Deshaun Watson took out a 5M insurance policy against a career ending injury while at Clemson.
As allowed by the NCAA clemson pays the premiums. But players families can pay if they can afford to. There are different types of coverage . Loss of value insurance pays out if he drastically falls in the NFL draft because of injury.
Players have to qualify for such insurance.
There are only a few guys who will truely become very rich when drafted. The big bucks, just like in baseball, comes later.
Two words - Jaylon Smith
"Say Jaylon Smith went 5th overall. He'd get a fully guaranteed 4-yr, $23.5M deal. Wound up with a 4-yr, $6.5M ($4.5M guar) deal instead."
For those who don't know, Jaylon Smith was a projected top five pick before destroying his knee in a bowl game last year. He's made an amazing recovery but is still awaiting the nerve to regenerate in his knee.
this is such a great conversation. my son brought it up last night, he is 18, the world doesn't have a lot of grey to him...it is all right or wrong. he is said he thinks it is terrible...he would never skip his last college game, he has worked his whole life to play college ball, what about the team and his boys...and so on.
all good valid stuff - someone raised him well...must be his mom!! Maybe life and the business world has a way of jading us over time but I am still pretty comfortable with my argument.
That being said I made no attempt to argue with him or give him the other side last night, where he is going to be playing in school the attitude he has is spot on perfect. I saw no need to expose another view point!
old_school posted:this is such a great conversation. my son brought it up last night, he is 18, the world doesn't have a lot of grey to him...it is all right or wrong. he is said he thinks it is terrible...he would never skip his last college game, he has worked his whole life to play college ball, what about the team and his boys...and so on.
all good valid stuff - someone raised him well...must be his mom!! Maybe life and the business world has a way of jading us over time but I am still pretty comfortable with my argument.
That being said I made no attempt to argue with him or give him the other side last night, where he is going to be playing in school the attitude he has is spot on perfect. I saw no need to expose another view point!
I applaud your son for his loyalty and I can see both sides of the argument...but I don't necessarily think McCaffrey has worked his whole life to play college ball. He's probably worked his whole life to play pro ball.
His dad was an oft injured pro who had a nasty broken leg that I believe ended his career and he had several concussions to boot. Maybe his dad is advising him to sit out or maybe not.
I thought about how I would feel if he was my teammate and honestly, I wouldn't be upset with him for not taking the risk.
I don't know much about football, but do I have this right? A players college team is playing in a bowl, a bowl that does not count towards the teams standings, or have any bearing on their season whatsoever. The player is highly ranked and expected to go for millions in the draft. The player has chosen not to play for fear of injury that could affect his draft position.
Is that all correct?
CaCO3Girl posted:I don't know much about football, but do I have this right? A players college team is playing in a bowl, a bowl that does not count towards the teams standings, or have any bearing on their season whatsoever. The player is highly ranked and expected to go for millions in the draft. The player has chosen not to play for fear of injury that could affect his draft position.
Is that all correct?
Correct!
My son is 15, also raised well. Loves his teammates and is constantly lauded by his coaches as being a great teammate and leader... he thinks you would have to be off your rocker to put your future family at risk over a stupid bowl game. I made it all the way to my early 40's still getting together once every month or two with my homies for poker or some other activity. I would guess that's longer than most. I still love them all but now I see them at weddings or funerals. My family. That's pretty much where it begins and ends for me. Yes I have friends from my sons sports crowd. I join them for tailgates. I like them. But my kids... well that's a whole different category of love. I would not do anything for my friends or personal glory that would put my family's future the least bit at risk. Take the money and run!!!
Good for them. Until college athletes start getting paid for their services (beyond scholarships) they have the right to do what's best for them. If the NCAA ever gets to the point where it offers contracts to college kids then i think this could end. Coaches do it all the time and have no regrets. It will potentially diminish the bowl games and it will be interesting IF it ever impact the playoff teams.
Who said its a stupid bowl game? These games bring revenue to your program and other programs within the school.
A player doesnt have to play if he chooses not too, but keep yourself available on the sidelines if needed. Be smart. The chances of getting hurt arent that high.
TPM posted:Who said its a stupid bowl game? These games bring revenue to your program and other programs within the school.
A player doesnt have to play if he chooses not too, but keep yourself available on the sidelines if needed. Be smart. The chances of getting hurt arent that high.
I would think the chances of a player who was about to be drafted for millions would be higher than most for two reasons. One, that Murphy's law thing really sucks, especially when you are on a life changing precipice. And two, the guy that is NOT about to be drafted for millions is ticked that that player is and will now PROVE to the world that he is better, talk about a target.
So how will NFL teams look at this? Kid is smart for not risking injury and protecting "our potential future investment" or The kid is selfish and a "me" player who I don't want on my team or will put himself above the team later on down the road? Or I guess, who cares as long as he can help me win?
I think that when these boys sign up to play for a school and obtain a scholarship they are signing up to finish out their commitment. Wonder if there's an easy fix making play as long as healthy a condition to receiving scholarship money. Otherwise, the student is immediately suspended, disenrolled and the money has to be paid back. If they have a legit injury then that would obviously be waived.
If an NFL team passed up on a player because he played the season with his team and sat out the meaningless exhibition game they call a "Bowl Game" to be healthy for his rookie season in the NFL he had better be prepared to defend his position if that player is All Pro. Top pros are hard to find in ANY sport. Why exclude the ones who are focused enough to choose to sit out?
With the Playoff Bowl system in place, many feel that all of the Bowl games not involved in the playoffs are meaningless exhibition games that are added to the end of the college season as opposed to the way the NFL does it in the Pre season. The best players routinely skip preseason games all the time to avoid injury......The NCAA allows coaches to skip out on their teams and take other jobs during the Bowl season. No one is criticizing Tom Herman for leaving UH before their bwol to start the Texas job. He recruited the Houston players and sold the parents on his character. Now they want to say what he did is alright but what the player chosse is horrible? I think they are both within their rights to seek employment when and where they like as long as they arent violating the law or a contract.
I'm going to bring back "degrees" to the discussion and ask for some honest responses. Who had a kid that, at an early age (let's say 11-12), started to show promise as a pitcher for his team. In fact he became the best pitcher on the team and whenever the team needed a win, he was to go-to guy. Parent starts to pay attention and is thinking the kid probably has a good shot at getting on that competitive high school program, but not if he is throwing double headers every weekend. The decision is made to start monitoring his pitching - maybe quits that team and gets a gig as a PO or even an invite so live pitching can be managed (around his lessons). His old teammates don't win a single game that next season. Come to find out the high school program had some gaps in pitcher development and when your kid shows up as a freshman, he gets brought up to varsity later in the season to throw some relief and maybe fill in as starter on some remaining non-conference games. At this point, the kid is pitching lights out and the parents start to hear the whispers about the next level. So, the kid has never had his arm "abused", but the parent starts thinking that the next three years as the #1 or #2 starter on varsity might take its toll and, again, a plan is developed to limit innings. While the kid does not technically sit out any games, the program developed is more conservative than this reasonable coach has ever instituted (seldom had a sophomore pitcher on varsity) and therefore the kid contributes less that what others before him have. Senior year program is to limit innings to 50 as the kid had a busy summer (got that verbal) and there is no longer anyone to impress at the high school level as the focus has shifted from high school to college - even though the kid had not set foot on the high school baseball field as a senior. High school team falters as the coach respects the innings limit despite adequate rest between starts.
99% of folks here will probably say this is perfectly reasonable, even if it negatively impacts the team's chances of going deep into the playoffs or maybe winning state. Everyone will understand that the focus has shifted and that while the kid wants to help his team, real life circumstances start creeping in and he has to do what is best for his future. McCaffrey is a running back and my understanding is that he wore the saddle proudly for three years and was a workhorse. Was instrumental in getting the team to the bowl game in the first place, which many of the players understand is ceremonial in many respects. Fournette has a nagging ankle injury that he has played through for many games already. I understand the NFL combine is in February and Fournette is buying himself some very important time to heal up after putting in years of effort in support of LSU.
I just don't see how anyone who's actually seen these guys play could call them selfish.
McCaffrey led the NCAA in total yards last year and Fournette runs like a battering ram.
Jaylon Smith lost approximately $19 million in guaranteed money last year. I think we'd all agree that's life changing money. I know, I know - it's not all about the money. If not, then why so many bowl games? You would at least have to win six games to qualify but now five will do. It's funny how one-sided this thing has gotten. Everyone (NCAA, universities, coaches) can cash in except the player. New tv deals are generating a lot of revenue but baseball can't get more scholarships?
fenwaysouth posted:I see this as an apples to oranges comparision. The CWS is for a national championship. These Bowl games for LSU and Stanford are not national championships and more about making appearance money for the school and end of year rankings that are meaningless for the most part. It is not the same thing in my mind.
Completely agree using the Apples to Oranges metaphor. But let's take it one step further and try to prove a negative...
What if there was an FBS playoff system similar to the FCS playoff system? 12 to 16 teams get into the FBS playoffs. Would we then see the top players remove themselves from the mix? My argument is no. Why? Because a playoff system allows for the player to build greater value for himself! More eyeballs, more exposure, more buzz, more, more, more...all leading to the potential for more money from signing, branding, etc.
Fournette and McCaffery are the first to call BS on the anachronistic bowl system, where the risk is not worth the reward. We're going to see many more take this same path, because there is little value to be gained playing a bowl game that can be more than a month from the end of the regular season. It's a second season, and almost the unofficial beginning of the Spring Season.
Personally, I'd love to see a mass exodus of topline, draft eligible players from the bowl season. Perhaps that would lead to a 16 team playoff season.
FriarFred posted:So how will NFL teams look at this? Kid is smart for not risking injury and protecting "our potential future investment" or The kid is selfish and a "me" player who I don't want on my team or will put himself above the team later on down the road? Or I guess, who cares as long as he can help me win?
choice C. Who cares as long as he can help me win! Truth be told they probably want him to sit out.
2020dad posted:FriarFred posted:So how will NFL teams look at this? Kid is smart for not risking injury and protecting "our potential future investment" or The kid is selfish and a "me" player who I don't want on my team or will put himself above the team later on down the road? Or I guess, who cares as long as he can help me win?
choice C. Who cares as long as he can help me win! Truth be told they probably want him to sit out.
This is an excerpt from an article I read this morning.
"His take was that any team that's drafting Fournette is drafting him because of his freakish physical traits. That's the selling point. For McCaffrey, the selling point is character and versatility. Now you're adding a minus in a character column that is supposed to be his strength."
I guess he means just like all of the high "character" guys who ONLY get drafted high.
I can see the Patriots drafting McCaffrey and him terrorizing LB's and safeties for the next 12 years.
2020.2023dad posted:I think that when these boys sign up to play for a school and obtain a scholarship they are signing up to finish out their commitment. Wonder if there's an easy fix making play as long as healthy a condition to receiving scholarship money. Otherwise, the student is immediately suspended, disenrolled and the money has to be paid back. If they have a legit injury then that would obviously be waived.
How about the coaches giving back their money as well when they leave the program?
hshuler posted:I just don't see how anyone who's actually seen these guys play could call them selfish.
McCaffrey led the NCAA in total yards last year and Fournette runs like a battering ram.
Jaylon Smith lost approximately $19 million in guaranteed money last year. I think we'd all agree that's life changing money. I know, I know - it's not all about the money. If not, then why so many bowl games? You would at least have to win six games to qualify but now five will do. It's funny how one-sided this thing has gotten. Everyone (NCAA, universities, coaches) can cash in except the player. New tv deals are generating a lot of revenue but baseball can't get more scholarships?
Amen Shu. As you know I grew up poor but better off than my dad who got our family out of the ghetto. Really no kidding my dad grew up in a nasty environment all the way around. Parents who were 16 when they had him, no supervision and living in a real bad part of town. Had to fight to survive, like actually fight. He did the best he could and got us into a poor working class neighborhood - a real step up. Had a murderer living accross the street one house over next door to a kid who was busted for auto theft - he lived directly accross the street from us. Had another murderer behind us and two houses down. These are people we knew well and sometimes hung out with. Three houses down was a kid who was stabbed in a knife fight which was gang related. I hung out with his brothers all the time. One of my two best friends from grade school was still in stateville penn last i knew. We all carried switchblades. Witnessed heroin for the first time when i was in 7th grade, and 8th grade girl on a field trip was shooting up in the woods. i could go on. I won't. I am the first ever in my family to get a college degree. I have done my best to take our family name to the next level. I will be able to die happy if my kids are the first generation to actually achieve wealth. And as much as I love sports AND respect the game and coaches and teammates, NOTHING is more important than the goal of future generations achieving happiness and financial security. Some of these kids its their only chance out. Can change their family forever. NO bowl game is worth jeopordizing that.
I bowed out earlier but after several posts on one side of the argument, I thought I'd at least make things interesting again...
Many of you are categorizing the bowl game as an insignificant scrimmage. Most college programs work all year with a few specific goals in mind… win conference, go to a big bowl game. College bowl games are not played like the NFL Pro Bowl. They are played to win. They are played with pride. For many of the players, the teammates, this will be the biggest (and last) game of their lives… regardless of the possible watering down effect of the NCAA playoff structure. Last time to go to war with their band of brothers. In the locker room, on the practice field, this game is huge. The Sun Bowl, BTW, is a game that typically draws 50K fans and has historically been one of the bigger bowls. The main attraction to this year’s Stanford v NC matchup would clearly have been McCaffrey. Do you really think this doesn’t matter to the teammates, the coaches, the student fan base, the alumni, the Stanford fans in general, and yes, all the entities that put on this event and TV viewership?
This is not an argument about comparing player standards to when coaches leave… as I mentioned before, this is apples and oranges. When a coach accepts a job at another school, there is the immediate factor of direct conflict of interest. That is a non-existent factor with the decision of the player. Even though he knows he plans to go pro, he has no such conflict with playing out his college career.
Also, this is not an argument about the structure of the big bad NCAA and sticking it to the man. This is about one player’s decision to not play in the last game of his college career. Is he doing the right thing?
Lastly, 20/20 said... NOTHING is more important than the goal of future generations achieving happiness and financial security. and also, when faced with this decision, your definitive advice would be "son grab the money and don't let it go.”
Well, I would argue that happiness and financial security are often two completely different things... even more so when we are talking big money. Have you heard some of the statistics regarding people who win the lottery? It’s usually gone in two years and results in the start of a decline in the level of happiness (below pre-lottery win levels) in the lives of the “winners”.
When it comes to making difficult decisions involving money, my teach will always be the same as it is with everything else… not “grab the money and don’t let go”, but “do the right thing” and “be a good person to others”. Always, for everything, “do the right thing”. Sometimes, that will mean take a pass on the money. Sometimes that will mean that the money should not be the primary motivator.
I believe that when one follows these guidelines, one will always be able to provide and find happiness.
20/20, I don’t know your whole story but I’ll bet it wasn’t money that was the primary factor that allowed you to become the first in your family to graduate from college but your determination and character. So, maybe your Dad gave you something more important than the money and "things" he couldn't give.
I understand both sides of the argument here. And I don't believe the decision of either player will or should affect their draft status.
That said, football is the ultimate team sport. I read Urban Meyer's book over Thanksgiving, and love him or hate him, it clearly lays out what it takes for a team to excel at that level. It's gotta be all-in from all players. Coaches, too. So in my mind the decision to risk millions of dollars should be made at the beginning of the season. If you're willing to take that risk on because you think you can make more money by playing out of this world or winning a Heisman and improving your draft stock, then that's all good. You make a commitment to your team at that point. And that commitment lasts until the final whistle is blown. But when the season winds down and the final game is yet to be played, you shouldn't bail on your team or you were never all-in anyway. You can't just back out on your team because now the value to your future income is no longer enhanced by playing in the game. That should have been in the decision criteria at the beginning of the season. Heck, why not skip the last meaningless regular season game of the year, or the last two games, or the last three?
I get that millions of dollars are on the line. And, who knows, maybe I'd get off my high horse if my kid was in that position, but I hope I wouldn't. I hope I would counsel him to stay loyal to his brothers. You go to battle for four years with teammates who should be lifelong friends. I can't imagine giving up on them at the very end, even if they approved and supported the decision. To me it's about a life lesson, and no amount of potential money loss should supersede that fact.
That's just my $0.02.
There is zero chance I would ever move one inch off my stance on this. But I confess this topic is way too personal for me so I think it best to bow out of this one for good. Everyone must follow their conscience on issues like this. If we all truly follow our conscience then we can all be happy with our decision. Peace!
cabbagedad posted:I bowed out earlier but after several posts on one side of the argument, I thought I'd at least make things interesting again...
Many of you are categorizing the bowl game as an insignificant scrimmage. Most college programs work all year with a few specific goals in mind… win conference, go to a big bowl game. College bowl games are not played like the NFL Pro Bowl. They are played to win. They are played with pride. For many of the players, the teammates, this will be the biggest game of their lives… regardless of the possible watering down effect of the NCAA playoff structure. In the locker room, on the practice field, this game is huge. The Sun Bowl, BTW, is a game that typically draws 50K fans and has historically been one of the bigger bowls. The main attraction to this year’s Stanford v NC matchup would clearly have been McCaffrey. Do you really think this doesn’t matter to the teammates, the coaches, the student fan base, the alumni, the Stanford fans in general, and yes, all the entities that put on this event and TV viewership?This is not an argument about comparing player standards to when coaches leave… as I mentioned before, this is apples and oranges. When a coach accepts a job at another school, there is the immediate factor of direct conflict of interest. That is a non-existent factor with the decision of the player. Even though he knows he plans to go pro, he has no such conflict with playing out his college career.
Also, this is not an argument about the structure of the big bad NCAA and sticking it to the man. This is about one player’s decision to not play in the last game of his college career. Is he doing the right thing?
Lastly, 20/20 said... NOTHING is more important than the goal of future generations achieving happiness and financial security. and also, when faced with this decision, your definitive advice would be "son grab the money and don't let it go.”
Well, I would argue that happiness and financial security are often two completely different things... even more so when we are talking big money. Have you heard some of the statistics regarding people who win the lottery? It’s usually gone in two years and results in the start of a decline in the level of happiness in the lives of the “winners”.
When it comes to making difficult decisions involving money, my teach will always be the same as it is with everything else… not “grab the money and don’t let go”, but “do the right thing” and “be a good person to others”. Always, for everything, “do the right thing”. Sometimes, that will mean take a pass on the money. Sometimes that will mean that the money should not be the primary motivator.
I believe that when one follows these guidelines, one will always be able to provide and find happiness.
20/20, I don’t know your whole story but I’ll bet it wasn’t money that was the primary factor that allowed you to become the first in your family to graduate from college but your determination and character. So, maybe your Dad gave you something more important than the money and "things" he couldn't give.
Great points - very well said!
As we all know, money won't eliminate all of your problems in life but it could eliminate your financial problems (no guarantee) if managed properly.
IMO, money is just an amplifier. If you're a drug addict - more money, more drugs. If you're a good, kind-hearted person - you'll probably do more good, kind-hearted acts with more money. I am a firm believer that money doesn't change people but it can reveal their true colors. It reveals the charlatans.
Personally, I'll take rich folks problems over poor folks problems any day. LoL
Regarding bowl games, I can tell you that some player care and some don't. Their main goal even when they aren't draft eligible is to stay healthy.
Regarding whether he's doing the right thing, I think he's convinced that he's doing the right thing for himself in this instance and personally, I don't think that's selfish.
Lastly, regarding the big bad NCAA sticking it to the man...We all know that college football is big business for the NCAA and these institutions. I wonder how much revenue in jersey sales alone McCaffrey has generated? I wonder how many decisions the NCAA has EVER made with the best interest of the student-athlete versus money as the primary motivator? I don't know that answer but just food for thought.
Shoveit4Ks posted:2020.2023dad posted:I think that when these boys sign up to play for a school and obtain a scholarship they are signing up to finish out their commitment. Wonder if there's an easy fix making play as long as healthy a condition to receiving scholarship money. Otherwise, the student is immediately suspended, disenrolled and the money has to be paid back. If they have a legit injury then that would obviously be waived.
How about the coaches giving back their money as well when they leave the program?
Why shouldn't they? Some of them probably do. They have a contract, too.
Unfortunately we have a small sample size right now, but let me lay out some of my understanding as it relates to 5 star recruits. Most don't grow up all misty eyed cheering on some college that they dream of attending, much less dream of playing football there. Quite the opposite. Most, IMO, are trying to make as good a business decision as allowed given the circumstances (i.e. they are amateurs and must remain so). Want to know what one of the major recruiting points for Alabama is? Is it the chance to form lifelong bonds? Not quite - it's Saban's track record of getting kids drafted. That 5 star may like certain schools more than others, but he is not going to campus to make friends and will gladly put up with others he does not particularly like if they can help him succeed. Talk about a lack of an real loyalty - the really good kids wait until the very last minute while keeping maybe 4-5 schools hanging and then announce their choice in a 10 minute video that probably cost $5k+. Please explain why they should instantaneously become BFF with some random group of 85 guys.
Stop treating this like the Hoosiers movie with a group of 7 pimply faced kids trying to win a state championship against the big, bad big city school. Alabama football (using the same example) is in fact a serous business. While we are at it, why don't we start bashing kids who leave the program. Won't the team miss them cheering on the sidelines? What if the #1 and the #2 go down with injuries and the #3 already transferred - that kid should be subjected to caning. Oh yea, everyone here wants to get to D1 baseball - please remind me of the transfer rate out of D1 baseball. Are we going to bash some kid riding the bench who decides to transfer and his teammates lose out on his cheers from the dugout? There may be an argument that the star should not sit out the last game, but I think we probably have about a dozen other situations that we need to discuss first before we get to this minor breach of etiquette.
I think I understand someone's disdain for the practice if Knute Rockne is the first thing that comes to mind when discussing college football. The first thing that I think about are the BILLIONS of dollars in revenue over the years racked up by college and NFL football teams.
I get what you're saying, 2017, but...
If you look at many of the best D1 programs and hottest D1 coaches in college football right now, you are looking at coaches who know how to, not only recruit the best players, but get them to buy into the team-first concept, including the pampered 5-star guys who were always too selfish to learn this before.
Meyer, Herman, Harbaugh, Dabo, PJ Fleck... we're talking today. Real Knute Rockne rah-rah stuff. Row the boat!
OK, I know, there aren't many 5- stars at Western Michigan, but the big schools have their rally cries as well.
cabbagedad posted:I get what you're saying, 2017, but...
If you look at many of the best D1 programs and hottest D1 coaches in college football right now, you are looking at coaches who know how to, not only recruit the best players, but get them to buy into the team-first concept, including the pampered 5-star guys who were always too selfish to learn this before.
Meyer, Herman, Harbaugh, Dabo, PJ Fleck... we're talking today. Real Knute Rockne rah-rah stuff. Row the boat!
OK, I know, there aren't many 5- stars at Western Michigan, but the big schools have their rally cries as well.
I'll soften my stance a bit, so long as I don't have to hear phrases like "in the trenches" and "no man left behind" when it comes to FBS football. Some of the team-first is probably needed to tamp down some egos - what's the old saying about too many 5 stars at practice? I'll also say that, while the money is a huge component, no great ballplayer wants to end up like Jaylon Smith (although he should be set financially) and basically have to sit around and try to work to get back into the game. At this time I don't believe he is cleared pending some further recovery of nerve damage (please correct me if I'm wrong here). I'd be a lot more concerned about the mid-major lineman who was hoping to slip into the late rounds or maybe even get signed to the practice squad afterwards - if that guy gets hurt bad during the bowl game it will end his career.
2020dad posted:hshuler posted:I just don't see how anyone who's actually seen these guys play could call them selfish.
McCaffrey led the NCAA in total yards last year and Fournette runs like a battering ram.
Jaylon Smith lost approximately $19 million in guaranteed money last year. I think we'd all agree that's life changing money. I know, I know - it's not all about the money. If not, then why so many bowl games? You would at least have to win six games to qualify but now five will do. It's funny how one-sided this thing has gotten. Everyone (NCAA, universities, coaches) can cash in except the player. New tv deals are generating a lot of revenue but baseball can't get more scholarships?
Amen Shu. As you know I grew up poor but better off than my dad who got our family out of the ghetto. Really no kidding my dad grew up in a nasty environment all the way around. Parents who were 16 when they had him, no supervision and living in a real bad part of town. Had to fight to survive, like actually fight. He did the best he could and got us into a poor working class neighborhood - a real step up. Had a murderer living accross the street one house over next door to a kid who was busted for auto theft - he lived directly accross the street from us. Had another murderer behind us and two houses down. These are people we knew well and sometimes hung out with. Three houses down was a kid who was stabbed in a knife fight which was gang related. I hung out with his brothers all the time. One of my two best friends from grade school was still in stateville penn last i knew. We all carried switchblades. Witnessed heroin for the first time when i was in 7th grade, and 8th grade girl on a field trip was shooting up in the woods. i could go on. I won't. I am the first ever in my family to get a college degree. I have done my best to take our family name to the next level. I will be able to die happy if my kids are the first generation to actually achieve wealth. And as much as I love sports AND respect the game and coaches and teammates, NOTHING is more important than the goal of future generations achieving happiness and financial security. Some of these kids its their only chance out. Can change their family forever. NO bowl game is worth jeopordizing that.
I am sorry but you are talking about two players who have decided to not play in their bowl games and more than likely didn't come from backgrounds you may have witnessed growing up.
Despite what you think, money isn't the answer to happiness, and as we have all witnessed, many football players have been in plenty of trouble AFTER they got rich.
Too many folks out there want their sons to become big stars so they can live life easy. Teach your sons to be good people, do well in school, possibly get a scholarship to help defray college costs and don't rely on sports to make you rich.
I see a lot of entitlement going on these days. A coach makes a player an incedible offer, the program pays for his education, feeds and clothes them for 3,4 years, teaches them life skills, a chance to earn a degree and then teach them to BECOME MEN and still that's not good enough for many. Yup, the school did make lots of money from some of them, but you dont realize how much the player takes away from being a part of a team and entire community and their success helped out the next guy. You also don't know the all of the rewards they will earn from the experience.
The whole point of it all is that these things tend to set a precedent and for some feel it just isn't right (read Kirk Herbstreet). Some think it's all good, but let's not go on a tangent about growing up poor, because it has no place in the discussion.
JMO
Sorry, can't help it!!!
TPM posted:2020dad posted:hshuler posted:I just don't see how anyone who's actually seen these guys play could call them selfish.
McCaffrey led the NCAA in total yards last year and Fournette runs like a battering ram.
Jaylon Smith lost approximately $19 million in guaranteed money last year. I think we'd all agree that's life changing money. I know, I know - it's not all about the money. If not, then why so many bowl games? You would at least have to win six games to qualify but now five will do. It's funny how one-sided this thing has gotten. Everyone (NCAA, universities, coaches) can cash in except the player. New tv deals are generating a lot of revenue but baseball can't get more scholarships?
Amen Shu. As you know I grew up poor but better off than my dad who got our family out of the ghetto. Really no kidding my dad grew up in a nasty environment all the way around. Parents who were 16 when they had him, no supervision and living in a real bad part of town. Had to fight to survive, like actually fight. He did the best he could and got us into a poor working class neighborhood - a real step up. Had a murderer living accross the street one house over next door to a kid who was busted for auto theft - he lived directly accross the street from us. Had another murderer behind us and two houses down. These are people we knew well and sometimes hung out with. Three houses down was a kid who was stabbed in a knife fight which was gang related. I hung out with his brothers all the time. One of my two best friends from grade school was still in stateville penn last i knew. We all carried switchblades. Witnessed heroin for the first time when i was in 7th grade, and 8th grade girl on a field trip was shooting up in the woods. i could go on. I won't. I am the first ever in my family to get a college degree. I have done my best to take our family name to the next level. I will be able to die happy if my kids are the first generation to actually achieve wealth. And as much as I love sports AND respect the game and coaches and teammates, NOTHING is more important than the goal of future generations achieving happiness and financial security. Some of these kids its their only chance out. Can change their family forever. NO bowl game is worth jeopordizing that.
I am sorry but you are talking about two players who have decided to not play in their bowl games and more than likely didn't come from backgrounds you may have witnessed growing up.
Despite what you think, money isn't the answer to happiness, and as we have all witnessed, many football players have been in plenty of trouble AFTER they got rich.
Too many folks out there want their sons to become big stars so they can live life easy. Teach your sons to be good people, do well in school, possibly get a scholarship to help defray college costs and don't rely on sports to make you rich.
I see a lot of entitlement going on these days. A coach makes a player an incedible offer, the program pays for his education, feeds and clothes them for 3,4 years, teaches them life skills, a chance to earn a degree and then teach them to BECOME MEN and still that's not good enough for many. Yup, the school did make lots of money from some of them, but you dont realize how much the player takes away from being a part of a team and entire community and their success helped out the next guy. You also don't know the all of the rewards they will earn from the experience.
The whole point of it all is that these things tend to set a precedent and for some feel it just isn't right (read Kirk Herbstreet). Some think it's all good, but let's not go on a tangent about growing up poor, because it has no place in the discussion.
JMO
Leave it to you to get personal and pull me back in... don't even try to tell me what belongs or doesn't belong on here. I have never taken away one single positive from any of your tangents. And stop selling that crap about money isn't the answer. That's what people say when they don't want you to fight for a piece of what they consider 'their' pie. And growing up poor has everything to do with an issue like this. I can not figure out how to block people on my phone. If you could help with that it would be the one good take away from you over these last few years. I will try to remember the next time I am on a computer to block you. I have had enough of your venom for a lifetime.
CaCO3Girl posted:TPM posted:Who said its a stupid bowl game? These games bring revenue to your program and other programs within the school.
A player doesnt have to play if he chooses not too, but keep yourself available on the sidelines if needed. Be smart. The chances of getting hurt arent that high.
I would think the chances of a player who was about to be drafted for millions would be higher than most for two reasons. One, that Murphy's law thing really sucks, especially when you are on a life changing precipice. And two, the guy that is NOT about to be drafted for millions is ticked that that player is and will now PROVE to the world that he is better, talk about a target.
It's really a shame some think that way. Never thought in a minute that my son would throw a 98 mph ball at someone to hurt them and ruin their future.
It's all in the way you raise your kids I suppose. Why would anyone deliberately hurt someone. Thats why so many prefer the college game.
2020dad posted:TPM posted:2020dad posted:hshuler posted:I just don't see how anyone who's actually seen these guys play could call them selfish.
McCaffrey led the NCAA in total yards last year and Fournette runs like a battering ram.
Jaylon Smith lost approximately $19 million in guaranteed money last year. I think we'd all agree that's life changing money. I know, I know - it's not all about the money. If not, then why so many bowl games? You would at least have to win six games to qualify but now five will do. It's funny how one-sided this thing has gotten. Everyone (NCAA, universities, coaches) can cash in except the player. New tv deals are generating a lot of revenue but baseball can't get more scholarships?
Amen Shu. As you know I grew up poor but better off than my dad who got our family out of the ghetto. Really no kidding my dad grew up in a nasty environment all the way around. Parents who were 16 when they had him, no supervision and living in a real bad part of town. Had to fight to survive, like actually fight. He did the best he could and got us into a poor working class neighborhood - a real step up. Had a murderer living accross the street one house over next door to a kid who was busted for auto theft - he lived directly accross the street from us. Had another murderer behind us and two houses down. These are people we knew well and sometimes hung out with. Three houses down was a kid who was stabbed in a knife fight which was gang related. I hung out with his brothers all the time. One of my two best friends from grade school was still in stateville penn last i knew. We all carried switchblades. Witnessed heroin for the first time when i was in 7th grade, and 8th grade girl on a field trip was shooting up in the woods. i could go on. I won't. I am the first ever in my family to get a college degree. I have done my best to take our family name to the next level. I will be able to die happy if my kids are the first generation to actually achieve wealth. And as much as I love sports AND respect the game and coaches and teammates, NOTHING is more important than the goal of future generations achieving happiness and financial security. Some of these kids its their only chance out. Can change their family forever. NO bowl game is worth jeopordizing that.
I am sorry but you are talking about two players who have decided to not play in their bowl games and more than likely didn't come from backgrounds you may have witnessed growing up.
Despite what you think, money isn't the answer to happiness, and as we have all witnessed, many football players have been in plenty of trouble AFTER they got rich.
Too many folks out there want their sons to become big stars so they can live life easy. Teach your sons to be good people, do well in school, possibly get a scholarship to help defray college costs and don't rely on sports to make you rich.
I see a lot of entitlement going on these days. A coach makes a player an incedible offer, the program pays for his education, feeds and clothes them for 3,4 years, teaches them life skills, a chance to earn a degree and then teach them to BECOME MEN and still that's not good enough for many. Yup, the school did make lots of money from some of them, but you dont realize how much the player takes away from being a part of a team and entire community and their success helped out the next guy. You also don't know the all of the rewards they will earn from the experience.
The whole point of it all is that these things tend to set a precedent and for some feel it just isn't right (read Kirk Herbstreet). Some think it's all good, but let's not go on a tangent about growing up poor, because it has no place in the discussion.
JMO
Leave it to you to get personal and pull me back in... don't even try to tell me what belongs or doesn't belong on here. I have never taken away one single positive from any of your tangents. And stop selling that crap about money isn't the answer. That's what people say when they don't want you to fight for a piece of what they consider 'their' pie. And growing up poor has everything to do with an issue like this. I can not figure out how to block people on my phone. If you could help with that it would be the one good take away from you over these last few years. I will try to remember the next time I am on a computer to block you. I have had enough of your venom for a lifetime.
There was nothing personal in what she said. In what you said, however...
2020dad posted:TPM posted:2020dad posted:hshuler posted:I just don't see how anyone who's actually seen these guys play could call them selfish.
McCaffrey led the NCAA in total yards last year and Fournette runs like a battering ram.
Jaylon Smith lost approximately $19 million in guaranteed money last year. I think we'd all agree that's life changing money. I know, I know - it's not all about the money. If not, then why so many bowl games? You would at least have to win six games to qualify but now five will do. It's funny how one-sided this thing has gotten. Everyone (NCAA, universities, coaches) can cash in except the player. New tv deals are generating a lot of revenue but baseball can't get more scholarships?
Amen Shu. As you know I grew up poor but better off than my dad who got our family out of the ghetto. Really no kidding my dad grew up in a nasty environment all the way around. Parents who were 16 when they had him, no supervision and living in a real bad part of town. Had to fight to survive, like actually fight. He did the best he could and got us into a poor working class neighborhood - a real step up. Had a murderer living accross the street one house over next door to a kid who was busted for auto theft - he lived directly accross the street from us. Had another murderer behind us and two houses down. These are people we knew well and sometimes hung out with. Three houses down was a kid who was stabbed in a knife fight which was gang related. I hung out with his brothers all the time. One of my two best friends from grade school was still in stateville penn last i knew. We all carried switchblades. Witnessed heroin for the first time when i was in 7th grade, and 8th grade girl on a field trip was shooting up in the woods. i could go on. I won't. I am the first ever in my family to get a college degree. I have done my best to take our family name to the next level. I will be able to die happy if my kids are the first generation to actually achieve wealth. And as much as I love sports AND respect the game and coaches and teammates, NOTHING is more important than the goal of future generations achieving happiness and financial security. Some of these kids its their only chance out. Can change their family forever. NO bowl game is worth jeopordizing that.
I am sorry but you are talking about two players who have decided to not play in their bowl games and more than likely didn't come from backgrounds you may have witnessed growing up.
Despite what you think, money isn't the answer to happiness, and as we have all witnessed, many football players have been in plenty of trouble AFTER they got rich.
Too many folks out there want their sons to become big stars so they can live life easy. Teach your sons to be good people, do well in school, possibly get a scholarship to help defray college costs and don't rely on sports to make you rich.
I see a lot of entitlement going on these days. A coach makes a player an incedible offer, the program pays for his education, feeds and clothes them for 3,4 years, teaches them life skills, a chance to earn a degree and then teach them to BECOME MEN and still that's not good enough for many. Yup, the school did make lots of money from some of them, but you dont realize how much the player takes away from being a part of a team and entire community and their success helped out the next guy. You also don't know the all of the rewards they will earn from the experience.
The whole point of it all is that these things tend to set a precedent and for some feel it just isn't right (read Kirk Herbstreet). Some think it's all good, but let's not go on a tangent about growing up poor, because it has no place in the discussion.
JMO
Leave it to you to get personal and pull me back in... don't even try to tell me what belongs or doesn't belong on here. I have never taken away one single positive from any of your tangents. And stop selling that crap about money isn't the answer. That's what people say when they don't want you to fight for a piece of what they consider 'their' pie. And growing up poor has everything to do with an issue like this. I can not figure out how to block people on my phone. If you could help with that it would be the one good take away from you over these last few years. I will try to remember the next time I am on a computer to block you. I have had enough of your venom for a lifetime.
Isnt it funny how people can post whatever they want, when they want, but if someone posts something not what they want to hear they get pissed.
Sorry, but your story wasnt relative to this discussion. You always seem to be so angry, now I understand.
No, money isnt the answer, you think it is, most learn its not after they have it.
And I would share whatever pie I have even its my last piece, so dont go there because you know nothing about me.
Heres how you can block me. Just tap on my name when the options come up, hit block.
2017LHPscrewball posted:I'd be a lot more concerned about the mid-major lineman who was hoping to slip into the late rounds or maybe even get signed to the practice squad afterwards - if that guy gets hurt bad during the bowl game it will end his career.
I would say that at least in that case, there is a potential significant upside to playing--showing what one can do with what may be the best opponent they ever face, and taking advantage of that opportunity.
This whole issue is just proof that the NFL (and NBA) need to stop leeching off college athletics and start their own development systems. Turn college sports back towards student athletes.
ugh...and very Merry Christmas to all!!!
Golfman25 posted:This whole issue is just proof that the NFL (and NBA) need to stop leeching off college athletics and start their own development systems. Turn college sports back towards student athletes.
There are only really a few that make an NFL team, so taking kids ( yes they are at 17,18) away from an opportunity to get an education isnt going to work.
I am sorry everyone this was a good discussion taking a dark turn.
Yes, college football gives many, an opportunity to make their lives better, to earn a degree, get a good job, have solid careers. It really shouldnt matter to anyone but the individual about where they came from.
JMO
old_school posted:ugh...and very Merry Christmas to all!!!
+1 
