Already, schools from the Southeastern Conference, Atlantic Coast Conference, Pac-12 and Big 12 have been implicated. One school clearly is South Carolina, which reached last season’s Final Four. Another is Miami. The implicated assistants are from Auburn, Oklahoma State, Arizona and USC.
Who would of have guessed that Rick Pitino would have out scumbagged John Calipari...that is a pretty big upset...I mean honestly Pitino would have been a top 20 pick probably even a high seed in a fictitious 64 team bracket. That being said Johnnie Boy & KU would have had to be a 1 seed and most likely are on high alert at this moment. He gets more and better recruits every year then just about anyone else...hard to believe that we won't find in some way Kentucky is involved.
Big Villanova fans in my house, hoping / assuming they will come out of the unscathed but as the article says if your school plays big time hoops you should be very concerned.
RJM - Here's the issue as I see it...the NCAA and the College Presidents knew this going on but kept far enough away from it that I doubt they will be charged with anything except being told they should have known and done something. The NCAA and College Presidents were enablers that didn't receive monetary gain directly, but are part of that system Coach May mentioned. The HCs and Asst Coaches will be taken down hard if they were part of this conspiracy. Some schools will get the death penalty or close to it. New coaches will be brought in, and the system will be back in business in 5-10 years...heck look at Penn State football....not doing too bad after all that crap they went through. If the gov't wants to do something to stop the system they've got to cut off the head of the snake (NCAA) and allow a reboot with something better and less prone to greed and corruption. The problem is who does that? The College Presidents want status quo and they are the ones who signed up with the NCAA in the first place. So, some interim organization has to be appointed by the Gov't or somebody to fix this. Otherwise the same thing is going to keep happening over and over. As always, JMO.
Old_School - Not only did Rick Pitino out scumbag Calipari, he lapped him twice. ;-)
fenwaysouth posted:Old_School - Not only did Rick Pitino out scumbag Calipari, he lapped him twice. ;-)
I think...that...remains to be seen.
fenwaysouth posted:RJM - Here's the issue as I see it...the NCAA and the College Presidents knew this going on but kept far enough away from it that I doubt they will be charged with anything except being told they should have known and done something. The NCAA and College Presidents were enablers that didn't receive monetary gain directly, but are part of that system Coach May mentioned. The HCs and Asst Coaches will be taken down hard if they were part of this conspiracy. Some schools will get the death penalty or close to it. New coaches will be brought in, and the system will be back in business in 5-10 years...heck look at Penn State football....not doing too bad after all that crap they went through. If the gov't wants to do something to stop the system they've got to cut off the head of the snake (NCAA) and allow a reboot with something better and less prone to greed and corruption. The problem is who does that? The College Presidents want status quo and they are the ones who signed up with the NCAA in the first place. So, some interim organization has to be appointed by the Gov't or somebody to fix this. Otherwise the same thing is going to keep happening over and over. As always, JMO.
Old_School - Not only did Rick Pitino out scumbag Calipari, he lapped him twice. ;-)
I posted the article on Facebook to shake up a friend who is a diehard fan of one of the teams named. I made the point college presidents collectively have the power to block an NCAA investigation. But there's nothing they can do to block a FBI investigation.
At least Jerry Tarkanian was up front about what goes on in college sports. He joked he liked transfers. Their first college already bought them a car.
Pitino and Calipari should star in a movie The Slime That Took Over Kentucky.
LU and KU deserve what they got, for the most part the SEC and much of the south in general is a cesspool with football and basketball...and if/when baseball turns more corrupt then it is today I have no doubt the SEC will be near the top in that category as well. They are the NFL of college - as in the greediest and the lowest standards
I hope they make an example out of Pitino. Every coach/AD/school should be scared.
Why did it take the FBI to discover that assistant coaches were taking cash payments to steer top draft picks to certain agents and financial planners? Isn’t that the job of the National Collegiate Athletic Association?
As Jay Bilas, ESPN’s college basketball analyst (and former Duke star) said Wednesday, “The NCAA is always the last to know anything. … Their enforcement division doesn’t uncover anything. It’s usually uncovered by journalists, and the NCAA jumps in afterward.”
old_school posted:LU and KU deserve what they got, for the most part the SEC and much of the south in general is a cesspool with football and basketball...and if/when baseball turns more corrupt then it is today I have no doubt the SEC will be near the top in that category as well. They are the NFL of college - as in the greediest and the lowest standards
I was confused when I read KU a couple of times in this thread. KU (Kansas) and UK (Kentucky). As a KU fan I felt I needed to point that out. But KU is an addidas school so I am kinda waiting for the hammer to drop there too.
interesting read ....
mmm1531 posted:interesting read ....
thanks
Rather than punish anyone - it would be better to put all of it above board and to start paying the players in DI.
I believe a system where players have 5 years of eligibility and a choice to take a scholarship and $15k per year in cash or $75k per season and skip school altogether makes far more sense. Drop the number of players per school to 12 for basketball and 70 for football. Kill all the recruiting rules.
Just wash the whole thing out and make it what they really are - professional minor leagues dressed up as State U.
There will still be money funneled to players but then it would be tax evasion - and playing around with the IRS will probably keep a lot of donors on the sidelines and taking one or two guys down - including their personal assets will hopefully stop the rest.
So, I think this article captures a fair punishment and example that needs to be set across the NCAA universe. If Pitino is going to be re-hired that future e University needs to "show cause".
RJM posted:
All I took out of that article is that Alabama basketball has a small budget for basketball. No wonder they were near the bottom in conference.
The next shoe to drop may be Nike!
College sports has become a national disgrace
Harvard was the first cheater in 1852
luv baseball posted:Rather than punish anyone - it would be better to put all of it above board and to start paying the players in DI
Title IX says it can't be done...the argument ends there. I wouldn't mind a conversation, actually I would support getting rid of it but there is a better chance of the Trump and the Rocket Man having Tea then Title IX being done away with. So until then paying the athletes is never going to happen.
RJM posted:College sports has become a national disgrace
Harvard was the first cheater in 1852
Agreed on College sports and I hate agreeing with Bob Ryan on anything!
Perhaps coaches and administrators should be required to sign clawback provisions in the case of such violations. This might serve as a significant incentive not to cheat.
i'll tell you the one big difference between basketball and football/baseball. Its easier for the agents, shoe companies to identify the future stars. Everyone knew Lebron was going to be a star, Shaquille, Jordan, Magic Johnson etc. Who are the current best football players, endorsement wise? Tom Brady 6th rd pick, Aaron Rogers went juco out of high school.
old_school posted:luv baseball posted:Rather than punish anyone - it would be better to put all of it above board and to start paying the players in DI
Title IX says it can't be done...the argument ends there. I wouldn't mind a conversation, actually I would support getting rid of it but there is a better chance of the Trump and the Rocket Man having Tea then Title IX being done away with. So until then paying the athletes is never going to happen.
They can funnel the money back to every student to give them all cheaper tuition.
hsbaseball101 posted:old_school posted:luv baseball posted:Rather than punish anyone - it would be better to put all of it above board and to start paying the players in DI
Title IX says it can't be done...the argument ends there. I wouldn't mind a conversation, actually I would support getting rid of it but there is a better chance of the Trump and the Rocket Man having Tea then Title IX being done away with. So until then paying the athletes is never going to happen.
They can funnel the money back to every student to give them all cheaper tuition.
now your talking!
mmm1531 posted:interesting read ....
I love reading Gregg Doyle - he's a great writer.
Midwest Mom posted:mmm1531 posted:interesting read ....
I love reading Gregg Doyle - he's a great writer.
He must be great. He’s worked his way down to the Indianapolis Star. He previously worked in Miami, Tampa and Cincinnati and for CBSSports.com.
RJM, maybe it's a good gig for him in Indy. If you're in the journalism business it's not easy - most newspapers have had to downsize and a lot of really great writers took buyouts or got let go. I don't know his circumstances but I read enough of his stuff to know he's good. JMO
Midwest Mom posted:RJM, maybe it's a good gig for him in Indy. If you're in the journalism business it's not easy - most newspapers have had to downsize and a lot of really great writers took buyouts or got let go. I don't know his circumstances but I read enough of his stuff to know he's good. JMO
I’ll politely call him a flame throwing jackass.
This is an interesting twist to this case...
http://www.latimes.com/sports/...-20171222-story.html
"Attorneys for three defendants in the college basketball bribery and corruption case filed a motion Friday to dismiss the indictment against them, arguing federal prosecutors are trying to criminalize alleged violations of NCAA rules."
...
“The payments purportedly made by Defendants were not themselves unlawful,” the motion said. “It is not against the law to offer a financial incentive to a family to persuade them to send their son or daughter to a particular college.
Smitty28 posted:This is an interesting twist to this case...
http://www.latimes.com/sports/...-20171222-story.html
"Attorneys for three defendants in the college basketball bribery and corruption case filed a motion Friday to dismiss the indictment against them, arguing federal prosecutors are trying to criminalize alleged violations of NCAA rules."
...
“The payments purportedly made by Defendants were not themselves unlawful,” the motion said. “It is not against the law to offer a financial incentive to a family to persuade them to send their son or daughter to a particular college.
Feds will need to take the Al Capone route on this one.
old_school posted:hsbaseball101 posted:old_school posted:luv baseball posted:Rather than punish anyone - it would be better to put all of it above board and to start paying the players in DI
Title IX says it can't be done...the argument ends there. I wouldn't mind a conversation, actually I would support getting rid of it but there is a better chance of the Trump and the Rocket Man having Tea then Title IX being done away with. So until then paying the athletes is never going to happen.
They can funnel the money back to every student to give them all cheaper tuition.
now your talking!
I am no lawyer on Title IX but it seems to me that if they took football and basketball players and made them employees by paying them it would shift the entire enterprise out of Title IX and into Labor Law. With that comes a host of liability and workman comp issues that is the reason that the NCAA was created in the first place - limit liability by creating the term "student-athlete". The greatest slight of hand of stealing labor this side of slavery. The bargain is so corrupt that it strains credulity that there is anything approximating value for way too many of the players to suggest that it is a fair deal.
This is the main reason why the entire rotten edifice needs to be kicked down. No real expectation that will happen voluntarily though - it will have to be forced by the courts when eventually someone wins a lawsuit against the NCAA and these players gain employment status. IMO it is only a matter of time. Imagine a NCAAPA negotiating $1 Billion or more per year away from schools to pay 6,000 kids. That is some real escarole.
Whodda thunk Lavar Ball has a point? You could have won real money from me there.
what are you going to do with the proposed employees when they are out of eligibility? you can't just fire them for no reason...at least according to our court system.
old_school posted:what are you going to do with the proposed employees when they are out of eligibility? you can't just fire them for no reason...at least according to our court system.
Would they be Temp or Contract employees?
old_school posted:what are you going to do with the proposed employees when they are out of eligibility? you can't just fire them for no reason...at least according to our court system.
Actually, Montana is currently the only state that doesn't have "At Will Employment". Many states have exceptions to "At Will Employment" (e.g. whistle-blower laws), but I don't think any of those exceptions would preclude a school from terminating employment if they had a clearly established eligibility policy.
But there are still million$ of other reasons it won't happen.
old_school posted:what are you going to do with the proposed employees when they are out of eligibility? you can't just fire them for no reason...at least according to our court system.
My proposal would be 6 year contracts. There can be language about performance and they would get cut if need be a la the NFL. No different than getting scholarship pulled today. Don't buy into "it can't be done" trope. If we can put a man on the moon we can figure out how to pay teenagers to play football and basketball.
It might start with the creation of the NCAAPA - so that the players can hire professional representation. There would also have to be a mechanism for them to exit for the NFL & NBA after a some period of time. It might mean that the Power 5 conferences actually breakoff from the NCAA altogether and form a true "League"that instead of American and National conferences has the SEC, ACC, Big 10 etc. Football tourney gets to 16 teams - two teams from Conference championships and 6 "Wild Cards". Basketball might actually stay the way it is and cross over to allow 24 or so "College" teams into the March madness that makes that tournament so popular.
Admittedly this would require a measure of creativity and imagination so that makes all change from within hard. It is why companies die in the real world and new ones blossom. Imagine a world without cell phones, tablets, internet and social media and you have....1984.
I guess my question would be what amount of money does it take to make a 18-24 yr old young man uncorruptable. Say you pay the kids 100k a year. Joe the booster approaches Johnny the star QB and says "how about an extra 100k to play for my university". By my way of thinking any kid that was going to take the money before will do so now. I mean if 100k is good 200k is better.
Once they become professional -who cares who pays them? Would a kid get a Nike deal on the bet he's the next Lebron - good for him. I don't care if some Alabama car dealer wants to give someone $50k to mug in a commercial that says "Come to Joes Chevy - He'll treat ya right!"
Break free from the notion of shamaturism and picture a world where a young man might make a million or two before he's 25 - because he earned it. I say the more money the players make the better - this is America not some God Forsaken Communist joint.
A lot of them will piss it away - but they will have a chance at a meaningful financial gain for their skill.
I think people cheer for the laundry, the buildings would be empty, the depth on the rosters would be nothing.
If the 7 to 15 kids who project to be potential 1 and done are going to go this route...even if it is 25 or so, big deal you have 2 maybe 3 teams.
I see this as a loser.
It is possible that rooting for the old State U might not be the same if the players make some money. But I am thinking SEC football will still be SEC football on Saturday afternoons no matter what. The games might be better too. Players that are a notch below NFL and NBA level would stay on for a couple of more years. Borderline players making a decent amount might not feel the need to prematurely head off for greener pastures.
If you want to really get crazy - NBA and NFL teams could draft players after 4 years and leave them on the College team for 2 more seasons. More of a football than basketball thing for sure though.
luv baseball posted:It is possible that rooting for the old State U might not be the same if the players make some money. But I am thinking SEC football will still be SEC football on Saturday afternoons no matter what. The games might be better too. Players that are a notch below NFL and NBA level would stay on for a couple of more years. Borderline players making a decent amount might not feel the need to prematurely head off for greener pastures.
If you want to really get crazy - NBA and NFL teams could draft players after 4 years and leave them on the College team for 2 more seasons. More of a football than basketball thing for sure though.
I guess nobody was paying attention a few days ago when old school accurately stated that Title IX would prevent anything like this ever happening. All the dialogue since his comment is fantasy. Think about it - the first time a male athlete got paid a female athlete would have to get paid too. And if it want the same amount there is your first grievance. So you can forget the notion of paying college athletes unless you can get Title IX repealed - and good luck with that !
NEVER gonna happen (repeal).