With all the recent news of the potential "super-conferences" and the shake up of affiliations by schools, how do you think that will affect college baseball into the future?
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Unfortunately, only one thing is certain: conferences will realign without giving baseball any consideration, whatsoever. For example, do you think Pitt and Syracuse are attractive to the ACC because of their baseball programs? Hard to imagine; especially since one of them doesn't even field a team.
Football is the "800-pound gorilla;" and, every once in awhile, the basketball "baboon" pokes his head in and receives a little consideration. Otherwise, everyone else is a "chimp."
Football is the "800-pound gorilla;" and, every once in awhile, the basketball "baboon" pokes his head in and receives a little consideration. Otherwise, everyone else is a "chimp."
Agree with Prepster.
If anything, I think it could hurt college baseball (& other non-revenue sports) because of the increased travel costs.
Maybe we'll see more 'regionally sensible' conferences outside of football/basketball. That is, be in the ACC/SEC/Pac-12 for football and basketball but something else for the others?
If anything, I think it could hurt college baseball (& other non-revenue sports) because of the increased travel costs.
Maybe we'll see more 'regionally sensible' conferences outside of football/basketball. That is, be in the ACC/SEC/Pac-12 for football and basketball but something else for the others?
Just: I hope you are right. For the minor sports this looks like a disaster.
I can't believe I'm actually thinking this but, "Maybe the NCAA ought to step in and align 5 or 6 major conferences that make sense."
I can't believe I'm actually thinking this but, "Maybe the NCAA ought to step in and align 5 or 6 major conferences that make sense."
As far as the ACC goes I know an ACC AD said there would be no partial participants. Either a school is all in with all sports or not in at all.
With the massive amount of money involved, these conference changes do highlight how out of control the current system is. Why is a big problem that some footballers got some cash in exchange for tickets, jerseys, etc while coaches, AD's, college presidents are becoming multi-millionaires from this system?
With the massive amount of money involved, these conference changes do highlight how out of control the current system is. Why is a big problem that some footballers got some cash in exchange for tickets, jerseys, etc while coaches, AD's, college presidents are becoming multi-millionaires from this system?
igball- That's a whole different discussion that could probably garner up a whole second lengthy thread unto itself.
However, for the sake of discussion... http://online.wsj.com/article/...ce=profile_multiline
However, for the sake of discussion... http://online.wsj.com/article/...ce=profile_multiline
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Agree with Prepster.
If anything, I think it could hurt college baseball (& other non-revenue sports) because of the increased travel costs.
I agree but what it really hurts is all athletes that have to travel and miss class and still maintain a GPA to remain eligible.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Maybe we'll see more 'regionally sensible' conferences outside of football/basketball. That is, be in the ACC/SEC/Pac-12 for football and basketball but something else for the others?
I'd like to think that there could be some movement in that direction.
One of my biggest concerns, already, had been that some conferences were growing so large that it was becoming increasingly difficult to create a representative conference schedule; given the framework required by the "weekend series" format.
For example, both the SEC and the ACC had already forced each baseball team to skip a conference opponent each season. With only so many weekends available during the limited college season, the implication of larger football/basketball conferences is that even more conference teams get crossed off the schedule.
When conferences are built around football, forcing baseball to conform to their structures and outsized geography, the result is to create undesirable conditions for baseball. Even though I doubt that we'll ever see it, I'm becoming more and more convinced that baseball and, probably, other "olympic" sports, ought to be organized regionally; like the original conferences.
But Syracuse will have to field a baseball team. Talk about cold early games....
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Just: I hope you are right. For the minor sports this looks like a disaster.
I can't believe I'm actually thinking this but, "Maybe the NCAA ought to step in and align 5 or 6 major conferences that make sense."
Really!?! Wow, that actually is pretty funny.
We may not have a number in our conference, but at least we have a coast...line..... oh wait, nevermind....
I'm still not used to the latest expansion. (for real)
I'm still not used to the latest expansion. (for real)
quote:Originally posted by 55mom:
We may not have a number in our conference, but at least we have a coast...line..... oh wait, nevermind....
I hate when that happens....
JH I was wondering when you were going to bring up the SCAC conference realignment, I know it has been a subject of a lot of discussion lately.
BOF- The SCAC is a DISASTER. The travel costs, combined with the academics (the academic standards for many of the schools in the conference are already extremely high), and the timeframe for the seasons, makes everything a mess.
A friend of mine that pitches at your son's school tells me of 14 hour weekend road trips. And regionals in Oregon??? C'mon.
BSC being playoff eligible will certainly shake things up a bit within the conference as well...not that it would help the realignment ramifications at all (they joined several years ago).
A friend of mine that pitches at your son's school tells me of 14 hour weekend road trips. And regionals in Oregon??? C'mon.
BSC being playoff eligible will certainly shake things up a bit within the conference as well...not that it would help the realignment ramifications at all (they joined several years ago).
quote:With all the recent news of the potential "super-conferences" and the shake up of affiliations by schools, how do you think that will affect college baseball into the future?
I'm probably in the minority here but I don't care what happens in the big conferences. The dollars are huge with TV contractcs, etc and they will probably continue to get bigger as the NCAA pimps for the colleges and universities but offers very little for the student athlete. I'm letting go of any concern for this because it is a run away train that no one wants to stop. The horse has left the barn.
Newtons Law - for every action there is always an opposed or equal reaction. I think the net effect (over the next 10 years) is that you will see some schools/conferences leave the NCAA or possibly other divisions will be created that offer a better student athlete experience overall. For example: I would not be at all surprised to see the D3 schools, Patriot and Ivy create their own version of the NCAA. After all, what is the NCAA really doing for them?
The NCAA was way too one sided in favor of the institutions (not the student), and the formation of these super conferences is putting it over the top with very little regard for the student athlete or their sport. Baseball will survive as it always has, but it is going to be a bumpy road as these conferences try to make a revenue grab.
PS....I'm about to start reading a book called "Beer and Circus" by Murray Sperber that details how Big Time College Athletics is crippling undergraduate education. I'll let you know how it reads, as this looks to be a good time to read this book.
quote:Originally posted by igball:
As far as the ACC goes I know an ACC AD said there would be no partial participants. Either a school is all in with all sports or not in at all.
Locally, there has been a lot of "Should Villanova football move from 1 AA to 1 A?"
As a fan, I ask, "are they nuts?", but if your quote is accurate, and I believe it is, it all makes sense now- It's not about the '1 A Big East football experience'. Villanova has its eye on the ACC.
The ACC will end up a 16-team coference. 2 out of WVU, UConn, and Rutgers will complete the new ACC. This will probably lead to nice neat northern and southern divion alignment-8 schools from VA north and 8 schools from NC south. Honestly, if this should happen, it may work out very well for all sports, including baseball and the other non-revenues.
I read on someone's blog that West Virgina is 'in talks' with the SEC. Perhaps, Miami and Florida State, as well. Many other scenarios are floating around.
If the NCAA permits all of this jostling and 20-team east-west, north-south super conferences, (Captain Obvious says) there will never be a 1 A football playoff.
If the NCAA permits all of this jostling and 20-team east-west, north-south super conferences, (Captain Obvious says) there will never be a 1 A football playoff.
quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
The ACC will end up a 16-team coference. 2 out of WVU, UConn, and Rutgers will complete the new ACC. This will probably lead to nice neat northern and southern divion alignment-8 schools from VA north and 8 schools from NC south. Honestly, if this should happen, it may work out very well for all sports, including baseball and the other non-revenues.
It would make sense for WVU to move to the ACC but all the message boards are saying they are pushing to move to the SEC. That would be a horrible move for them for football. Basketball could still compete but the other sports would get killed - especially baseball. There probably would be more money in the SEC which is why they would try to go there but the better fit would be the ACC.
How would you like to be TCU? You leave and head to a BCS conference just to find out that in your second year it will probably no longer exist.
If the NAIA was smart (assuming they want to grow) they would start courting the D3 and several D2 schools to try and convince them to switch to them.
quote:Originally posted by fenwaysouth:quote:With all the recent news of the potential "super-conferences" and the shake up of affiliations by schools, how do you think that will affect college baseball into the future?
I'm probably in the minority here but I don't care what happens in the big conferences. The dollars are huge with TV contractcs, etc and they will probably continue to get bigger as the NCAA pimps for the colleges and universities but offers very little for the student athlete. I'm letting go of any concern for this because it is a run away train that no one wants to stop. The horse has left the barn.
Newtons Law - for every action there is always an opposed or equal reaction. I think the net effect (over the next 10 years) is that you will see some schools/conferences leave the NCAA or possibly other divisions will be created that offer a better student athlete experience overall. For example: I would not be at all surprised to see the D3 schools, Patriot and Ivy create their own version of the NCAA. After all, what is the NCAA really doing for them?
The NCAA was way too one sided in favor of the institutions (not the student), and the formation of these super conferences is putting it over the top with very little regard for the student athlete or their sport. Baseball will survive as it always has, but it is going to be a bumpy road as these conferences try to make a revenue grab.
PS....I'm about to start reading a book called "Beer and Circus" by Murray Sperber that details how Big Time College Athletics is crippling undergraduate education. I'll let you know how it reads, as this looks to be a good time to read this book.
For the D3's (please correct me if I am wrong) the NCAA Basketball tournament helps them fund the championships. Without the money from the NCAA the D3 colleges would have a tough time putting these championships on. D3 sports are not money makers. I believe in baseball the NCAA helps provide transportation to the the regionals and championships.
Again correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the D3's would struggle with out the NCAA.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
The ACC will end up a 16-team coference. 2 out of WVU, UConn, and Rutgers will complete the new ACC. This will probably lead to nice neat northern and southern divion alignment-8 schools from VA north and 8 schools from NC south. Honestly, if this should happen, it may work out very well for all sports, including baseball and the other non-revenues.
It would make sense for WVU to move to the ACC but all the message boards are saying they are pushing to move to the SEC. That would be a horrible move for them for football. Basketball could still compete but the other sports would get killed - especially baseball. There probably would be more money in the SEC which is why they would try to go there but the better fit would be the ACC.
How would you like to be TCU? You leave and head to a BCS conference just to find out that in your second year it will probably no longer exist.
If the NAIA was smart (assuming they want to grow) they would start courting the D3 and several D2 schools to try and convince them to switch to them.
WVU and the SEC is what is hot now, in July and August in was WVU and the ACC. I think they are playing both sides of the coin. But they better be careful and not wait too much longer or they may get left holding the bag.
I agree that the ACC is a much better and more natural fit for WVU.
BTW-I believe that, as crazy as it sounds, the SEC bylaws state that no other FL school can be accepted into the conference. I'm pretty sure the Gators will never let that bylaw be rewritten.
Fenway I am interested in your synopsis of your book when you are done. As far as D3’s I think they are generally OK with being affiliated with the NCAA and I doubt there will be any change. They give them conference and play-off structure, while it costs them to join, it is more or less paid back in playoff and conference organization as well as rules and oversight. For the higher profile D3’s at least, the athletic departments are break even and they help the raise the visibility and stature of the individual schools.
JH I hear you, but as you are aware the SCAC conference will be restructured after next year. I feel sorry for Birmingham Southern players as their post-season aspirations get turned upside down yet again after this year.
As far as the big conferences go, they have no interest in the student-athlete (sorry athlete-student) and it is all about money. You can look at the finances of any individual institution at the link below. They are driven by football and to a lesser extent men’s basketball and all of the other sports will be dragged along. In some cases (like most recently Cal) the smaller sports may be discontinued. If however there is enough revenue generated by football, then this sport will fund many of the other lesser sports.
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Ge...InstitutionData.aspx
JH I hear you, but as you are aware the SCAC conference will be restructured after next year. I feel sorry for Birmingham Southern players as their post-season aspirations get turned upside down yet again after this year.
As far as the big conferences go, they have no interest in the student-athlete (sorry athlete-student) and it is all about money. You can look at the finances of any individual institution at the link below. They are driven by football and to a lesser extent men’s basketball and all of the other sports will be dragged along. In some cases (like most recently Cal) the smaller sports may be discontinued. If however there is enough revenue generated by football, then this sport will fund many of the other lesser sports.
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Ge...InstitutionData.aspx
quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
This will probably lead to nice neat northern and southern divion alignment-8 schools from VA north and 8 schools from NC south.
The division may seem "nice and neat" geographically; but, unless the conference scraps its current approaches to determining which team(s) are excluded from each team's baseball schedules and to seeding the conference tournament, it'll be a debacle for baseball. Material inequities already exist in the current divisions; and a north-south geographic alignment would only exacerbate that.
Baseball is currently forced to accept the same divisions that were carved out for football when the conference expanded to 12 teams. That has led to a lop-sided structure from baseball's perspective. One division is appreciably stronger than the other.
Interestingly, basketball recognized the problems inherent in accepting football's division lineup and refused to adopt it. Basketball had the power. Evidently, baseball either didn't have the necessary clout or didn't have the foresight to see the problems that would be created.
If the conference will allow baseball to organize around a structure that makes sense for it; then a more equitable framework can be created. We can only hope.
BOF,
Will do. Possibly I can send it to you if you want to read it. A friend turned me onto the book as he intends to write his own book about the same topic with a twist, and updated for todays "athlete student". His freshmen baseball son is at a very prestigous D3, while he teaches at D1. We shared some very interesting stories about D1 recruitment that I hope to get quoted on in his book. He is not a member on this site.
You may be right about D3 staying pat, but I have feeling there will be some big changes coming as the super conferences form. Where does that leave the D1 mid-majors and lower D1s conferences? NCAA will reorganize divisions or there will a falling out of some sort IMHO. Somebody just needs to be the first conference. Colleges and conferences want control over their money. I'm still waiting to hear how this D1 super conference realignment benefits the education of the "student athlete". I have a feeling I will be waiting a while to hear that dialogue.
The new D1 super conference schools will take care of themselves. It is everybody else I'm worried about in terms of funding baseball. Some baseball programs are self funded or have a time table to become self funded. Many ADs have been pushing this for years. I know many schools in my son's conference have been self funded for a bunch of years. Those programs may be ahead of the curve with the econonmy, state budget issues, and athletic budget cuts. We'll see in a few years what effect these D1 super conferences have on the other schools and their non-revenue generating baseball programs. I just don't have a good feeling about it. NCAA and these super D1 conferences reminds me of the Medieval fiefdom organizational model (Feudal system) from 10th grade European history.
Will do. Possibly I can send it to you if you want to read it. A friend turned me onto the book as he intends to write his own book about the same topic with a twist, and updated for todays "athlete student". His freshmen baseball son is at a very prestigous D3, while he teaches at D1. We shared some very interesting stories about D1 recruitment that I hope to get quoted on in his book. He is not a member on this site.
You may be right about D3 staying pat, but I have feeling there will be some big changes coming as the super conferences form. Where does that leave the D1 mid-majors and lower D1s conferences? NCAA will reorganize divisions or there will a falling out of some sort IMHO. Somebody just needs to be the first conference. Colleges and conferences want control over their money. I'm still waiting to hear how this D1 super conference realignment benefits the education of the "student athlete". I have a feeling I will be waiting a while to hear that dialogue.
The new D1 super conference schools will take care of themselves. It is everybody else I'm worried about in terms of funding baseball. Some baseball programs are self funded or have a time table to become self funded. Many ADs have been pushing this for years. I know many schools in my son's conference have been self funded for a bunch of years. Those programs may be ahead of the curve with the econonmy, state budget issues, and athletic budget cuts. We'll see in a few years what effect these D1 super conferences have on the other schools and their non-revenue generating baseball programs. I just don't have a good feeling about it. NCAA and these super D1 conferences reminds me of the Medieval fiefdom organizational model (Feudal system) from 10th grade European history.
Let me know what you think about the book and we can talk. I know our sons are in similar situations, so you can relate, but now that I have seen my son’s schedule and work load(s) I wonder how any student athlete at a highly competitive D1 program can take a challenging major and still be on a level playing field with other players on his team. (or in the classroom) I know it is done, but these kids are clearly at a significant disadvantage, they have to be. I would imagine that at an SEC football program there is no room for them at all. I can see a player going up to Coach Saban “hey coach I have a physics lab on Tues/Thursday and will be an hour and a half late to practice on those days….”
In this vein I think MN-Mom should make it mandatory for all new subscribers at HSBBW to read JH’s post on the realities of college baseball prior to getting registered.
As far as the impact on the baseball programs JH, I tend to agree with fenway in that the additional money from the football programs in the big conferences will likely pay for the other programs. The conferences that will be in trouble may be the smaller lower tier D1 programs that have the additional costs associated with being an NCAA D1 program without the revenue crossover to cover them.
There is a whole lot of shuffling going on out here in the West with WCC/WAC/BigWest that will be interesting to see how it all ends up.
In this vein I think MN-Mom should make it mandatory for all new subscribers at HSBBW to read JH’s post on the realities of college baseball prior to getting registered.
As far as the impact on the baseball programs JH, I tend to agree with fenway in that the additional money from the football programs in the big conferences will likely pay for the other programs. The conferences that will be in trouble may be the smaller lower tier D1 programs that have the additional costs associated with being an NCAA D1 program without the revenue crossover to cover them.
There is a whole lot of shuffling going on out here in the West with WCC/WAC/BigWest that will be interesting to see how it all ends up.
That couch-burning thing could hurt their admission to the ACC; that's just weird...
BOF- Agreed completely on the SCAC realignment aspect. And it is pretty impressive to me that despite the fact that the BSC players don't have anything to "play for", they've come out and won so many games on such a consistent basis.
With respect to the financials of each sport, I am well aware that the move is largely an economically backed decision (ACC TV > Big East TV). However, I was thinking more along the lines of the play on the field itself. A great example was made...if WVU can't consistently compete in Big East baseball, how will they compete in the SEC?
Now with the Pac-12 soon becoming the Pac-16, the Big 12 will be done. UConn, Rutgers, WVU leave, there goes the Big East. Four super-conferences may be glamorous for the wallets of the administration of each respective school, but is it really in the best interest of the student-athletes on campus?
With respect to the financials of each sport, I am well aware that the move is largely an economically backed decision (ACC TV > Big East TV). However, I was thinking more along the lines of the play on the field itself. A great example was made...if WVU can't consistently compete in Big East baseball, how will they compete in the SEC?
Now with the Pac-12 soon becoming the Pac-16, the Big 12 will be done. UConn, Rutgers, WVU leave, there goes the Big East. Four super-conferences may be glamorous for the wallets of the administration of each respective school, but is it really in the best interest of the student-athletes on campus?
I saw a tweet roll by sometime today that suggested the model of conference alignment for football/basketball being one thing and other sports (more regional) being another conference.
Wonder if they read the hsbaseballweb?
Wonder if they read the hsbaseballweb?
quote:Originally posted by J H:
BOF- Agreed completely on the SCAC realignment aspect. And it is pretty impressive to me that despite the fact that the BSC players don't have anything to "play for", they've come out and won so many games on such a consistent basis.
With respect to the financials of each sport, I am well aware that the move is largely an economically backed decision (ACC TV > Big East TV). However, I was thinking more along the lines of the play on the field itself. A great example was made...if WVU can't consistently compete in Big East baseball, how will they compete in the SEC?
Now with the Pac-12 soon becoming the Pac-16, the Big 12 will be done. UConn, Rutgers, WVU leave, there goes the Big East. Four super-conferences may be glamorous for the wallets of the administration of each respective school, but is it really in the best interest of the student-athletes on campus?
JH I think you're really onto something here. It's going to lead to some really ugly games when it comes to baseball and other minor sports. WVU is a adequate baseball team at best and you put them in one of, if not THE, best baseball conferences then it's going to really hurt them. Especially when it comes to recruiting - "Hey come play in really cold Morgantown and get the snot beat out of you by these southern teams. But we can burn some couches to help keep you warm."
I think it's also going to lead to even more violations because the number of championships will get fewer. The competition to get the best recruits will just intesify and lead to more cheating. I've always been a huge advocate of not paying players but the system they are supporting is probably going to make me change my mind. They are totally moving away from the principals and ideas of what college athletics are about. I'm at the point now when some governing body says "it's about the athletes / students" I have to stifle some throwup and want to punch then in the face. It's not about the athletes but how much money the big whigs can get.
coach2709- Which then turns the wheel all the way back to igball's original post about pay-for-play. I personally believe that the "Olympic model" could work very well in the case of the collegiate athletes. Olympians do not get paid to participate in their event(s), but they are more than capable of capitalizing on their fame with sponsorships and marketing. Why can't college athletes do the same? Referring back to the link I posted on the first page, Professor Allen Sack from University of New Haven outlined this very clearly and I really gravitated towards the idea more than any others I've heard.
On a separate note, have you heard any rumors about ECU down your way? I have heard some scuttlebutt about C-USA joining in on the shuffling party. Figure a school like that, which is growing in population and in athletic funding, could look for something drastic as well.
It'll be interesting to see how schools like Baylor, Tulane, Southern Miss, UCF, Iowa State, Kansas State, Missouri, et al react and adjust.
TCU must be having a heart attack...
On a separate note, have you heard any rumors about ECU down your way? I have heard some scuttlebutt about C-USA joining in on the shuffling party. Figure a school like that, which is growing in population and in athletic funding, could look for something drastic as well.
It'll be interesting to see how schools like Baylor, Tulane, Southern Miss, UCF, Iowa State, Kansas State, Missouri, et al react and adjust.
TCU must be having a heart attack...
A number of stories late today say that the SEC rejected WVU..."academic concerns."
"Academic concerns?" Silly stuff. Sure, they're not Vanderbilt...but neither are a few of their other members. This is about one thing and one thing only....$$. Make no mistake.
Pretty funny when university presidents and conference commissioners talk about "academics" while they throw "integrity" out the window with middle of the night, smoke-filled room, under the table with someone named "Deep Throat" deals to absorb who they really want.
That is no cut at the ACC...they're all (conferences) capable of it and just as willing to do it.
The focus on STUDENT-athlete has long ago left us in most cases.
"Academic concerns?" Silly stuff. Sure, they're not Vanderbilt...but neither are a few of their other members. This is about one thing and one thing only....$$. Make no mistake.
Pretty funny when university presidents and conference commissioners talk about "academics" while they throw "integrity" out the window with middle of the night, smoke-filled room, under the table with someone named "Deep Throat" deals to absorb who they really want.
That is no cut at the ACC...they're all (conferences) capable of it and just as willing to do it.
The focus on STUDENT-athlete has long ago left us in most cases.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
A number of stories late today say that the SEC rejected WVU..."academic concerns."
"Academic concerns?" Silly stuff. Sure, they're not Vanderbilt...but neither are a few of their other members. This is about one thing and one thing only....$$. Make no mistake.
Pretty funny when university presidents and conference commissioners talk about "academics" while they throw "integrity" out the window with middle of the night, smoke-filled room, under the table with someone named "Deep Throat" deals to absorb who they really want.
That is no cut at the ACC...they're all (conferences) capable of it and just as willing to do it.
The focus on STUDENT-athlete has long ago left us in most cases.
"Amen" to all of the above...sadly.
justbaseball- Great post.
quick note on ECU. They have tried to join the ACC a number of times. I think it's time.
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ecu/story/10154165/
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ecu/story/10154165/
quote:Originally posted by Prepster:quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
This will probably lead to nice neat northern and southern divion alignment-8 schools from VA north and 8 schools from NC south.
The division may seem "nice and neat" geographically; but, unless the conference scraps its current approaches to determining which team(s) are excluded from each team's baseball schedules and to seeding the conference tournament, it'll be a debacle for baseball. Material inequities already exist in the current divisions; and a north-south geographic alignment would only exacerbate that.
Baseball is currently forced to accept the same divisions that were carved out for football when the conference expanded to 12 teams. That has led to a lop-sided structure from baseball's perspective. One division is appreciably stronger than the other.
Interestingly, basketball recognized the problems inherent in accepting football's division lineup and refused to adopt it. Basketball had the power. Evidently, baseball either didn't have the necessary clout or didn't have the foresight to see the problems that would be created.
If the conference will allow baseball to organize around a structure that makes sense for it; then a more equitable framework can be created. We can only hope.
Everyone says that the "student" part of "student athlete" is not a consideration in all this. Well, a geographical alignment may or may not be the best from a competion ("athelete") standpoint, but it would almost certainly be in the best interest of the "student" with less travel for the "athelete" and more time for the "student". This would also address the other major complaint by reducing travel costs. Combined with what almost certainly will be a Wall Street size heist from the networks and each school will be getting more revenue than ever. In the end, at least from the ACC's standpoint, this has the potential to help the student atheletes, particularly in the non-revenue sports, and the non-revenue sports themselves by reducing costs and allowing them to apply more money to the programs themselves.
I think coach is right on what is going to happen to some of the other sports in these conferences, baseball included. The strong will get stronger with the new revenue, and the weaker teams will struggle to attract talent. Who wants to go to a program where you get your butt kicked every week? I get a kick out of the coaches at the beginning of a season talking about going to Omaha, or getting to a regional, but it will end up like the Big West where all of the other teams not CSF are playing for second place or possibly an at large bid.
I about fell out of my chair when I saw the word “academic and SEC” included in the same sentence, paragraph or even on the same page. What a joke.
I about fell out of my chair when I saw the word “academic and SEC” included in the same sentence, paragraph or even on the same page. What a joke.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
I think coach is right on what is going to happen to some of the other sports in these conferences, baseball included. The strong will get stronger with the new revenue, and the weaker teams will struggle to attract talent. Who wants to go to a program where you get your butt kicked every week? I get a kick out of the coaches at the beginning of a season talking about going to Omaha, or getting to a regional, but it will end up like the Big West where all of the other teams not CSF are playing for second place or possibly an at large bid.
I about fell out of my chair when I saw the word “academic and SEC” included in the same sentence, paragraph or even on the same page. What a joke.
LOL!!! Isn't that the truth. Maybe "factory and SEC" or "farm system and SEC" would have been a better choice of words?
Lord Chesterton (a LOOGY) wrote: "Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely." In todays society if you substitute the word money in place of power, it sums up the state of high level college football and basketball -which of course is totally driving this business.
At the same time it's really not as easy as saying this boat load of money for football and basketball is all bad and corrupting. In fact you could argue that while its bad for the basketball and football participants who get little for their investment of time in their sport, it has helped dramatically other non revenue sports. At my sons school I think $ 21 million out of the $ 24 million total revenues come from basketball and football. Where else would they get the money to put in $ 10 million + on a baseball facility for the 1,000 fans that show up?
And with regards to lack academic standards for the most part we are again talking about football and basketball. With the non revenue sports you can still be a real student athlete. My sons high school travel middle infield friend is a high level two-way player at Northwestern and pre-med. I'm sure this kind of commitment is not uncommon (my own son is taking physics and accounting this semester while putting in the necessary effort to be a two-way player).
It comes down to institutional leadership and where its lacking there's trouble. My general take on things is that big time college football and basketball generally is doing a disservice to its participants while our sons (and most certainly daughters) are deriving a lot of the benefits from this unholy arrangement.
With regards to the ACC baseball conference alignment, currently the top 8 teams get in the playoffs regardless of specific standings in the two divisions. My guess is that arrangement will stay the same.
At the same time it's really not as easy as saying this boat load of money for football and basketball is all bad and corrupting. In fact you could argue that while its bad for the basketball and football participants who get little for their investment of time in their sport, it has helped dramatically other non revenue sports. At my sons school I think $ 21 million out of the $ 24 million total revenues come from basketball and football. Where else would they get the money to put in $ 10 million + on a baseball facility for the 1,000 fans that show up?
And with regards to lack academic standards for the most part we are again talking about football and basketball. With the non revenue sports you can still be a real student athlete. My sons high school travel middle infield friend is a high level two-way player at Northwestern and pre-med. I'm sure this kind of commitment is not uncommon (my own son is taking physics and accounting this semester while putting in the necessary effort to be a two-way player).
It comes down to institutional leadership and where its lacking there's trouble. My general take on things is that big time college football and basketball generally is doing a disservice to its participants while our sons (and most certainly daughters) are deriving a lot of the benefits from this unholy arrangement.
With regards to the ACC baseball conference alignment, currently the top 8 teams get in the playoffs regardless of specific standings in the two divisions. My guess is that arrangement will stay the same.
quote:Originally posted by J H:
coach2709- Which then turns the wheel all the way back to igball's original post about pay-for-play. I personally believe that the "Olympic model" could work very well in the case of the collegiate athletes. Olympians do not get paid to participate in their event(s), but they are more than capable of capitalizing on their fame with sponsorships and marketing. Why can't college athletes do the same? Referring back to the link I posted on the first page, Professor Allen Sack from University of New Haven outlined this very clearly and I really gravitated towards the idea more than any others I've heard.
On a separate note, have you heard any rumors about ECU down your way? I have heard some scuttlebutt about C-USA joining in on the shuffling party. Figure a school like that, which is growing in population and in athletic funding, could look for something drastic as well.
It'll be interesting to see how schools like Baylor, Tulane, Southern Miss, UCF, Iowa State, Kansas State, Missouri, et al react and adjust.
TCU must be having a heart attack...
I haven't heard anything specifically about ECU but I don't really follow them that closely. But I can see C-USA wanting to get in on the action and hopefully pull some sort of upset and get some of these major names into their conference and create some credibility rather quickly. C-USA isn't a bad conference and has pulled some big wins down from the BCS schools - most notably ECU. I doubt they will ever get Oklahoma or Texas type schools but a Texas A&M, Texas Tech or something like that could happen. They are already in that area with UTEP (I think it's them) so not far fetched IMO.
I can't see the power conferences lasting too long. It will work initially because everyone will be making money hand over fist due to the "newness" of it. But eventually you will have a 1/3 of the teams who will traditionally win and a 1/3 of the teams who will traditionally stick up the field / court. The middle third will make noise every so often but nothing major. The 1/3 that are the "haves" will get tired of sharing the money with the 1/3 that are the "have nots". All kinds of friction and petty fighting will start then the whole thing breaks apart and we're probably back at square one with conferences.
National Colleges Against Athletes (NCAA) why is anyone surprised?
Now Notre Dame is being mentioned as an ACC prospect?
I can't much stand Notre Dame so they are an instant conference rival, but in all of this shuffling, doesn't anybody care about the huge travel distances for all sports? Football travels primarily on weekends, but not so the other sports. Academic work will get harder yet with schools taking 1,000 mile trips for conference games...
The NCAA apparently is powerless in all of this as it only has the power member schools give it, and conference alignment isn't something it can control. Of course, the NCAA isn't much a friend to athletes so we probably wouldn't want it to be involved.
I can't much stand Notre Dame so they are an instant conference rival, but in all of this shuffling, doesn't anybody care about the huge travel distances for all sports? Football travels primarily on weekends, but not so the other sports. Academic work will get harder yet with schools taking 1,000 mile trips for conference games...
The NCAA apparently is powerless in all of this as it only has the power member schools give it, and conference alignment isn't something it can control. Of course, the NCAA isn't much a friend to athletes so we probably wouldn't want it to be involved.