I would like to hear the pros and cons on committing early.
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You should get some well-informed replies.
You can also do a search here and find a lot of discussion.
From what I have seen the pros are that sometimes it works out absolutely great for the kid, and the cons are that sometimes it's a disaster.
PROS: Kid can relax and play without the pressure of pleasing. Time can be spent cleaning up/improving their game. Money can be saved, limit travel/tournaments/showcases, go to committed to college's camps. Focus on grades, like baseball they can never be too good. Parents get to post on social media.
CONS: Staff that recruited player leaves, RC that loves your son takes another job and HC has no idea who you are. HC is fired, resigns or takes another job. You stop working because you "made it" and it shows, they decommit from you because you have not progressed. At 15 they recruit you based on how much they expect you to develop. Kid has no idea what he wants to do with his professional (not baseball) life, that school have a curriculum/major that fits?
That's just a start, this should be a fun and informative thread to follow.
JCG posted:You should get some well-informed replies.
You can also do a search here and find a lot of discussion.
From what I have seen the pros are that sometimes it works out absolutely great for the kid, and the cons are that sometimes it's a disaster.
^^^^^^^+1...in a nutshell. We were talking about this the other day. If it's a dream school, go for it. If not, why take yourself off the market early?
Advantages:
Gives you a strong sense of affirmation (which is no small thing in a sport defined by failure)
Gives you something to crow about to others (how much of an advantage this counts as depends on your personality and situation)
Relieves one major source of stress -- uncertainty. Which can be a very major source of stress.
Disadvantages:
It's a one way street.
Teams that might otherwise be interested in you, will stop thinking about you as an option. Which may or may not be a big deal, depending on....
... The coach who got you to commit early and his situation.
Because he does not thereby commit to you. No matter who he is, he is likely to keep looking, since he has to hedge his bets.
If he finds a better fit, he may drop you like a hot potato without hesitation.
That particular coach may not even be around when time comes to make an actual binding offer.
Though one major source of stress (uncertainty) may be relieved, another source of stress, probably lesser, is introduced since you still have to do your part to make sure that the "offer" comes to ultimate fruition in the form of a signed NLI.
Welcome to the site. What position does player play and is this a school at the top of his list? Are we talking power 5 D1? These are a few key variables. I'm sure you will get some great responses but also be aware that you can search existing threads in this forum and there are many on this topic. Generally...
Some pro's -
assuming school is making significant $ investment, less likely that they will recruit more high profile guys at your position
better chance of finding a mutual match - they are looking for a player like you for position and you are looking at their school as one of your top choices
some mental relief from the recruiting process
Some cons -
you basically take yourself off the market, so if things change, it can be a much more difficult path to find the right school again
If coaches change, which they do frequently, you may be starting all over or in a place where you are no longer considered the preferred player
it is a very one-sided agreement. if you don't progress at the expected rate or if they find a better candidate at your position, they will find a way to "back out".
If your interests change or refine as to which school you prefer, it becomes much more difficult to change directions.
PS - well geez, looks like I just repeated what everyone else said in the last seven minutes. At least we are consistent.
Old timer posted:I would like to hear the pros and cons on committing early.
- What is early?
- What is the assumed level of academic achievement?
- What is the assumed number of college choices at the time of committing early?
- What position is played?
- What is the level of baseball talent (use a PG rating as the indicator)?
JCG posted:From what I have seen the pros are that sometimes it works out absolutely great for the kid, and the cons are that sometimes it's a disaster.
To amplify on this a bit. My son played with 2 kids who committed to the same major conference school during their sophomore year of HS. It was a dream school for both. One was a 2016, the other a 2017. Subsequently the recruiting coach moved on. 2016 was given an NLI and played extremely for the team this year as a frosh. 2017 was left dangling and never saw an NLI. Fortunately he found a nice mid-level conference match a month or so ago and signed.
Sometimes it works out great. Sometimes it doesn't.
You could make the case that despite its flaws the system worked well and each kid wound up where he really belongs. But I can't help thinking the 2017 got lucky in the end and would have had a much smoother ride without the early commit.
Just look up top, hit the magnifying glass to do a search...The answer today is the same as it was in 2004...a one way street to nowhere....
Early Commitments
cabbagedad posted:Welcome to the site. What position does player play and is this a school at the top of his list? Are we talking power 5 D1? These are a few key variables. I'm sure you will get some great responses but also be aware that you can search existing threads in this forum and there are many on this topic. Generally...
Some pro's -
assuming school is making significant $ investment, less likely that they will recruit more high profile guys at your position
better chance of finding a mutual match - they are looking for a player like you for position and you are looking at their school as one of your top choices
some mental relief from the recruiting process
Some cons -
you basically take yourself off the market, so if things change, it can be a much more difficult path to find the right school again
If coaches change, which they do frequently, you may be starting all over or in a place where you are no longer considered the preferred player
it is a very one-sided agreement. if you don't progress at the expected rate or if they find a better candidate at your position, they will find a way to "back out".
If your interests change or refine as to which school you prefer, it becomes much more difficult to change directions.
PS - well geez, looks like I just repeated what everyone else said in the last seven minutes. At least we are consistent.
RHP Major D1 it's on his list
I wonder how many kids commit early to their dream school without closely examining if it's the right school baseball wise, academically, geographically, socially and culturally.
It can be hard enough for adults to sort this all out. Yet ultimately the kid has to make the decision. Yes, baseball comes first for a top prospect. But a high school sophomore top prospect might not be one by the time he's twenty-one (didn't develop, injury) The other issues matter in the decision. The non baseball aspects of the decision may affect his future.
RJM posted:I wonder how many kids commit early to their dream school without closely examining if it's the right school baseball wise, academically, geographically, socially and culturally.
Yes indeed. My 2021 is not exactly an early recruit but it is funny how he says "wow it'd be so cool to play for Louisville" when he has literally never set foot in the state of Kentucky let alone has any clue about Louisville's curriculum nor any clue as to what he would major in. He wouldn't have even known that the U of Kentucky's home park is an extreme hitters park as compared to Louisville's park if I hadn't told him.
Old timer posted:cabbagedad posted:Welcome to the site. What position does player play and is this a school at the top of his list? Are we talking power 5 D1? These are a few key variables. I'm sure you will get some great responses but also be aware that you can search existing threads in this forum and there are many on this topic. Generally...
Some pro's -
assuming school is making significant $ investment, less likely that they will recruit more high profile guys at your position
better chance of finding a mutual match - they are looking for a player like you for position and you are looking at their school as one of your top choices
some mental relief from the recruiting process
Some cons -
you basically take yourself off the market, so if things change, it can be a much more difficult path to find the right school again
If coaches change, which they do frequently, you may be starting all over or in a place where you are no longer considered the preferred player
it is a very one-sided agreement. if you don't progress at the expected rate or if they find a better candidate at your position, they will find a way to "back out".
If your interests change or refine as to which school you prefer, it becomes much more difficult to change directions.
PS - well geez, looks like I just repeated what everyone else said in the last seven minutes. At least we are consistent.
RHP Major D1 it's on his list
Thanks, so with P's, I think you have sort of another sub-set of pro's and cons.
Teams carry lots of P's. So, signing the player early and committing $ won't stop school from recruiting hard for more guys like you or better. P's is where most of the $ goes, although that $ is not unlimited.
The race to sign arms is the most aggressive, so things happen earlier and, thus, I think there are more misses. Also, injury is most likely to be a factor with P's. And, if player does not develop quite as well as projected, the school may still keep him on with a lesser role in mind. That role may equate to a very unhappy player who had the impression he would play a much bigger role.
baseballmom posted:Just look up top, hit the magnifying glass to do a search...The answer today is the same as it was in 2004...a one way street to nowhere....
Early Commitments
wow if you look over the threads from 04-08 even later you realize how early is...back them the winter of JR year was consider early and somewhat controversial to discuss! Today you are already being looked at by D'3 by them and have been crossed off by D1 and much of D2...the college coaches sure have gotten better at predicting earlier!! Those dumbass coaches of 10 years were way behind!
Every trip we make this summer for baseball is being tied in with a campus visit to a school of interest in the area. Get an idea for the kind of campus environment your kid desires. We are trying to meet with the baseball staffs at those schools, a little harder to pull off it appears! Just getting one to answer the phone is a challenge.
Anyone care to give an educated guess (or if you know, even better) how much of the scholarship budget remains by the end of this summer for a major D1's? By class 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020.
If anyone knows the same from 10 years ago, that would be a good data point.
MLB draft, decommits not withstanding, I will guess zero, zero, 30%, 70%.
Anyone?
Go44dad posted:Anyone care to give an educated guess (or if you know, even better) how much of the scholarship budget remains by the end of this summer for a major D1's? By class 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020.
If anyone knows the same from 10 years ago, that would be a good data point.
MLB draft, decommits not withstanding, I will guess zero, zero, 30%, 70%.
Anyone?
Moving on from Heimlich, I thought the question posed by the wonderful and always thoughtful Go44Dad was a great one. Anyone care to postulate intelligentia et scientia?
Go44dad posted:Anyone care to give an educated guess (or if you know, even better) how much of the scholarship budget remains by the end of this summer for a major D1's? By class 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020.
If anyone knows the same from 10 years ago, that would be a good data point.
MLB draft, decommits not withstanding, I will guess zero, zero, 30%, 70%.
Anyone?
Sounds to me that would be a real good reason to commit early.
My son is a 2020...early commitment has come up often. The trend I am seeing with pitchers is that the super duper OMG this 14 year old is throwing a million miles an hour...those guys are NOT committing early. The 14 year old throwing 85 miles an hour IS committing early.
Every now and then it is because it is a local school to them and where they feel comfortable playing. I really can't fault that decision, if that is where they and their parents were always hoping they would go then good for them, I hope it works out. However, if the 14 year old is already 6'4 and 200 pounds he really might not progress much more in which case he will be dropped, then it is heartbreak for all.
What most of us 2020 parents have talked about is being very afraid of coaching changes and our kids not progressing. The general take has been what's the harm in waiting until Junior year when the kid is currently showing skills, not projected skills, CURRENT skills that the coach wants for his team. Yes, most of the money will be gone, but if you are talking MAJOR D1 then they have kids that will go in the draft and then money will be free again.
For low D1, D2, D3, NAIA and Juco....why commit early if the kid could progress more and possibly get a higher level school to show interest, possibly a better offer? It also depends on the aspirations of the player. There are some kids that say they WILL be on a MLB field one day, and some kids that are using baseball for leverage to get into a better school and have no aspirations to play after college. What does your kid want out of baseball is the biggest question I would ask. Follow that up with a plan to give him the best chance to get there.
"Sounds to me that would be a real good reason to commit early."
While all the money may be gone, ironically a bunch of that money is committed twice. Because early comittments are not enforceable, some schools will stockpile comittments and leave the "undeserving" at the proverbial NLI alter. What makes a kid "undeserving?" Coaching change, skills that plateau, draft miscalculations (either for incoming or out going players), grade/score issues, a better player comes along, are a few reasons.
Read the old threads. This is a passionate issue - it seems the younger the player and more inexperienced the parent, the more early comittment seems the better path.
Also, what exactly are the thought processes which lead your kid to pick this school? (Some posters here are gently asking: if he's good enough to get attention now, why lock yourself in without having a full understanding of possible college options - which tend to change as a kid's attention turns towards college?)
"What does your kid want out of baseball is the biggest question I would ask."
Play at Alex Box stadium. Pitch and bat clean-up.
From what I've heard, when it comes to Power 5 schools, the earliest a HC/RC will have a true educated guess as to if a player can contribute for them is when they see them as rising Seniors on the biggest Showcase/Tournament diamonds competing against top Power 5 recruits and potential MLB draft picks. Anything earlier than that is mere guesswork and projection.
This is an important element that many parents of early commits miss in a huge way. It really depends on the early commit's personality. Will they continue to work just as hard after they commit? And even if they work really hard, will the talent potential simply top out? For so many, the goal is to "get to college ball". The college coaches are looking for players whose goal is to excel at the college level and help win championships. Big difference.
You can commit as an 8th Grader, 9th Grader, whatever, but if you show up at Jupiter or Kernels or Area Code, WWBA etc in the summer before your Senior year and you can't hit the 90+ mph pitchers or you get raked on by future SEC/ACC hitters, your early commit is as valuable as a hill of beans.
Welcome to the site.
You are getting good advice, but often times what is left out, the most important is, ONLY COMMITT WHEN THE PLAYER FEELS IT IS THE RIGHT FIT FOR HIM.
Forget about the coaching staff, nowadays that is secondary. Coaches come and go, that's not going to change. This is their livelihood, and they will decide what is best for their future, and as much as parents don't like that, the coach has a right to improve his earning capacity and what is best for his family.
Worst advice is that you don't have to go to play in tournaments, showcases. How will the player develop if he doesn't play? That shouldn't even be a consideration.
Thanks for all the great replies. The couple replies that stick out is money left for 2017=0%, 2018=0%, 2019=30%, 2020=70%. The other is pitchers is where the money is spent. So my 2019 RHP looks like it would be best to commit fairly soon.
Old timer posted:Thanks for all the great replies. The couple replies that stick out is money left for 2017=0%, 2018=0%, 2019=30%, 2020=70%. The other is pitchers is where the money is spent. So my 2019 RHP looks like it would be best to commit fairly soon.
30%? Plus academic money? I wouldnt take my pitcher off the market for that!!!
What people fail to realize is that if a coach wants you, they will always find the money.
They just dont want you to know that.
TPM posted:30%? Plus academic money? I wouldnt take my pitcher off the market for that!!!
Did that poster mean 30% of his allotted scholarship money was left, not 30% scholarship to player?
NotThatGuy posted:TPM posted:30%? Plus academic money? I wouldnt take my pitcher off the market for that!!!
Did that poster mean 30% of his allotted scholarship money was left, not 30% scholarship to player?
Oh ok, but 30% left for what then?
I can only speak about son's recruitment path. He was a 2015 grad, so fairly recent. We live in very rural south GA. He played on fairly local travel teams until he was "discovered" at an All Star high school game after his sophomore year. It was on the campus of a good kid major program, and the coach brought us in to talk after the game was over. No offer was made, but he wanted us to come back in a few weeks for a visit and offer. We did and son received a good offer. We had no idea what the future held, but he was starting to get some attention from the big in state D1 who saw him at the All Star game. We thanked the HC for the offer and asked if there was a time limit. He said no time limit per se, but they were recruiting and once there offers were accepted, the scholarship money would be gone.
I completely understand parents concerns. This was my one and only son. When you get a scholarship offer from anyone, your first instinct is to jump at it, especially if the school is a good fit. This program checked all the boxes for son. His older cousin had just finished as a 4 year starter at catcher for this program, so we knew the coach and program pretty good. Still, son had hopes for the big D1. As a dad, I was nervous because I didn't really know how good son was.
Son had done a PG showcase the prior summer just to get some unbiased measurables. He graded at an 8 and was on the top prospect list for the showcase. As a rising 9th grader he was 2 or 3 in outfield velo, at 89 I think. He has always had a strong arm and received a good write up from PG scouts.
The following fall (start of jr year) he was invited to play on the top travel team in GA. In October, he attended a camp at LSU, being this was his dream school. At the beginning of the camp, one of the assistant coaches pulled son and two other kids aside and gave us a private tour. This caught us both off guard as we didn't know how LSU would have any idea who son was. Son did well at the camp. I think he hit 87 or so on mound. Coach Dunn pulled him to he side and told him they liked what they saw, but he needed to see son pitch the following summer in game situations and not a camp setting before he could make an offer. Through the fall and into the summer, we continued to sit on the single, mid major offer. Most all of the kids on the summer team had committed. I was really sweating it, but I kept this from son.
Summer after JR year son throws in a PG tourney with 50+ college coaches and pro scouts present. They were there to see him and he knew it because his summer coach had told him to be ready because everyone was gonna be there. I thought this might affect son but it didn't. The game didn't start until 9:00pm and ended around midnight. The next morning his phone had blown up with texts and phone calls from coaches wanting him to call them immediately. His recruitment went from 25mph to 100mph literally overnight. He did get the offer and accepted it from his dream school.
I know this has been long, but I just want to tell the parents that are in the middle of this thing, slow down. TPM and others that have said this are 100% right IMHO. If your kid has the tools, the schools will find the money if they really want you. If you get that offer and say yes as a 9th or even 10th grader, you better go into it with eyes wide open. He schools have all, not some but ALL, the leverage. Once you say yes, you are essentially off the market. If things change for you at the school over the next year or so, now you are scrambling for a spot.
Sort of my same take on the draft vs college. If you are good enough to be drafted out of high school, don't you think you will be in an even better position 3 years later? I understand injuries can happen. I also will admit it would be nearly impossible to turn down 1st or 2nd round money. But outside of that, for us, it was college all the way. Sorry for the chapter!
TPM posted:Old timer posted:Thanks for all the great replies. The couple replies that stick out is money left for 2017=0%, 2018=0%, 2019=30%, 2020=70%. The other is pitchers is where the money is spent. So my 2019 RHP looks like it would be best to commit fairly soon.
30%? Plus academic money? I wouldnt take my pitcher off the market for that!!!
What people fail to realize is that if a coach wants you, they will always find the money.
They just dont want you to know that.
I was literally just told this exact same thing by a Big 10 coach yesterday, when asking for some advice about the risk/reward of taking an offer early. His opinion for my 2019 was to play the invite-only showcases he's already signed up for, be seen by as many coaches as possible and enjoy the process. Then if that early offer still makes the most sense give it more serious consideration.
Great story YG!!
I say do it if it makes sense for you but my son did it the fall of his Jr year and de-committed that next summer. We got caught up. I'll take that blame. Everyone we talked to said take it. Waiting is probably the best advice you can heed, early commitment is a one sided deal for the school. As a side note, when my son wanted to decommit...i feared the "stigma" that comes with that. We talked for a long time about that phone call. The last thing i said to him was "You have to be ready for no one to offer you." He said he was willing to bet on himself and walk on if necessary. It all worked out but man, to have had this board and advice of all these awesome folks would have been nice.
Best of luck to you and your son!
Excellent post, youngun! You speak truth!
TPM posted:NotThatGuy posted:TPM posted:30%? Plus academic money? I wouldnt take my pitcher off the market for that!!!
Did that poster mean 30% of his allotted scholarship money was left, not 30% scholarship to player?Oh ok, but 30% left for what then?
Let's do very simple hypothetical: Total Cost to attend: $30,000. # of total scholarships: 11.7. Total scholarship money out of Baseball budget: (30,000 X 11.7) = $351,000. Attrition and graduation 1 year out = 0 (all $351,000 accounted for with incoming and retained players); 2 years out = 0 (all $351,000 accounted for with incoming and retained players); 3 years out = 30% (70% or $245,700 accounted for with incoming 'committed' and retained players.
So at a 3 year out recruiting budget the money is reduced to $105,300 spread across the 27 man roster at minimum 25%. Let's say the program has 16 players on scholarship at 50% ($240,000) and is adding 11 players, all 11 could be awarded $10,000 (33%) of Cost to Attend.
The whole key to this financial consideration is the amount of full scholarships the school funds. Davidson, for instance, is said to be funded for no more than 5 full scholarships. Most Power 5 schools, I assume, have full funding for all 11.7 scholarships.
NTGSon was recruited by some D1s because his GPA and test scores were in the top 1-2% nationally and they could fund him almost 100% on academic monies - no athletic money, hence no impact on their budget, and no financial risk if he turned out to be a dud.
TPM posted:Old timer posted:Thanks for all the great replies. The couple replies that stick out is money left for 2017=0%, 2018=0%, 2019=30%, 2020=70%. The other is pitchers is where the money is spent. So my 2019 RHP looks like it would be best to commit fairly soon.
30%? Plus academic money? I wouldnt take my pitcher off the market for that!!!
What people fail to realize is that if a coach wants you, they will always find the money.
They just dont want you to know that.
Recently heard of a kid getting a 100% offer in his senior year. Obviously, a special talent but the money was available.
NTG,
Thank you for that lesson. I get it but many dont.
A player should never commit because they are afraid there will be no money left. There are other ways to get your education paid for, as you pointed out.
I put up a hypothetical example in a post earlier in the thread hoping people with more knowledge than I could take a guess as to how a Coach's recruiting budget is shaped at the end of this summer (2017) vs ten years ago.
Forget dollars, but just scholarships. Assume the school is a D1 that has a realistic chance of hosting a regional in the next couple of years (maybe 32-36 schools?). That coach has already made some verbal commitments to players, as well as incoming class that has signed NLI's. I am postulating that by year, a coach's uncommitted budget for scholarships for the four classes of 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 are zero, zero, 30% and 70% by the end of this summer. Anyone else care to guess, or hopefully put forth an educated guess? Can anyone put forth an educated guess for what it was at some point in the past?
This is on average, understanding that players get drafted, get injured, give up baseball or transfer.
As I have said before recruiting is a skill and the best know how to get it right.
But i love the speculation on how some have it figured out.
TPM posted:As I have said before recruiting is a skill and the best know how to get it right.
But i love the speculation on how some have it figured out.
Care to speculate on the budgets by year?
Go44dad posted:TPM posted:As I have said before recruiting is a skill and the best know how to get it right.
But i love the speculation on how some have it figured out.
Care to speculate on the budgets by year?
How would I know that. How would anyone know? Do you know who is on scholarship and who is not? Who got academic and who didn't? Just understand that coaches dont run out of money.
Go44dad posted:I put up a hypothetical example in a post earlier in the thread hoping people with more knowledge than I could take a guess as to how a Coach's recruiting budget is shaped at the end of this summer (2017) vs ten years ago.
Forget dollars, but just scholarships. Assume the school is a D1 that has a realistic chance of hosting a regional in the next couple of years (maybe 32-36 schools?). That coach has already made some verbal commitments to players, as well as incoming class that has signed NLI's. I am postulating that by year, a coach's uncommitted budget for scholarships for the four classes of 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 are zero, zero, 30% and 70% by the end of this summer. Anyone else care to guess, or hopefully put forth an educated guess? Can anyone put forth an educated guess for what it was at some point in the past?
This is on average, understanding that players get drafted, get injured, give up baseball or transfer.
I'm not smart enough to take a good guess on this one, Go44, ... wouldn't be surprised if your current numbers are pretty close. But I do think there is a tremendous degree of fluidity to those numbers, which sort of offsets the argument a bit. I think some coaches will hold out and keep an emergency stash when they can. And, heck, there have been plenty of recent threads outlining stories of returning players being told their money for next year is going to be used "elsewhere". I know too many of them personally. Well, there it is... money available when there was none. And now that four year deals are becoming more common at the power schools (I think?), can the coaches be more creative with the promise of more "make-up" money on the back end?
I agree this is a primary driver in compelling a player/parent to accept/commit early. The money will be gone. If it is the right school, take it. If you don't take it, they will find another very good player that will. But, on the other hand, if you are the player they thought you were and still available later, quite often they can find a way to come up with the money even if it isn't there at the moment. Still, it's Risk vs Reward. Will THIS school be able to come up with the money later? Is THIS school the right one? Is THIS school and THIS offer going to be your best? If I don't take it, will I be left with far less appealing options?
I loved Younggun's story. But I'm sure there are plenty of similar stories where the happy ending doesn't happen like it did for him. VERY few will have that event with 50 college RC's and pro scouts there primarily to see THEM. His remark rings true, though...
"If your kid has the tools, the schools will find the money if they really want you. If you get that offer and say yes as a 9th or even 10th grader, you better go into it with eyes wide open. He schools have all, not some but ALL, the leverage. Once you say yes, you are essentially off the market. If things change for you at the school over the next year or so, now you are scrambling for a spot."
Even with all the great info and insight available on this site, there most often are no easy answers and everyone's situation is different. Even if you are able to determine, early in the process, where your kid's tools will play, that is just one of many steps, many decisions, often many things out of your control.
I HATE things out of my control