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CWS Discussion

P PlayWithEffort5,000+ posts

North Carolina and MSU advance to winners bracket with wins over Oregon State and Washington, respectively.

I thought that OSU might win the opener but the Tarheels started hot and  knocked OSU’s starting pitcher out early.

MSU’s magical post season just keeps on rolling with another walk off hit to put them in the winners bracket.

Today, we have Arkansas vs Texas in the early game and Texas Tech vs Florida in game two.

Should be some good baseball.

Who does everyone have winning today? 

 

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TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

Arkansas, Florida.

I think that UNC only had their starter in for 1 inning.  I think the wind and temperatures have a lot to do with that game and caught both teams off guard.  Heimlichs pitches have crazy movement. He will be able to pitch again this week.

I liked Washington's approach. Keep everything on the ground.

Arkansas, UF for the win today. I DONT want to see an SEC matchup for the championship. The committee said they wanted to avoid that, but poor planning.

Would like to see an ACC vs SEC matchup.

P PlayWithEffort5,000+ posts

It sure seems like the committee did a lot to keep that from happening. SEC schools were matched up with each other in the same sides of brackets a lot.

Arkansas has faced Florida, Texas Tech, Texas, and Mississippi State in the regular season this year prior to Omaha. Obviously,  the SEC’s remaining schools have faced each other but that’s still a pretty crazy stat for Arkansas considering there are only 8 teams left.

I’d like to see that ACC SEC matchup too but I’m not sure how I feel about the committee manipulating the bracket to avoid a single conference matchup. 

D d-mac10,000+ posts
TPM posted:

Arkansas, Florida.

I think that UNC only had their starter in for 1 inning.  I think the wind and temperatures have a lot to do with that game and caught both teams off guard.  Heimlichs pitches have crazy movement. He will be able to pitch again this week.

I liked Washington's approach. Keep everything on the ground.

Arkansas, UF for the win today. I DONT want to see an SEC matchup for the championship. The committee said they wanted to avoid that, but poor planning.

Would like to see an ACC vs SEC matchup.

It should be about the two best teams in the championship game. The NCAA should not be manipulating the bracket.  

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

The brackets go all the way back to how teams were seeded headed into the regionals. If things went according to plan (no upsets) #1 would play #2 in the best of three finals. Stanford was the #2 seed.

Nothing was rearranged for the CWS. There wasn’t one SEC #1 seed set up to face another SEC #1 seed in the next round. Any SEC v. SEC matchups have occurred due to a lower seed beating a higher seed. It’s by pure chance (upset wins in their region) the two teams with the worst records played each other in the first round of the CWS.

https://www.ncaa.com/interacti...ket/baseball/d1/2018

Last edited by RJM
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
MidAtlanticDad posted:

3 games on the schedule today, and more bad weather. Frustrating.

This is not a new situation. It rained when we went to Omaha and that was a while ago. With such hot days, mid afternoon storms are inevitable. The teams also plan their activities around their schedules and transportation is based on wins and losses.

Unfortunetly the schedule is based on ESPNs programming. With this weather you have to start the first game earlier. Not because its costing the NCAA more money but because its frustrating for the players.

P PlayWithEffort5,000+ posts
TPM posted:
MidAtlanticDad posted:

3 games on the schedule today, and more bad weather. Frustrating.

This is not a new situation. It rained when we went to Omaha and that was a while ago. With such hot days, mid afternoon storms are inevitable. The teams also plan their activities around their schedules and transportation is based on wins and losses.

Unfortunetly the schedule is based on ESPNs programming. With this weather you have to start the first game earlier. Not because its costing the NCAA more money but because its frustrating for the players.

Agree with you on the weather. Starting earlier makes sense but I do think they are trying to balance the different times zones for TV coverage. 2PM CT, obviously, is a noon start on pacific time. 

When March Madness has 64 teams, they start early on Thursday and Friday and then move to prime time as the field narrows. Of course, they play indoors too.

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Coach_May posted:

Well if you listen to the ESPN crew they should cancel the rest of the CWS and just give the trophy to OSU. 

When there’s a blowout the announcers job is to keep viewers from changing the channel. They typically make it seem like if you change the channel you will miss something special. And the team is loaded. They have the best record over the past two years.

Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts

There is no doubt their team is loaded. I believe they are the most talented team in the tourney. And I could see them excessively gloating over one team the entire night if the only people watching were OSU fans. But I highly doubt that's the case. The problem I have with ESPN is they can't get off of something once they get on it. From a rally banana to a player's walk up routine. They make me want to change the channel. But I could be the only one that stuff bothers and that wouldn't surprise me either.  

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Coach_May posted:

There is no doubt their team is loaded. I believe they are the most talented team in the tourney. And I could see them excessively gloating over one team the entire night if the only people watching were OSU fans. But I highly doubt that's the case. The problem I have with ESPN is they can't get off of something once they get on it. From a rally banana to a player's walk up routine. They make me want to change the channel. But I could be the only one that stuff bothers and that wouldn't surprise me either.  

There’s no doubt ESPN beats a theme to death. If you use “banana” for the drinking game when Mississippi State is playing you won’t be able to stand for the 7th inning stretch. Then there’s Ben McDonald who thinks there’s only one conference in college baseball. 

Last edited by RJM
P PlayWithEffort5,000+ posts
RJM posted:
Coach_May posted:

There is no doubt their team is loaded. I believe they are the most talented team in the tourney. And I could see them excessively gloating over one team the entire night if the only people watching were OSU fans. But I highly doubt that's the case. The problem I have with ESPN is they can't get off of something once they get on it. From a rally banana to a player's walk up routine. They make me want to change the channel. But I could be the only one that stuff bothers and that wouldn't surprise me either.  

There’s no doubt ESPN beats a theme to death. If you use “banana” for the drinking game when Mississippi State is playing you won’t be able to stand for the 7th inning stretch. Then there’s Ben McDonald who thinks there’s only one conference in college baseball. 

It wasn’t just OSU they were gloating over. I thought we were going to get an update on Clemens brushing his teeth before going to bed at night. 

They were all over Kody and Roger during the Arkansas / Texas game.

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
PlayWithEffort posted:
RJM posted:
Coach_May posted:

There is no doubt their team is loaded. I believe they are the most talented team in the tourney. And I could see them excessively gloating over one team the entire night if the only people watching were OSU fans. But I highly doubt that's the case. The problem I have with ESPN is they can't get off of something once they get on it. From a rally banana to a player's walk up routine. They make me want to change the channel. But I could be the only one that stuff bothers and that wouldn't surprise me either.  

There’s no doubt ESPN beats a theme to death. If you use “banana” for the drinking game when Mississippi State is playing you won’t be able to stand for the 7th inning stretch. Then there’s Ben McDonald who thinks there’s only one conference in college baseball. 

It wasn’t just OSU they were gloating over. I thought we were going to get an update on Clemens brushing his teeth before going to bed at night. 

They were all over Kody and Roger during the Arkansas / Texas game.

What are the Conines doing this week? 

P PlayWithEffort5,000+ posts
RJM posted:
PlayWithEffort posted:
RJM posted:
Coach_May posted:

There is no doubt their team is loaded. I believe they are the most talented team in the tourney. And I could see them excessively gloating over one team the entire night if the only people watching were OSU fans. But I highly doubt that's the case. The problem I have with ESPN is they can't get off of something once they get on it. From a rally banana to a player's walk up routine. They make me want to change the channel. But I could be the only one that stuff bothers and that wouldn't surprise me either.  

There’s no doubt ESPN beats a theme to death. If you use “banana” for the drinking game when Mississippi State is playing you won’t be able to stand for the 7th inning stretch. Then there’s Ben McDonald who thinks there’s only one conference in college baseball. 

It wasn’t just OSU they were gloating over. I thought we were going to get an update on Clemens brushing his teeth before going to bed at night. 

They were all over Kody and Roger during the Arkansas / Texas game.

What are the Conines doing this week? 

Kody was just getting a lot of love. He’s obviously one of their marquee guys so it makes sense but it got a little over bearing during the broadcast. Of course Roger was there in the stands so he got a lot of camera time too.

It just felt like they had a lot of material ready. I guess they need to support the Longhorn network too.

I was pulling for Arkansas so I might have noticed it more than most. 

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

Wow to the OSU/UNC game. Not the result I expected, but I guess when the fog rolled in, the boys from Oregon felt right at home. The weather has been crazy, but cooler weather makes the experience more enjoyable.Rain today, low of 59. 

The guy fast asleep in the stands made my day.

C Camm1,000+ posts
TPM posted:

Wow to the OSU/UNC game. Not the result I expected, but I guess when the fog rolled in, the boys from Oregon felt right at home. The weather has been crazy, but cooler weather makes the experience more enjoyable.Rain today, low of 59. 

The guy fast asleep in the stands made my day.

The tv announcers had UNC winning it - "UNC has just six outs to go" - and then whoa boy, did OSU ever change that in two innings!

younggunyounggun5,000+ posts
Coach_May posted:

Final 4 set and 3 of the teams from the SEC. 

I’ll admit I am a homer and I’m certain I’ll get blasted, but I think this confirms the argument of the best conference. Last year you had an all SEC final and this year 3 of final 4. I realize the parity in college baseball, but that even further supports the argument, IMHO.

I’m not saying that Oregon State won’t win, but Arkansas and Florida are EXTREMELY talented. I think Miss State is a little overmatched from a talent standpoint, but yet they figure out a way to survive. I expect OSU will ultimately win that bracket. Whomever wins the other bracket is going to give the Beavers all they want and then some. Will be fun to watch. If it comes down to OSU, UF and Arkansas, I can honestly say those are the 3 best teams this year. 

After saying all that, Miss State will probably win it all!

A 9and7dad10,000+ posts

I won't be doing any blasting.  The SEC is a very, very talented conference.  I think by playing every weekend in a tough conference, in big stadiums, with crowds in attendance, prepares the SEC teams very well for the stage that is the CWS.  They get battle tested all spring and that is the best way to make a run for the national championship.  Not many "light/easy" weekends on the SEC conference schedule, or the conference tournament for that matter.

Last edited by 9and7dad
S Scotty835,000+ posts
younggun posted:
Coach_May posted:

Final 4 set and 3 of the teams from the SEC. 

I’ll admit I am a homer and I’m certain I’ll get blasted, but I think this confirms the argument of the best conference. Last year you had an all SEC final and this year 3 of final 4. I realize the parity in college baseball, but that even further supports the argument, IMHO.

I’m not saying that Oregon State won’t win, but Arkansas and Florida are EXTREMELY talented. I think Miss State is a little overmatched from a talent standpoint, but yet they figure out a way to survive. I expect OSU will ultimately win that bracket. Whomever wins the other bracket is going to give the Beavers all they want and then some. Will be fun to watch. If it comes down to OSU, UF and Arkansas, I can honestly say those are the 3 best teams this year. 

After saying all that, Miss State will probably win it all!

One could argue the only reason there is only 3 sec teams in the final 4 is because of the way the supers pairings fell only 3 could make it. 

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

My ideal situation of the CWS is 2 teams, unknown to each other on the field, battling it out. 

 FL looked pooped out, Singer looked pooped as did the rest of the Gators. I missed the first game.

I think Mississippi has had its run, so an OSU/AK matchup in the finals is OK with me. 

 

justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
younggun posted:
Coach_May posted:

Final 4 set and 3 of the teams from the SEC. 

I’ll admit I am a homer and I’m certain I’ll get blasted, but I think this confirms the argument of the best conference. Last year you had an all SEC final and this year 3 of final 4. I realize the parity in college baseball, but that even further supports the argument, IMHO.

I’m not saying that Oregon State won’t win, but Arkansas and Florida are EXTREMELY talented. I think Miss State is a little overmatched from a talent standpoint, but yet they figure out a way to survive. I expect OSU will ultimately win that bracket. Whomever wins the other bracket is going to give the Beavers all they want and then some. Will be fun to watch. If it comes down to OSU, UF and Arkansas, I can honestly say those are the 3 best teams this year. 

After saying all that, Miss State will probably win it all!

I think Oregon State is the best team, with as much/more talent than anyone, but Arkansas is in a better position to win it all.

The SEC is a great conference - no doubt.  But without getting into an argument, the process (RPIs, seedings, pairings...) seems to be set up a little better for them to have more chances to get teams there. Gotta get there to win it.

Given the overall historical success of teams West of the Mississippi vs. East of it, I'm not ready to hand the SEC the "best conference" crown.  Not saying they aren't, just not quite so clear to someone who has lived on both coasts and seen plenty of college baseball East to West.

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
justbaseball posted:
younggun posted:
Coach_May posted:

Final 4 set and 3 of the teams from the SEC. 

I’ll admit I am a homer and I’m certain I’ll get blasted, but I think this confirms the argument of the best conference. Last year you had an all SEC final and this year 3 of final 4. I realize the parity in college baseball, but that even further supports the argument, IMHO.

I’m not saying that Oregon State won’t win, but Arkansas and Florida are EXTREMELY talented. I think Miss State is a little overmatched from a talent standpoint, but yet they figure out a way to survive. I expect OSU will ultimately win that bracket. Whomever wins the other bracket is going to give the Beavers all they want and then some. Will be fun to watch. If it comes down to OSU, UF and Arkansas, I can honestly say those are the 3 best teams this year. 

After saying all that, Miss State will probably win it all!

I think Oregon State is the best team, with as much/more talent than anyone, but Arkansas is in a better position to win it all.

The SEC is a great conference - no doubt.  But without getting into an argument, the process (RPIs, seedings, pairings...) seems to be set up a little better for them to have more chances to get teams there. Gotta get there to win it.

Given the overall historical success of teams West of the Mississippi vs. East of it, I'm not ready to hand the SEC the "best conference" crown.  Not saying they aren't, just not quite so clear to someone who has lived on both coasts and seen plenty of college baseball East to West.

Why doesn't the Pac12 play for conference championship like every other conference does? Asked this before never got a real answer. The conference champion, regardless, gets an automatic bid. 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
justbaseball posted:

Don’t know. Might be related to a lot of them being in quarters which means they’re in finals at that time. But I don’t know. 

Not every Pac 12 school is on the quarter system. I was surprised Cal isn’t when UCLA is. UCLA’s finals were from the 9th to the 15th. The tournament was already in Super Regionals. 

The problem is the regular seasons runs up to the week before regionals. The season schedule would have to be adjusted.

Last edited by RJM
JCGJCGStill working on a clever handle

It's too bad that the Pac 12 doesn't have a tourney.  

The unfortunate fact is that this year two Pac 12 teams really underperformed in the regionals. Others, like Arizona, Cal, and ASU just couldn't take advantage of talented rosters.   Maybe a Pac 12  tournament would help with that.  Also, as discussed here recently, the Big West only had one team in the bracket and it didn't have the kind of impact it usually has had.  

If one of the 3 surviving SEC teams wins the CWS it'll be hard to argue that they are the preeminent conference, at least this year.  If OSU wins, well, at least there's another side to the argument.

Last edited by JCG
P PlayWithEffort5,000+ posts
justbaseball posted:
younggun posted:
Coach_May posted:

Final 4 set and 3 of the teams from the SEC. 

I’ll admit I am a homer and I’m certain I’ll get blasted, but I think this confirms the argument of the best conference. Last year you had an all SEC final and this year 3 of final 4. I realize the parity in college baseball, but that even further supports the argument, IMHO.

I’m not saying that Oregon State won’t win, but Arkansas and Florida are EXTREMELY talented. I think Miss State is a little overmatched from a talent standpoint, but yet they figure out a way to survive. I expect OSU will ultimately win that bracket. Whomever wins the other bracket is going to give the Beavers all they want and then some. Will be fun to watch. If it comes down to OSU, UF and Arkansas, I can honestly say those are the 3 best teams this year. 

After saying all that, Miss State will probably win it all!

I think Oregon State is the best team, with as much/more talent than anyone, but Arkansas is in a better position to win it all.

The SEC is a great conference - no doubt.  But without getting into an argument, the process (RPIs, seedings, pairings...) seems to be set up a little better for them to have more chances to get teams there. Gotta get there to win it.

Given the overall historical success of teams West of the Mississippi vs. East of it, I'm not ready to hand the SEC the "best conference" crown.  Not saying they aren't, just not quite so clear to someone who has lived on both coasts and seen plenty of college baseball East to West.

I can see your point about the setup in conference RPIs being a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy but that only rewards you if you win enough. Kentucky is a heck of a ball club and they were left out.

I don’t know about the rest of the SEC but Arkansas’ out of conference schedule was absolutely brutal.

The hogs played Arizona, Texas Tech, Texas, Dallas Baptist and Missouri State out of conference during the regular season.

They caught Texas Tech and Texas again in the post season plus South Carolina and Florida again as well.

 

P PlayWithEffort5,000+ posts
hshuler posted:

No matter who wins the ‘ship, the SEC is the best conference. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. 

Oregon State is a very talented team, they are really fun to watch and maybe the best team in college baseball...but if we remove all biases, it’s clear which conference is best. 

Including this year and going back to 2008 in the CWS, the SEC has had a team in the championship series 12 times. Twice, during that time, it was an all SEC final.

Florida, LSU, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, South Carolina and now Arkansas make up the list.

3 teams from the SEC East and now 3 from the West. If Miss State wins today, it will be 13 appearances since 2008 and the 3rd  time for an all SEC final.

 

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

There will always be more  SEC teams because there are more SEC teams!

Kentucky would have only gotten in only if they won the conference. With a 13-17 conference record and a 31 RPI it wasn't going to happen.  That's the nature of the beast in the SEC, 

I subscribe to the theory, the better competition you face, the better your team becomes. Arkansas certainly is that example!

 

justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
hshuler posted:

No matter who wins the ‘ship, the SEC is the best conference. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. 

Oregon State is a very talented team, they are really fun to watch and maybe the best team in college baseball...but if we remove all biases, it’s clear which conference is best. 

I've watched a LOT (as in over 1,000 games) of baseball on both coasts.  I've been into the heart of the SEC for a regional (great atmosphere!) with an SEC team that made it to Omaha vs. a 3rd place Pac12 team and a 1st place ACC team.

Its not clear to me.

Last edited by justbaseball
hshulerhshuler10,000+ posts
justbaseball posted:
hshuler posted:

No matter who wins the ‘ship, the SEC is the best conference. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. 

Oregon State is a very talented team, they are really fun to watch and maybe the best team in college baseball...but if we remove all biases, it’s clear which conference is best. 

I've watched a LOT (as in over 1,000 games) of baseball on both coasts.  I've been into the heart of the SEC for a regional (great atmosphere!) with an SEC team that made it to Omaha vs. a 3rd place Pac12 team and a 1st place ACC team.

Its not clear to me.

Point taken. 

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

 Idont have a dog in this fight.

It's very interesting to me that OSU really didn't play their best until the cooler weather set in.

Arkansas absolutely had the better schedule vs RPI and showed a willingness to play west coast teams away and at home.  There is a reason why they are the #1 team in the SEC. 

I just wish the Pac12 would have a conference championship the way all other conferences do.

Either way should be a great final series. 

 

justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts

A few more thoughts on this....

Its hard for me to root for Oregon State.  Their fans, by far, treat opposing teams' parents and players the worst I've seen anywhere - either coast.  OTOH, its an incredible environment if you play on their team, but as an opposing family - I prefer Ole Miss, Baylor, UNC, etc... and even Texas to OSU even though all of them have terrific home team environments as well.

I came around on Pat Casey, who I didn't particularly like much either (guilt by association?) - until he did something incredibly classy relative to our younger son.  Showed me something I couldn't observe from the stands and so I do root for him.

My wife's family originates from Arkansas - they are solid Razorback fans, although my wife is close to neutral on them.   And I agree - they had the toughest schedule in America this year.  (She still can't root for OSU - due in part to many personal encounters with their fans in their stadium over 2 sons/8 years). 

So I'm probably 'ok' with either team winning.  While they were the number-1 seed, I couldn't see how Florida could win it this year - they just looked vulnerable to me starting with their regional - and that finally caught up with them.  Washington was a little fortunate to get to Omaha, but they competitively lost their first game 1-0 in the 9th to Miss. State.  Stanford (number-2 seed) was as good as any of these teams, but I could see their loss coming as they tailed off at the end of the year.

Its about being hot at the right time as much as anything - however, I do feel like the two best teams are in the finals.

BTW, I do think Arizona and Cal had good cases to be in this tournament.  If that conference was in the SE or East Coast, I bet they woulda been in.  Likewise, put the SEC or ACC on the West Coast and they likely get two less teams due in part to the way the RPI is calculated and the fact that their games are rarely seen on the East Coast (heck, I don't even stay up to watch them - I have both the Pac12 and SEC networks).  Washington had the lowest RPI for any at-large team, yet they made it.  While I said they were somewhat fortunate, I didn't say they were lucky.  They were a very good team.  Illustrates a little bit of the RPI problem.

Last edited by justbaseball
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

The way it was explained to me, there are 4 ways a team can make the 64 field. 40 wins,  under 40 RPI, top 25 ranking all season or automatic bid by winning the championship. You must show the committee a winning record in your conference. You can't make the field unless you win your championship if lacking in conference wins and I think that is where the Pac 12, loses out. 

I agree about Florida, who had important players injured down the stretch. They didn't really struggled as the #1 team, but I don't think it was their year. 

The SEC and will always have the most teams, and of course the conference with the most teams with home field advantage. They also have the most fans in attendance1

 

justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts

I think if Cal or Arizona had won a Pac12 tournament, it just woulda knocked Washington out of the tournament due to the RPI issues.  Hard for me to see how it addresses the issue of perception that I think exists.

FSU will almost always be over-seeded.  The Pac12 will be limited to 3-4 berths.  Just the way its been for a while now.

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

TD, 

If Cal or AZ won it's possible, depending on the conference RPI. And how many auto bids they have to give out overall.  

It's not always a best scenario situation. The results this year were surprising but I think when big conference teams battle it out in their tournaments it hurts down the road. I think both Clemson and FSU pooped out the week before regionals. So did South Carolina

FSU got a higher seeded regional over Clemson because they won the ACC title. Clemson got screwed.

Couple of teams got the shaft, but overall it all comes out in the wash. It's a tough road to Omaha, and you can't make it unless you havec enough consistant arms.

RedFishFoolRedFishFool5,000+ posts
2019Dad posted:

https://www.ncaa.com/news/base...lehold-college-world

This surprised me: "They’ve played four NCAA tournament games against the SEC — two against LSU and two here against Mississippi State — and gone 4-0. Not a soft 4-0, either. Combined score of those games: 43-4."

LSU and MSU are not dominant this year. They are good but not great. MSU has won two of the playoff games with walk-offs, maybe both were even elimination games.  Had MSU not had a good weekend series against Florida, they may have not even made the SEC Tournament nor the NCAA playoffs. Saying all that, the SEC is deep and has many good teams.  Florida was playing well early in the year but severely tailed off later in the season.  Arkansas is a very good team, offensively and pitching wise.  Many of the SEC teams had to play in the same Regional and Super Regional brackets.

You will see the post earlier that I picked Arkansas to win their side of the bracket and I picked OSU to win the other side and that is even after OSU lost their first game. I hope the Razorbacks win but I pick OSU to take it all. I hope that I'm wrong.

S.P.S.!!!!!

fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
PitchingFan posted:

Thoughts on Mississippi State not hiring Henderson?  I would love to know what the players thought.  He stepped in and led them through a tough year.

TPM posted:

Word is out he really didnt want the job in the first place. All recruiting responsibilities and final word is on the HC.  

I was shocked it was not offered to Henderson and then shocked again with TPMs post that he didn't want it.   So, the question needs to be asked where is he going next, and what is he going to do.  He is too good of a coach.  There is something else going on here that is not public yet...just a feeling.

PitchingFanPitchingFan10,000+ posts

Quoted from two different articles:

Henderson wants the job

After remaining silent for weeks about the prospects of having the "interim" tag dropped from his title, MSU interim head coach Gary Henderson made his case for taking over the job permanently when asked directly about it at the post-game press conference.

"I'm just really optimistic," Henderson said. "That's coach (John) Cohen's decision. He'll do a good job with it. We're kind of in, you know? And we'd like to stay there."

Henderson brought his entire coaching staff into the interview room and talked about how each of them had made a significant contribution to the Bulldogs' miracle run to the brink of the championship series.

"I love this assistant coach staff that we have," he said. "We have started something special. The fans are in, and we'd like to stay and make a run of it."

Henderson wasn't the only one pushing his ascension, either. When it came time for Oregon State coach Pat Casey — a friend of Henderson's — to speak, he immediately mentioned Henderson and credited him with the Bulldogs' success.

"What a tremendous club they have," Casey said. "Gary Henderson — the job he's done at Mississippi State is second to none, and that's pretty impressive. And my hat's off to him and the whole deal. It's a tough day when you lose at Omaha, but it only takes a day or two for everybody to realize how special it was to get here."

 

 

 

Cohen could have handed the keys to the program to the man who just orchestrated State’s improbable run in 2018 as interim head coach – his good friend Gary Henderson. Instead, Cohen opted for Lemonis.

“When I was charged with moving our program forward, I couldn’t allow personal feelings, friendship or anything to interfere with moving this program forward for the next 10 years,” Cohen said. “That’s what I was committed to doing.”

Cohen did note that Henderson will have the opportunity to remain at MSU in some capacity should he choose to do so, and if not, Cohen will support that decision as well.

“Gary Henderson is not going to be kicked to the curb,” Cohen said. “Gary Henderson is going to be a part of Mississippi State as long as he chooses to be. Certainly if he chooses to be a head coach or an assistant coach anywhere, I’m going to help him as I’ve always done.”

 

S Smitty2810,000+ posts
PitchingFan posted:

Great job last night by Arkansas.  Thoughts on interference call?  I think it was a good call but I'm sure others will disagree.

I don't know what the rule is but there was definitely no interference and the runner stopping and ducking in no way affected the play, so in this sense I think it was either a horrible call or its a horrible rule.  I'm fine with calling him out if his action affected the play, but that was ridiculous.

younggunyounggun5,000+ posts
Smitty28 posted:
PitchingFan posted:

Great job last night by Arkansas.  Thoughts on interference call?  I think it was a good call but I'm sure others will disagree.

I don't know what the rule is but there was definitely no interference and the runner stopping and ducking in no way affected the play, so in this sense I think it was either a horrible call or its a horrible rule.  I'm fine with calling him out if his action affected the play, but that was ridiculous.

The rule is you must slide directly into the bag if there is a play. The rule was interpreted and applied correctly by the umpire, IMO. Not sure I agree with the rule, but it is what it is. Same rule cost us (LSU) a run and who knows what may have happened last year against UF. 

Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts

The runner should have slid. The umpire was watching the mif and when he saw the hesitation to throw he assumed it was because the runner didn't get down. In reality I think he hesitated because no one covered the bag. If he slides there is no call to be made. Yes he was farther from the bag than normal but that situation happens when balls are hit hard and or runners are not very fast. Get down and there is no reason to call anything. 

roothog66roothog6610,000+ posts
Smitty28 posted:
PitchingFan posted:

Great job last night by Arkansas.  Thoughts on interference call?  I think it was a good call but I'm sure others will disagree.

I don't know what the rule is but there was definitely no interference and the runner stopping and ducking in no way affected the play, so in this sense I think it was either a horrible call or its a horrible rule.  I'm fine with calling him out if his action affected the play, but that was ridiculous.

Rule 8-4a states that:

On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line between the two bases. It is permissible for the slider’s momentum to carry him through the base in the baseline extended. Exception - A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides orruns in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Interference shall not be called.

The explanation given by the fu was "he went directly at the fielder." This is, clearly the correct call. He doesn't have to slide and can peel away as long as it is "in a direction away from the fielder." Since he did not slide directly into the base, it is interference, by rule, unless he meets one of the two exceptions. He did not slide "in a direction away from the fielder" and did not run "in a direction away from the fielder." In fact, he peeled of in a direction toward  the fielder. Peeling off in any direction that is not "away from the fielder" is, therefore, interference per se. 

The call was correct and it was correct for exactly the reason the ump gave in his conversation with Casey and not, as the ESPN crew would have you believe, the right call for the wrong reasons.

JCGJCGStill working on a clever handle

Bad brain fart by the runner, one of many, many, unforced errors by OSU in the CWS.  I wonder if he thought the ball was going to get through?   Because otherwise, he needs to be anticipating a throw to 1st and getting ready to slide.  As the announcers kept saying the play really did change the complexion of the game, but that's on Rutschman, not the umpire.

S Smitty2810,000+ posts
roothog66 posted:
Smitty28 posted:
PitchingFan posted:

Great job last night by Arkansas.  Thoughts on interference call?  I think it was a good call but I'm sure others will disagree.

I don't know what the rule is but there was definitely no interference and the runner stopping and ducking in no way affected the play, so in this sense I think it was either a horrible call or its a horrible rule.  I'm fine with calling him out if his action affected the play, but that was ridiculous.

Rule 8-4a states that:

On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line between the two bases. It is permissible for the slider’s momentum to carry him through the base in the baseline extended. Exception - A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides orruns in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Interference shall not be called.

The explanation given by the fu was "he went directly at the fielder." This is, clearly the correct call. He doesn't have to slide and can peel away as long as it is "in a direction away from the fielder." Since he did not slide directly into the base, it is interference, by rule, unless he meets one of the two exceptions. He did not slide "in a direction away from the fielder" and did not run "in a direction away from the fielder." In fact, he peeled of in a direction toward  the fielder. Peeling off in any direction that is not "away from the fielder" is, therefore, interference per se. 

The call was correct and it was correct for exactly the reason the ump gave in his conversation with Casey and not, as the ESPN crew would have you believe, the right call for the wrong reasons.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I think when a rule impacts the game more than the play does, it's a bad rule.

roothog66roothog6610,000+ posts
Smitty28 posted:
roothog66 posted:
Smitty28 posted:
PitchingFan posted:

Great job last night by Arkansas.  Thoughts on interference call?  I think it was a good call but I'm sure others will disagree.

I don't know what the rule is but there was definitely no interference and the runner stopping and ducking in no way affected the play, so in this sense I think it was either a horrible call or its a horrible rule.  I'm fine with calling him out if his action affected the play, but that was ridiculous.

Rule 8-4a states that:

On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line between the two bases. It is permissible for the slider’s momentum to carry him through the base in the baseline extended. Exception - A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides orruns in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Interference shall not be called.

The explanation given by the fu was "he went directly at the fielder." This is, clearly the correct call. He doesn't have to slide and can peel away as long as it is "in a direction away from the fielder." Since he did not slide directly into the base, it is interference, by rule, unless he meets one of the two exceptions. He did not slide "in a direction away from the fielder" and did not run "in a direction away from the fielder." In fact, he peeled of in a direction toward  the fielder. Peeling off in any direction that is not "away from the fielder" is, therefore, interference per se. 

The call was correct and it was correct for exactly the reason the ump gave in his conversation with Casey and not, as the ESPN crew would have you believe, the right call for the wrong reasons.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I think when a rule impacts the game more than the play does, it's a bad rule.

While, maybe in this case, it didn't work out exactly like a sense of fairness might dictate, the idea of writing a rule in this manner is to try to do just the opposite - make it as clear and fair as possible. This takes away an umpire having to decide whether it affected the play or whether there was intent shown by the runner. It simply says "you must either slide directly at the base (which is also defined) or one of these two things (slide in a direction away from the fielder or run in a direction away from the fielder) or it is, by defined rule, interference." In the bigger picture this is much fairer than a rule which requires an ump to make judgments on what a player was thinking and predict the outcome of a play absent the act.

The bottom line is it is a rule. It's in black and white for every player or coach to read and understand. In this case, a player who knew the rule would have slid directly toward the base or taken advantage of one of the exceptions by sliding "in a direction away from the fielder" or peeling off "in a direction away from the fielde." He didn't know the rule, but ignorance of the rule cannot be used as an excuse for not following it. Maybe it didn't affect the play, but the beauty of having a rule written this way is that everyone should know what you have to do as a runner and there doesn't have to be multiple layers of decision making. 

The penalty (double play and runner goes back to third) wasn't imposed because he interfered with the play; it was imposed, by rule, because he violated a written rule of the game which calls for specific actions and imposes specific penalties.

roothog66roothog6610,000+ posts
roothog66 posted:
Smitty28 posted:
roothog66 posted:
Smitty28 posted:
PitchingFan posted:

Great job last night by Arkansas.  Thoughts on interference call?  I think it was a good call but I'm sure others will disagree.

I don't know what the rule is but there was definitely no interference and the runner stopping and ducking in no way affected the play, so in this sense I think it was either a horrible call or its a horrible rule.  I'm fine with calling him out if his action affected the play, but that was ridiculous.

Rule 8-4a states that:

On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line between the two bases. It is permissible for the slider’s momentum to carry him through the base in the baseline extended. Exception - A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides orruns in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Interference shall not be called.

The explanation given by the fu was "he went directly at the fielder." This is, clearly the correct call. He doesn't have to slide and can peel away as long as it is "in a direction away from the fielder." Since he did not slide directly into the base, it is interference, by rule, unless he meets one of the two exceptions. He did not slide "in a direction away from the fielder" and did not run "in a direction away from the fielder." In fact, he peeled of in a direction toward  the fielder. Peeling off in any direction that is not "away from the fielder" is, therefore, interference per se. 

The call was correct and it was correct for exactly the reason the ump gave in his conversation with Casey and not, as the ESPN crew would have you believe, the right call for the wrong reasons.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I think when a rule impacts the game more than the play does, it's a bad rule.

While, maybe in this case, it didn't work out exactly like a sense of fairness might dictate, the idea of writing a rule in this manner is to try to do just the opposite - make it as clear and fair as possible. This takes away an umpire having to decide whether it affected the play or whether there was intent shown by the runner. It simply says "you must either slide directly at the base (which is also defined) or one of these two things (slide in a direction away from the fielder or run in a direction away from the fielder) or it is, by defined rule, interference." In the bigger picture this is much fairer than a rule which requires an ump to make judgments on what a player was thinking and predict the outcome of a play absent the act.

The bottom line is it is a rule. It's in black and white for every player or coach to read and understand. In this case, a player who knew the rule would have slid directly toward the base or taken advantage of one of the exceptions by sliding "in a direction away from the fielder" or peeling off "in a direction away from the fielde." He didn't know the rule, but ignorance of the rule cannot be used as an excuse for not following it. Maybe it didn't affect the play, but the beauty of having a rule written this way is that everyone should know what you have to do as a runner and there doesn't have to be multiple layers of decision making. 

The penalty (double play and runner goes back to third) wasn't imposed because he interfered with the play; it was imposed, by rule, because he violated a written rule of the game which calls for specific actions and imposes specific penalties.

I'll give you a good analogy - the rule that if a batted ball contacts a base runner before passing a fielder, the runner is out and the ball is dead. Now, there are plenty of cases where this occurs and it obviously didn't affect the play and the fielder had no shot at making a play. However, we all know that rule and don't questions its fairness when it is called. We don't argue that it didn't affect the play and therefore the offensive team got screwed. We don't argue that the runner tried to get out of the way, so it shouldn't have been called. We just accept it. 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

The call was correct. The rule is bad. Had the runner slid he wouldn’t have reached the base. He tried to get out of the way. The (correct) call changed the momentum of the game. OSU would have been up 2-0, runners on first and third, one out. It’s up to the coaching staff and the players to know the rules. 

Last edited by RJM
O old_school10,000+ posts
RJM posted:

The call was correct. The rule is bad. Had the runner slid he wouldn’t have reached the base. He tried to get out of the way. The (correct) call changed the momentum of the game. OSU would have been up 2-0, runners on first and third, one out. It’s up to the coaching staff and the players to know the rules. 

and should be up the NCAA to write good rules....wait oh never mind we are relying on the NCAA - better off just betting it all on red.

roothog66roothog6610,000+ posts
RJM posted:

The call was correct. The rule is bad. Had the runner slid he wouldn’t have reached the base. He tried to get out of the way. The (correct) call changed the momentum of the game. OSU would have been up 2-0, runners on first and third, one out. It’s up to the coaching staff and the players to know the rules. 

The rule is fine. It requires you to run "in a direction away from the fielder." He did not. He ran right at the fielder. The rule is fine. he just didn't follow it. The rule allows only one way to "get out of the way" - run in a direction away from the runner. I like the rule. It leaves no leeway for argument. You either follow it or you don't. Otherwise, the argument you'd be having would concern an umpire's mind reading abilities or the runner's intent. If he knew the rule and did as it required, there would have been zero problem. He didn't, so his team pays. Nothing unfair about that.

roothog66roothog6610,000+ posts

Here is why I prefer it to the OBR rule, as an example. 

Here is the rule again:

"On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line between the two bases. It is permissible for the slider’s momentum to carry him through the base in the baseline extended. Exception - A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides orruns in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Interference shall not be called."

So the umpire factors it like this?

1) Did the runner slide directly to the base? If yes, NO interference. If No, ask:

2) Did the runner take either of the actions that except him from the rule to slide directly into the base: either slide in a "direction away from the runner" or run "in a direction away from the runner?" If yes, NO interference; if No, Interference is called and the penalties issued by rule.

absolutely unambiguous and objective. The answers to these questions are fact based and require absolutely no speculation.

OBR:

 

"If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner;"

So now the umpire has to decide:

1) Did he interfere?

2) was it "willful and deliberate" or just an accident?

3) was the intent "obvious?"

Pretty subjective stuff, here. These questions require speculation if not outright mind reading abilities. 

Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts

Totally agree. Look it's either get down or veer out of the way. There is no middle ground where you freeze up and duck at the last second. Not knowing the rules or failing to follow them is not on the umpire it's on the player here. The rule is fine. I guess you could say "If no one covers the bag and no out at first could have been made anyway and its a big game and will change the momentum of the game the rule will not be enforced." Just get down or veer out of the way when it's clear you can't challenge at the bag. The kid screwed up not the umpires. The rule itself is a non issue here. Unless your a commentator for ESPN and then it never ends and cost OSU the game. 

L latebloomer211,000+ posts

As a Beaver fan I didn't like the rule, but acknowledge its a clear rule and the kid messed up.  Nobody's fault but his.  A lesser play that I do blame the umpire on is the calling of the ball foul on the line drive to right field with a runner on first.  By calling it foul (which was proven to be wrong) it then presented the issue of having to guess where everyone would have ended up had the umpire ruled it correctly.  Had he called it fair, then the play would have happened and I am sure Arkansas would have appealed it.  But in that situation, the play would have happened and if it were reviewed to be foul there would have been no guessing where to reset the runners.  Would it have changed the game?  Who knows.  I just know that the way it was handled CREATED guesswork.  That being said, I enjoy watching these two battle each other.  Both are fantastic teams. 

roothog66roothog6610,000+ posts
latebloomer21 posted:

As a Beaver fan I didn't like the rule, but acknowledge its a clear rule and the kid messed up.  Nobody's fault but his.  A lesser play that I do blame the umpire on is the calling of the ball foul on the line drive to right field with a runner on first.  By calling it foul (which was proven to be wrong) it then presented the issue of having to guess where everyone would have ended up had the umpire ruled it correctly.  Had he called it fair, then the play would have happened and I am sure Arkansas would have appealed it.  But in that situation, the play would have happened and if it were reviewed to be foul there would have been no guessing where to reset the runners.  Would it have changed the game?  Who knows.  I just know that the way it was handled CREATED guesswork.  That being said, I enjoy watching these two battle each other.  Both are fantastic teams. 

I was a little surprised it was overturned. It didn't seem that clear. If I was just watching the slow-mo replay, I would have guessed it was fair after looking at a slow motion replay, but wouldn't have felt entirely comfortable that I was correct. In real time, though, I thought it was the right call. Either way, I think the placement ended up being correct. That ball took a very favorable bounce off the wall for the Razorbacks and I couldn't see them sending the runner to second.

L latebloomer211,000+ posts

Roothog, it was definitely a close play.  I could definitely see them sending the batter to second though.  Similar ball bounced off of the short wall in foul territory in left and they sent the runner (he was thrown out), but the left fielder was charging the ball in a path that was directly on line to second base.  Whereas the play in right the right fielder was moving away from second base so it would have been a tougher play.   It doesn't matter now of course.  But that is the reason for wishing it would have played out.  No guesswork.  Anyway, don't want to sound like a whiner.  There is no crying in baseball.    Is it game time yet?

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
d-mac posted:
TPM posted:
TPM posted:

Question for y'all. Where did they come up with that ugly looking A?  Also their chant is driving me nuts.

Found answer. The old English A was a rebrand collaboration for baseball and softball with Nike.

Ugly

 

That’s been the Arkansas A since I’ve been alive. 

I’m old. 

Really? Maybe because it's only baseball and softball. Not too familiar with Arkansas other than the hog

Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Consultant posted:

Coach May:

When a pitcher does not cover 1b on ground balls to the right side. What is the reason, lack of drills?   when a player does not slide is it a "fear" of injury? The basics maybe missing.

Bob

 

I think it's mostly due to lack of focus which in turn could be lack of drills? As far as the base running situation I think what happened is he was so far from 2nd base he knew there was no reason to slide. He was not trying to obstruct he was really trying to avoid it but he basically froze up. I bet he will learn the ole veer off abruptly move going forward. 

Q Qhead1,000+ posts

Yeah that missed foul ball for the win was rough.  Wild end to that game.  I have no dog in the hunt but for some reason find myself pulling for Arkansas...?  Both talented teams and fun to watch though.  IMO, the CWS is the most underrated sport event in U.S.  So fun to watch these young men play for their schools and the love of the game. 

JCGJCGStill working on a clever handle

LOL, they were probably rooting for a game 3 and always rooting for the stories that they keep pimping to play out.   I think they are good guys but I have heard far too much of their schtick at this point. Eduardo Perez is starting to grate on me in an almost McCarverian manner.

Despite the momentum I think maybe Arkansas has an edge going in as their SP will be coming off a good performance, while the Ducks supposedly are starting Abel who is really good but threw 20-some pitches last night.  Some kids do not respond well to that.  But if he does okay and the Ducks get off to fast start it could be over early. 

As a Pac 12 fan and mild OSU partisan, I continue to be surprised that they are still in this thing despite a constant stream of errors and miscues and a lack of production from the #4 player in the 2018 draft.  That bunt double play --- the runner's interference  -- just 2 of many boneheaded plays that should haunt them through the off season if they lose tonight.   Of course Arkansas will have that foul pop-up to remember should they lose, but that was just a good player failing to make a good play, not a total mental #$%* up.

D d-mac10,000+ posts
JCG posted:

LOL, they were probably rooting for a game 3 and always rooting for the stories that they keep pimping to play out.   I think they are good guys but I have heard far too much of their schtick at this point. Eduardo Perez is starting to grate on me in an almost McCarverian manner.

Despite the momentum I think maybe Arkansas has an edge going in as their SP will be coming off a good performance, while the Ducks supposedly are starting Abel who is really good but threw 20-some pitches last night.  Some kids do not respond well to that.  But if he does okay and the Ducks get off to fast start it could be over early. 

As a Pac 12 fan and mild OSU partisan, I continue to be surprised that they are still in this thing despite a constant stream of errors and miscues and a lack of production from the #4 player in the 2018 draft.  That bunt double play --- the runner's interference  -- just 2 of many boneheaded plays that should haunt them through the off season if they lose tonight.   Of course Arkansas will have that foul pop-up to remember should they lose, but that was just a good player failing to make a good play, not a total mental #$%* up.

Eduardo Perez is awful. 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
tequila posted:

At least the announcers were happy though. They've been rooting for Oregon State the entire time.

After seeing this comment previously I’ve paid more attention to the announcers to see if it’s true. It’s not. It’s nothing but bias on behalf of the people who believe it. 

Back in the 80’s Tom Heinsohn was the announcer for the Celtics and the CBS announcer on Sundays and playoffs. He had also previously played and coached for the Celtics. Laker fans complained he was biased for the Celtics. Celtics fans complained he was trying so hard not to be biased he was favoring the Lakers. The reality is people hear what they want to believe and don’t hear the rest.

Anyone who believes the announcers are favoring OSU must have missed the game Blaine Knight pitched. It was an adoration-fest. 

During the series the announcers have constantly talked about Arkansas’s power. 

I don’t think stating Heimlich and Fehmer didn’t get the job done getting knocked out so early in their games was a loveseat.

A couple of realities is OSU losing last year after such a dominant season makes the effort to win this year a story. And having so many high draft picks is a story. 

Last edited by RJM
tequilatequila1,000+ posts
RJM posted:
tequila posted:

At least the announcers were happy though. They've been rooting for Oregon State the entire time.

After seeing this comment previously I’ve paid more attention to the announcers to see if it’s true. It’s not. It’s nithing but bias on behalf of the people who believe it.

Maybe you're right RJM. However, I watched both games and my gut feeling was that the announcers were swayed towards OSU. I didn't sit and analyze every statement so maybe it was a "tone" type of thing or it could have been that was what I was looking for. I will say that I don't normally look for faults like this and am pretty sure I'm not making it up but the mind is a strange thing sometimes. I'm hoping for a Razorback victory but am not overly passionate about it so I don't think that had much influence either. Whatever the case may be, I'm enjoying the heck out of the contest!

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
old_school posted:

that was 5 minutes of craziness....I couldn't believe it happened that fast. When the foul ball was dropped there seemed to be like a 100% chance of a hit...then the HR...wow.

That HR often is a reaction to what happened. Same way as Heimlich fell apart after that bad play the other night.  

While we have to remember that these are still boys, and there is pressure, I kind of wonder why the meltdowns.  Is it because these teams are among the elite that won more often than lost, Oregon especially who has an astounding record of 54-12-1.  Or is it just too much sitting around waiting for games that can't be played?

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

There are a lot of bad announcers. There’s only one announcer that is so bad I can’t listen to him. When Bill Walton does UCLA basketball games for ESPN or PAC 12 Network I mute the tv and synch it up with KLAC radio.

I don’t have to listen to Yankee games. Otherwise Susyn Waldman would probably be a second. She’s Boston’s payback to NY for Babe Ruth. Yankee fans probably wish she didn’t fail as a Broadway actress. 

DesertDuckDesertDuck5,000+ posts
JCG posted:

LOL, they were probably rooting for a game 3 and always rooting for the stories that they keep pimping to play out.   I think they are good guys but I have heard far too much of their schtick at this point. Eduardo Perez is starting to grate on me in an almost McCarverian manner.

Despite the momentum I think maybe Arkansas has an edge going in as their SP will be coming off a good performance, while the Ducks supposedly are starting Abel who is really good but threw 20-some pitches last night.  Some kids do not respond well to that.  But if he does okay and the Ducks get off to fast start it could be over early. 

As a Pac 12 fan and mild OSU partisan, I continue to be surprised that they are still in this thing despite a constant stream of errors and miscues and a lack of production from the #4 player in the 2018 draft.  That bunt double play --- the runner's interference  -- just 2 of many boneheaded plays that should haunt them through the off season if they lose tonight.   Of course Arkansas will have that foul pop-up to remember should they lose, but that was just a good player failing to make a good play, not a total mental #$%* up.

University of Oregon = Ducks

Oregon State University = Beavers (rodents)

 

And I agree.....Eddie Perez is painful to listen to

Last edited by DesertDuck
JCGJCGStill working on a clever handle
DesertDuck posted:
JCG posted:

LOL, they were probably rooting for a game 3 and always rooting for the stories that they keep pimping to play out.   I think they are good guys but I have heard far too much of their schtick at this point. Eduardo Perez is starting to grate on me in an almost McCarverian manner.

Despite the momentum I think maybe Arkansas has an edge going in as their SP will be coming off a good performance, while the Ducks supposedly are starting Abel who is really good but threw 20-some pitches last night.  Some kids do not respond well to that.  But if he does okay and the Ducks get off to fast start it could be over early. 

As a Pac 12 fan and mild OSU partisan, I continue to be surprised that they are still in this thing despite a constant stream of errors and miscues and a lack of production from the #4 player in the 2018 draft.  That bunt double play --- the runner's interference  -- just 2 of many boneheaded plays that should haunt them through the off season if they lose tonight.   Of course Arkansas will have that foul pop-up to remember should they lose, but that was just a good player failing to make a good play, not a total mental #$%* up.

University of Oregon = Ducks

Oregon State University = Beavers (rodents)

 

And I agree.....Eddie Perez is painful to listen to

JCG = senile old f%$*

infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts

Some general thoughts:

1.) this 3 game format, following over a week of  games through each bracket is played at a level of intensity and fan interest which none of the players has experienced;

2.) Sometimes players can try too hard.  No one is saying the 2B, 1B or RF were not hustling on the pop up. It was not an easy play, for certain.  Build in crowd noise and it becomes even tougher. That said, I have watched OSU play a number of times going back to 2005.  The number of mental mistakes there are making in Omaha this year is most unusual.  Normally, they play the game impeccably and are constantly putting pressure on opponents.  That they are playing game #3 having lost their lead-off hitter, with literally nothing in Omaha from their 2 main starting pitchers and with little production from Madrigal in the first 2 games says an awful lot about the rest of their team.

3.) the Arkansas closer threw 42 pitches last night in 1 2/3's, following closing in game one, something he had not done all season (close two days in a row.) The pop up dropped in when he was around pitch 30-35, he was getting up in the zone. He was throwing all fastballs, around 92 mph, down from 94-95. OSU, 1-6, can hit fastballs.

4.) for game #3, OSU has challenges with their starting pitching.  Based on reliever use in games #1 and 2,  Arkansas may have equally big challenges on the mound starting around inning 7, if the game is close.

C cabbagedadHSBaseballWeb member since 2011
RJM posted:

There are a lot of bad announcers. There’s only one announcer that is so bad I can’t listen to him. When Bill Walton does UCLA basketball games for ESPN or PAC 12 Network I mute the tv and synch it up with KLAC radio.

I don’t have to listen to Yankee games. Otherwise Susyn Waldman would probably be a second. She’s Boston’s payback to NY for Babe Ruth. Yankee fans probably wish she didn’t fail as a Broadway actress. 

I was having such a good day...  you HAD to mention Bill Walton as an announcer. 

Forget time zones.  Forget seasonal weather forcing higher participation in hoops in the east and midwest.  Forget population density.  Sometimes I think he is the real reason for the East Coast Bias with basketball ...  every time a PAC game is scheduled for broadcast on ESPN, everyone is afraid it will be him doing the game and they avoid it like the plague. 

Sorry, back to college baseball.  Please.

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

I have a different opinion. I feel that the announcers have been fair, they root for the team that is in the lead!

Can't beat that dialogue between them when all eyes were on sleeping beauty.  And the argument they had about Florida bringing in their closer early, who was warming  up in the pen.

Last edited by TPM
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

Is that a pack mule or a post regular season college pitcher? No wonder the advice for young pitching prospects is sign out of high school so a college coach can’t ride you like a pack mule and put your arm at risk.

College starters pitch on six days rest for fourteen, fifteen weeks. Then as the season wears down and they get fatigued, saddle them up. Ride ‘em coach!

Last edited by RJM
P PlayWithEffort5,000+ posts
RJM posted:

Before the CWS started I read an article saying the winning team usually has someone step up you don’t expect. Heimlich and Fehmel are the top pitchers. Abel stepped up big time. He had six starts before tonight. He was 4-0 in the series.

I think he threw 230+ pitches in a six day span with over 100 tonight after throwing 23 yesterday.

It was an all-time great CWS pitching performance in my book. He completely shut Arkansas down. He definitely stepped up. He was phenomenal tonight.

B Backstop221,000+ posts

Amazing performance by Abel, Larnach and Rutschman.  Arkansas will be haunted by coming so close last night.  A great CWS by two great teams who deserved to be there. 

And listening to the interviews of players from both of these teams over the past week tells you what an amazing bond college baseball players form as a team.  Both teams said it is the players bond they always will remember from the experience.

Many of them mentioned the 6 AM workouts starting in September and what those did to bring them together toward the goal of Omaha.  The sled pushes, the grind.  All of the other practice time they put in, the travel ordeals, the coursework and make-up tests.  It is hard to imagine a better sport for team building than college baseball.  College football teams with 90 players are too huge, college basketball with 12 dominated by 6-7 guys are too few.  The contributions it takes in baseball from so many players on the mound, at the plate and in the field defines why it is such a team sport.

Bravo to the kids who are so talented that they can go straight from High School to the Minors, but they'll never get the chance to experience what these college teams go through in learning what it means to be a teammate and how to come together as a team.  And for the kids still dreaming of college ball, hopefully the CWS inspires them to put in the work and dedication to make it.

D d-mac10,000+ posts
RJM posted:

Kyle Peterson was saying Arkansas has a lot of young players. He said they could be back over the next couple of years with the conversation about all their top draft picks.

We lose a lot of experienced bats, but we do return our 2, 3 and 4 hitters who are all potential first rounders. We have to replace a bulldog on the mound who went 14-0.  I expect that we will take a small step back next year

D d-mac10,000+ posts

Abel’s change up looked big league ready. When was the last time a Freshman had two secondary pitches like that kid?  He took it to my Hogs, but the game was won last night.  We had nothing tonight.  We were talking about this on the message boards, can you name a team that had a game slip away in the finals or deep in the playoffs and then that team came back and won the next game?  St Louis vs KC in the WS, Buckner, Bartman game, Ray Allen 3, the list goes on. 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
d-mac posted:

Abel’s change up looked big league ready. When was the last time a Freshman had two secondary pitches like that kid?  He took it to my Hogs, but the game was won last night.  We had nothing tonight.  We were talking about this on the message boards, can you name a team that had a game slip away in the finals or deep in the playoffs and then that team came back and won the next game?  St Louis vs KC in the WS, Buckner, Bartman game, Ray Allen 3, the list goes on. 

A few years ago I remember hearing if the team that needs to win one doesn’t clinch in the next game they lose the following game about two-thirds of the time. This analysis applied to every playoff round including regions. In the case of this situation losing a game they had won was trauma added to the pressure.

I feel sorry for the Shaddy. He’s a good ball player. At least he has more ball to play. I realize it’s loud at the park. But does anyone else think Cole should have taken charge on that play? 

younggunyounggun5,000+ posts
RJM posted:
d-mac posted:

Abel’s change up looked big league ready. When was the last time a Freshman had two secondary pitches like that kid?  He took it to my Hogs, but the game was won last night.  We had nothing tonight.  We were talking about this on the message boards, can you name a team that had a game slip away in the finals or deep in the playoffs and then that team came back and won the next game?  St Louis vs KC in the WS, Buckner, Bartman game, Ray Allen 3, the list goes on. 

A few years ago I remember hearing if the team that needs to win one doesn’t clinch in the next game they lose the following game about two-thirds of the time. This analysis applied to every playoff round including regions. In the case of this situation losing a game they had won was trauma added to the pressure.

I feel sorry for the Shaddy. He’s a good ball player. At least he has more ball to play. I realize it’s loud at the park. But does anyone else think Cole should have taken charge on that play? 

That play is 100% on the RF IMO.  Go back and look at video or photos.  The ball lands almost at the feet of Cole.  Yes Shaddy got there first (he actually overran the play which happens WAY too much, but that's another story), but his angle to the ball was much more difficult than Cole's.  I have seen a still shot of just as the ball hits the ground.  In the picture, the 1st baseman is looking at Cole, not Shaddy.  Since Little League, we have all been taught the outfielders take precedence over infielder for pop ups.  So if Cole got there in time, that is on him.

younggunyounggun5,000+ posts

By the way, I was pulling for Arkansas HARD.  Not only because I am a self-admitted SEC homer, but because I REALLY do not like OSU based on playing at their stadium in the Regionals.  Someone has mentioned it here before, but their fans are HORRIBLE.  

All fan bases are passionate about their team.  I have no problem with all the bubbles at A&M, cowbells at State, whistling at Vandy.  Everyone has their "thing".  But OSU fans were very "in your face".  When our fans would start any type of cheer or support for our guys, they would stand up and point and say things like "shut your face", "sit down and shut up".  Just ridiculous.  Then to top it off, very personal about the players AND parents.  

Now I'm not the type that normally would ever say anything about this type stuff.  Personally, that doesn't bother me, but when they started in personally on a couple of the moms of players, that crossed the line.  Players are fair game.  My skin is plenty thick enough to not let it bother me (the wife is a different story).  I'm constantly telling her she has to let it go or she is going to get me into a fight.  Anyway, the best team won as bad as I didn't want to see it happen.  I saw both teams up close and personal.  I wasn't sure OSU would have the pitching if the starters struggled, but their bullpen did enough and their offense was EXACTLY what I saw in Corvallis.  When 4 of your 1st 5 batters are 1st round picks, you ARE VERY GOOD!  So tip of my hat to OSU team, but I'm SO glad I wasn't there to have to listen to their fans. 

If anyone has experienced anything of the likes while playing LSU, let me offer a sincere apology.  We have some of the most passioate fans in college sports and I'm certain is gone overboard at times.  I've never sat near the parents section at Alex Box, so maybe what we experienced in Corvallis is the norm.  But I don't think it is because I didn't see it anywhere else we played.

roothog66roothog6610,000+ posts
younggun posted:
RJM posted:
d-mac posted:

Abel’s change up looked big league ready. When was the last time a Freshman had two secondary pitches like that kid?  He took it to my Hogs, but the game was won last night.  We had nothing tonight.  We were talking about this on the message boards, can you name a team that had a game slip away in the finals or deep in the playoffs and then that team came back and won the next game?  St Louis vs KC in the WS, Buckner, Bartman game, Ray Allen 3, the list goes on. 

A few years ago I remember hearing if the team that needs to win one doesn’t clinch in the next game they lose the following game about two-thirds of the time. This analysis applied to every playoff round including regions. In the case of this situation losing a game they had won was trauma added to the pressure.

I feel sorry for the Shaddy. He’s a good ball player. At least he has more ball to play. I realize it’s loud at the park. But does anyone else think Cole should have taken charge on that play? 

That play is 100% on the RF IMO.  Go back and look at video or photos.  The ball lands almost at the feet of Cole.  Yes Shaddy got there first (he actually overran the play which happens WAY too much, but that's another story), but his angle to the ball was much more difficult than Cole's.  I have seen a still shot of just as the ball hits the ground.  In the picture, the 1st baseman is looking at Cole, not Shaddy.  Since Little League, we have all been taught the outfielders take precedence over infielder for pop ups.  So if Cole got there in time, that is on him.

Additionally, I wanted to throw my phone at the TV every time one of the ESPN commentators said. "that wasn't an easy play." Yes. Yes, it was an easy play.

Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts

Lets be honest we have all seen "that" play many times. Any time you have multiple guys converging on a ball unless one of them simply takes charge and decides they are going to be the one to make the play this happens. Yes it was an easy play IF someone had simply took over. But I looked at you, and you looked at him, and he looked at me and all of a sudden "What the _________ ." I guarantee you if the only player in the vicinity was the RF it gets caught with ease. 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
roothog66 posted:
younggun posted:
RJM posted:
d-mac posted:

Abel’s change up looked big league ready. When was the last time a Freshman had two secondary pitches like that kid?  He took it to my Hogs, but the game was won last night.  We had nothing tonight.  We were talking about this on the message boards, can you name a team that had a game slip away in the finals or deep in the playoffs and then that team came back and won the next game?  St Louis vs KC in the WS, Buckner, Bartman game, Ray Allen 3, the list goes on. 

A few years ago I remember hearing if the team that needs to win one doesn’t clinch in the next game they lose the following game about two-thirds of the time. This analysis applied to every playoff round including regions. In the case of this situation losing a game they had won was trauma added to the pressure.

I feel sorry for the Shaddy. He’s a good ball player. At least he has more ball to play. I realize it’s loud at the park. But does anyone else think Cole should have taken charge on that play? 

That play is 100% on the RF IMO.  Go back and look at video or photos.  The ball lands almost at the feet of Cole.  Yes Shaddy got there first (he actually overran the play which happens WAY too much, but that's another story), but his angle to the ball was much more difficult than Cole's.  I have seen a still shot of just as the ball hits the ground.  In the picture, the 1st baseman is looking at Cole, not Shaddy.  Since Little League, we have all been taught the outfielders take precedence over infielder for pop ups.  So if Cole got there in time, that is on him.

Additionally, I wanted to throw my phone at the TV every time one of the ESPN commentators said. "that wasn't an easy play." Yes. Yes, it was an easy play.

The announcers were protecting the players. The only way it’s a tough play is in extreme wind. I believe if it was the 7th game of the MLB WS the announcers would have been less protective and said that play has to be made.

Last edited by RJM
ConsultantConsultant10,000+ posts

COACH MAY;

Do you remember Gary Carter catcher NY Mets. Carter would demand that he catch the "pop ups". Many times in front of the 1b or 3b.  He had supreme confidence in his ability.

Next year practice will include drills for catching "pop ups", sliding, pitcher covering 1b. "Take charge"! The Coaches will "wear out" the SSK fungo

Bob

Last edited by Consultant
fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
TPM posted:

I have a different opinion. I feel that the announcers have been fair, they root for the team that is in the lead!

.............................................

Exactly, but they quickly run out of things to say and they repeat themselves twenty times over.   If I have to hear how awesome and a can't miss MLB pick Nick Madrigal is, I'm going to scream, and put a hot fork into my eye......again!  He's a fine player, but they don't have to talk about him especially after going 0-13 or whatever it was.   Talk about somebody who has impacted the game or talk about the CWS groundskeeping crew, CWS staff meteorologist, CWS hotel accommodations, Global economics, etc.....anything else!

See the source image   

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

A lot of viewers don’t watch every inning of the CWS like the posters here. I’m guessing a lot of viewing comes from channel surfing before or after the viewer’s MLB team plays. The announcers are constantly selling the college game and the players. You draw the casual college baseball viewer by selling him to stay and watch future major leaguers. 

Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts

What a crazy CWS. Obviously, I am delighted for OSU, having strong ties to several players and their families. But I do feel the heartbreak that Arkansas had to deal with. It is literally impossible to come closer to winning a championship than they did. When that foul ball hit the ground I told my wife "The baseball gods will not let that go unpunished." 

The individual performances by Abel and Rutschman were incredible. Rutschman's father Randy was my son's catching coach for years. The guy is not just a fabulous coach, but is also a stellar human being. If you saw any of his son's interviews, you got a glimpse into the character of both the father and the son. Watching Ad play catcher for a couple years and seeing his advanced blocking and framing skills, it was no surprise, given how much his father knows about such things and how well structured his drills and workouts are. 

But I did not expect a .400+ season at the plate from both sides. Wow. I could not be happier for him and his dad.

One other tidbit: remember game 2, OSU had nobody out runners on 1st and 3rd? Jack Anderson at the plate, soft pop-up on the bunt attempt results in a double play and Arkansas got out of the jam. I was sick.  I know Jack and his parents well, and all I could think as that game went into the 9th was that Jack is going to have to remember that at bat as his last college baseball (and perhaps organized baseball of any kind) at bat for the rest of his life. Who wants to bear that burden?

So when the foul ball hit the ground and the baseball gods had their due, I breathed a sigh of relief for Jack. 

 

 

 

Batty67Batty675,000+ posts

I was pulling for Arkansas but no real dog in the race. I had to miss most of the final series with travel to/from California.

The baseball gods usually punish teams for things like that. You know, runner on 1B, grounder to SS or 2B who boots the play. Runners on 1st and 2nd and you just KNOW here comes the 2-RBI double to the gap...

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