitching every day. I've had this discussion with Midlo before and he is absolutely right. I'm seeing this dynamic from a different & new perspective (son is a college freshmen pitcher).

I bought that load of **** that college scouts were looking for "pitchability" when my son was being recruited. I thought pitchability was getting batters out and being smart about your pitches. From my new perspective, pitchability (to a college pitching coach) is throwing hard, learning new pitching and training techniques, and working hard to build your body to compete for starting pitcher spot on a college team.


Prep Ballfan said:

quote:

All good info Midlo, but my point has been all along that people overstate these stats.

I call it the Daddy discount. Take 3-5mph off of anything a Dad says about his sons MPH on the mound.

For about the price of a baseball bat ($200) individuals can go out and buy a pocket radar gun that will bring those who need it a dose of reality. The pocket radar is as accurate as any of the radar guns used at showcases. www.pocketradar.com check it out.

Good points from all, but this discussion started on Colonial District projections--who are the good teams. Like to see it back there. Thanks.

I'm not bballguy or w/e. My name is = CLAIM DELETED BY MODERATOR - MN-Mom =.

Boy this thread went downhill in a hurry. What started out as a Colonial District discussion has become accusations of parent/coach self promotion and posing. IMO enough. Let's get back to talking about the upcoming season. There are too many good kids, teams and games to talk about. Thanks for hearing my opinion.

I spoke to Travis Biddix and he had never even heard of this site. It's sad when people try to rise up by putting others down, especially players. What is gained by you saying that you are Travis?

This is all sounding really bad guys and/or gals. Oldhandcoach, I don't know you and have nothing personal against you that I know of, and was not going to say anything else either, but after just reading your message that listed folks about multiple accounts and all, prompting this last tango, sorry, I'm not your guy, nor does it look like the others are either. Thats really wrong bringing innocent people into it. Oh well, here is a suggestion for all of us, if you have a personal grudge against anyone for whatever crazy reason, then please just personally contact them using the personal note tool and work it out amongst yourselves, and don't make a public event out of it with ugly statements, etc. It only makes things worse for everyone. Most people would agree that we need to get back to a regular board and keep all the garbage out of it. Can someone start a new thread and start over? Lets keep the Peace.

I am = CLAIM DELETED BY MODERATOR - MN-Mom =. **** Deep Run and **** Freeman, Godwin's taking this district.

Talking about velocity and success at the D-1 level.Seth Cutler/Voltz at VCU has been very successful there and is one of the preseason top three pitchers in the CAA.I have seen him pitch a number of times at the diamond sitting behind the guys charting the pitches with the radar guns and his fastball normally tops out at 84-85,but the kid can pitch.

I hate stupid dads who think they know about High School Baseball.

You guys are lame

This thread is getting to be beyond absurd. What does any of this have to do with Colonial District Predictions? I agree with Bballguy123 AND QuadAAAA, these guys who have their own personal agenda need to butt out. There is no room for this type of poisonous trash talk.

Why don't you guys MAN UP and contact each other directly, work out your problems directly with each other, and let this thread return to what it is supposed to be? ...or, if you really need to keep on posting ridiculous ****, start your own thread and keep your trash to yourselves and anyone that really wants to read about it? Grow up, gentlemen!

quote:

I am =NAME DELETED=. **** Deep Run and **** Freeman, Godwin's taking this district.

I'm not sure what to believe at this point.

If you are indeed =NAME DELETED=, you would be well advised to take down the above post. Ask your brother how college coaches, or your current HS coach, would feel about it if he knew about it.

If you're not =NAME DELETED=, as someone above charged, then this is so far over the line I don't know where to start. Not only is the post inappropriate, but if it's done by an imposter, it's a slander on the boy's good name.

Either way, I am hereby clicking on the "report post" icon.

None of which is to say that Godwin might not win the district. Could very well be!

But it's a fan's prerogative to speculate. And seeing it all play out on the field is a big part of the fun.