Cost of being recruited

Many of us hope you are right, but it is an uphill battle. I've many friends in the game and insist that it has to be done or you can forget it; your schools to small for coaches to recruit, they don't have the time to follow all leads, coaches don’t or won’t do anything to help a kid, etc. I know some folks who have their kids on several travel teams as well as attending as many showcases as they can schedule. When I question the sanity of it all the answer is it is the way it works now. “This isn’t recreational ball anymore. The kid has to play against the best talent to get better”, and so you have to spend the money to put them on those teams.

My pocketbook, only allows so much and I want development along with exposure and I'm afraid a thousand dollars a season, every season is not in my budget.

It's tough but lets not make it tougher than it really is. Obrady, it's only human nature for those that spend excessive money to tell you they are doing the "right" thing and you need to do it too. It gets insane. I have actually seen players showcase on the east coast, pack their bags hop a plane and head directly to the west coast to showcase. In talking to these parents they seem to look at this showcasing as something more than exposure. It becomes some sort of accomplishment or something that adds to their son's resume.
Fungo

Have to agree with Fungo on this one. Son was at the PG Northeast Underclass Monday and Tuesday. He's just entering his jr year and that's the only showcase he opted to request an invite to this year. While sitting in the stands I overheard numerous discussions between parents who's sons had attended one or more college camps, and three or four showcases already and have additional camps and showcases scheduled through Labor Day. Even if I had the finances to make that happen, I wouldn't. I don't see the need to have my son attend a showcase run by every major showcase association and attend camps at schools he's not serious about attending.

Felt pretty good about my line of thinking when, on Tuesday morning, John Lester, LHP for the Red Sox, addressed the boys (and parents) and, when asked about showcases and such, told those assembled that he recommended they limit activity to one or two showcases. He said its not a good idea to burn your son out by having him play year round ball and attend a lot of showcases and camps. He said a couple of good showcases are all that's actually necessary to get your son in front of enough scouts and recruiters to get his name in circulation. He also said that he did not play baseball year round and he attended a total of 4 showcase events between his sophomore and senior years. He ended up being the first player the Red Sox took in the 2002 draft.

We saw some really talented ballplayers in the past couple of days, and some guys that are really average. I don't know which players have parents showcasing them all over the place, but I have to believe the ones who were outstanding won't be hurt by a lighter schedule and the ones who are average probably won't be helped.

quote:

I have to believe the ones who were outstanding won't be hurt by a lighter schedule and the ones who are average probably won't be helped

I agree with this entirely. I don't have any thing against showcasing. My son only did local showcases and a couple of camps due to a limited budget. He always played ball year round, but that was because of a love for playing..... not to be seen. He also bypassed more elite teams to stay with his HS teammates because that's where he felt HE belonged.

I think as Fungo said, that many of us recommend paths we took though because it worked for us. We must all realize that we have different goals and expectations for our kids and they do for themselves as well. For some, to spend $1000s of dollars travelling across the country doesn't intrude on their budget and they will feel it contributed to Jr receiving multiple offers from big schools. Bottom line: your son only needs the offer from the school with the right fit!

KmomNH.

Hi, First off....How did it go for your son?

I am of the same beliefs as Kmom on this, my son is the same age as hers, and he is not doing any of these events this summer. In my opinion and his, he is not ready to do them.

He had a good sophmore year in HS, but tailed off at the end of it. He did ok at Legion over the summer, but now realizes he did not put the real effort and work in that is required to be successful at these levels of ball. He has started to rededicate himself into the conditoning and drill work. We have agreed that if he continues this and there is a levle of consistency with both his pitching and hitting that then we will begin to look at a couple of events. We are certainly not going to be spending next summer going from showcase to showcase though. There were many players on his legion team this summer going to different camp/showcase type events. Some of the boys are definitely ready for it and I am sure will get some extra looks because of it. A few of them were just wasting money in my opinion.

At this point, I truely believe my son would be one of those average players if he attended one. Even worse, the expectations for him would be more than his current skills would live up to. The expectations that have always come because of his physical size and the "potential" he posseses. His is 6'5", just under 200 lbs and a lefty.

I beleive it is very important while you are trying to figure out what level of financial commitment you can put into this, that you are brutally honest with yourself and your son. It is one thing to be a stand out locally, it is indeed something else to go away from the comfort level of home and compete for a roster spot and playing time. We have done this, and it allows us and our son to realize that just having "potential" is not enough. If he is not willing to get up in the morning and take that run, or get the weight work done, or do the drills for his pitching delivery, he is not ready to be given the opportunity to go to a showcase event. You as a parent MUST be ready to say no if you dont see the commitment on his part. In my opinion, this is absolutely critical if you have other children and also want to give them the best of opportunities in what ever endeavors they are involved in.

Kmom and I are in similar situations. We both have only the one son and that allows us to focus the time and money to provide these opportunitites for them. We both have gone through difficult times with our own professions at the same time we were doing the AAU scene all over New England.

I strongly believe her son has done a tremendous job over the past couple of years and has positioned himself to get the maximum he can from this game. I have told her many times privately, and will state it again here openly....She should be (and I know she is) extremely proud of how he has handled himself and his desire to play the game. I am very glad for him and for her.

A parent will want to do everything in their power to give their a child as many chances at a achieving their dream.

If a player is going to many showcases and camps then one would think they are just an average player to continue to seek exposure.

Fungo.....outstanding post with which I wholeheartedly agree!

Thanks for sharing such fabulous thoughts!

quote:

A parent will want to do everything in their power to give their a child as many chances at a achieving their dream.

I agree this is probably close to correct in most situations. Unfortunately for the many parents who spend a lot of money, the issue ultimately, and I think correctly, focuses itself on "Can you play?" and "If so, how well?"
Personally, I think Fungo provides great guidance and insight into the process and he provides it with the knowledge he gained during Josh's recruiting and combines it with his skill, experience and ability to look back and analyze.
If you are a very top player, college and pro scouts are going to find you.
Showcasing/travel teams/recruiting services, etc "service" the vast majority of players at the next levels. In many circumstances they are for parents who are not very confident about their son's ability or who cannot assess where their son fits on a comparative basis with others.
Showcasing/travel teams/recruiting organizations also seem to be a byproduct of the all important "signing with a DI" and/or announcing a "scholarship."
Having the opportunity to look back, I agree those are moments of pride for parents and for sons.
Honestly, though, they are short lived and, to me at least, absolutely the wrong emphasis. Maybe I am rationalizing because our son played football and baseball and stayed with his local legion team, with his only major college exposure being at the Stanford Camp. He ended up at a DIII where he proved he could play and, in effect, used summer wood bat leagues to "showcase" his ability to compete well with those at the highest levels of DI.
If he had showcased more in high school, his subsequent success suggests he may well have ended up at a DI program. However, he would never change the choice of the DIII that he made and whether he played DI or DIII, would likely not have changed whether he got drafted and would still be playing.
As Fungo concludes, and I fully agree, all the showcases/travel teams/recruiting services probably don't end up changing the end result too much. The ultimate result is determined by how well you play and how much you improve and adjust. The ultimate result is governed by the efforts of the player, no matter how hard or how much the parents might try to make it different.

quote:

If you live within a budget then I would have a separate baseball budget and spend accordingly. Ignore the marketing hype and work YOUR plan.

Great post Fungo!

When you say "WORK YOUR PLAN", you are so right. I would add however that you need to be somewhat flexible with that plan. Almost 4 years ago our plan on paper was easy, a good academic D1 school, with a positive baseball program, and we thought we had a fit from day 1. Our problem was we are one of the Tundra tribes from the North and that only D1 in WI never even recruited the kid . There goes the plan and all of a sudden we had to do the dreaded "Out of State" march. Change in plans, and our baseball fund was turned upside down in his Junior year.

Bottom line is the recruiting dollar can be significant on the surface, but in many cases the potential out of State tuition costs were X-fold more than the pre-college baseball fund. I am a tight wad and do not have real deep pockets but while we didn't need all the marketing hype options that were out there we did know that they were available and took a "you can pay me now or pay me later" approach.

Cheapest way to get noticed is by playing on the best select team your son can PLAY on. You do not get noticed by collecting trophys. Second you don't
need to travel across the country to support the economy just be aware to what caliber of competition you will be playing against.
Most larger cities have AABC affilation leagues
that bring large numbers of scouts in for state and
regional qualifier games. Here in Dallas, scouts easily out numbered parents and fans in stands.
Everything PG and others do for you, you can do yourself.Its all so more rewarding

It just so happens our staff has been working on statistics that relate to this topic. At the risk of sounding like we are bragging here are some of the results. The entire list will appear on our site shortly. It does show that there are some players recruited at these colleges without attending our PG events. We are not sure if those players attended other showcase events. The truth is... 80% to 90% of players signing with top 50 type programs have attendeed PG events. Not sure exactly what that means.

Here is a partial list:

Miami FL Don’t have results of recruiting class yet, but know every year nearly every recruit attended PG events
Oklahoma State Don’t have results of recruiting class yet, but know they are mostly recruits who were at PG events
Stanford Don’t have results of recruiting class yet, but know they are mostly recruits who were at PG events
LSU 17 of 20 recruits attended PG events
Arkansas 15 of 21 recruits attended PG events
Texas 14 of 14 recruits attended PG events
Florida 14 of 14 recruits attended PG events
Clemson 14 of 15 recruits attended PG events
Texas A&M 14 of 16 recruits attended PG events
Georgia 14 of 16 recruits attended PG events
South Carolina 13 of 18 recruits attended PG events
North Carolina 12 of 14 recruits attended PG events
Baylor 10 of 12 recruits attended PG events
Arizona State 12 of 18 recruits attended PG events
Oklahoma 9 of 14 recruits attended PG events
Arizona 9 of 11 recruits attended PG events
Alabama 9 of 12 recruits attended PG events
Auburn 9 of 10 recruits attended PG events
Kentucky 9 of 17 recruits attended PG events
Ole Miss 9 of 11 recruits attended PG events
Florida Atlantic 9 of 11 recruits attended PG events
California 8 of 9 recruits attended PG events
Tennessee 8 of 8 recruits attended PG events
South Florida 8 of 10 recruits attended PG events
Georgia Southern 8 of 9 recruits attended PG events
UCLA 7 of 8 recruits attended PG events
Florida International 7 of 8 recruits attended PG events
Santa Clara 7 of 10 recruits attended PG events
South Alabama 7 of 9 recruits attended PG events
Stetson 7 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Nebraska 7 of 12 recruits attended PG events
Florida State 6 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Georgia Tech 6 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Virginia 6 of 9 recruits attended PG events
Rice 6 of 9 recruits attended PG events
Notre Dame 7 of 10 recruits attended PG events
Mississippi State 6 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Louisville 6 of 8 recruits attended PG events
North Carolina State 5 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Vanderbilt 4 of 6 recruits attended PG events
Virginia Tech 2 of 3 recruits attended PG events
Wake Forest 4 of 5 recruits attended PG events
Houston 5 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Tulane 4 of 5 recruits attended PG events
TCU 5 of 6 recruits attended PG events

Sometimes, the exposure you need isn't as much with college coaches as it is for him to see he belongs. I think that's what my son got out of showcasing more than anything else.

We set a budget before our oldest's Junior year of roughly $2,500. He stayed with his Legion team to the end because he felt a responsibility there, so we didn't do the select team thing. We went for a couple of showcases and a couple of college camps.

Certainly, we made some mistakes. But looking back on it, he came out OK.

He has one year of eligilibity left and three semesters of school. He's starting to look at the game differently. He's beginning to think long-term; he's talking to people he knows and has met about perhaps coaching.

Everybody has to work with a budget. But in our case, I think there is a value (that I'm seeing in him now) to the program we put together in high school.

.

Question...Why do we assume that the spending of this $ has to be considered wasted if a player does not get recruited heavily or signed?

IMO, you spend the money predominantly because it is a way for players and parent to spend some all-to-rare time together enjoying a common interest and learning life lessons....if it leads to something more then great. But if the ONLY reason that the money is being spend is the result then you have wasted the trip. And for many of us who have been there the trip IS the goal, the same way as any activity that unites the family.

For us the scholarship was nice, but from a financial standpoint hardly worth the amount of effort, money, time, and emotion. Frankly it doesn't pencil showcases, travel teams or not. But the trip does hold priceless memories of dusty ball fields, of moments of acheivement, of loss, of love, of humor, of just being a family on the road hour after hour connecting in a way that few families have the opportunity to do now a days with their sons.

While yes, there is a certain egotistical pride in the day we won the game and he signed the NLI, I can tell you now that all the high school, travel and recruiting ball is over that it is the trips, the moments of glory, the smiles, the tears, that I will remember, and cherish and miss the most. NOT how much money we did or didn't spend.

And as for me I'd spend twice that much, and put myself into debit (and have) just to have all those trips and all those moments together again, regardless of what it cost and what it did or didn't lead to.

After collegiate summer ball this year I could have flown him home, cheaply, but drove 20 hours there and 20 hours back just to connect. The trip made NO financial, or physical sense and it did not lead to any baseball epiphany or award but I can tell you that it was worth every penny spent on gas and every mile we traveled together.

44
.

PGStaff,
You know I am pro showcase (within reason) but I want people to thing about the showcase phenomenon and how it has impacted the recruiting cycle. Your list is very impressive! However it only proves to me that Perfect Games is very effective in identifying talent, recruiting talent, and assembling talent and everyone knows talented players have always been recruited in the past and will always be recruited in the future with or without Perfect Game. Your list perpetuates this showcase phenomenon to the emotionally involved parent. It appears these players “must” go thru the PG pipeline to secure a scholarship but in reality these players are recruited and funneled thru the PG events by effective identification, recruiting, marketing, and execution of their showcases. As a former businessman (retired last month) I realize you have a great business plan and as your name implies, you have executed it to perfection. You have a very good reputation and I know you offer a service that is beneficial to the player needing exposure. But in my opinion showcasing has become excessive and has turned into a very expensive “ritual” for the uninformed parent. This over-showcasing has turned recruiting into something other than what it needs to be. Are these events “bad”? Absolutely NOT! They are very effective venues for showcasing a player’s talent to those coaches in attendance. But they are expensive and the misconception that about exposure has put some parents between a financial rock and a hard place. If multiple showcases and excessive exposure were needed I would be the first to sound the alarm. Let’s take a closer look at your stats ---

You say: “ The truth is... 80% to 90% of players signing with top 50 type programs have attendeed PG events. Not sure exactly what that means.”
It only means they attended a PG event ---- period. However I’m pretty good at reading between the lines and in doing so it suggest ---- “Statistics prove in order to attend a top 50 program odds are you must attend a PG event”--- and I have a problem with that suggestion.
One could say 100% played high school baseball and 97% played on better than average summer teams but in terms of playing for a top 50 team these percentages are meaningless. It simply means this is what those players did prior to signing with their college.

I wonder ---- With the increase of PG events and other showcases are we seeing an increase in scholarships being given to baseball players?
and---As PG fine tunes their showcases are you seeing a higher percentage of your attendees being signed to top 50 programs?
One final question: Do showcases make the player ---OR --- Do players make the showcase ---OR --- do they compliment each other?
Fungo

Fungo - Terrific thread!

On the one hand I know, FOR SURE, that showcases helped our son gain exposure and attain the options that we desired for him. At least 3 of his 5 final college choices "found" him at a showcase. It opened other doors too...an opportunity to play for the USA Jr. National team, an AFLAC selection. These memories can never be replaced. We remain very grateful to PG and TeamOne for those opportunitites. THANK YOU PGStaff!

On the other hand, I hear parents today being sucked in when it is either a waste of their money and time or they really don't need it anyways. Just a few weeks ago a father of a boy I believe has no chance, whatsoever, to play college ball told me he wants to sit down and discuss which showcases his son should attend. Should my answer be none?

I see organizations starting to run showcases that I don't think know anything about running showcases. What good will it do? Make money for them?

And I've said this before and unfortunately I believe its not fully appreciated why I have this view...but I see parents of 13-year olds starting to consider paying $$ for showcases for their sons. WHY!?!? Can we just let kids be kids a little while longer?! Do these events even need to exist? WHY?!?!?

Fungo...you are a wise man. Your advice at the beginning of this thread is very good advice and should be read carefully by any parent of a HS ballplayer. I too am pro-showcase. But the panic I hear from today's HS parents is unnecessary and I hope HS parents will re-read what Fungo has to say about this. It is good advice. Have a plan. Have a budget. Don't get caught swinging at empty air.

Observer44 and Fungo - great posts IMO.

Observer - if one were to look at it from a purely financial perspective - 99% of the parents who go through this process would be making what could only be described as idiotic financial decisions.
The "pot at the end of the college baseball recruiting rainbow" is filled with a bag of donuts and a couple bucks for the vast majority of players/parents. Its the trip - not the destination - I agree.

Fungo - your post is thought provoking in many ways. What really caught my eye was the schools listed. There were about 45. All big namers.
I would love to know about the other 900 or so schools as well to get a complete picture.

What I have seen more than ever with the young players is the shift away from actually playing the game and winning as a team - and towards a showcase mentality.
What is my time in the 60? - how hard am I throwing? - what is my bat speed? etc...

I hear less and less about actually playing the game - and more and more about "tools" and being "toolsy" (God I hate that word).

If I see one more "toolsy" player in a baseball game playing like garbage - I am going to puke.

So many great posts in this thread

Fungo - congrats on your retirement - may that allow you to travel the country following your son playing baseball.

OldVaman - good point about the showcase letting your son measure his abilities against others.

justbb - What do you tell the father? I would say ob44 has provided excellent advice. Use the event as a way to experience something as a family, and then maybe the results are secondary to that end. If the parent has the wherewithall to afford the events, what does it matter at the end of the day how many they attend? As ob44 points out, there can be value in merely doing certain things.

its - you see the same stuff going on in other sports as well. Every year guys get drafted in the NFL and all you hear about is their great combine numbers but not a lot said about their productivity on the field. You then watch these same individuals play and just scratch your head

Fungo, Observer44, Itsinthegame,

Thank you for your insight and expereinces on this very tricky subject.

I can't speak for everyone, but for myself & my family it is greatly appreciated. As we are at the beginning of this adventure, your input is invaluable to us.


PGstaff,

I agree with the others that your organization has done a great job, but in regards to your numbers....

How many of those players would have ended up where they did or in an equivalent program if PG did not exist? My guess would be most of them. The overhelming majority of the schools you listed are cream of the crop. The players they are recruiting would obviously be the very top of those available each year. If a player being looked at by Miami did not actually get selected to attend Miami, I am sure any of the other schools you listed would be very interested in him.

Perhaps a better statistical breakdown would be one done by a 3rd party that would show all the showcase type of events attended by a player and the schools that eventually extended offers to him.

As I stated earlier, I know of a few boys here that at 16 have already gone to multiple events (I dont know if any were PG events), and to be honest several of these boys may not even crack the starting lineups on their HS squads this next year. Yet their parents are spending $$ and traveling all over to put the kids into these events.

Fungo and others,

There are thousands of showcases now days. I can only speak of our involvement. Many good points are being made and I can’t possibly answer some of your questions.

For example… We have no way of knowing if things would have turned out exactly the same way had the players not attended. I can tell you that in many cases the players were recruited as a direct result of an event (any event) they attended.

The numbers are just numbers. People can debate forever what they mean. Yes, it’s true… nearly 100% played high school baseball. Therefore. it would be a good idea to play high school baseball. No it is not mandatory or even necessary for a player to attend our events in order to be recruited. It just so happens, based on the numbers, that most of the top players do.

Each year the number of draft picks and college recruits who attended PG events goes up. Last year 952 players who attended PG events were drafted. Obviously some drafted out of college as well as high school. I think what you are looking for is this… The same time the number of draft picks and college recruits increase, so does the number of players who do not receive scholarships or get drafted. The truth is we simply see a larger number of players each year.

One thing for sure… We hardly ever have anything to do with how talented a player is. I’m fairly certain that almost all these top players would end up being recruited. I’m fairly certain they would not have the same number of choices. Often many of these same players attend East Coast Pro and Area Codes. Some are selected as Aflac All Americans. In nearly every case, we have already seen those players at PG events. For example of all the players who attended this year’s ECP, only 9 had not been to a PG event. In fact, some were invited to ECP because the scouts in charge saw them at a PG event. We have a very good close relationship with many of the organizers (scouts) who run ECP. They follow our stuff closely, as do most all the top colleges and all the Major League scouting departments.

Regarding the numbers, you mention… We do believe it can be, and has been, very beneficial for many to attend a PG event. The numbers are simply numbers, I do think it’s very important to “read between the lines”. But the reading between the lines should be done with an open mind. That said I would be the first to admit, there have been some early draft picks and top level college scholarship players who have never attended a showcase type event let alone ours.

Once again the bottom line is…
1 - Most important thing – Talent!
2 – Being known by the right people.
3 – The more options the better.

Regarding the budget and the expense… Despite the fact that the NCAA has rules and regulations that need to be followed, there are ways and certain events that will allow talented players the opportunity to attend high level events at little or no cost. And if a player has outstanding talent, there are many high level teams out there that will gladly get him on the roster. Some of these teams foot the entire bill including attending certain showcase events.

I would never want a player or parent to think his son must attend a PG event. I do think it can be important to the player that we know who he is if he has lots of talent. We actually scout other things in addition to our events, even high school games. We actually know who most all of those non PG players are who get drafted or recruited. We are in business, but most important to me are the players, not their money. I know it might be hard to believe, but it is the truth. We take great pride in trying to help players and we’ve helped many who have never spent a dime on us. And our base business revolves around being a scouting service not a showcase company. Please do not confuse with “recruiting service” which we are not!

The numbers are just the numbers, we are proud of them. They are more important than any dollar figure they might represent. It’s a lot of fun to follow these player’s careers. There will always be players who are successful, long before and long after Perfect Game is/was in existence. We are not the most important at anything.

quote:

As I stated earlier, I know of a few boys here that at 16 have already gone to multiple events (I dont know if any were PG events), and to be honest several of these boys may not even crack the starting lineups on their HS squads

NHFundamentals - This is where, we, as parents need to remove any rose colored glasses we're wearing. I would hope if a parent has taken their son to several large showcases and received poor ratings that they would use that information to help their son find a better venue to promote himself for college. A showcase can provide helpful info on both ends of the spectrum I suppose, if we as parents are open to hearing it.

quote:

How many of those players would have ended up where they did or in an equivalent program if PG did not exist? My guess would be most of them. The overhelming majority of the schools you listed are cream of the crop. The players they are recruiting would obviously be the very top of those available each year. If a player being looked at by Miami did not actually get selected to attend Miami, I am sure any of the other schools you listed would be very interested in him.

NH,

We simply do not know that. Are we presuming that all these players would have ended up at the top colleges, no matter what they did?

Every year there are players attending DII and even DIII programs who have highest level DI ability. Some of these DII and DIII players end up being drafted much higher than top DI players.

Being you're from the northeast, it might be interesting for you to look up the Chris Lambert story. His only offer going into August after he graduated from high school was for Hockey! Hewas ready to give up baseball. In late August he was offered baseball scholarships from LSU, Clemson, and many other top programs. He ended up going to his #1 choice from the very beginning Boston College. And later became the only first rounder ever from that school.

There are too many variables to say Miami or any other college wants a player. First there has to be a need for that player. Then there has to be the money available for that player. It is not necessarily true that Miami, Florida, Florida State all recruit the exact same players. Just being talented is not always enough, that's why increasing options is a good thing.

I don't know if this pertains to this discussion, but in our home state here is what has happened. We started leagues and showcases in Iowa about 14 years ago. Before that time seldom would an Iowa high school player drafted. Nearlt always the top players attended The U of Iowa, UNI or Iowa State (no longer has a baseball program).

Since the leagues and showcases started over 50 players have been drafted and all but one player attended the showcases or played in the leagues. Since that time the league and showcases has seen players recruited by LSU, Oklahoma, Southern Cal, Stanford, Notre Dame, Alabama, Baylor, Duke, and other college programs from coast to coast.

Rather than this be a PG thing, look at what's happening in other places around the country. Check out the results of those involved in Andy Pardin's program in North Carolina.

I can understand the debate over value and the money spent. I ask, if all these things were absolutely free, is there still a debate regarding these events having the ability to help young players?

Again, this is a very interesting thread with many good and valid contributions from all of you.

One thing that I have written in various threads over the past few years is this: Before there were showcases, be they local, regional, or national, the best players received baseball scholarships. The players who receive scholarships for baseball would be receiving them with or without attending showcases.

I first began recruiting as a college coach in the summer of 1987. I knew who all of the best players in my region were because of watching games and tournaments, as well as networking with ML scouts, college coaches, HS and 'summer' team coaches. Today the coaches receive lists of players with running times, throwing velicities, etc., because of the players participating in showcases, etc.

Again, there are a similar number of scholarships out there now as there always have been. The players who are the best now would also be the best without the showcases. They are the ones who get scholarship offers and get drafted. There are not more scholarship opportunities or roster spots, therefore there is not an increase in the number of players playing college baseball or being drafted.

The biggest difference I see is that I used to be able to find a Division I/pro prospect type kid just from working hard, networking, and travelling to games every day all summer. I was able to recruit them through hard work and a great schedule, and some of these guys would play for me for 3-4 years at a small school and then get drafted or signed. Today, if those same players attended showcases, they would probably end up at Division I schools.....they may or may not have gotten as much playing time and thus may or may not have gotten drafted.

Showcases have helped the elite Division I teams, with their name recognition in college baseball, to recruit some kids who may have otherwise played at other DI programs or in other divisions and perhaps gotten more playing time. The showcase circuit has provided a vehicle for having less parity in college baseball......the DII, DIII, and NAIA schools have more difficulty finding future pro prospects because the Texas's, Miami's, etc., now have easier access to these kids and it is easier to recruit kids to these programs.

Though what I have written isn't exactly what the course of this discussion is all about, it is an accurate depiction of how national showcases have altered the playing field and recruiting.

Again, the best kids are still getting scholarships, whether they attend showcases or not.

Just to reiterate a point that observer44 made.

If your kid loves the game - and has some moxie - attending a Perfect Game showcase or PG tournament is something you have to try to do. Even if it is a one-time journey and the kid is not destined to play at a Top D-1.

The competitive atmosphere and quality of players (of all ages) at Ft.Myers - Jupiter - and many many other venues is second to none.

IMO.

Our son (a rising junior) attended his first PG event last month and we believe it was money well-spent. His rating and Top Prospect Team honors confirmed our belief that he has the skills to play higher-level college ball. And it gave us tangible information about his tools to pass on to the recruiting coaches of schools he's interested in. (Two of these schools are located several hours away from major metropolitan areas; thus, the recruiting coaches have a more difficult job than many in identifying prospects. In addition, neither school sponsors any type of showcase for high school prospects, so it is difficult to get adequate exposure there.)

That said, after paying for high-level select ball (with approx. 20-30 hotel nights and accompanying restaurant meals) all summer, a PG showcase and 3 college-sponsored showcases (schools son is interested in), we are flat broke! (And exhausted, too) Hopefully, by next summer, we will have dug ourselves out of the financial hole so we can do it all over again for one final year.

Justbaseball, if the father in question can afford it, I'd recommend that he send his son to a PG-type event where he will receive a rating from 1-10. If his son receives a low rating, hopefully it will bring the family down to earth a bit and cause them to begin pursuing other goals for their son.

I can see I have a MUCH different perspective than some others here. Let’s go ahead and dig into this deeply. Let’s try to find the facts and set our opinions aside.

Grateful, please allow me the opportunity to respond to a couple items in your post.

quote:

The biggest difference I see is that I used to be able to find a Division I/pro prospect type kid just from working hard, networking, and travelling to games every day all summer. I was able to recruit them through hard work and a great schedule, and some of these guys would play for me for 3-4 years at a small school and then get drafted or signed. Today, if those same players attended showcases, they would probably end up at Division I schools.....they may or may not have gotten as much playing time and thus may or may not have gotten drafted.

I agree with the above comments completely. This (to me) is an absolute fact!!!!

quote:

Showcases have helped the elite Division I teams, with their name recognition in college baseball, to recruit some kids who may have otherwise played at other DI programs or in other divisions and perhaps gotten more playing time. The showcase circuit has provided a vehicle for having less parity in college baseball......the DII, DIII, and NAIA schools have more difficulty finding future pro prospects because the Texas's, Miami's, etc., now have easier access to these kids and it is easier to recruit kids to these programs.

Showcases have helped the elite DI programs (no question). They have the biggest recruiting budgets and can travel the most to find top talent. I disagree with the less parity in college baseball. Only a few years ago before showcase events became popular, LSU and other colleges dominated DI baseball. Before that it was Southern Cal I believe. The top 25 included pretty much the same teams each year. Now from one year to the next you have different teams winning the college world series at all levels. You see new programs entering the elite status every year. You see new faces among the elite each year. Making the college world series is just as hard as winning it. The top conferences are stronger from top to bottom. And because of showcase type events the recognized talent pool is much larger and spreads over more territory. This allows the mid level DIs to recruit better and compete at a closer level than years ago. There is not a huge difference among the talent level of good players. It’s a fine line and often good recruiters at the non top 40 schools can find players who can take them to the next level.

quote:

Though what I have written isn't exactly what the course of this discussion is all about, it is an accurate depiction of how national showcases have altered the playing field and recruiting.

Grateful. I have read enough of your stuff to understand your opinion should be valued. I respect your opinion and knowledge very much. I agree that national showcases have altered the playing field and recruiting, I just honestly believe it’s in the best interest of the players. And very helpful to both MLB scouting departments and scholarship school recruiting. I do agree that unfortunately it does affect the non scholarship colleges to a degree. However, I think even the DIII schools are proving that they can find more players who can help their programs these days. There is simply more information available about potential players these days.

I am probably not the right person to get involved in this discussion. Trying very hard, but not sure I can be completely unbiased. Can be completely honest, however.

Fungo,
Great subject.

Good posts by all. This has been said many times before and I believe is simply wrong, “If you are good enough, they will find you.”. Yes it may be true for the very top echelon of players, but for the good players who aren’t playing on a good select team or in an area where there are no college scouts, no help from HS/summer coaches, you need to be pro-active. Whether it be by letter writing, finding a good traveling team, showcasing, etc…

Fungo’s point (correct me if I'm wrong), which I think is a great one, is how much is too much. Herein lies the dilemma. Knowing what I know now, my son should have been more pro-active in his letter writing and contacting schools to introduce himself. As I’ve stated before, until my son played on a good fall ball team and went to a fall showcase, his only contacts were with the local DII and local JUCO’s. Now before I get jumped on, there is nothing wrong with DII or JUCO, etc…, however this one showcase in AZ (wasn’t PG, but I believe they attended) where he threw three innings in a 9:30 am game garnered more letters and attention (DI, DII, JUCO) than all his previous years of playing combined.

Simply put, if playing college baseball is one of your goals, and if they aren’t coming to watch you, you better go where they are.

BTW, after finding a $200 sponsor, the total cost of fall ball AND showcase cost us less than $250 for son. Much more for us to tag along, but we wouldn’t have missed it for the world.

There is no doubt (at least in my mind) that PG and a few of the other top shelf organizations do benefit the baseball community. The high number of kids that attended PG Events and are going to top colleges (per Jerry's post) and being drafted is fantastic.

The stats I would like to see are:
1. Total Number of players that have attended a PG Event.
2. Total Number of that group that ended up playing college and at what level.

This would give a better perspective into the value add of these showcases. I believe the top players are and will continue to be known. It's the next level of kids that perhaps don't get the same pub, don't run a 6.5, and don't throw it 95 that are still very servicable at the collegiate level.

quote:

The stats I would like to see are:
1. Total Number of players that have attended a PG Event.
2. Total Number of that group that ended up playing college and at what level.

We have about 5,000 who actually attend showcases each year, this includes underclassmen who obviously have not signed with a college.

Another 12,000+ attend our showcase tournaments. A large number of these players we see at both tournaments and showcase. That really gives us a better read on each players true ability.

It is very hard to track all of them as they progress to the next level. I will say that several of the teams who play in these tournaments have a very high percentage of players go DI and/or get drafted. After all, they include a lot of talented players on those rosters.

Many of the players on these teams attend the showcases as well. But we are lucky to have so many top summer and fall teams play. These teams deserve more credit than we do for any success their players experience.

If anyone's interested the easiest way for us to track players is by seeing the recruiting class coming into any college in America. Then it is fairly simple to find how many players have been to our events by checking our player files against that recruiting class.

If someone wants to ask about any college, I will check and try to reply. As mentioned before, we are in the process of compiling that information for nearly all DI Colleges and will list it on the PG site.

My guess is that a high percentage of all these players do end up playing somewhere at the next level.

We do not MAKE a player a DI recruit or draft pick. The player is responsible for that! We just help open the door for those type players. As do some other organizations around the country.

Thank you everybody for all your thoughts. My family is going to begin this process soon and I am eager to gain all the perspective I can.

My son goes to a small high school outside of Chicago. I'm thinking that his team is not going to receive a lot of attention, so his best chances are to attend a showcase or a few. He also has played some games for a travel team which we hope will gain some exposure.

Bottom line is how do you know if your son is getting the right amount of exposure? Is it safe to assume your high school coach will do his part to get your son's name out there?

I agree that it is not necessary to attend everything that is out there but it is wise not to take advantage of what you can?

My '06 HS grad is an example of a player who didn't attend any PG events. We didn't feel it was within our budget. In retrospect, I wish we would have made the effort. He was invited to the AC games last August and that is the only place his exposure occurred.

Living in the middle of the country in a colder climate, we had no idea what a PG (or AC) event could do for a kid. I can tell you that PG invited my son to many events for 3 years. When push came to shove and he was making the decision of college vs. pro, PG invited him to the pre-draft workout and, even though he couldn't attend, were very supportive and helpful...even though he had turned down every event they had ever invited him to. They are a class act from top to bottom.

All that being said, we have a 13-year-old catcher who will be going through the process in a few years. We already know that being exposed through a showcase or two will be part of the plan. It just opens so many more doors!

Its true that if you're good, they will find you. But I want to add that being good and attending showcases must be accompanied by three things:
1. Standing out to scouts through speed, size and position...they really do go after pitchers first, then up the middle (catcher, SS, CF), and speed/size really do matter. One coach told us he never recruits 2nd basemen, but sticks with athletic SS's who can play multiple infield positions and can hit. Coaches have needs and go after the best athletes first.
2. Good grades. My son did well at AC, but his grades and test scores were what jumped him to the top of the list for many colleges. Except for the ND and Geo Tech offers which were straight baseball, most schools combined athletic and academic scholarships, with the academic money being a huge help.
3. Character. When the pro scouts started coming around last spring, they put a great value on my son's fastball, but it also mattered that he was mature enough to look them in the eye, shake their hand and carry on a conversation. He was, after all, going to be an investment to them. Great players might get away with off-field issues, but most players need to be strong of character to be worth the money.

Showcases are great, but need to be carefully chosen. Just going to multiple events won't get you more. Do well at the events you choose. As PG becomes more widespread with events all over the country, you see a greater range of player ability. But this is a good thing. By attending a PG event, the player is showing a sincere interest in furthering his baseball beyond HS and will stand a better chance of attracting the attention of a smaller D1 or lower level school who, otherwise, might not have seen him. If you're lucky enough to be part of an AC or AFLAC quality of event, you're in very elite company and the doors will be thrust open. Take it from a family from Kansas who feels very fortunate that baseball is paving the way for our son's future.

In case anyone is interested

Allan Simpson - National

David Rawnsley - National

Quote, "This post is for those parents that are afraid they don't have enough money to help their sons play college baseball". Fungo, great topic.

I don't post much anymore, but this topic caught my eye. My son was class of 2003. The key for him, coming out of N. Nevada, was playing on solid summer teams. At that time, I really didn't know much about showcases. Good thing, because the "budget" was limited.

He was invited to play on a N. California travel team his Junior year. The schedule was great, and it was not unusual at any time to see a number of college coaches at the games. The manager of the team did everything he possibly could to get exposure for his players.

Now, to be specific, even though my son did not attend showcases other than area code, he still received solid offers from 4 good schools. The offers ranged from 90% to 100%. My expenses primarily consisted of typical travel expenses from Nevada to N. California. Not "budget breaking" although my son may have been psychologically scarred from staying at motels with bars on the windows during our travels.(Not any different than "A" ball.)

I am not by any means saying that showcases are not valuable. Again, at the time, I just didn't know that much about them and my son went in a different direction which worked out fine.
Good luck to all.

I do beleive there is more parity in college baseball than even a few short years ago. Whether this is because of more showcases and tournaments than in past years, is up for discussion, but I find that there are many more opportunitities now for players to be seen than in the past.
Over the past several years (let's say 7-8), I have watched Perfect Game grow in scope and mission. Key to any successful business, regardless of price, is often measured by organization and presentation of your product. If my son was to attend a showcase or tournament, I really don't care how many past draft picks have attended, but whether the money I spent was well worth it for his experience.
I think that is what this topic is about, not how much you have to spend but how you spend what you have in your budget.

I have to confess that we spent very little in the way of showcases. I am not sure whether the one showcase he attended was of significance or not for exposure. We did it so he could measure himself against his peers, it was not well attended back then, but every wood bat tourny run by PG was. We and son preferred tournaments, summer travel which included in the summer travel costs, tournaments run by PG and others. You could probably guess which one was better organized and attended by scouts and coaches.

Jerry,
I often feel that you post to defend the success of PG. Many will read my story below and understand that through stories such as this, it's evident you do deliver what you promise (exposure plus a great event).

Son attended PG wood bat, already signed, senior fall. He went only to help his team in the tourney. There were many scouts watching him, Sully was there and many, many coaches came over to say hello to him. After son left mound, a relatively unknown came into relieve, put on an outstanding performance, resulting in a top D1 scholarship here in FL and now ranked as one of the top college pitchers in the country. It cost 75 dollars a player for the tournament. I do beleive that player had never been to a showcase or tourney relying on HS for exposure. 75 dollars. Do you have to spend a fortune, no, you have to be AT the right place AT the right time.
You as a parent need to shift through everything to determine what works best for your budget.

quote:

Posted by ANT09Dad: Is it safe to assume your high school coach will do his part to get your son's name out there?

Based on lots of folks experiences, it is probably not a safe assumption. I would encourage those interested to ask alot of questions on this board, check the main site for the recruiting timeline and take ownership of the recruiting process. If done correctly the process need not be repeated.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
We did it so he could measure himself against his peers...

Exactly! That was a major motivation for us too.

BTW, great story about your son's teammate!

This has turned somewhat into a debate about showcasing, and I suppose to a degree that is fair. But for the sake of turning it a little, I said earlier we set (and spent) about $2,500, which includes transportation costs. Without naming names, this is what we got:

1 local weekend college showcase
1 one-day showcase
2 semi-regional one-day college showcase/camps
3 showcase tournament: 1 national that was local, 1 regional, 1 long-distance.
About 5 one-day pro tryout camps (which all are free, but counted against the budget for gas).

This, by the way, got him roughly 50 plate appearances in competition, plus batting practices and all the things you associate with a showcase.

Probably, a select team would have gotten him some more exposure, but would have taken time away from the Legion team, which he didn't want to do.

We felt that was plenty enough baseball, with everything else going on with him and the family.

The only thing I'll ask in all the PG debate, and, please don't that question the wrong way. I know this one would be much harder to put together, Jerry, but what percentage of kids playing at the lower end of D-I attended your events? Frankly, that might be more germain to the conversation, since Top 50 schools are a pretty select bunch. Most of us out here don't and won't have kids that will play at that level.

quote:

About 5 one-day pro tryout camps (which all are free, but counted against the budget for gas).

OldVaMan - That is a very good reminder! They are free and in our experience the talent level of the kids at these pro workouts ranged widely. It offers a great opportunity for a kid with some good ability to stand out - even at the invitation only ones. Many of the schools that called my son in HS did so upon scout recommendation. Great way to get some free exposure.

What are you trying to obtain from each baseball choice you choose? To be able to walk on to large school, to be able to walk on to a small school, to obtain a very large scholarship to any school, to just have fun and the experience, to receive lots of offers, to compare yourself to other players?

Every family/player have different goals/objectives in mind when choosing teams, showcases, schools.......

Let me divert the attention away from PG because in my opinion PG sells a good service to the players and their families. In the case of PG and over-exposure I would “blame” the parents for going overboard and spending too much and can’t blame PG for taking their money. But let’s talk more about recruiting services. When my son was a sophomore in high school I was approached by a recruiting service. For around $1,000.00 this service would market my son to college coaches and would guarantee my son a scholarship. Granted a college scholarship was our goal and a $1,000.00 was within our budget but Frugal Fungo needed to think about it. My hesitation immediately dropped the price to $750.00. I still declined. Within a few days the same person contacted me and dropped the price to $500.00. Things were getting interesting. I continue to reject his offer and within a week he had offered his services for free. Then it dawned on me exactly how this was playing out. They would use my son, who they knew was destined to get a good scholarship, as an example of how effective their operation worked. My son’s scholarship (which he would get because of his talent) would “lure” other less talented player into their scam for $1,000.00 each. Not bad income for a 8X10 glossy and a 3 min video that had no bearing on my son’s scholarship or impacted those other players. Pure deception in my opinion.
Understand too that effective marketing frequently incorporates a “loss leader” to lure buyers into their market. The selling of baseball exposure is not exempt from this loss leader approach. The loss leader in marketing baseball exposure is the special treatment give to high profile players in order to influence the masses of “average” players. (As in the “free” recruiting service offered to my son). The average player and his parents aren’t aware of the marketing techniques and are easily convinced they must follow in the footsteps of the high profile player if they desire the same results. I’m not trying to blow the whistle on the selling of exposure but I would like parents to think about the business side of recruiting vs the emotional side of recruiting.
Fungo

I don't understand how you can pay $1000 for the exposure when the real deal is living the total experience with your son. I for one found the recruiting experience the most special long term project with my son. It was probably the first time off the diamond that we sat and worked together as a team, he was expaining to me his dreams, I was bouncing off experiences with him, and together we had a plan, on an adult level. There would be no way that I would pay someone to take that from me. These recuiting services only sell tools that anyone can do if the knowledge is there.

The disclaimer here is that some folks do not have the knowledge to go outside the box and that is when the vultures start circling. I like the point Fungo makes that the price kept dropping as they saw he was not buying. I find that a bit dirty from a business standpint.

This is truly a fascinating thread. If I were the parent of a high school player, I would carefully read each and every post(other than this one.). The information, the sources of the information and the experience of the posters is remarkable.
For me, having a son who finished with college in 4 years and got lucky enough to continue playing, while I recognize and appreciate the importance of the recruiting process, one could conclude by some of the information that the journey "ends" with the committment to college. In fact it is only the beginning.
To illustrate my point, I went to the website of a local college and extracted a quote from the head coach on his recruiting class from a few years back.

""I think this is a talented recruiting class," said #@%#@%. "We addressed the issues we needed to address, considering we could potentially lose several players to the draft after this season. We feel we got a group of athletes who will be able to come in and help us right away. All of all our signees were people who were highly regarded by other schools. We feel good about this group."

I thought this was relevent because the school is one of the top 40 mentioned by name.
Each player is described in detail incorporating specific reference to prestigious national rankings.
Of the 8, 2 ended up leaving the program by the end of their sophomore year having hardly ever having played. One had a career that deteriorated productivity wise from a projected high draft pick after a season in the Cape to rarely playing. One pitched less than 30 innings in 3 years, and when he did was never effective but had 94mph velocity and was drafted and left after his junior year.
Three are still playing, one in MLB and 2 in AA ball. All three have actually performed better in professional baseball than they did productivity wise in college.
Unfortunately, the importance and the mystique of the recruiting process can cloud what happens after that point. If I were the parent of a high school player, I would be far more interested in what happens during the 3-4 years in college, and beyond.
I am not at all certain if the college class I am highlighting is common. What it does suggest to me is success in showcases/recruiting does not "guarantee" anything from that point forward. For this particular class, 1/2 of these nationally ranked players rarely, if ever, played after the hoopla ceased.
It isn't how you start, it is how you end. Unfortunately, that is the hardest information to obtain since the college coaches and showcases are not likely to provide statistics of that type.

ClevelandDad alluded earlier to the dilemma of recruiting from showcases in football. I believe it is an equally if not more legitimate question as it relates to baseball.

I have been "lurking" around this site for a couple months now. I have found it to be invaluable. What a generous group of people! This topic has hit home in our house. Our 17 yr.old son is a "late bloomer" 6'1", 160lbs -not shaving. He attends an all-boys' private high school where baseball is huge. After struggling through a disappointing JV season, this past season he worked very hard and earned a starting spot halfway through the season in the outfield as a junior. The team won the championship and he had a terrific season. He attended his first showcase this summer before a tournament. He ranked in the top five for outfielders in all categories out of about 200 players. The showcase was put on by a recruiting service. It was a good way for him to see where he fit in, etc. He has since attended a regional showcase and one at a college-where he performed well, but did not get any formal evaluation. All minimal expenses. Now we are beginning to get a lot of letters, most are for attending Showcase camps or Prospect camps at colleges. Is this generated because he is on some list or because they saw him play? He has received other letters and questionaires as well. So far, we have decided that he will attend only those at schools that we think will fit his academic interests and ability. A few questions- do you think this is a good approach? He did not pitch for his HS team except freshman year, but the varsity pitching coach loves his strong arm and is looking to get him on the mound for his senior season. Should he showcase for pitching as well as oufield? He has pitched for his summer team and throws around 85 MPH.

He gave up football this year to only work for baseball. He is looking for a fall team and a few caoches have asked him to let them know where he will be playing so they can se him play. He loves baseball and wants to play in college-has already hand written letters to several coaches. His grades are great and tests score above avg. We want to support his dream, but also want to know the right things to do, especially when it comes to these showcases. We have two younger teenagers and definitely have budget considerations.

Sorry for the rambling- but I guess after all the "lurking," I have a lot of pent-up questions!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PGStaff:
Grateful. I have read enough of your stuff to understand your opinion should be valued. I respect your opinion and knowledge very much. I agree that national showcases have altered the playing field and recruiting, I just honestly believe it’s in the best interest of the players. And very helpful to both MLB scouting departments and scholarship school recruiting. I do agree that unfortunately it does affect the non scholarship colleges to a degree. However, I think even the DIII schools are proving that they can find more players who can help their programs these days. There is simply more information available about potential players these days.
QUOTE]

PG, I also have tremendous respect for what you do and the services that you provide for players, college coaches, and ML scouts.

My comments were not at all meant as a knock against showcases of any sort. But I know from being out there with the scouts and coaches, from networking with so many other college coaches, that it has become much more difficult for many of the NAIA and DIII schools to recruit pro prospects.

For lack of a better example, no longer will Gordie Gillespie at the College of St. Francis in Illinois be able to bring in guys like Don Peters, who was a first round draft pick in 1990.....if Don Peters was in high school now, he would most likely end up at a very competitive DI program someplace with a large scholarship.

I am no longer a college head coach, having 'retired' so to speak in 2003, the same year that my son graduated from HS. As an NAIA head coach, with considerable success, at that time I never received information from companies such as PG, Area Codes, TeamOne, etc., even though those organizations were holding showcases. My knowledge of such programs came from having a son who was a good player.

When my son was invited to an Area Code tryout in Chicago in 2002, I sat there with about 100 other coaches and ML scouts. Only myself and another NAIA coach (and the coach of the DIII school which hosted the event) represented non-Division I programs. The rest of the coaches were from DI schools across the country.

This is an example of decreased parity. Some of you may believe that there is now more parity among Division I schools, but that is not what I was referring to. Division I schools only represent a relatively small percentage of colleges. I was referring to parity in college baseball at all levels. The best players that I was once able to recruit no longer play at small NAIA schools. Those guys play DI baseball, or perhaps sit the bench at DI schools. That is the lack of parity that I mean.

By no means am I intending to say that there are no longer pro prospects at smaller schools in the lower divisions; there are still several of them and I see them every year. But I can foresee a time when a higher percentage of kids attend these showcases and even fewer pro prospects play ball at the lower levels.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
...but I see parents of 13-year olds starting to consider paying $$ for showcases for their sons. WHY!?!? Can we just let kids be kids a little while longer?!

JBB - I haven't read the rest of the posts yet but I just wanted to comment on this excellent question as the parent on a 13u player.

I'm not sure I have an answer per se, but some ideas why this happens. For one, everything in the recruiting process is starting earlier and earlier. Kids who are giving verbal commitments are now juniors, with many Sophomores "on the radar". How'd they get there?

Another problem is that several organizations rank these young players. For exapmle, Baseball America ranks the top youth players every year. I'm not sure how young they go but I know it's as low as 12u. There are also some organizations that categorize these kids as "All Americans". Granted, there are many parents who are posturing to get their son named as a 12u, 13u, 14u All American. But probably just as prevalent, the kids see it as a goal and want to be named on the AA team. So in order to see how they compare, they go to a showcase. To be honest, I'm curious to see how my son compares. Does it mean anything? Not really. I know it doesn't matter what he's throwing at 13 or how tall he is. It's more important that he's throwing 85-90 or higher when he's 17 and that he's projectable. BUT if he's throwing 80-82 now, it's a heck of a lot closer to 90 than if he was throwing 70-72. And he wouldn't know how he compared to others his age unless he goes to a showcase or something along those lines. Again, it doesn't mean he will throw 90+, it just shows him how he stacks up.

Another problem is the snowball effect. With the colleges recruiting earlier and the exposure more prevalent for the younger players, the pressure is there to perform at a younger age. The parents feel they need to have their son play on the "best" teams so they can get exposure, play in the big tourneys, etc.

quote:

quote:
How many of those players would have ended up where they did or in an equivalent program if PG did not exist? My guess would be most of them. The overhelming majority of the schools you listed are cream of the crop. The players they are recruiting would obviously be the very top of those available each year. If a player being looked at by Miami did not actually get selected to attend Miami, I am sure any of the other schools you listed would be very interested in him.


NH,

We simply do not know that. Are we presuming that all these players would have ended up at the top colleges, no matter what they did?

PG,

I did not say ALL, I said most. And yes, I believe that is a very fair assesment.

The schools you listed, are mostly the ones we excpect would be competeing heavily for CWS berths. A player that any of those schools is recruiting would obviously be a very high caliber player. Therefore it is not a stretch to assume if he was not offered a spot on one of the teams you listed, he would certainly stand a very very good chance to get a spot on one of the other schools.

Beezer - I get everything you are saying. But can't you assess all of the same stuff by just having your son play on a decent travel team against good competition? Even as a novice I feel I can get a pretty good idea from that. Why is a showcase or a rating needed other than to feed an ego?

There are some players that you can tell at age 13 they are going to be really good. Robert Stock is a good example of that. I saw Robert play when he was 12 and it was clear he was headed for a wonderful future. But for every Robert, I can name 5 others we would have all gotten wrong (plus and minus). And even in Robert's case...why would he need to go to a showcase at that age? It isn't going to change where he ulitmately ends up is it? Everyone knew about Robert anyways.

I am in the trenches of youth baseball. I work with kids and programs age 5-14. Unfortunately where I see all this 'younger-and-younger' and 'earlier-and-earlier' trend headed is adding a lot of pressure to young parents and young kids. I have lots of stories. But among other things...I see it tearing at the fabric of community youth baseball. I hear from a dad of a 10-year old that wants to know what "throwing program" his son should be on so he can get a scholarship down the line. I had a parent get very upset with me for hurting his 7th grade son's scholarship possibilities by not putting him on the 8th grade team (his son DID get a scholarship 5 years later after all). I know a kid (now 19) who was the biggest doggone stud hitter you could imagine at age 13...hit bombs everywhere he went from both sides of the plate...now he struggles at a local JC hitting below .200 and it doesn't look like it will get much better. A 13-year old showcase rating on him would have been off the charts I can assure you. And I know a parent of a very talented 13-year old pitcher who wonders if his son should even bother with playing HS baseball because it might be a waste of time. GEEZ!

I realize that the way we (my parent-peers and me) did things probably scared the parents of kids 10 years before me. They probably thought my group was pushing too hard or too early...so I use that perspective in trying to temper my thoughts on this. But you're only a kid once...just one time! Why not make that one time last as long as it can?

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Why is a showcase or a rating needed other than to feed an ego?

Let me plant my tounge firmly in my cheek....

Obviously JBB, you're totally clueless and out of touch!!! Don't you realize that if I don't take my son Joey to XYZ Showcase, he won't know how he stacks up against little Timmy Smith out of Southern Cali? If I take Joey and he does well (as I fully expect he will) then he can play for the Acme Bandits next year, who qualified for the Super 12 tournament, which will get him on the national scene. Once that happens, his coach will hopefully nominate him for the coveted Wheaties Junior Baseball All American team. With that trophy on his shelf, he's most likely to get picked up for the following season by the Commandos out of Georgia who are nationally ranked annually. Many of the top colleges recruit Commando players and would logically take lil Joey. Sheesh, JBB, must I explain everything???

.....removed tounge from cheek.

.......................

I have spent more money on my son playing baseball than it would have cost me to pay four years at Texas, Texas A&M or Texas Tech.

It's not about the money, it's about allowing him to chase HIS dream. My son is a Senior in HS and has yet to attend a PG event, but will attend two this fall. One a team event and one a Showcase.

I should have had him attend earlier.

Why?

My son is a 5' 9" outfielder with pretty good skills, but he's 5'9" tall. And if you just watch him play a game with his summer team, he blends in. They are looking at the 6'4" guy.

He attended the Stanford Camp and the coaches there were impressed, enough that he is getting a lot of phone calls.

But that camp exposed him to a lot of the Ivey's and Div III schools.

He'd like to see a scholarship offer, anything over books, so the school has at least a little monitary committment to him. Something he won't get at the Ivey's or DIII.

I think at PG, he'll get that exposure to those smaller D1's and D2's. Time will tell.

If he doesn't, then my son will have the memory of he and I travelling to Georgia and Florida together. We are making his first unofficial visit while in Atlanta, so we are killing two birds with one stone, so to speak.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd spend every single dollar. I'd forgo getting a new car as I have done in order to pay for it.

He's only young once, and I have enjoyed watching him play every single game he's played.

After having been through this loop already - and doing it again - I much prefer the travel tournaments over the showcases.

My own personal experience with showcase events has been sort of mind boggling.

The eldest went to about 5 over a 2 year period.

Showcase #1 - says - a definite pro prospect.
Showcase #2 - says fringe draft pick- definite high D1 prospect
Showcase #3 - says maybe a D1 prospect
Showcase #4 - says a D2/D3 prospect
Showacse #5 - basically says he stinks. LOL

After reflecting on it when it was all over - I realized - alot of these dudes must be dead wrong - or worse. I think that is a reasonable assumption to make. LOL

The tournaments were far more exciting - and well attended by scouts - and alot of fun.

I have followed many highly touted showcase players over the years - and then - when I would go see them - they stunk. Just flat out stunk. Coudlnt even chew gum and walk at the same time.

In some cases I would see the player 4 or 5 times. Each time I just shook my head and wondered what the heck was going on. Stunk just as bad as ever.

And it worked the other way too - great players - that noone paid attention to or mentioned.

Anybody with half a brain can pick the super stud - 1st rounder - out of a crowd. You dont need 50 years of baseball experience to do that. But the vast majority of the rest of the stuff doesnt have very much to do with actual performance IMO.

My youngest will be doing the tournament thing - as he has the last few years - he loves it and so do we. Especially the PG events.
The last thing in the world he needs right now is to go to a showcase - perform well - and then be told he stinks anyway.

Just doesnt cut it for me anymore.

To each his own I guess.

Wow what a great discussion by coaches, PG, and parents!

Let me comment. I am a parent of a recruited player. I've spent money on elite travel teams, roadtrips, showcases, hotels, championship rings, coaches, trainers, etc., and it has been quite a learning experience. He will probably get a scholarship. But as more than a few of you have commented, the real benefit is the time with your son, seeing him develop and grow and pursuing his dream. If he plays college ball, I'll get to see some more. Either way, it won't be wasted and I would do it all again.

So here's what I learned. Your son will get better by playing against the best competition. Therefore, get him on the best summer team you can afford once he gets to high school - don't waste your money before that. The summer after his junior year is when you spend the most money - before that you are only stimulating the economy. PG is worth the money as are the Area Codes - but take care in doing anything more than that. It is a business and you are their prey. Elite summer teams are great if your boy is a starter - but no one gets recruited sitting on a bench. Get yourself invited to Junior Days, and go to the college camps of the schools that fit your son academically and athletically - but get some advice from a pro scout (if you think you may be delusional about your son's ability level). Don't just go because you got invited. Don't depend on someone like a high school coach or travel team coach to promote your son - it may or may not happen - you were put on God's green earth to do that. If you treat people with respect, others may help you along the way. Good luck to everyone, and thanks for a great discussion.

Good post Brod! Welcome

quote:

He did not pitch for his HS team except freshman year, but the varsity pitching coach loves his strong arm and is looking to get him on the mound for his senior season. Should he showcase for pitching as well as oufield? He has pitched for his summer team and throws around 85 MPH.

First, as Dad04 mentioned, nice post and welcome to the hsbbweb brod from California

Secondly, the question quoted above was taken from MD21's well written post above. Welcome as well MD21

Here is my two cents on your question and I have no idea if it is the right answer for you or not. If your son's hs coach wants to have him pitch and this is something your son wants to do - I say go for it.

Beyond that, and in my humble opinion, he probably doesn't have much of a chance pitching at the next level. I am sure there are exceptions to this but go look at just about any college roster and read the respective bio's of the pitching staff. In most cases the bio's read like an all-star sheet where you have hs All-Americans, all state players, all county/all league players, and so forth. Kids who have practiced the craft over a number of years.

I think your son would be better served by getting better at what he does best and thus showcasing those things he does best.

I am sure there are probably late bloomers out there who arrive on the scene later in their careers for a given position but I wonder how many.

Grateful,
I enjoyed reading your post and understand what you are saying.
I don't think however, it is showcases and tournaments that have changed the parity for D2,D3. Why would one want to go to a D3 school, where no money is available for scholarships and there is less exposure if they can get into a D1 school. As someone suggested, the process doesn't stop once you get to college, most players are looking for a career beyond college. How many D2, D3 prospects are actually drafted each year and how many actually play MLB? Why is that? There are many talented players that go to these schools (ex. infielddad's son), but why do most not go further than college?

This is no way a slam on any division, but frankly I would prefer my player to try to get a small piece of the scholarship pie than none at all (D3 does not give athletic scholarships, right) and have a fair shot at playing for or either against larger schools, if anything for exposure.

TPM,

Interesting point about the money - but quite frankly - many many D-1 programs are not very good at all in baseball.

And remember - MLB rosters are chock full of players that attended JUCO's - or didnt attend college at all.

In fact - they exceed the number of players that played at D-1's.

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
I truly admire guys like PG Jerry who provide venues for kids.

Not to turn this into a lovefest - but he does alot more than that.

As do guys like TRHit and some other good guys in this aspect of the game.

I think they do it for the love of the game and to help the kids. I really do.

And make no mistake - there are alot of guys out there nowadays that do it just for the money - but they are pretty easy to spot. It wasnt so easy to spot them 5 years ago - but it is now.

The evolution - on a regional and national basis - continues - and ultimately IMO - I think it helps the kids.

TPM, you raise some intriguing and appropriate questions. In general, I think the view of having a small scholarship at a mid to lower level DI as opposed to no athletic scholarship at a DIII is the majority view.
I also think it is why there is a boom in the recruiting/showcase business.
Since ours went to a DIII, let me provide some opposite commentary.
For us, Trinity(TX) was superior academically to any of the DI programs where Jason was admitted and had the opportunity to walk on. He received an academic scholarship which also helped. At the time he chose Trinity and at the time he had to decide to remain at Trinity or transfer to an ACC program, academics were very important in his decision.
Secondly, he visited and confirmed in his own mine what he had been told...if he worked hard, he would play from day one. He did.
Thirdly, the issue of playing and proving himself with the best was a major factor. Luckily, there are summer wood bat leagues. At Trinity, they are spectacular at placement. The effort the coaches expended at getting our son into the Cape was beyond belief. That is the one circumstance where, very honestly, DIII itself was a roadblock. However, he ended up in Newport, RI where he had an experience second to none on the field...and off, from what I hear. He proved a lot to himself and others that summer and that likely made a huge difference in his getting drafted.
Another component was was the recruiting process itself. When you get calls every Monday for about 20 or so weeks from one coach and compare that with a DI program that overnights 6 packages of materials and questionaires..all the same..before they finally come to see you in July after your senior year and make an offer on the spot, it makes a difference. The DI's who said they had some interest did just that..showed "some" interest. Trinity said they were interested, demonstrated the interest, and provided an outline of where he would play in the summer, and the level of progression it would follow. They planted the seed he could play beyond college. I guess they sold a good line but they delivered on every element of the academics and athletics.
For our son, that package was far more attractive than the possibility of a small scholarship at a mid/low level DI.

My son went the mid-major D1 scholly route (A top 50 type team) - as opposed to other excellent D-1's, Ivies and D2/D3 schools.

It was an unmitigated disaster.

Every possible thing a parent worries about in a baseball program occurred. It was like a blueprint for complete failure. (The Hindenburg of college baseball recruiting - LOL)

All I can say is - if you think D-1 is the only way to go - you are sadly mistaken.

Luckily - he was able to transfer and wind up in a nice situation - still got the opportunity to play in the summer - against excellent competition - and get the job done.

Is there a stigma playing D-2 and D3 - You betcha. Dont kid yourself - whether implicit or explicit - you will get an earful.

But if the kid can play - the right people will notice.

Remember - the majority of MLB players never even set foot in a 4 year college - D1 D2 or D3.

Thanks for your reply ClevelandDad. I am really taking in all of the posts in this discussion. Fortunately, the showcases that he has attended thus far has allowed him to showcase at both outfield and pitching. He is looking at it as a learning experience for pitching. You are right that he would not even be considered at this position with his lack of experience for a D1 program, but he has spoken with a few DIII coaches that love that he can play various positions. His HS coach thinks if he can gain some weight-he is pretty skinny yet- he can put some more speed on his ball.

He is a really hard-working kid, and we will support him in his dream the best we can. I think we will stick with picking showcases and camps at the schools where he fits. He has been getting letters and questionaires from schools he has not even considered yet. We will see where this all leads and because of this site we are better prepared to take some control of the process. The "Be Patient" forum discussion was a great one for parents new to this process.

MD21, Welcome!!! Good luck to you and to your son.
With your son heading into his senior year, not being fully developed physically, and, it seems, very much just coming into his own in baseball, you may need to be very adaptable. The college recruiting process is highly unpredictable and the road can be very winding. I say this only because of your comment on picking camps and showcases at schools where he fits. I know what you are saying but, to be honest, the issue often times isn't whether it is a fit for you but rather a fit for the college coach. For most of us, we don't dictate where our son attends and plays, especially late bloomers. I would recommend having your son call the coaches of the "fit schools" and start to understand whether he fits...with them. The responses may well give you confirmation you are on the right track or lead you to start responding to the other programs where you don't see a current fit.
Also, I would recommend you read about Chris Lambert who ended up going to BC and became a #1 pick of St. Louis. About 3 weeks before he was going to college, he wasn't even going to play baseball. One showcase changed that...but he also threw 92 in front of a number of coaches.
As you read more on the site, I think you will learn of the number of players attending college at a school they didn't have any idea about as late as the beginning of the senior year, and sometimes even later.
Also, I would focus your showcasing/camp efforts on what he does best. Realize he is going to be anxious. If he has a very strong arm, that will be noticed whether he pitches or not. When he leaves these opportunities, you want the coaches to remember what he did best. I agree with CD on the pitching side.

If anyone is interested in an old Chris Lambert story. He later became a first round pick.

By John Tomase
May 26, 2004
CHESTNUT HILL, Mass.--The hockey sticks were stowed for the 60-mile drive north into New Hampshire's White Mountains.

In just a couple of weeks, Chris Lambert would begin a postgraduate year at the Holderness School in Plymouth. Maybe the defenseman would earn a scholarship to UMass or UNH. Maybe his juniors career would explode. Maybe he'd emerge as an NHL prospect.

But Lambert had another love, and he figured he'd give it one last shot. So on Aug. 17, 2001, he attended the Perfect Game Northeast Showcase in Wareham, Mass.

Lambert arrived at Spillane Field an unknown. The shortstop had captained Manchester Memorial as a senior, then won an American Legion batting title and MVP that summer.

New Hampshire baseball awards mean about as much as Florida ice fishing trophies, so Lambert the baseball player went undrafted and unrecruited.

But he had a secret. And when he finished sharing it, he became the most sought after amateur baseball player in the country.

Chris Lambert, it turns out, could pitch. His fastball topped 95 mph. His curveball had bite. The high school sophomores and juniors trying to hit him with wood bats had no chance.

"I pretty much went into it saying, 'I'm either going to throw my arm out because I'm never going to use it again, or nothing's going to happen,' " Lambert recalls. "I was going to play hockey anyway."

Cue sound of needle scratching off phonograph. Just days before the start of fall semesters, Lambert found himself at the center of a recruiting war. Clemson wanted him. LSU wanted him. Vanderbilt wanted him.

"It was like nothing I've ever seen," Tim Corbin, the Vanderbilt coach who was then Clemson's recruiting coordinator, told BA last summer. "I've never seen an unsigned senior who was that good that late in the summer."

Lambert's hometown Boston College Eagles won the battle. He enrolled at the Heights on Aug. 24, started classes in January, and joined the baseball team that spring. Out of nowhere as a freshman, he beat Rutgers' Bobby Brownlie for Big East Pitcher of the Year honors.

"I had two and a half weeks to make my decision and it wasn't like I could visit the schools," Lambert says. "Pack your bags, pick an airline, and where you land is where you're going to spend the next four years. It was a scary decision."

Two years later, he's wrapping up a college career that requires a full page in the media guide just for his awards. Despite an inconsistent junior season, he's likely to go no worse than early in the second round of the June draft. He could easily become the first Eagle ever selected in the first round.

Not bad for a New Hampshire native who pitched three innings in high school ("My coach thought I was more valuable to the team at shortstop") and only played baseball on the few days that didn't include ice, snow and temperatures on the wrong side of freezing.

"I think I'm just starting," Lambert says. "As far as baseball goes, I'm just a baby."

Here’s another short article

Chris Lambert has had some interesting turn of events since attending the Perfect Game Northeast Showcase late last August.

Chris had planned on attending Prep School in order to increase his chances of playing college or professional baseball. He had gone undrafted after his senior year at Manchester Memorial High School.

Worse yet, Chris who was an honor student wasn't really offered any outstanding college scholarships. A good athlete, he spent most of his time in high school playing a position.

Lambert decided he would attend the PG Showcase held in the Cape Cod area in Wareham, MA. The rest is well...History.

Lambert was rated by PG, the #1 prospect in the Wareham event that was loaded with talent. The reason...He threw live fastballs in the low 90s, topping at 94 mph. His breaking ball was equally impressive, if not more so.

College coaches in attendance perked up quickly. National powers Clemson and LSU were among the many who made a play for the well built right-hander.

Major League scouts were on their cell phones, trying to OK money to make an offer. Shortly there after, Boston College entered the picture and signed the star pitcher. B.C. had been Lambert's favorite school all along and he wasn't going to pass up the opportunity.

Thanks. I just printed it off for my son to read. Should be a good source of inspiration-anything is possible!

Infielddad,
Thanks for the reply to my post.
iitg,
You are absolutely correct, not all D1 schools are created equal. In fact, so many mid D1's have become so competitive with desire to win, I do not feel they always offer the best opportunities for every player. And as I have always stated, programs at the top D1 schools are NOT for everyone.

This is a great topic and will be placed eventually in the golden topic thread.

I think this is a great topic, as my heart really goes out to parents who fear their limited financial resources will negatively impact their son's future in baseball, as this is how we felt when our boys were in high school.

We put our money towards good area select teams the last two summers of high school, a few lessons in the off season, and one showcase. Both sons also attended anything free that came their way...MLB tryouts, Scouting Bureau showcases, etc.

In the end, both were mid rounds draft picks out of high school and received excellent scholarships to college programs that provided solid opportunities for their development.

Over the years I've learned that the best recruiting approach is probably faith combined with an open mind. God has a plan for our guys and can guide them to it within any budget.

PG has become the gorilla in college showcases and I would like to add a negative to some of the positives being discussed here. I am certain my son, who participated in a major PG event, was significantly hurt in recruiting by the experience.

At the showcase he attended, he received a total of 4 innings at his position over two days, because the "coach" assigned by PG insisted on playing the individuals from his team who he brought to the showcase. PG evaluators had little or nothing to look at when attempting to evaluate my son's performance.

At another showcase, where my son was given equal playing time, he fared both very well on the field and with evaluations.

PG, as well as other showcases, should understand that a relatively negative evaluation of a player in very limited circumstances carries far more weight than is warranted.

I regret having exposed my son to the PG experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
And as I have always stated, programs at the top D1 schools are NOT for everyone.

This is a great topic and will be placed eventually in the golden topic thread.

TPM,

I agree with you 100%. You have always been consistent on this point - and it is something many parents should think about. Regardless of how good their son's may be at the game.

Top programs - like the ones your son plays for - demand a heck of a lot on the field and off the field. In many cases - incoming freshman to these programs will be very surprised at how difficult it really is.

I think that although some people may be put off by your advice - it is truly something every player and his parents should consider before choosing a college.

quote:

Over the years I've learned that the best recruiting approach is probably faith combined with an open mind. God has a plan for our guys and can guide them to it within any budget.

TXMom - The best advice yet!

Getting back to the recruiting youngers players.....

I was watching the Team One / Baseball Factory all star game again last night (I've never seen the complete game yet) but at some point, the announcers interviewed Max Siebert of Baseball Factory. I forget how the one discussion started but they asked him how early they start recruiting players. He said they start looking at them "as early as 14 or 15".

I just think it's a snowball effect. If you go back 10 years, how many players verballed as a Junior? How many do now? How long before a Sophomore gives a verbal....if they haven't already?

And TPM and some others have suggested the showcases have changed the face of recruiting. Actually, I think it's the ever increasing amount of travel teams, training facilities and private instructors who are the catalysts. I don't know for a fact but would imagine that the skill sets of the players showcasing over the past 5 - 10 years have increased dramatically. I highly doubt the number of available scholarships have changed significantly over a 10 year period but do think the number of talented kids competing for the limited number of spots has significantly increased. I would suggest that this phenomenon is what has triggered the early recruiting. Kids and parents know the number of spots are limited and they know the competition is fierce and they know the good players verbal as a Junior, so they do what they can to position little Timmy to be seen by Clemson, LSU, USC, Cal State at an earlier age. Are they going to offer him as a Freshman? No but the hope is that he got their attention so that when it IS time to offer, he's already on their list, and hopefully at the top of the list.

Dear Fungo,

Thank you,...my breathing has eased,..my head is not spinning as fast as it was all summer.
I found peace in your posting.
I feel relieved.

We have a highschool jr who plays baseball. His lifetime dream is to play baseball.
We move from Hawaii to Kansas two years ago. POOF POW,...EVERYONE and their brother started telling us that we needed to get our son " showcased " and if we didnt hit the ground flying at warp speed, attending 100 miles per hour in multiple states, then we were ruining his chance of being seen and recruited by colleges. Huh?? What?? Wasn't him making Little League All-Stars every year he's ever played enough? Made Varsity his highschool freshman year, ...even started,...we were quite proud,.....got a 6A League Honor,..nope? Still not enough??? Some said we needed a scout to get us an invite? Others said we should have started this years ago? They cost hoooow much??? Gas has gone up to what price??? EEEEK!!!! Pant pant pant,...I have a migraine, perhaps because my head is spinning out of control. They have to run how fast for the 60 and throw how fast??? PING PING PING!!!! Perhaps I need to get a part time job to finance all of this,...perhaps my son can double the number of yards he mows.
Hmmmm,....logically I suppose it all makes sense,..especially because we are living in a little frog pond,...waaaay out Kansas,....what are the chances someone would see him while he plays summer ball in town? Who of big baseball college importance actually reads our little Mayberry town newspaper and sees his freckly-face and accomplishments highlighted in the sports section plastered all over my frig?
Perhaps my son has been a big baseball fish in only little ponds? How do we know? Worry*worry* worry. Whats the REAL talent out there, his age in other states? Ok,..I'm buying,...where do I sign him up?
Scan the www,...found HSBBW,...ok good,...recruiting,...showcasing,..tons of info,..where am I gonna get a scout??? Heyyy,..lookie there,..got some invites by splashing my sons face and stats on every site known to man kind,.( hhmmm,..is this safe?) Retract it all,...take him to only a few showcases,...he does average,...put him on a summer tournament traveling team,..he does really good.
Know some boys who did well, alot better than my son at the showcases, yet when we watched them play during the season we saw multiple errors and problems, even some painful not so desireable attitudes. Woops,...see,..there goes my head,..its starting to spin again!!!!

To be honest,...I have no idea what this all means,...its just been our life lately. My gutt keeps jumping in and telling my head,..hey ya know what?,..perhaps we are trying to bend fate into too many directions. Maybe we are dancing too fast to the routine? No one wants to be left out or miss out on an important opportunity,...but I think perhaps,..we should as many many HSBBW Old Timers keep saying,"Let the process happen". I think we've spent alot of time/money/& as someone else said before, lack of yardwork/etc. etc. trying to figure out what exactly THAT process is.

So to those who have helped us along the way,..and to those who wont cut us loose after this posting, we say thank youuuu sincerely!!!
Knowledge is key.

We have decided to do what feels right to us, at our pace, and try to find a balance. If the kids got talent,..he's gotta fit in somewhere!!

Thanks FUNGO,....it feels peaceful to know others have said this approach is ok.

quote:

Originally posted by shortstopmom:
We move from Hawaii to Kansas two years ago..

What were you thinking????

Hheee HHHee,...sounds crazy huh? ha!

Military needs,...er uh,...demands of the Army.

MD21

Welcome, as well! I agree completely with ClevelandDad. Learning to pitch effectively later in (baseball) life, 16 or 17 is not easy. The bottom line is that his talent with determine how well he does, as most everyone will work hard at the next level. Starting on the mound late mean catching up quick.

Your son's situation quickly reminded me of one of my sons teamates this year. He was a juco transfer and was a weekend starter all year. The Oakland A's drafted him in the 11th round in June. He turned pro in this, his 3rd year as a pitcher. He was converted from SS his freshman year in college. Jason did not pitch in high school.

Jason Fernandez in College

Jason in pro ball

MD21 - I agree with others that say it's difficult to become a pitcher later in career. HOWEVER, my son is a perfect example of one who's doing it. He was a CF in HS (pitched when he was young). His coach put him back on the mound for limited innings his senior year of HS. Ended up with a .52 ERA. He went to a JUCO for freshman year where he was recruited as an OF, but they ended up decided he would be a pitcher. Learned a tremendous amount there and used that year as a RS year. Went to a summer league this summer where he continued to grow in that role.

I think because pitchers are so in demand, many coaches are willing to give a kid a try in that position if they feel he warrants it, more so than any other spot on the field IMO. It might be a difficult thing to do, but can certainly be done!

Showcasing and camps may be more effective for a kid that's trying to convert into a pitcher because they can get a quick idea of how they stack up or interest that might be there.

Showcases definitely have value. In my view, the biggest advantage gained by them is becoming eligible for the high prospect teams such as AFLAC, Team One/Baseball Factory Cape Cod, Area Code and I'm sure a few others.

I would venture that attendance at at least one of each organizations showcases is mandatory for consideration.

I see far more value in the tournaments, especially the PG and WWBA events.

I have always said that potential does not score runs or win games. Showcases can determine potential, but do little to highlight game savy. I have noticed more times than not that the kid who does not fit the profile, but knows how to win is overlooked at showcase events.

PG and WWBA have started tournaments as young as 13. This in my view will give the players who make the transition to the 90 foot bases a stage at the earliest opportunity. This will have the added effect of discovering talent for national teams such as USA Baseball, especially if the 14 year old division is included in international play.

The other national and regional organizations can again promote themselves a bit more to attract the attention of parents and young players. I have noticed such organizations as PAL and others promoting themselves on professional games, maybe public service announcements.

Quote:
"We have decided to do what feels right for us, at our pace, and try to find a balance. If the kids got talent,..he's gotta fit in somewhere."

I think this was our attitude and it worked well for us. And mentioning the word "fit" is what it really is all about.

Beezer,
As far as showcases changing the face of recruiting, I think the tourneys have changed the face of recruiting more. More teams gathered in one place over a 4-5 day period is very economical for coaches.
In my opinion,one should approach individual showcases for skills assessment only. My son is going to play better for a team he has been with all summer than for one that was put together for that particular day. He's there for one purpose, pitch to the gun.
Again, the showcase should be an oportunity for your son to access himself, at an age when it is meaningful, which I don't see at 13,14. My son's first out of 2, was junior year and we never even attended with him. He went with a coach who took a few he thought should showcase for their own personal interests. Learning to adjust to the field dimensions should be learned as a player moves up at appropriate age.

I have always said your exposure to others should be in relation to your geographic location. Why does a talented player from Florida or California or Texas have to be seen in every venue throughout the country multiple times? These are the places the top recruits come from. I think the story about Lambert is a perfect example of what can happen when living in the north, where many will argue less talented players reside. I just think there is less opportunity. Those are the ones that need to be where the scouts and coaches are. The more you are isolated, the more you need exposure. You can't rely on HS (in most cases). I don't think this means running to every showcase or tourney in the country, but finding a balance for your pockets (unless they are deep) and where your son desires to play eventually.
I think what gets out of hand is when a parent takes their player to a showcase and determines their son needs "work". Now it's time for lessons, pitching, hitting, back to the showcase to see if money was well spent or not, higher rating. Thinking, the higher the rating the bigger program he will get into.
Sometimes it doesn't work that way, as in the case of Lambert, he pitched 3 innings in HS. He was obviously recruited on his potential and raw talent.

iitg,
I do sincerely hope that parents do listen to what I have posted time and time again. While attending a top program has it's definite upside, it has it's downsides.

As for the schools on PG's list, I am sure most of them do not even have to recruit by attending any event, they must get hundreds of letters a year from players wanting to attend their program. But instead of asking 40 to show up in the fall, they obviously use events to scrutinize the best players for their program. I am not usre it is always about skills either, but just watching a player from a distance as to his routine, his attitude, etc.

In conclusion,let me just be clear on one thing, I am not a strong proponant of individual showcases, in excess. For us, we used it as a tool for our son, for him to judge himself as I stated above. Also determined for him what division he most likely could play for, where he might fall in the draft. This way it gave HIM a direction as to where he might want to go to school or whether he wanted to go pro, at an age that was meaningful for him, not for us to see how good he was or wasn't. JMO

Hi, Fungo
I am a baseball mom in Texas and I do agree with parents investing alot of money into their child athlete's; however, with those investments you want to see your child succeed, and not fall short because they are not at a school with a high recruiting budget, or they are not the PG players, or even #1 or 2 on their team. We are happily investing into a brand new company, collegeballorbust.com, for a minimal cost of $500, to put my son into the grasp of college coaches that we have chosen. They give you a personal webpage, and update it accordingly throughout the season/year while he progresses. I know that it has been an awesome tool for his friends in football as well, because they want to promote kids who are not being seen, and expose them to the best of their abilities to increase their chances of going to college not only through scholarship, but also to play their sport that they have invested so much time, and energy into. Collegeballorbust.com is a site worth viewing for those of you with kids whose dream is to play ball of any kind, female and male alike, because the end result is your athlete making his/her own showcase to present to the college coaches not the recruiters.

I am just wondering if for free you could have gathered the info needed to promote your son to teh college coaches you have chosen and spent the money playing on a team or a showcase down there in Texas. I think coaches prefer to see players in action. Kind of hard to tell one's ability and talent from facts on a webpage. If you intend only to use this as a means of exposure, let us know the final results.

I think this was the original intention of Fungo's post, to spend one's money wisely.

Football recruiting is a lot different than baseball, JMO.

There is a free site where one can list their specs or have their coaches list their specs as well as a running log of their season's performance in various sports.

http://www.maxpreps.com/

This can be an invaluable site if HS coaches involve themselves in it.

It seems the theme or message here is players do not need to attend showcase events to be successful. I believe that is more true for those who do not have outstanding ability. There are just way too many cases of showcase events helping young talented players. I would bore everyone to death if I started giving the thousands of examples of players who benefited greatly.

I read about the players who have become very successful without attending many of these events. We know that it happens because it’s our job to know. We know that we received calls from Clemson about a young pitcher from Florida a few years ago. It was the fact that we saw that young pitcher in a showcase in Lincoln, Nebraska that we started following him closely (started a file on him) and really liked his potential. Without us seeing him at that time, we wouldn’t have been able to answer the questions from the recruiter at Clemson. Of course it was his ability and future performances that was the final determining factor. There is no doubt in our mind that this young man was going to be a successful pitcher in college and possibly professional baseball. No doubt he was going to be recruited by DI schools. It was just a matter of which ones.

Now here is the thing about successful players who have not attended showcase events. How do we know that their path was the very best path. Those who have been drafted and signed professional contracts… How do we know that they wouldn’t have been drafted in an earlier round and received a higher signing bonus had they done things differently? How do we know the player who has a small low level DI scholarship could have had a bigger scholarship at a higher level DI? The truth is… We don’t know. I don’t know and neither does anyone else. There are many cross roads a player can take. The only big money in baseball is when you sign your first contract and if you make it to the Big Leagues. If you look at the professional players these days there are some similarities.

Let’s look at some…

Carl Crawford – Extremely talented high school athlete in Houston. Scouts knew about him, but Scouting Directors and Cross Checkers never saw him play high level competition. He attended a winter showcase in Florida and over night became a potential first rounder. He then went to a Pre Draft showcase in Iowa and later became the first pick of the second round. Dan Jennings then the scouting director for the D’Rays tola us the showcases in Florida and Iowa was what sold them on Carl. Someone needs to askl Carl Crawford what HE thinks about showcases.

Scott Kazmir – Another Houston area player. I won’t get into the details, but if anyone knows Scott or his dad Eddie (who has posted here before), please ask them what they think of showcases.

Chris Lubanski – from Schwenksville, PA started going to PG showcases when he was a freshman in high school. He was a skinny kid with one tool at the time. He later became the 5th pick of the draft. Ask Chris or his dad Wally (who also posts here at times) what they think? You probably don’t have to because the proof is that younger brother Mike Lubanski has already started attending the same showcases.
Anyway, I could go on and on with thousands of examples. Some might say, players like Chris, Scott and Carl were going to be successful anyway. And they could be correct! But can we really know that Carl would have received 1.5 million to sign or Chris would have been drafted with the 5th pick had they not been so visible.

Lastings Milledge – Again we first saw Lastings when he was a 9th grader. He didn’t need us but he went to every PG Showcase he could. Someone should ask Lastings if he thought the showcases were good for him.

Brian McCann – From Georgia attended several events including the Pre Draft. He was selected in the second round by Atlanta by the scouting director that was completely sold on him after seeing him perform in Cedar Rapids, IA. The scouting director lives in Georgia.

To be honest the college recruits are some of the very best stories. The kids like Chris Lambert, Jim Negrych, Zach Schreiber, Lance Broadway, Trevor Crowe, Wade Townsend, Thomas Diamond, Shane Robinson, Jason Berken, Matt Antonelli, and thousands of others. Someone needs to ask Jason Berken what HE thinks of showcases!

High Level Showcases are not for everyone, that’s for sure. There are cases of those (Colt Griffin) who never attended any. But each year when you look at those being recruited by DI, DII and top Jucos you will see a VERY high percentage of players who have attended showcase events. When you look at the draft each year, you will see a very high percentage of players who have attended showcase events. Players do not need to go to these events, but they sure do need to know the facts.

It’s not just the event, it is the information. We have over 50 people who take calls and receive emails daily from college coaches and scouts who want information. I’m sure people can imagine the cost involved in this. We can only give the information if we have it. It’s not just a Perfect Game thing… We gather lots of information from other top events and organizations like East Coast Pro, Area Codes. USA Baseball, Connie Mack, North Carolina Games, etc. etc.

For those who might be interested here are several links that might shed some light on this subject… Some entertaining stuff! Sorry for the length of this post

The Draft

Draft Coverage

Scott Kazmir

Pre Draft

Why Attend

Winter Showcase

Scouts in the NE

2005 draft and more

3rd pick

Aflac Classic

Top High School Program

Former MLB Pitcher

Roger Clemens

Chris Lubanski Story

The Upton Family

A past PG National

The 2nd pick

A Scouting Director Interview

Reading for those who think our rankings are so incorrect

Outfielders ranked in 2003

Scout of the Year Award

An old HS report on Kazmir

More Player rankings to debate

MLB Executive

Fungo,
Thank you for starting this thread and I completely agree with you. There has to be perspective on the whole recruiting process. The showcases are just one part of the process and can be very important, but parents have to understand that it's only one part. The most important part is deciding where you want to go to school, why you want to attend that school and can you compete on the team at that level. The old saying "if your good enough they will find you" doesn't work. Your at the mercy of who finds you and is that the school that you really want to attend and play ball at? We learned very quickly that we had to do the target marketing and knocking on doors ourselves. I believe it's the parent and student's responsibility for creating their our own opportunities and any help we get along the way is an added bonus.

My son is an 06 LHP and will be going to school in a week at a mid level D1 that is an Honors University. He was recruited to play ball after attending their camp last summer, although there is no scholorship only the opportunity. He was also accepted at 2 D3's and these schools actively recruited him but there was no academic money and the cost was much higher for each school so we had a tough choice to make when finally selecting a school. We very happy with his choice and the opportunity he has for both academics and baseball.

My son did 2 showcases and 4 camps. We found the camps to be the most productive and informative. By attending the camps he created some good choices for school because the coach could watch him more closely. As we went through this process the list of schools narrowed down quickly because my son only wanted to apply to schools with engineering programs. We chose the camp route over showcases because these were the schools he was interested in and that showed interest in him. My son is a tall and lanky and throws in the low 80's, but knows how to pitch. The feed back we received from several D1's was that he didn't throw hard enough and they don't like to project. This year my son had a combined 16-1 record in HS/Legion ball and his only loss was in the Legion tournament. He was voted by opposing coaches, class LL Allstate for HS and for Legion Zone Outstanding Pitcher. In the 2 previous years he was 9-3 as a varsity starter and 11-2 on Legion. The recruiting process takes alot of time and effort and will have big highs and lows. We all just have to keep plugging along and try our best to maintain sanity.

We talk about the cost of recruiting and having a budget versus going crazy on spending, but the best thing that I have spent my money on for my kids over the past several years has nothing to do with baseball. I also have a daughter that will graduate from HS next year. In August 2004, we took a family vacation to Wales and London, 1st time for the kids and 2nd time for my wife and I. The 1st was our honeymoon 25 years ago. This past February, both my kids went to Rome with the Latin/History clubs at their HS. Without a doubt I have never spent money on anything better than these 2 trips (except for the honeymoon). I would do it again and go into debt if I had too, because I know 10 years from now they'll still remember these trips. The baseball experiences have been good but these 2 trips were life memories.

Okay, a few thoughts after reading all the more recent posts......I haven't taken notes and I am not going to look back, so take them for what they are, thoughts and observations:

--Tournaments have not changed the recruiting scene. Tournaments have always (at least up to 20 years ago) been the places where college coaches and ML scouts could go see many teams/many players in one location over the course of a few days..........Showcases are definitely what has changed the recruiting scene. This is my opinion, but it is also fact. I have been intimately involved in this scene for twenty years.

--Somebody had written that it is essential to attend a couple showcase type things for the potential of Aflac game, Area Codes, etc........some of us who contribute here have to remember that those events are for the elite, which is a miniscule percentage of the players out there. I think I can safely say that only a small percentage of the parents who read this have kids with the abilities to be chosen for the Aflac and Area Code games.

--Another post or two mentioned that they would rather have their son play for a small scholarship at a DI school than play at a DIII school. We must again remember that not all kids have the option of even a small DI scholarship. Those are limited to another very small percentage of players. DII schools, NAIA schools, and JUCOs also have scholarship money available, and in most cases a player will be able to contribute earlier at these schools than they would at most DI programs.

--Remembering PG's list of PG participants who have signed at the top 40-50 or so DI programs, I recall seeing approximately 3-4 per school who had not been PG participants, so therefore it is not an absolute that one must attend a PG event or any other event.

--Players do not have to travel south to be seen by college coaches and scouts. I personally know hundreds of college coaches and ML scouts in the north.

--Baseball players can learn to pitch late in their careers. In my several years as an NAIA coach, some of my better pitchers were guys who pitched little to never in high school. They had good arms and had some definciencies as hitters/position players but had very good college careers as pitchers.

Bottom line is that any and all baseball experiences can be good. Tournaments are good. Showcases are good. Travel teams are good. American Legion games/post-season tournaments are good. AABC participation is good. Individual lessons are good. What is right for one may not be right for another. What my kid did may not work for another. Nothing is necessarily wrong to do.....unless the player is doing something that he does not want to do.

quote:

Bottom line is that any and all baseball experiences can be good. Tournaments are good. Showcases are good. Travel teams are good. American Legion games/post-season tournaments are good. AABC participation is good. Individual lessons are good. What is right for one may not be right for another. What my did did may not work for another. Nothing is necessarily wrong to do.....unless the player is doing something that he does not want to do.

Grateful, You've just said what I've tried to express a couple of times, but did it much more eloquently. We must all remember when reading and sharing our experiences and suggestions that our kids have different desires and abilities and we, as parents, bring different experiences to the boards. Good advice!

Jerry,
Since I am very familiar with the player you are talking about from Clemson, hope that you didn't take what I said about showcases as a negative. He only attended two, both were PG, with positive results, but I do believe Sully first saw him play in Jupiter in fall of junior year. I do believe that game was "being at the right time and the right place", something I always talk about because that is where we saw the best results in terms of letters and his performance. I always say, if it wasn't for that tourney who knows if Sully would have seen him.
His first showcase with you was in Ft Myers in winter of his junior year, then in Lincoln. I do believe he didn't do as well in Linclon, pitching that week, wondering if that is why he never made the Aflac team, his velo was down. I think you had him on file before Lincoln.
The showcases for him were at the right time in his HS baseball career. Not too soon, not too late.

I don't think the theme is not to attend showcases, but how many is not enough and how many is too many.
I personally prefer wood bat tournaments, but definetly see a need for a player to attend a showcase.

What amazing information. We are lucky that we did not have to spend alot. Son was recruited by D1-DIII's. We sent our son to 2 showcases, one before his Jr. Year and 1 before his Senior year. Both were Perfect Game showcases and the cost was within our restrictive budget. Our son played for a solid select team before his Sr. year and that cost was minimal and within the budget. However he was invited to a number of showcases that were free. He attended Area Code and the Pitssburgh Pirates try-outs. These two along with the PG showcases and his hard work allowed my son to play at the next level. There was no need to hire a company to promote my son. His father and I made sure we had him seen as much as we could afford to have him seen. There are alot of opportunities to attend college camps that are 100.00 for the camp. These are the look at players camps that mny players go to. We set out what we could afford budget wise, made our son aware of that budget and used this opportunity to teahch him about money management and getting the best bang for the buck

quote:

In conclusion,let me just be clear on one thing, I am not a strong proponant of individual showcases

TPM,
I know you wrote "in excess" at the end of that sentence.

quote:

As for the schools on PG's list, I am sure most of them do not even have to recruit by attending any event, they must get hundreds of letters a year from players wanting to attend their program.

TPM,
I'm sure you know they do attend and/or follow these events very closely. My cell phone has logged many calls from Sully, among many other college recruiters. Also it's important to mention that the hundreds of letters they get can be important, but it's the letters and calls they send out that are the most important. I know you went on to explain "they use events to scrutinize the best players". I happen to believe they are there trying to find the best players, be they on their mailing list or not.

I have no problem with the facts. I know you are not our enemy and I consider you a friend. It's just that you have a lot of people reading and following your opinions. Sometimes people don't read the entire message. I would hate to see one outstanding player get the wrong message and avoid something that could help him tremendously! Like it has so many others. I'm not talking about just Perfect Game here... There are several things that young players can do without spending much money. I could care less if they choose to attend our events. But somewhere along the way... Someone other than the parents and high school coaches need to provide reliable information.

By the way, we keep files and reports on every player who attends our stuff. We pull these files up every time we get a phone call from a recruiter or scout and we list the contact. This is so we can track players closely as well as have a feel for what the colleges are looking for. I've pulled up David's file... Clemson contacted us in July that year. I think the Jupiter event could have been the first time they actually saw him pitch, but they knew about him before that. Since that year and until this year's World Series appearance they have been to all the big events. They called looking for as much info as they could get and ordered the scout packet within days of Clemson's season ending.

Anyway, I would like nothing better for all those with talented sons than for them to get the facts! Even if it exposes Perfect Game mistakes or faults. Please forgive me for being a bit touchy about this subject. We live with it every day!

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
But why did the title of the post "Cost of being recruited" turn into Showcase analysis?

Well...ummm...good question! My excuse is that my buddy JBB vented about the younger kids showcasing so I made a feeble attempt to analyze why that happens. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Although my son never attended any PG events ETC. I know from fiends that they can be very helpful. I have seen players who were highly rated at these events and stop going in the crucial year and the interest from recruiters/scouts dropped off. With thousands of players trying to get noticed you should do everything you can to be noticed especially the summer before and during HS senior year.
I feel that there are negative issues that have developed due to the rise of PG, area codes and others. Scouts tend to rely on them and not so much on tournaments. Parents who can't afford them feel compelled to spend money they don't have, Younger and younger kids are being drawn into the event mentallity. They feel I have to go inorder to play college ball or go pro. Many of them do not have the talent or the money to do these things.
The truth is it costs money to play baseball and a lot of money to showcase. It is not necessary to do all this but it sure helps. Also there are players who do all this who go nowhere as well. The real unlucky ones do all this, sign at a college and sit on a bench. The realities of baseball can be brutal regardless of all the events and tournaments you attend. I have followed several players over the years and it isn't always pretty.

Let's not kids ourselves here:

If your son is 6-feet-4, 220 pounds, throws 90 mph, runs a 6.7 60 and hits the ball like Herman Munster, he probably doesn't need to showcase. But he probably will, and probably spend less money than most of the rest of us.

If your son has a specific list of schools he is interested in, especially if they're relatively close to home, he might not need to showcase. You can do the school camps and get out of it what you need.

But if your son is like most of the rest, has some tools and some credits, is looking for a place to play, wants or needs money for school and needs to try to make a mark in that scholarship marketplace, he's going to have to showcase.

The amount of showcasing a player should do can be debated. And has. And will continue to be. And I don't think Jerry, or TR, or any of the other showcase folks who post here mind that.

But you've got to spend a little money to make a little. And, until and unless the recruiting rules change, the coaches are going to work the better showcases hard. And if you want/need to be seen, you have to go where they are.

Jerry,
Opps, maybe need clarification here.
I am thinking that you are thinking I am giving the wrong impression, so here goes.

I have supported PG always, I have never supported any others as son has never attended any others. Two wood bat tourneys, and two showcases run by PG. One MLB showcase run by the White Sox. Two summers with Florida Pokers and one UM camp. That was the extent of what son did for junior, senior year. For some that may not be enough, for him it worked out well. I don't understand why son was brought up in the first place regarding this thread. Most here know that I support PG. By the way, go to my profile to see where I first found out about the HSBBW.

Yes I used the word in excess. This thread is about the cost of being recruited with discussions of what worked for some and what didn't work for others. I come here as a parent, with no intention other than to help those out, especially when parents come with concerns they do not have the money to spend and feel somewhat inadequate compared to the neighbor who has been to every showcase or camp in the US. You might not understand that, but many parents will. And if I get a private pm about attending PG but the cost is not in their budget, then I tell them to call you personally. I Know that you have helped many in the past and will in the future.

As far as the schools you listed, what I meant to say WAS they don't have to attend showcases or tournaments to find players, they come to do so, to watch them play and as you said to find other players. They don't sit back and watch videos, that's for sure. You provide a valuable service for both scouts, coach and player and I think that most here know that through the years I always said that. I am sorry if you misunderstood about the list. I am confused as to why you would think otherwise.

As you have obviously pointed out, son is a perfect example of what good things can happen when attending a PG event. I also told a story about what happened to another player that was seen at your event. Not sure what else you want me to say.
I can also verify that Sully is most probably on the list for "attending most PG events". He is a very tireless recruiter, who I think that needs to really get to see the player over several times before he decides that player is right for the program. He is a large part of the success Clemson is enjoying. I have said on many occasions here, if you want to be seen by Clemson, go to a PG event. I happened to have called him a few weeks back, guess where he was!?

I am not really understanding why you are being so touchy about this. I appreciate what you have said about people reading and following my opinions, but understand my opinion is THAT of a PARENT and will always be so, not a professional, or one of those that continuously hide behind some name but claim they know the business well. You are one of the few credible ones here for parents to rely on.

I think what OldVaman said is the plain and simple truth. You have to go where they are - unless you are a major stud.

And you need to prepare WISELY as to WHICH ones to go to - and WHEN. Especially if you are from the northern parts of the country.

I am not shy about discussing my failures - because I think it may help others avoid the same mistakes - so here goes.

My eldest son went to only one PG showcase. He played in a bunch of PG tournaments over the years - but only attended 1 showcase). The underclassman event in Ft Myers in 2001 I think. At the time we lived in NY.

Idiotically - I sent him there in January. Never once did I even give it a thought that sending him in January might be a bad idea. Not once.
It was him - and a couple hundred kids from the South.

Take a guess what happened. LOL

He was ranked poorly - and I know it hurt him.
But it was our fault - not PG's.

I think parents do have a responsibility to help guide their young players as best as they can. I failed in that regard - and I hope others read this and understand - that if you go to a Top showcase like a PG event - you not only need to choose the right venue - you also need to make sure your son is ready to play.

Otherwise - you are just wasting your money. IMO

Take it from one who has done everything I could for my son to play baseball. The last three years I have payed alot of money for him to play baseball at what has been described as the #1 youth baseball program in the nation. That, I believe was a waste of my money. We changed schools when he went into high school so he could play at the highest level possible. Now after all that, I can't afford to send him anywhere right now. He was invited to the PG event at ECB in Sept., but won't be able to attend. I simply can't afford it right now. He was invited to an elite invitation only (no advertisement) camp at a large southeastern D-1 school last fall. The coach was commenting on showcases. He said that everytime you turn around there is another showcase. He would rather you come to his camp so his coaches can work with you and get to know you, if your interested in his program. I didn't post this to bash anyone or any program. Just to post what "I" have learned and what "I" would do different.
1. Find a good program with more than a name. Find a program where "all" the coaches are there for the advancement of their players. Not the enlargement of their egos. Don't pay for a name.
2. If you want to do a PG event, fine. Don't try and do every one of the 50 or 60 or whatever it is they have a year. Do one and then do a Blue Grey. I believe the coaches at Blue Grey are more personable that the ones I've seen around PG events. Maybe they were just having a bad day. Who knows. Maybe just me but I think Blue Grey trys to limit the number of players at showcases a little more.
3. When your son turns 16 do an MLB tryout for the experience. They are free. Puma tryouts and showcases are inexpensive.
4. Decide what schools your son is interested in and get him in front of the coaches at those schools.
5. Study..........study some more. That's one thing we did verg good with.

As it turns out, my son has been called and met with the first D-1 coach who seems interested. And contacted by a second D-1 coach. We'll see. The bottom line is he does not need baseball to go to school. And that's what it is all about. If you think little Jimmy is going to play pro ball and your going to get free seats behind home plate when he plays in the World Series, you need to check the odds of playing pro ball on another page. He has received academic letters from schools ranging from uGA to Carnegie Mellon University. Don't spend all your money on baseball. There have been a lot of ball players that did not go through PG. Or blue Grey. If your good you'll play. My son's instructer of 5 years was drafted out of high school and never went to PG. I wish all your kids the best of luck, whatever direction they go in. Parents, spend wisely. I apologize if I have offended anyone.

quote:

I come here as a parent, with no intention other than to help those out, especially when parents come with concerns they do not have the money to spend and feel somewhat inadequate compared to teh neighbor who has been to every showcase or camp in the US. You might not understand that, but many parents will.

*** thats Tiger Paw Mom,...she understands us,...and we thank her!!! ******

No personal or financial agenda,...I like that!

A good to high rating by organizations such as PG, Team One and Baseball America almost guarantees good D-1 program interest as well as the interest of pro scouts. A good showcase performance and/or rating is what players hope for.

I think the gist of the post is that there are many out there who will promise you the world, yet cannot deliver pizza. There are also players who have the dream but do not meet the requirements to be considered the 'elite' ballplayer.

I have spoken with some good savy ballplayers who know how to win, but they did not understand that showcases are not the places to hit singles. Some pitchers did not grasp that the radar gun was making the calls, not an umpire. Showcases are places where the hardest throwers, the longest hitters and the taller players get big attention. This is the nature of the rating system.

I have always felt that if you conform to the requirements of the rating system, wait for the time when you can perform at the optimum level in the showcase environment. I have found that the best showcase time frame is the summer after sophomore year.

If one has the rating, opportunities to perform on the large stage of that showcase organization will be available.

This usually does away with the need for recruiting services, in which I see little value.

As Fungo advises, pick your spots to lay your money down for the best investment.

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:

If you hit, or get guys out, you will remain playing!!

Aint that the truth!

You may do it in relative obscurity - but you WILL still be playing.

shortstopmom,
This is a great thread with great input from many, those that have pro players, those who have sons playing in college, had sons who played in college, coaches, players , parents going through the proces and professionals in the business.

The smart parent sorts though all that is said and decides which would be the best way to get their player to the next level, if he so desires to do so.

Something I forgot. I'll never forget when son's first showcase invitation arrived, I do beleive he was going into his sophmore year. I asked him if he wanted to attend, he said he had plenty of time to do that. With that being said, we LISTENED to him, and we did what he wanted to do, not what we wanted to do. He finally was ready when he was a junior. I think that is something very important to consider.

My son also had the great opportunity to try out for USA youth team, summer going into sophmore year. I never realized until later that was great exposure for him, and living here in FL, land of the scouts. I also found out that the area MLB scout had been watching him for years. But still in all, we felt that a good mix of senior summer ball, a few showcases and tournaments were still needed, even being one of those lanky over 6 footers throwing 90+ with a 4.2 GPA.

Many have shared their thoughts on showcases. Some think they're the best thing since sliced bread and others think they're a waste of time and money. But there are a lot of other baseball-related activities that one can choose not to spend a lot of money on. Such as recruiting services, which charge $500-$2000 and up. We'd rather write our own letters and emails for free. How about professionally-made videos? With tips from this site, I believe parents can put together a quality tape for a fraction of the cost. What about the Top Guns camp, which son received an invite to? Between the camp, hotel, meal, and travel cost, we believe our money can be better spent elsewhere, based on comments from parents whose kids have attended. How about the Stanford camp? Great for those who want to attend Stanford or ivy league schools, but not necessary for those who want to stay in the Southwest. I'm sure the list could go on and on....

PG Staff, one question for you. You mentioned Chris Lubanski being a skinny, one-tool kid when he came to his first PG showcase as a freshman. But when I searched for his reports on PG's website, the earliest showcase listed ranked him a 10. Did he score a 10 with only 1 tool?

I just have one question. Did Herman Munster bat righty or lefty? Up until now, I didn't even know he played ball. I must've missed that episode.

I don't know how many individual showcases you should go to. Still pondering that one myself. Seems to me a little will go a long way in that department.

But I'll tell you one thing, the tourneys are just flat-out FUN. It's a form of vacation. Don't count that as a recruiting expense. If your son gets recruiting brownie points out of it, great. But whether he did or didn't, your son got to play baseball and you got to watch and in my book, that's better than a day at the beach anytime. And if he never plays a single game at any college or in the pros, you'll be glad when you look back in 20 years and remember those tourney trips.

quote:

Posted by TPM: I can also verify that Sully is most probably on the list for "attending most PG events". He is a very tireless recruiter

You can say that again. We traveled to a bunch of tournaments Jr. to Sr. years in high school plus Area Code Tryouts. That Sully was always there. Not just PG events, either. Like a bunch of others, he was all over.

Herman was able to hit the ball out from either side of the plate in his tryout for the Dodgers and Leo Durocher.

The Munsters: "Herman the Rookie"
Season 1, Episode 29
First aired: April 8, 1965
by Jason Warren

Starring Fred Gwynne, Yvonne De Carlo, Al Lewis, Pat Priest and Butch Patrick. Guest starring Leo Durocher, Elroy "Crazylegs" Hirsch, Gene Darfler and Ken Hunt.