Condensed schedule problems

Would Auggie be saying that if his team was playing better than it is?

The cold weather teams have been playing this type of schedule for years---the warm weather teams just need to get used to it

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Originally posted by Infield08:
Quoted from a Q&A with UT Head Coach Auggie Garrido in this morning's paper:

No one is good enough to go weeks without having one practice.

I think what he's missing is one of the main reasons for the change, to level the playing field. In the past the southern schools could start earlier, spread their games out more, get their top starters more starts, and fill in the off days with more practice. Now all teams are subject to the same schedule.

The one thing that hasn't really been talked about, is how the schedule affects the less studious of the athletes. High level academic institutions that could get below marginal academic players in based on their BA or ERA, may now find themselves with problems due to the more stringint academic discipline required to maintain eligibility. Augie is right, it may hurt some kids, but only the ones that don't step up and take care of business or were over their heads academically in the first place.

Many coaches at higher level academics may be looking at a future where their recruiting base is whittled down substantially. They'll be forced to recruit a profile that more closely resembles those of the general student body, and narrows the gap for admissions standards between athletes/non athletes.

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The one thing that hasn't really been talked about, is how the schedule affects the less studious of the athletes.

Aren't all athletes -- studious or not -- hurt by these new rules as they now have fewer opportunities to attend class and hear lectures?

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Originally posted by Infield08:

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The one thing that hasn't really been talked about, is how the schedule affects the less studious of the athletes.

Aren't all athletes -- studious or not -- hurt by these new rules as they now have fewer opportunities to attend class and hear lectures?

No, only the athletes that are forced to change because of the rules. Northern athletes are unaffected, as TR said, because their schedules remain unaffected.

When are the northern schools going to build hockey rinks for the southern schools "to level the playing field?"

Its a stupid rule change that is not good for the academic side of things whether someone has been doing it or not. You have my sympathies for having gone through this alone before, but it is a bad rule.

Simple solution: Don't play 60+ games.

The University of Northern Colorado was in Cape Girardeau a couple weeks ago. Their first 26 games are on the road. Playing Friday, Saturday, Sunday and then again on Tuesday or Wednesday I'd be shocked if they make it home more than one day a week and it's probably shortened due to travel!

Return to "student" in student-athlete.

If the amount of games in a condensed season is impacting academics, the NCAA should probably reduce the number of games. Of course the NCAA never talks about the impact on academics from the never ending football and basketball seasons.

It seems that it is a "stupid" rule change only in the eyes of the warm weather schools

Like I say the Northern schools have been doing this for years now---they would open up in the south against teams with 20 games under their belts

At the end of the day all the teams played the same amount of games with the Northern teams staring 20 games behind in terms of games played

C'mon you guys in the warm weather---learn to adapt--it aint that hard--if we in the North can do it and make it work, as we have for years, so can you guys

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It seems that it is a "stupid" rule change only in the eyes of the warm weather schools

Not stupid -- just unwise from the point of academics. It's kind of hard to learn much when you are never in class to hear lectures or listen to the give-and-take of various classmates.

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Its a stupid rule change that is not good for the academic side of things whether someone has been doing it or not. You have my sympathies for having gone through this alone before, but it is a bad rule.

Lets make life more miserable for everyone - ya that is a good idea - not. The compressed schedule seems to be worse for Northern schools - not better. In the past, they did not wait until the Southern schools played 20 games, the better Northern programs were out playing weekend tournaments in late January and early February. The main disadvantage they had was not being able to practice outdoors and I agree that is a disadvantage. On the flip side, instead of being able to spread 56 games over longer periods of time, the Northern schools now have it even harder for the student.

Of course, it is harder for the warm-weather student as well now, but as is the case this year and in the past, the warm-weather schools are playing the majority of their games at home right now. For those schools that have lost games to rainouts, have fun making them up. Doubt your AD's will sponser a new plane trip down to Florida to make the game up. Thus, the 56 game schedule has already been shortened for many schools. Shortening the schedule is the dumbest idea of all imo but it will be the next thing that is whined about.

So TR, in previous years did you think it was a good idea for your local colleges to play 56 games/5 games per week?

There were other solutions. Reduce the number of games. Extend into the summer (bet that one failed because of the cost of housing the student athletes...in other words $$).

This stuff won't level the playing field. The best players will still head south and the western/southwestern teams will still dominate the CWS.

infielddad

My son played at a warm weather school and even with the additional weeks he was out of school from Thursday to Monday---you know what !--the profs gave them any exams due while they were away in the evening before they left---they had tutors with them---my sons college GPA was higher than his HS GPA and he got his degree in 5 years (redshirt)

We have had a load of players in Northern schools playing what you term a "condensed" schedule but for them it was a regular ( normal) schedule and they all got their degrees

If you want to, and you should all stop crying, you can make it work--- WE HAVE HERE IN THE NORTH !!! IT AIN'T THAT DIFFICULT!!

One of the things we're seeing is that college assistant coaches (scouts) are having a real tough time making it to high school games to scout. It's always been hard, but now it's well nigh impossible.

I suspect that one upshot of this will be an increasing emphasis on what a kid does over the summer and fall, as far as how his recruiting works out.

Let's just make college baseball a worse product. This is the dumbing down of college baseball because God made the north colder than the south/west in the spring time.

The issue is not the later start, it is the fact that the NCAA didn't lengthen the schedule accordingly. Looking at Boyd's World and Warren Nolan, I still don't see a lot of the northern schools in the top 40.

Again, it's not the universal start date, it's the five games a week that are chapping people. It's also the fact that this was done - (haha) to enhance academic performance in the classroom.

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Originally posted by TRhit:
If you want to, and you should all stop crying, you can make it work--- WE HAVE HERE IN THE NORTH !!! IT AIN'T THAT DIFFICULT!!

No crying here...just being "blunt" (don't you like that?) and calling it for what it is, with "no apologies."

Bad rule change. Very bad rule change.

Build us our hockey rinks!

You , guys and gals, are not reading what I said

The Northern schools have been playing a condensed schedule for years---it would be interesting to see comparisons of academics--long schedule to compressed over the past years---As I said before you who are in the warm weather areas need to adjust--The Northern kids have been adapting for years--does that make us better--NO--does make us more flexible--YES

And do not tell me that warm weather teams play only on weekends !!!

Do they not leave to play a weekend serieson Thursday nites every now and then?

Do they not get back late on Sunday nites or early Monday Mornings?

As far as I am concerned the warm weather people can go "chapp themselves" !!

Learn to adapt or is that too difficult for you?

My son use to fly back to school from the East Coast to be at school before New Years so he and his team mates could work out on their own for a week before official practice started

I do not know about others but I learned very early in my young adult life you learn how to adapt and take care of situations as they arose--you didn't cry about things---you ADAPTED---there are some rules you cannot, even though you think you can, change- You cannot always have whipped cream on your ice cream folks--

just baseball


You post doesn't even warrant a response---what does hockey have to do with baseball?

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Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
Simple solution: Don't play 60+ games.

The University of Northern Colorado was in Cape Girardeau a couple weeks ago. Their first 26 games are on the road. Playing Friday, Saturday, Sunday and then again on Tuesday or Wednesday I'd be shocked if they make it home more than one day a week and it's probably shortened due to travel!

Return to "student" in student-athlete.

What about playing later in the year?

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Bulldog 19 quote:
Simple solution: Don't play 60+ games.

For all those complaining about the new dates why not in conjunction with the new start date make it a 45 game schedule. That would be the easiest and fairest fix?

1. Reduces program costs.

2. Students concentrate on being students

3. Reduces stress on pitching staffs

4. More practice time where coaches "teach" the entire team.

No other sport has a 56+ game schedule. Who wrote the rule that the season has to be that long?

Did someone just say "rz1 DUCK"

Come to think of it, rz1, you're not that far from the Dells, are you?

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Originally posted by Infield08:
Come to think of it, rz1, you're not that far from the Dells, are you?

The Dells has been officially proclaimed a suburb of Chicago, we just collect the proceeds. True Wisconsinites have built roads that bypass the area.

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Us Wisconsinites have built roads that bypass the area.

I don't blame you -- I've been there!

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That would be the easiest and fairest fix?

You lost me on that one. Fix what? The Northern schools led by Ohio State argued for a uniform start date and they got it as their "fix." The ramification of that is more games in less time. Now you are suggesting we curb the amount of games to fix the fix? If people are worried about the number of games, send their kids to a D2 or D3 school and I guarantee they will get less games.

The more I think about this subject the more worked up I get. People want things both ways. In many cases, Northern kids stay home to play in front of Mom and Dad and they often get bigger scholarships for doing so. If you live in the North, try getting recruited in the South where I guarantee, nobody knows your name and they are not rushing to throw money at you. There is a price to be paid for playing ball in the south. If that also has its advantages (i.e., the weather), then be my guest and go down there and play. Don't try and legislate something the student and family has in their own power to control.

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Originally posted by justbaseball:
When are the northern schools going to build hockey rinks for the southern schools "to level the playing field?"

I disagree. You're confusing "equality" with "opportunity". Asking southern schools to play hockey, doesn't level the playing field. Having southern AND northern schools playing hockey with the same guidlines (schedule) does.

Having said that, I don't think this rule change will serve it's intended purpose - improve APR. I think academics will suffer in the short term.

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Having said that, I don't think this rule change will serve it's intended purpose - improve APR. I think academics will suffer in the short term.

I didn't hear about APR being the guiding principle for the schedule change. As far as I know, it was done to change the competitive balance in the sport.

Now that we are about 1/4 the way through the season, it appears to me that things have gotten worse for many Northern schools. Outside of Michigan, St. Johns, Missouri, and Wichita State (are those last two even in the North), it looks like many teams have regressed this year. Moreover, I am pretty sure more classes are being missed. It escapes me what has improved.

Actually, one improvement I have seen is for incoming freshman pitchers - their opportunities have gone way up over previous years and that is a good thing I suppose.

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Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
In the past, they did not wait until the Southern schools played 20 games, the better Northern programs were out playing weekend tournaments in late January and early February.

The difference, was that southern schools would be scheduling midweek games where the northern schools couldn't. This resulted in southern schools having the opportunity to play less games per week, while northern schools routinely compacted their schedules into their good weather timeframe.

The net result, was that southern schools used less pitching depth, and had more team practices through the season. For those that want to argue it "dumbs down" southern schools, I have to ask, what is wrong with more players playing?

The playing field is much leveler than before. Northern and southern staff 1 and 2's will now have a similar number of starts, and pitching depth will be equally used. On top of this, all players are now on equal terms for academic pressures.

Is the season too compacted? Well, maybe so. The answer to that is to schedule some fall games and reduce the midweek load during the spring season. If coaches were truly concerned about the student, in student/athlete, they would be doing that instead of giving lipservice to academics to enhance their baseball season. They have the choice to make things better on their kids, let's see which ones do.

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CD quote:
You lost me on that one. Fix what?

I thought these were issues for all teams North and South

1. Reduces program costs.

2. Students concentrate on being students

3. Reduce stress on pitching staffs

4. More practice time where coaches "teach" the entire team.

IMHO the new start date did not fix any problems, but spread them out to affect everyone. The reasons I list above are issues I've heard on this board for years.

Bigger scholarships up north Where did that come from, 11.7 can be divided so many ways.

Unless you are a blue chip, if you live down South your name will not be known up North either.

Yes weather is an advantage down South so what's the problem with a uniform start date. Baseball is the only sport where weather plays a part in preparation for a season , why is it so wrong to make an attempt to level the playing field that is unequal due to an environmental issues? I don't feel what was legislated was the best way to do that. I feel that a later start date with less games would have addressed more issues.

Student and family cannot control weather. Why don't we just draw a line and call it a D1 Northern "kick-dog" Division and the D1 Southern "rules" Division and let the weather decide when you can start. If weather was not a part of the equation, Baseball would have "Power teams/Conferences" all over the country and the level of commitment to the program would be the deciding factor.

Everyone put on their "pretend" hat.......

Let's say hockey was a Americas pastime and it was an outdoor sport for practice and games. Now envision that the South didn't freeze over until February. First practice for the hockey season is December 1, games start January 1. I think our Southern neighbors would be up in arms because the they cannot control the weather, thus cannot be competitive, and I wouldn't blame them one bit.

Stupid if you ask me. Warm weather schools are perceived as having an advantage due to the climate so lets punish them to make it "better" for the northern schools. It doesn't make it "better" for northern schools --- it is designed simply to punish the "warmer" schools so they cannot be as good as they have been in the past. MLB will be affected too. The "warm weather" Dominicans would have MORE of an advantage now that southern US college baseball is being "restricted". Where are you folks coming from? What about tall basketball players? And huge football players. Do we have the mindset that says punish them for having an advantage.

What about college football. Ever see how difficult it is for a southern lineman to practice football in the Baton Rouge, Louisiana heat during fall drills while the northern colleges are blessed with a cool Autumn breeze to practice in? The LSU Tigers don't pitch and moan about the heat --- they tough it out and manage to become national champions in spite of being at a huge climatic disadvantage. The same can be said for Texas, Florida, USC, Miami, Tennessee, Florida State, and Oklahoma.

Instead of messing up college baseball why don't you snowbound northern folks take your frustration out on your northern neighbors by throwing snowballs or hockey pucks at them.

Admitting an advantage, and then denouncing steps to remove said advantage.

Referencing punishment as bad for southern schools, wouldn't the unfairness that has previously existed consist of punishment for northern schools for being in a less temperate climate?

People hate having their advantages taken away from them, wars are started over such. "We are sorry that your circumstances dictate such treatment, we truly are. But it has been this way forever, so we would rather not change because equality will imapct us negatively and cause hardship that our birthright should not enjoy."

I have a question for the college parents, are your students taking a lighter load this spring because of the schedule changes and are they planning on graduating in 4 years or 5?

With baseball scholarships being as paltry as they are if kids have to take lighter loads and extend their educations, it becomes very expensive to go an extra year. Also hearing more about kids planning to take summer classes between high school and freshman year to get a jump on studies. Not a bad idea but I wonder what they are doing about summer ball? I had a conversation recently with someone who's son stopped playing to focus on academics because of the new schedules, has anybody else experience that in their programs? I guess that is more than one question.

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they tough it out and manage to become national champions in spite of being at a huge climatic disadvantage. The same can be said for Texas, Florida, USC, Miami, Tennessee, Florida State, and Oklahoma.

There's a difference between "tough it out" and physically unable to step outside. You can play football in the heat, you can't play baseball in sub-freezing weather. Northern schools tough it out all spring in regard to baseball. Most Northern teams practice and play conference games in 40-50 degree weather until May without betching about it.

Maybe for the good of the game it should be a 2 class system, Southern College ball vs Northern club ball just to make sure those Dominicans don't get a better hand. The hockey example is the baseball mirror image that Southerners can not even envision.

Unless you lived up hear and watched your kids grow up throwing a ball against a wall in the basement 4 months a year and then hear Southern folk tell you to toughen up you couldn't use the other side.

Maybe you guys are right and accept the fact that we are and always will be second class and we should take one for the American team to keep those Dominicans down..

I don't see where a 2 week delay has done anything except cause teams to squeeze in more games per week. Maybe if they'd pushed the start date back 2 MONTHS it would have made the intended difference but to think that 2 weeks has changed ANYTHING as far as the northern teams getting out is laughable. NCAA hard at work again.

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The one thing that hasn't really been talked about, is how the schedule affects the less studious of the athletes. High level academic institutions that could get below marginal academic players in based on their BA or ERA, may now find themselves with problems due to the more stringint academic discipline required to maintain eligibility. Augie is right, it may hurt some kids, but only the ones that don't step up and take care of business or were over their heads academically in the first place.

I think the impact of the compressed schedule on a particular student depends more upon their major then thier academic ability/inclinations. Any kid with a science major requiring labs will suffer not only in missed labs but less time being available on weekends to prep for the labs.

This 2 week delay could be a negotiated deal between both sides and unless you were a fly on the NCAA war room wall, we can only guess.

Many on this site have agreed in the past that these rules don't just happen overnight and also that usually there is a fight involved and the big boys usually get more in the end than they give up. It would be interesting to get the privy details of the original request. My biased opinion says that the Northern schools were asking for a ton, and the big boys down South negotiated down to this pitiful 2 week delay that does nothing more than make everyone miserable and those who initiated the bylaw responsible.

What do I know? I'm no fly on the wall........gravity challeged

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Originally posted by rz1:
This 2 week delay could be a negotiated deal between both sides and unless you were a fly on the NCAA war room wall, we can only guess.

Many on this site have agreed in the past that these rules don't just happen overnight and also that usually there is a fight involved and the big boys usually get more in the end than they give up. It would be interesting to get the privy details of the original request. My biased opinion says that the Northern schools were asking for a ton, and the big boys down South negotiated down to this pitiful 2 week delay that does nothing more than make everyone miserable and those who initiated the bylaw responsible.

What do I know? I'm no fly on the wall........gravity challeged

It will be a pitiful three week delay next year (March 1st start date) and I predict the Northern schools will do even worse than they are this year.

It will be interesting to see how many schools actually get to play 56 game schedules this year. Many schools are now stuffing in 8 or 9 games during spring break. A couple days of bad weather down south and I have no clue how those games will get made up.

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Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

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Having said that, I don't think this rule change will serve it's intended purpose - improve APR. I think academics will suffer in the short term.

I didn't hear about APR being the guiding principle for the schedule change. As far as I know, it was done to change the competitive balance in the sport.

Good point. I probably made a sweeping generalization that the NCAA made the changes that they did to improve the APR. Bad on my part.

I don't believe the NCAA is requiring teams to play 56 games and travel on weekdays. It's what the programs are choosing to do.

I just looked at Vanderbilt's schedule. Every weekday game is either home or within 60 miles except one game. That one game is a night game 130 miles away. Since that game is at the end of the season, a non-conference game and one of 58 scheduled, it will be cancelled unless there are two rainouts.