Curve Balls...

Never heard of that one before. What if he's a pitcher who can get his curve over and notices you're not swinging, then your up the creak. And even when you realize it and start to swing at it you won't be able to hit it because you haven't practiced it.

If your coach believes that most curve balls will not be strikes, it makes no sense to swing at a ball with two strikes.

With two strikes you swing at anything close enough for the umpire to even consider a strike.

On defense, once a pitcher is ahead in the count, he/she wants to throw non-strike pitches (12-6 curves, sliders, knuckle balls) for one or two pitches to have the batter strike out or make weak contact.

Coaching high schoolers over the years, we have often suggested that they lay off the duece. The statement is broad and can be viewed from different points.
A few are, many high school pitchers will not repeat pitches, so a fastball will be coming soon. Many pitchers at this age do not command their curves, and the key is command. This means they probably won't throw it where they'd like very often. The hitter is usually better at hitting the fastball and is taught to look dead red and adjust to breaking or off speed.
We would often turn the machine on with just curves and also have our designated bp pitcher throw lots of 'em. As a coach you can determine who the better curve ball hitters are. Some will not make good adjustments.
So the hitters who don't adjust well are told that they should lay off, but they don't have to. If a good pitcher see's this and repeats curves, the hitter will eventually have to swing at one of them, and a 2 strike defensive swing may be all he has left.

Curveball pitching sessions are not the way to learn how to hit the curveball......

Doggie, Good Will Hunting, rent it this weekend.

quote:

Curveball pitching sessions are not the way to learn how to hit the curveball......

BDog, would you mind sharing your thoughts here by expanding on this last statement...what have you determined thus far to be the best approach?

NYdad, think about this....It's something I have realized for awhile, but, is really becoming quite clear, now....You have come a long way in understanding swing movement efficiency and should be able to appreciate this...

The expert group around here, mostly coaches and/or ex-players, say people like myself make explanation of the swing process too complicated to understand....Yet, they complicate the learning curve by exposing players to curveball hitting sessions.....

Does what I am saying make any sense to you?

NYDad,

For what it is worth - and it is no biggie.

Common sense will tell you that when you are in a practice hitting situation - as a player - you work on what you feel you need to work on.

Regardless of what the current problem is - and there always is at least one - you work on your individual needs.

I cannot remember a single session of BP with my eldest - where at one point - he didnt want me to throw some curve balls.

To even remotely suggest that practicing hitting different pitches is a waste of time is ludicrous. It belies a complete lack of understanding of the process and the individual player and his needs.

IMO.

NYDad,

Let me give a real life example. No aminated swinging skeletons. A real human being.

For about the last 7 years - my eldest would come up to me during different times in the year - and say - "Dad - I am jumping at the curve again"

I would ask him - are you recognizing it?

He would say - "Yes Dad - I got it right away - but I'm jumping again. I need to work on not jumping on it and disrupting my swing."

So - we would go and work on it - I would throw some heat - and then mix a curve in.
Over and over again. Sometimes - 5 fastballs - and a curve - other times 1 fastball and 3 curves (You get the point).

Sometimes - he would ask for nothing but curves.

Then he would go back out on the field in his games - not the cyber screen - and smack the **** out of the curveball.

Then 3 months later - we would repeat the whole process because he started jumping again.

That is only one person's experience - but it is a real one - not an animated skeletal one.

That is why - when I read Bluedog's latest mumbo jumbo - I just laugh.

quote:

Then 3 months later - we would repeat the whole process because he started jumping again.

NYdad, now, does what I said make sense?

NYDad,

Given my experience with the Yoda-like questions from our Troll - I am going to bow out of this one for a bit - because he will start hammering my son soon. I can feel it coming.

LOL

Have fun!

Game, why don't you stick around for this one?......You know I've never hammered anyone's kid.....That's not me, at all.....

Doggie,

I'll take a pass on this one.

LOL

Been there - done that.

And after you learn to hit the curveball you will have to learn to hit the slider which is even tougher

But the good hitters learn and adapt

Slider hitting sessions, TRhit?

Very true TR - and usually it isnt the mechanics that are the problem. It is the mental part of the at bat that is the real issue.

Sometimes you get a bit overconfident - or a bit anxious. Whatever the issue - it happens to every player I have ever seen in my life - from Clemente to Jeter.

The mechanics are the easy part - its the mental part that is the tough part. IMO.

I have always taught players to hit the other way as soon as they see the spin when they face a same side pitcher and the pull when facing an opposing side pitcher.

This has usually allowed them to make the adjustment to the slower speed of the breaking ball.

It has produced good results over the years.

Willie,

He never really did that. He usually picked up the curve well and hit it where it was pitched.

If it was coming inside - he would turn on it. If it was away - he would go with it.

And when he was going bad - he would swing at first pitch curve balls - which I thought was a bad idea. Thats the mental part that you need to control IMO.

doggie

you are out of the equation--everyone here has finalized realized you are sham--get smart like richard and take your "doctrine of nothing" to another site--- in addition the steaks are sizzling on the grille--eating them beats debating with you

That is why I asked players to shy away from pulling breaking stuff.

I always found that when the pitcher was jamming you with it he wanted that pull swing.

By laying back to go the other way, the batter stays calmer to see the ball longer and make the adjustment.

I try to remove as much of the mental part of hitting as possible. I'm an old Yogi Berra fan.

Everyone is different I guess.

My eldest doesnt lay back on anything - ever.

He even eats his cereal aggressively.

LOL

quote:

Very true TR - and usually it isnt the mechanics that are the problem. It is the mental part of the at bat that is the real issue.

Sometimes you get a bit overconfident - or a bit anxious. Whatever the issue - it happens to every player I have ever seen in my life - from Clemente to Jeter.

I agree, the anxiety a player must feel knowing they don't hit a curve well and here it comes.

Uh-Oh. A new one. Troll ID# 126 - LOL

Nah - not what I said.

Try again.

quote:

The expert group around here, mostly coaches and/or ex-players, say people like myself make explanation of the swing process too complicated to understand....Yet, they complicate the learning curve by exposing players to curveball hitting sessions.....

Does what I am saying make any sense to you?

Sorry had to run out for a few... Believe I understand your logic here and that is teach and execute an efficient swing, which in itself does not deviate regardless of what type of pitch it is...your swinging to a pre-determined point of contact and the only real adjustment is posture...so along with pitch recognition and timing (which can’t be taught) you should see positive results.

p.s. BDog have you given any consideration to changing your screen name to “The Riddler”

TRBat and the Riddler.

That'd be a show.

Of course, there would have to be a Joker, too.

It seemed that when working with youth hitters, the biggest problem they had was recognizing the curve. They seemed to do pretty well hitting it, if they just recognized it. When they recognized it, they would wait for it. IOW, the problem seemed to be more timing than the hand/eye contact aspect.

NYdad, absolutely....

Pitch recognition is using vision properly........An area that is far too misunderstood.....

quote:

the biggest problem they had was recognizing the curve. They seemed to do pretty well hitting it, if they just recognized it

See what I mean?......

Actually - most normal human beings would read your latest 4 word question/answer troll blurb - and have no idea what you mean - or even what planet you live on.

LOL

I've also noticed because we don't hit the curve well, the kids wind up looking curve and trying to catch up to the fastball instaed of vice versa.

An endless cycle because hitters are confused....

But, coaches will set up curveball pitching machines in the cage thinking they are helping their hitters....

We always thought that by letting them see a few curves, they might know what to look for and thus be working on recognition.

I do have a nephew that has never made an out on a curve, never struck out on a curve. Come to think of it, he's never seen a curve, but he constantly theorizes on why his favorite MLB'ers can't hit one. I don't understand why anyone can't hit one since they are only moving in our imagination.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
An endless cycle because hitters are confused....

But, coaches will set up curveball pitching machines in the cage thinking they are helping their hitters....

This is an example of my favorite troll technique:

Make a baseless statement.
Sometimes with a lead-in from another id.

Then answer that baseless statement with a baseless answer.

Then congratulate yourself - and use additional ids to tell yourself how good your baseless advice is.

LOL

Just too funny! 3 years and counting.

Some great double talk coming out of the dog.
n.
You learn by doing it over and over. Perfect practice makes perfect. Recognizing a CB and learning to stay back on it is the most important thing about hitting a CB. One of the objectives is to pull the batter forward shifting his weight forward so that if contact is made it is usually a weak ground ball or pop up. A pitcher swithches pitches to upset the batters rythm.

A former professional player told me the worst advice a hitter gets on hitting curve balls is to stay back. He said you have to stay back to hit any pitch.

The key to hitting a curve. Don't go to it, let the barrel feed to it. Another key, swing fast.

quote:

You learn by doing it over and over.

Actually, you learn by good instruction....Whether you figure it out for yourself, or, it comes from someone else.....

Yes you have to stay back to hit any pitch . You point is sensless. A great CB will get young batters coming forward.
Dog instruction from a proper hitting professional is always thye key to good hitting. Thats why "Perfect Practice" makes perfect makes perfect.
As TR said you don't know what you are talking about
Your posts are revealing.
".ALL pitches drop.....A hitter must recognize the curving pattern of the curveball early on.....The pattern develops as soon as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand.....It doesn't go straight for awhile, then curve....Is it a 12-6 or does it sweep?.....What's the speed and how much is it breaking?....All this information has to be recognized early, long before the ball reaches the hitting zone...."
This is just one of your brilliant statements. I had several to choose from.

quote:

A great CB will get young batters coming forward.

Bubblehead, have you ever heard of weight shift momentum?....

Telling hitters to stay back is, well, not a very smart thing to do.....

quote:

One of the objectives is to pull the batter forward shifting his weight forward.....

Hitters should do this.....They should be taught to do it.....All MLB hitters do it....