What drills do you use to teach a compact swing? I'm looking to improve my teams bat quickness. Some kids respond to different things, so all replies are welcome.
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How compact do you mean? I have a compact swing but seem to hit everything off the end of the bat.
You need a swing that's short in the back, and long in the front. The swing doesn't stay compact for too long, just at the start. Anyway for a drill there's the fence drill, but that might create too short of a swing, and you won't get any extension with the drill.
I think the key to a compact swing is bringing the back elbow in, it pulls the hands in toward the back elbow and creates a short tight arc to the ball. You can practice this by swinging with a batting glove or a towel in your back armpit. The glove shouldn't fall out until the followthrough when the arms reach full extension and form the 'V' (unless your swinging at outside pitches where the back elbow needs to cast out a bit). Hope that helps.
You need a swing that's short in the back, and long in the front. The swing doesn't stay compact for too long, just at the start. Anyway for a drill there's the fence drill, but that might create too short of a swing, and you won't get any extension with the drill.
I think the key to a compact swing is bringing the back elbow in, it pulls the hands in toward the back elbow and creates a short tight arc to the ball. You can practice this by swinging with a batting glove or a towel in your back armpit. The glove shouldn't fall out until the followthrough when the arms reach full extension and form the 'V' (unless your swinging at outside pitches where the back elbow needs to cast out a bit). Hope that helps.
Work on shortening the swing. the beggest problem is that young players want to swing hard and long. When they do the big problem is pulling their head off. It is not how hard you swing but how quick you get the bat into the hitting zone and when you roll your wrist. One thing that I did to help accomplish this was to place a stool with a tee or cone to the left of a righthander and the right of a left hander . They had to shorten their swing as to not hit. this would encourage the rolling of the wrist in the hitting area.
Compact is short radius, wide base. Short radius is launching with the lead elbow bent.
You can teach it quickly. Put a bat down and have the kid put his feet at either end. Pick up the bat and put it back by rotating the shoulders inward until the lead elbow is behind the belly button. Take a 2-3 inch stride and keep the elbow there until the hip rotation moves it.
We do this with a Hands Back Hitter putting the bat 2-3 inches from the string. It takes one minute to teach with the above drill. We used it at Auburn University Youth Camp successfully on 107 kids. Please don't roll the wrist in the hitting area.....make sure the hips lead through contact......don't mention hands and wrist until they learn hip/shoulder separation
www.swingbuster.com Endorsed by Mike Epstein
You can teach it quickly. Put a bat down and have the kid put his feet at either end. Pick up the bat and put it back by rotating the shoulders inward until the lead elbow is behind the belly button. Take a 2-3 inch stride and keep the elbow there until the hip rotation moves it.
We do this with a Hands Back Hitter putting the bat 2-3 inches from the string. It takes one minute to teach with the above drill. We used it at Auburn University Youth Camp successfully on 107 kids. Please don't roll the wrist in the hitting area.....make sure the hips lead through contact......don't mention hands and wrist until they learn hip/shoulder separation
www.swingbuster.com Endorsed by Mike Epstein
OK Donny, I'm not the brightest star in the sky so could you clarify the drill a little further? I'm having problems picturing it....
Gladly, had some 12 yo players jacking bombs today. I'll be honest...Mike Epstein is right. Hitting is about getting into the torque position in time to swing the bat. Coaching is exploring effective ways to teach the torque position.
This one works. First of all getting a wide base is essential to working toward the learning the torque position.
Deemphasis of the arms and hands is also a must to teach torque. True torque is the hips launching the shoulders as a unit. until kids learn this feel don't bother too much with the rest. I do find having the bat in the 45 degree plane helps to transfer energy and get on plane with the pitch.
Here is what we do...
Lay the bat down on the ground pointing to the pitcher 2-3 inches from the string. Now put a foot at each end. Wider bases make for short strides every time. Shorter strides make better balance and reduce the need mentally to use forward motion to launch the bat.
Put the bat back with shoulder rotation. The key is starting with two eye contact on the pitcher and keep it there. Next rotate the lead shoulder under the chin and internally rotate the rear elbow higher and around behind the body. Do this with no arm or hand action.
If you do this you have formed an x angle in the ready position....shoulders closed and hips on line.
take a 2 inch stride onto the string and keep the shoulders loaded as the front foot lands the stride on line but opening the lead foot up 45 degrees.
I watch the lead elbow relative to the players belly button. I show them using this and teach them what and how shoulder load is accomplished. Now we say keep the elbow there until the front foot gets down. BOOM...the rest is automatic.
This one works. First of all getting a wide base is essential to working toward the learning the torque position.
Deemphasis of the arms and hands is also a must to teach torque. True torque is the hips launching the shoulders as a unit. until kids learn this feel don't bother too much with the rest. I do find having the bat in the 45 degree plane helps to transfer energy and get on plane with the pitch.
Here is what we do...
Lay the bat down on the ground pointing to the pitcher 2-3 inches from the string. Now put a foot at each end. Wider bases make for short strides every time. Shorter strides make better balance and reduce the need mentally to use forward motion to launch the bat.
Put the bat back with shoulder rotation. The key is starting with two eye contact on the pitcher and keep it there. Next rotate the lead shoulder under the chin and internally rotate the rear elbow higher and around behind the body. Do this with no arm or hand action.
If you do this you have formed an x angle in the ready position....shoulders closed and hips on line.
take a 2 inch stride onto the string and keep the shoulders loaded as the front foot lands the stride on line but opening the lead foot up 45 degrees.
I watch the lead elbow relative to the players belly button. I show them using this and teach them what and how shoulder load is accomplished. Now we say keep the elbow there until the front foot gets down. BOOM...the rest is automatic.
Swingbuster...outstanding explanation. I can see it right in front of me. I would add a couple of things (not as technical) that I have found helps a player develop a more compact swing.
1. Choke bat 1 inch above knob. Don't care what level we talking, this will give better control of the bat during the swing, causing a more direct line to the contact point.
2. I find some players are more successful using a flat bat approach. Before pitch is released, rest bat on the shoulder, parallel to the ground. As pitch starts to bring arm forward, simply push the hands up a couple of inches so that bat is raised off of shoulder.
1. Choke bat 1 inch above knob. Don't care what level we talking, this will give better control of the bat during the swing, causing a more direct line to the contact point.
2. I find some players are more successful using a flat bat approach. Before pitch is released, rest bat on the shoulder, parallel to the ground. As pitch starts to bring arm forward, simply push the hands up a couple of inches so that bat is raised off of shoulder.
Larry...I like flatter bats too...
Push the hands up could be said as "rotate the shoulders a little more".I am careful with saying hands because the last thing to move back is the first to move forward. Mentioning hands in the trigger can cause them to pull at the knob with their hands and lose the hip/shoulder connection at early launch( or get the hands ahead of the hips).It is really a fine line hear but a very important one that can make huge differences in mechanics.
Push the hands up could be said as "rotate the shoulders a little more".I am careful with saying hands because the last thing to move back is the first to move forward. Mentioning hands in the trigger can cause them to pull at the knob with their hands and lose the hip/shoulder connection at early launch( or get the hands ahead of the hips).It is really a fine line hear but a very important one that can make huge differences in mechanics.
Swingbuster,
I am very interested in your drill. My son is way to active with his hands and as a result he has no power...Additional, his swing is not level. If he gets under the ball, result is popup to 1B; if he is on top of the ball, slow grounder to SS. If he is early, pop fly to LF; late, slower grounder.
With your comments below, what is the point of the "string" and are you saying for the batter to straddle the bat so that the batter has about 33" distance between his feet.
"Lay the bat down on the ground pointing to the pitcher 2-3 inches from the string. Now put a foot at each end. Wider bases make for short strides every time. Shorter strides make better balance and reduce the need mentally to use forward motion to launch the bat."
My son is a 6' tall 15 yr old, but he weighs only 135lbs and still growing taller. I am thinking that as he gains weight (and strength) he will overcome the loop in his swing. Your drill looks like it will re-enforce the important use of his mid-section for power.
I am very interested in your drill. My son is way to active with his hands and as a result he has no power...Additional, his swing is not level. If he gets under the ball, result is popup to 1B; if he is on top of the ball, slow grounder to SS. If he is early, pop fly to LF; late, slower grounder.
With your comments below, what is the point of the "string" and are you saying for the batter to straddle the bat so that the batter has about 33" distance between his feet.
"Lay the bat down on the ground pointing to the pitcher 2-3 inches from the string. Now put a foot at each end. Wider bases make for short strides every time. Shorter strides make better balance and reduce the need mentally to use forward motion to launch the bat."
My son is a 6' tall 15 yr old, but he weighs only 135lbs and still growing taller. I am thinking that as he gains weight (and strength) he will overcome the loop in his swing. Your drill looks like it will re-enforce the important use of his mid-section for power.
Thanks for the replies. Sorry though, I just can't get what you're drill is. I tried it too. I think it's something that is clear if it's seen. Is there any video of this? Does Epstien's program have video in it? Or is there a video I can purchase? If I could just see it.....
Thanks.
Thanks.
Give me your physical address and I will burn you a copy of the new CD and send it to you.
donnybstr@aol.com
donnybstr@aol.com
A2000,
I am 6 1" I use a 34 inches Swiftstik for the drill . I put my lead foot about 3-4 inches from the end...so that statement is close. Go in the yard and don't tell him anything and soft toss him some plastic balls and tell him to hit them far. Tell him to hold his finish and measure the distance between his feet and report it back and lets see.
you can see the string popper at www swingbuster.com and see a download clip...warning these kids are new at it.
I am 6 1" I use a 34 inches Swiftstik for the drill . I put my lead foot about 3-4 inches from the end...so that statement is close. Go in the yard and don't tell him anything and soft toss him some plastic balls and tell him to hit them far. Tell him to hold his finish and measure the distance between his feet and report it back and lets see.
you can see the string popper at www swingbuster.com and see a download clip...warning these kids are new at it.
"You need a swing that's short in the back, and long in the front."
Wrong!!!........Hitters need EFFICIENT swings.......Bat qickness and proper technique make a swing EFFICIENT......The hips should move the legs........Not the other way around.....
Short or long are not the cues you wanna concentrate on......And, batspeed after ball contact is useless......In fact, it is a sign of ineficiency in the swing.....
Wrong!!!........Hitters need EFFICIENT swings.......Bat qickness and proper technique make a swing EFFICIENT......The hips should move the legs........Not the other way around.....
Short or long are not the cues you wanna concentrate on......And, batspeed after ball contact is useless......In fact, it is a sign of ineficiency in the swing.....
BlueDog, this is the first time (I think) that I agree with you and I quote "you need a swing that is short in the back and long in the front". You are right on.
Dwill, do I need to explain to you what quotation marks are?
Are you always incoherent, or just sometimes?
Are you always incoherent, or just sometimes?
"Wrong!!!........Hitters need EFFICIENT swings.......Bat qickness and proper technique make a swing EFFICIENT"
Short in back, long in front creates bat quickness, and is proper technique, which is EFFICIENT. What's wrong with the cue?
"Short or long are not the cues you wanna concentrate on" Tell that to Mark McGwire. His quote in the book The Complete Book of Hitting Faults and Fixes "You want to be as short to the ball as possible with a long extension through the baseball. Keeping your bat moving through the ball after contact is what helps to get your entire body into hitting the ball" Sounds efficient to me.
Short in back, long in front creates bat quickness, and is proper technique, which is EFFICIENT. What's wrong with the cue?
"Short or long are not the cues you wanna concentrate on" Tell that to Mark McGwire. His quote in the book The Complete Book of Hitting Faults and Fixes "You want to be as short to the ball as possible with a long extension through the baseball. Keeping your bat moving through the ball after contact is what helps to get your entire body into hitting the ball" Sounds efficient to me.
Underground, actually a longer bat arc in the back with good bat quickness is how MLB'ers swing, including McGwire.......The longer the arc of the bat in back, the more power the batter will have as long as his bat quickness is adequate........And, as long as he is developing the longer arc properly, as in efficiently..
Bat quickness is getting the bat to the plane the hitter will swing the bat on......A longer arc before getting to the plane allows a faster batspeed........Again, as long as it all happens efficiently..
The hitter should release all his built-up batspeed at ball contact........The follow-through should be merely the bat coasting to a stop..
It's common knowledge these days that many great hitters don't have a clue why they were so good..Look at film of McGwire......The way he included his entire body to hit a ball had nothing to do with a follow-through.......He had an efficient swing to ball contact..
Bat quickness is getting the bat to the plane the hitter will swing the bat on......A longer arc before getting to the plane allows a faster batspeed........Again, as long as it all happens efficiently..
The hitter should release all his built-up batspeed at ball contact........The follow-through should be merely the bat coasting to a stop..
It's common knowledge these days that many great hitters don't have a clue why they were so good..Look at film of McGwire......The way he included his entire body to hit a ball had nothing to do with a follow-through.......He had an efficient swing to ball contact..
Most good hitters have no idea what they are doing--it just comes naturally, just look at Manny -----
For this reason most great hitters are not good instructors---they hit--they do not teach
For this reason most great hitters are not good instructors---they hit--they do not teach
If you look at Bonds however, his swing is noticeably shorter compared to Mac's, and so far he hasn't been dinged for steroids or anything either. I think it depends on the hitter and what his body is capable of doing. What the short back-long-front means is that the hitter starts the swing with his hands close to the body-even Big Mac does, and during the follow-through-like you said- the bat's momentum finishes the swing, the momentum is what pulls and casts the hands out from the body during the swing.
Also your def'n' of bat quickness "Bat quickness is getting the bat to the plane the hitter will swing the bat on" I thought bat "quickness" is the speed of the bat, and how fast it travels. I think your def'n' is more of a def'n for how to make solid contact. Because if you get the bat on the right plane-the same plane as the incoming pitch-the bat has to hit the ball, unless you're way too early or late.
Also your def'n' of bat quickness "Bat quickness is getting the bat to the plane the hitter will swing the bat on" I thought bat "quickness" is the speed of the bat, and how fast it travels. I think your def'n' is more of a def'n for how to make solid contact. Because if you get the bat on the right plane-the same plane as the incoming pitch-the bat has to hit the ball, unless you're way too early or late.
Underground, you are confusing "bat quickness" with "batspeed".........Two different terms altogether..........
Bat quickness is what makes hitters (falsley) believe they have a short swing in the back......Quick gives the impression of short and compact......Batspeed determines how far the ball will travel......The longer the arc, the higher the batspeed......
Bat quickness is what makes hitters (falsley) believe they have a short swing in the back......Quick gives the impression of short and compact......Batspeed determines how far the ball will travel......The longer the arc, the higher the batspeed......
" the longer the arc, the higher the batspeed" how is that??? simple physics would disprove that theory. bat speed is simply the speed in which the bat gets through the contact area. how does a longer arc improve the bat speed?? if a car is going 60 mph for 100 yds or for 300 yds it is still going 60mph. i am confused??
Actually physics prove that a longer arc can provide more power although I'm not the right mathematician to lay it out.
I can point out a couple real life examples that might mean something to you.
The first is that's the reason why longer drivers can hit further that is as long as you can still make proper contact with a larger club.
A second example is creating a human whip of roller skaters. The person on the end is experiencing a little more g force than the first on in line. I hope this helps.
As far as giving swing instructions, it's tough enough for a knowledgeable person to provide in person, let alone in a paragraph or two.
I have found the website batspeed.com to do as good a job as anyone to provide some good instruction and explanation. Click on "swing mechanics".
I can point out a couple real life examples that might mean something to you.
The first is that's the reason why longer drivers can hit further that is as long as you can still make proper contact with a larger club.
A second example is creating a human whip of roller skaters. The person on the end is experiencing a little more g force than the first on in line. I hope this helps.
As far as giving swing instructions, it's tough enough for a knowledgeable person to provide in person, let alone in a paragraph or two.
I have found the website batspeed.com to do as good a job as anyone to provide some good instruction and explanation. Click on "swing mechanics".
Feel free to post on their discussion board your thoughts on the long arc. I'm sure you'll get some imformed answers. I go to the sight all the time and find it very useful, backed up with recearch so you can't prove anything wrong with the rotational mechanics the site talks about.
A longer arc has the potential to provide a bit higher bat speed at contact. A more compact swing takes less time to reach the contact point. A compact swing leads to more consistent contact. If a player has power and a compact swing they can hit for power and average. Barry Bonds is a good example.
There have been more than a few players with big, long swings who hit a fair amount of home runs but had low batting averages. Dave Kingman is probably a good example of this type of hitter.
There have been more than a few players with big, long swings who hit a fair amount of home runs but had low batting averages. Dave Kingman is probably a good example of this type of hitter.
CADad
If the contact point is inside the lead foot( where you would tee up a golf ball) where most clips show MLB players hit then the swing length can depend on the launch point.
THe best hitters c-ock the bat and load the shoulders and hit it somewhere between the balls of their feet IMO. Total bat travel can be just as far as those that claim to be short to long but it is harder to measure when it is eliptical
If the contact point is inside the lead foot( where you would tee up a golf ball) where most clips show MLB players hit then the swing length can depend on the launch point.
THe best hitters c-ock the bat and load the shoulders and hit it somewhere between the balls of their feet IMO. Total bat travel can be just as far as those that claim to be short to long but it is harder to measure when it is eliptical
The following is not fact: It's just a Fungo theory:
The problem we encounter in the long swing is the inability to exert the same force on the bat with the hands due to the change of the body's fulcrum points. If you could exert exactly the same force on the bat with a longer arc I agree you would see an increase in batspeed but even then the elapsed time from the start of the swing to the bat exiting the hitting zone would be significantly longer with the long arc vs. the player with the compact swing because of the greater distance the bat has to travel. The body, including the bat, can be compared to a machine consisting of a series of ropes, pulleys, and levers. As one changes angles and fulcrum points, we either lose or increase force or lose or increase speed depending on the configuration of the machine (body).
Keeping the hands close but not too close, (this causes us to be "jammed") to the body allows us to exert maximum force on the bat. This maximum force is transferred to the bat and actually increases bat speed. This compact swing is quicker and also allows us more time to adjust and react to the pitch. Another weakness of the long swing is the inherent loss of the torso’s ability to contribute to the power in the swing. If we do this, we are separating the arms away from the body and therefore we lose power.
Fungo
The problem we encounter in the long swing is the inability to exert the same force on the bat with the hands due to the change of the body's fulcrum points. If you could exert exactly the same force on the bat with a longer arc I agree you would see an increase in batspeed but even then the elapsed time from the start of the swing to the bat exiting the hitting zone would be significantly longer with the long arc vs. the player with the compact swing because of the greater distance the bat has to travel. The body, including the bat, can be compared to a machine consisting of a series of ropes, pulleys, and levers. As one changes angles and fulcrum points, we either lose or increase force or lose or increase speed depending on the configuration of the machine (body).
Keeping the hands close but not too close, (this causes us to be "jammed") to the body allows us to exert maximum force on the bat. This maximum force is transferred to the bat and actually increases bat speed. This compact swing is quicker and also allows us more time to adjust and react to the pitch. Another weakness of the long swing is the inherent loss of the torso’s ability to contribute to the power in the swing. If we do this, we are separating the arms away from the body and therefore we lose power.
Fungo
i agree that if you create the same speed with a longer arc then you create more POWER. the problem is that most lose batspeed if the arc gets too long. this is where the philosophies start to doffer. compact swing on the backside- VS- a lot of rotation (cocking) of the shoulders etc,) keeping the hands inside the ball is the main key in my opinion...
"A more compact swing takes less time to reach the contact point."
CADad, not neccessarily......A long, yet efficient, swing is quicker than a compact, inefficient swing..
CADad, not neccessarily......A long, yet efficient, swing is quicker than a compact, inefficient swing..
how is a long swing quicker than a quick compact swing. when you have a long swing you have to start it earlier= trouble with the offspeed stuff, and not getting to track the ball as long to see if it is a ball or a strike.
fungo i wish i was as eloquent as you are when typing your idea. i agree with what you are saying, and tried to express the same idea but i fall short with the writing skills
fungo i wish i was as eloquent as you are when typing your idea. i agree with what you are saying, and tried to express the same idea but i fall short with the writing skills
Catamount, do you understand how torque is created in the swing?
Physics; F=ma Force = mass x acceleration
Work= Force x Distance
If a batter can use the same forcethen the longer hand path may generate more velocity.
However when the hands cast away from the body there is greater inertia requiring more force to generate speed...and the hands are further from the eyes making it more difficult to control the bat.
To optimize the function of bat speed and control is the main problem of hitting.
Steve
"A more compact swing takes less time to reach the contact point."
In general I could agree with Catamount on this. However the key is to reach the contact point with some power behind it.
A long “efficient” swing can create good power through torque as Bluedog points out. If we were driving a golf ball, then a long efficient swing might be the way to go.
Hitting good pitching with a “long” swing is a different story. As was already pointed out, there are advantages to initiating your swing as late as possible, in particular so you can make adjustments to hit a pitch that is moving or to adjust to speed.
Combine your thoughts and you have the most productive swing. Stay back on the ball, do not bar your lead arm but be compact to the ball, do so in a way that before contact, you end up in the same place you would have if you would have started with a long swing.
There’s no question as several of you have already alluded to, rotating around an axis creates the torque that allows players of all size to hit for power.
In general I could agree with Catamount on this. However the key is to reach the contact point with some power behind it.
A long “efficient” swing can create good power through torque as Bluedog points out. If we were driving a golf ball, then a long efficient swing might be the way to go.
Hitting good pitching with a “long” swing is a different story. As was already pointed out, there are advantages to initiating your swing as late as possible, in particular so you can make adjustments to hit a pitch that is moving or to adjust to speed.
Combine your thoughts and you have the most productive swing. Stay back on the ball, do not bar your lead arm but be compact to the ball, do so in a way that before contact, you end up in the same place you would have if you would have started with a long swing.
There’s no question as several of you have already alluded to, rotating around an axis creates the torque that allows players of all size to hit for power.
If I have an efficient longer swing and you have an efficient shorter swing, I will have the quicker swing..
The extra torque I create will make my swing quicker than yours..I can actually wait longer than you to swing giving me more time than you to recognize the pitch.....
Techniques such as using the hands properly, scapula loading, and X-factor stretch will enable me to have the quicker swing.....I will have more quickness and a greater batspeed than your shorter swing....
Great hitters do not have the short swing you think they have......They have bat quickness which you believe to be a short swing..The key is efficiency, not short.......
The extra torque I create will make my swing quicker than yours..I can actually wait longer than you to swing giving me more time than you to recognize the pitch.....
Techniques such as using the hands properly, scapula loading, and X-factor stretch will enable me to have the quicker swing.....I will have more quickness and a greater batspeed than your shorter swing....
Great hitters do not have the short swing you think they have......They have bat quickness which you believe to be a short swing..The key is efficiency, not short.......
Rollerman, the hands don't cast away from the body in an efficient swing, whether it is long or short......
The main problem with hitters is not batspeed, but rather bat quickness.........
The main problem with hitters is not batspeed, but rather bat quickness.........
The fewer parts in a machine the fewer things can go wrong. And if something happens to break down the easier to find the broken part. You guys are so technical its ridiculous. Have a clue and quit trying to impress someone by sounding like a bunch of lab geeks. It sounds like some of you really have never played you only think you can teach something you have never really experienced. Kids that can hit can just hit. They have simple mechanics that are sound and true. Kids that cant hit unfortunately end up with someone like some of you trying to help them and then its really over. Go back and read your posts. Write them down and then go find a 14 year old kid that is struggling at the plate and teach him this stuff. Im sure he will pick it right up and be fine.
"Kids that can hit can just hit."
Coach May, this just isn't so.....
I work with kids who supposedly can't hit all the time.....They come from teams just like yours......They come from coaches just like you.....
Know what?....Come to find out, they can hit after all!
Coach May, this just isn't so.....
I work with kids who supposedly can't hit all the time.....They come from teams just like yours......They come from coaches just like you.....
Know what?....Come to find out, they can hit after all!
Read it again. Kids that can hit can just hit. I didnt say kids that can not hit can just not hit. Ive seen kids that have never known what it was like not to be able to hit. They see the ball and hit the ball. How do you know what kids in my program do and dont do? I have also seen kids that have never known what it was like to hit. Giving them some basic sound fundemantals that they can understand and repeat over and over and over gives them a foundation they can build on and help them be able to have some success. Read the whole post and get it right please.
I always have the same question for hitting gurus.........who have you taught and where are they at? If I can ever find a guy who has been given credit for developing some fine hitters that have gone on to College ball and Pro ball, I will salute him. I have asked the question many times, but have never received a positive answer. If a hitting coach is really good, he should have developed a few real good hitters, otherwise it is just talk......no substance.
Bluedog,
The only "torque" you create is in your posts.
LOL
Thats about it IMO.
The only "torque" you create is in your posts.
LOL
Thats about it IMO.
BBScout you hit the nail on the head. We have had some really good hitters over the years come through our program. We have never taken credit for their success because quite honestly we had nothing really to claim. The only thing we can take credit for is the fact that we didnt let our ego get in the way and try to change them into guys that could not hit. If you listen to some of the people on this site you can tell that they are text book baseball guys. They try to convince people that they know the game by mumbo jumbo lingo. All this complicated jargon is garbage intended to mask the fact that they have no real baseball experience to draw upon in the first place.
