D3 catcher

I have a question that I hope can get some serious answers. Our son is a sophomore D3 catcher with a pop time consistently sub 2. He’s 6’2 and 180. He’s currently batting .313 with an OBP of .463. What are the chances that he could either move to a D2 or D1 program and how would he go about doing this without reprocussions from his current coach who doesn’t want him to leave. He’s a captain on the team as well. His biggest downfall is he has average speed on the bases 

Original Post

Lefty bat or righty?  Hit for power or contact - Slug%?  Who is measuring his POP and is it in-game or orchestrated timing?  What is his 60?  Throwing velo?  Which D3 conference, relatively strong or not so much?  What is his major?  Is the motivation for the move strictly baseball related?

I would say the chances are slim. 

The first question you'd have to ask yourself - what level of D3 is he playing at? Strong D3 with pitching in the mid-high 80s consistently or the HS level D3 where you're more likely to see 76 before 86? The top of D3 ball and the bottom are two different worlds. 

The next set of hurdles involves sitting out, eligibility/credit transfers, finding an interested team, money, all while going behind your coaches back. His best bet would involve having a trusted, respected baseball guy (former coach, trainer, scout) with connections who can reach out to schools on his behalf discreetly. 

What he has going for him is that he is a catcher, they're almost always in demand. That being said, he is hitting .313, not .440. It doesn't sound like he is bored where he is at. Unless he's a top notch lights out defensive catcher I wouldn't worry about it too much unless the move is related to a big academic upgrade. I don't know the situation, but I would not bring it up with the coach unless another school needs an answer. 

In order to move up he would have to sit out a transfer year. What is the reason for moving up? If it’s for credibility to be drafted get in the best summer league possible. Besides, what guarantees he plays when he moves up?

I'm more familiar with the JUCO world than D3, but what I've found is that often the very top JUCO hitters who move up to high level D1 often hit .400+ at the JUCO, especially in their Soph season.  That said your kid is a Catcher, and Catchers have value.

As others have said, you need to have a trusted reputable Baseball expert assess his talent as to whether he can play at a higher level.  

JohnT posted:

I have a question that I hope can get some serious answers. Our son is a sophomore D3 catcher with a pop time consistently sub 2. He’s 6’2 and 180. He’s currently batting .313 with an OBP of .463. What are the chances that he could either move to a D2 or D1 program and how would he go about doing this without reprocussions from his current coach who doesn’t want him to leave. He’s a captain on the team as well. His biggest downfall is he has average speed on the bases 

OK, so my first question is....WHY would he want to do this?  He's got a good thing going.  Most college baseball experiences are not quite this good.  Second question....WHY would he do this if he has to forego his junior year when he has some (possible) leverage in the draft if that is his goal. 

Transferring and sitting out is a huge hassle and risk.  Plenty of posts on HSBBWeb to corroborate that.  If your son is looking for more exposure, I'd suggest he talk to his Head Coach about getting him a shot at the Cape Cod League or other top level summer college league.   This will test his skills plenty.

As always, JMO.

I am with Fenway....as usual. Good experiences in college baseball are fewer than most people realize. To Fenway's point, my son's former D3 team had a kid playing in the Cape last summer, so if he has the chops he can get there. 

He also played with a catcher who was signed by the Dodgers and lasted one season in the minors, so if your son is good enough with the summer exposure he has the potential to play some form of pro ball. (assuming he is good enough)

Question: Is this desire yours or your son's?

 

His AVG/OBP is not top tier for D3. The NCAA website currently lists the top 200 AVGs and the #200 guy is batting .393. That doesn't mean your son can't play at a D2 or D1 level, but those are the only numbers you gave us. IMO, a great number of D3 guys could play at many (most?) D2 programs.

Assuming that a D1 or D2 is interested in him, that school must get permission from the current school to contact your son. Once he takes this step, his current coach may not want him back, so he should probably have made his mind up to leave before starting that process.

As others have noted, he will not be eligible to play during his year in residence (junior year). Transitioning via a juco might be an option, bit that would only leave him one year of eligibility at D1/D2.

BOF posted:

I am with Fenway....as usual. Good experiences in college baseball are fewer than most people realize. To Fenway's point, my son's former D3 team had a kid playing in the Cape last summer, so if he has the chops he can get there. 

He also played with a catcher who was signed by the Dodgers and lasted one season in the minors, so if your son is good enough with the summer exposure he has the potential to play some form of pro ball. (assuming he is good enough)

Question: Is this desire yours or your son's?

 

It’s been his dream to play at the highest level possible. He was getting looked at during showcases, but it was the same old stuff (just not big enough for D1 or D2). He grew from 5’9” 160lb his senior season to 6’2” 175lb over the summer. By then, he had already committed to his school because they didn’t look at his size rather his ability. He’s been told that if he was this big his senior year, he would have been D2 if not D1 material. Sucks being a late bloomer. I get that his batting numbers aren’t the best but he’s 17/21 throwing out runners, seeing typically 84-88 pitching with some topping 90, 6 HRs and leading with walks. He loves the team and the school but really wants to further his baseball career.

MidAtlanticDad posted:

His AVG/OBP is not top tier for D3. The NCAA website currently lists the top 200 AVGs and the #200 guy is batting .393. That doesn't mean your son can't play at a D2 or D1 level, but those are the only numbers you gave us. IMO, a great number of D3 guys could play at many (most?) D2 programs.

Assuming that a D1 or D2 is interested in him, that school must get permission from the current school to contact your son. Once he takes this step, his current coach may not want him back, so he should probably have made his mind up to leave before starting that process.

As others have noted, he will not be eligible to play during his year in residence (junior year). Transitioning via a juco might be an option, bit that would only leave him one year of eligibility at D1/D2.

It’s been his dream to play at the highest level possible. He was getting looked at during showcases, but it was the same old stuff (just not big enough for D1 or D2). He grew from 5’9” 160lb his senior season to 6’2” 175lb over the summer. By then, he had already committed to his school because they didn’t look at his size rather his ability. He’s been told that if he was this big his senior year, he would have been D2 if not D1 material. Sucks being a late bloomer. I get that his batting numbers aren’t the best but he’s 17/21 throwing out runners, seeing typically 84-88 pitching with some topping 90, 6 HRs and leading with walks. He loves the team and the school but really wants to further his baseball career.

fenwaysouth posted:
JohnT posted:

I have a question that I hope can get some serious answers. Our son is a sophomore D3 catcher with a pop time consistently sub 2. He’s 6’2 and 180. He’s currently batting .313 with an OBP of .463. What are the chances that he could either move to a D2 or D1 program and how would he go about doing this without reprocussions from his current coach who doesn’t want him to leave. He’s a captain on the team as well. His biggest downfall is he has average speed on the bases 

OK, so my first question is....WHY would he want to do this?  He's got a good thing going.  Most college baseball experiences are not quite this good.  Second question....WHY would he do this if he has to forego his junior year when he has some (possible) leverage in the draft if that is his goal. 

Transferring and sitting out is a huge hassle and risk.  Plenty of posts on HSBBWeb to corroborate that.  If your son is looking for more exposure, I'd suggest he talk to his Head Coach about getting him a shot at the Cape Cod League or other top level summer college league.   This will test his skills plenty.

As always, JMO.

He wants to play at the highest level. He really loves the team and “experience” of playing college ball but he was told that his size stopped him from being a D1/D2 catcher. He was 5’9” his senior year and now over 6’2”. The school he’s at loved everything about him. His coach has told the guys that D3 is a good program (we have 2 top 25 schools in our conference). He has asked the coach for help getting to the next level and has been told that no D3 players go higher. He was clocked in game at 1.93 pop time and is 17/21 throwing guys out. Just wanted to see if it’s realky not pissible for D3 players to move up...

It sounds like he has a good fit, academically and emotionally. The grass is not always greener. As others suggested I would see of he could get put in a high level Summer team. And the summer season is usually longer of the 2. 

My son played at a D3 and played in the Great Lakes and Valley league. He competed very well. I know D3 players used to be able to self release. not sure it is true anymore. And if he self releases his current coach will know very quickly. 

It's a tough situation and an great situation at the same time.  It is a statistical rarity to find a program like your son has where the player loves the team and the school and is a significant contributor.  Don't take that lightly.  Also, there is a ton of overlap across divisions.  One of my sons played JC, D2 and NAIA.  He now coaches, including as HC in the Valley League where there are players across D1, D2, NAIA, D3 and JC.  It is quite common there that the best performers come from all of those divisions that are not D1.  So many things can happen when making a transition upward in levels, not the least of which are the previously mentioned class transfer challenges and possible sit time.  It is far more likely that a good player get stuck behind a better player or finds himself one slump away from losing his spot in the lineup. 

While your son may be a defensive standout at an important position, there will still be emphasis put on the hit tool when trying to get the attention of other schools.  And, there will likely be concern that if he is a .313 hitter in D3, he will likely be a much lesser hitter at higher levels where that good pitching is rolled out more consistently.  Yes, you can find a weaker D1 or D2 team/conference where that may not be the case but that defeats the purpose.  Your son's coach is largely correct in that few D3 position players get drafted.  But some of the same applies to weaker D1 and D2 programs.  I have seen some REALLY talented position players at D2 get bypassed with any draft interest. 

Is it possible that your son transfer to a D1, find success and then find MiLB opportunities?  Yes, but at this point, based on what you are telling us, the odds are wildly stacked against him and the chances of things backfiring from a college experience standpoint are quite high.  

I'm very much with others who suggest he tries to find an avenue to one of the top collegiate summer leagues to show his skill set.  It will scratch his itch to play along side players at the higher levels, give him a chance to be seen and not ruin the good thing he has at his current school.

BTW, there are some here who can help steer you in the right direction with good summer college leagues, if not this summer, then next.

  

Maybe he is already playing at the highest level possible.  Maybe if he transfers to a D2 or D1 he gets cut, or sits, or fares poorly if he does play, or doesn't like his teammates, or doesn't like the school, etc.  It sounds to me like he is currently in a terrific situation (loves his team, playing, playing great).  Is it really worth the risk of upsetting his education and current playing situation to see if he can get on a higher level program?  And to what end?  He's clearly not going to end up in the MLB.  Is it not more likely he could help his current team win the conference and compete in the D3 CWS?

My advice is stay at the school he's at, and work harder than ever.  Do everything he can to get in a top level summer league, even as an occasional sub (there may be opportunities for a week or two in a high level league due to injuries or a team going to Omaha etc, especially for a Catcher)

If his goal is to play pro Baseball, he can get scouted from where he is at.  His focus should be on his own development & getting in the best summer league(s) he can, not on trying to sit out a year due to transfer rules.  Pro Baseball always has a need for Catchers...

Smitty28 posted:

  He's clearly not going to end up in the MLB.  

There is no way you can say that.  Eric Kratz is one of the former D3 Catchers who went on to MLB.

It is unlikely that any college player makes it to MLB,  but you can never say it with certainty that a player cannot do it.

The bigger point though, is to not underestimate the skills of MLB Scouts.  They will find you in D3 just as easily as D1

There’s a reason most drafted D3 players are pitchers. 90+ is 90+ no matter where it is thrown. D3 hitters often aren’t facing the kind of pitching necessary to quantify their hitting ability. Those that are considered hitting prospects get placed in higher level collegiate summer leagues to face D1 pro pitching prospects.

Another factor of transferring is getting a year older when sitting out due to transfer rules.  If that year is spent getting bigger faster stronger that can be great.  But nobody is getting scouted sitting on the bench.

This thread speaks to why I often recommend late bloomers (especially those not interested in the high academic route) to go JUCO instead of D3.  Take a couple years to develop as much as you can before the game of Baseball tells you if you are a D1, D2, or D3 talent at the age of 20, not 18...

JohnT posted:
fenwaysouth posted:
JohnT posted:

I have a question that I hope can get some serious answers. Our son is a sophomore D3 catcher with a pop time consistently sub 2. He’s 6’2 and 180. He’s currently batting .313 with an OBP of .463. What are the chances that he could either move to a D2 or D1 program and how would he go about doing this without reprocussions from his current coach who doesn’t want him to leave. He’s a captain on the team as well. His biggest downfall is he has average speed on the bases 

OK, so my first question is....WHY would he want to do this?  He's got a good thing going.  Most college baseball experiences are not quite this good.  Second question....WHY would he do this if he has to forego his junior year when he has some (possible) leverage in the draft if that is his goal. 

Transferring and sitting out is a huge hassle and risk.  Plenty of posts on HSBBWeb to corroborate that.  If your son is looking for more exposure, I'd suggest he talk to his Head Coach about getting him a shot at the Cape Cod League or other top level summer college league.   This will test his skills plenty.

As always, JMO.

He wants to play at the highest level. He really loves the team and “experience” of playing college ball but he was told that his size stopped him from being a D1/D2 catcher. He was 5’9” his senior year and now over 6’2”. The school he’s at loved everything about him. His coach has told the guys that D3 is a good program (we have 2 top 25 schools in our conference). He has asked the coach for help getting to the next level and has been told that no D3 players go higher. He was clocked in game at 1.93 pop time and is 17/21 throwing guys out. Just wanted to see if it’s realky not pissible for D3 players to move up...

Understood.  But let's step back for some perspective.   Your sophomore son is doing very well where he is, but not necessarily dominating D3 pitching when he hits.  So, my oldest son had a college teammate that was tearing up his D1 conference hitting his sophomore year (>.300 avg) and led the league in HRs and RBIs.   He has a gun in right field as well, and loved take "greedy singles" out at second base.  Pro scouts started showing up every weekend.  The following year, he wasn't getting the same pitches and it was a totally different.  Word got around the league pretty quickly.  His hitting numbers suffered, he led the league in strikeouts and there were no scouts showing up.   Take my story for what it is worth.   Also, I don't understand your comment about when your son asked for help...is that about transferring or is that about college summer ball?  Again, please let me make a suggestion.   It is going to be far easier and less risky for your son to "constantly pester" his HC for a shot at a top level college summer league or make the request himself than it is to go through the transferring and sit out process.   You have no idea what a college program is like unless you are in it.

Good luck, and as always JMO.

 

3and2Fastball posted:
Smitty28 posted:

  He's clearly not going to end up in the MLB.  

There is no way you can say that.  Eric Kratz is one of the former D3 Catchers who went on to MLB.

It is unlikely that any college player makes it to MLB,  but you can never say it with certainty that a player cannot do it.

The bigger point though, is to not underestimate the skills of MLB Scouts.  They will find you in D3 just as easily as D1

Sure, anything can happen and meteors can strike anywhere.  But it's unrealistic to think otherwise in this case.  He wasn't drafted out of HS.  He wasn't picked up by a D1.  He's not being courted now by any top D1s.  It's about a safe a bet as there is that he's not MLB material.  One has to weigh these odds against the costs when making these decisions.  

fenwaysouth posted:
JohnT posted:
fenwaysouth posted:
JohnT posted:

I have a question that I hope can get some serious answers. Our son is a sophomore D3 catcher with a pop time consistently sub 2. He’s 6’2 and 180. He’s currently batting .313 with an OBP of .463. What are the chances that he could either move to a D2 or D1 program and how would he go about doing this without reprocussions from his current coach who doesn’t want him to leave. He’s a captain on the team as well. His biggest downfall is he has average speed on the bases 

OK, so my first question is....WHY would he want to do this?  He's got a good thing going.  Most college baseball experiences are not quite this good.  Second question....WHY would he do this if he has to forego his junior year when he has some (possible) leverage in the draft if that is his goal. 

Transferring and sitting out is a huge hassle and risk.  Plenty of posts on HSBBWeb to corroborate that.  If your son is looking for more exposure, I'd suggest he talk to his Head Coach about getting him a shot at the Cape Cod League or other top level summer college league.   This will test his skills plenty.

As always, JMO.

He wants to play at the highest level. He really loves the team and “experience” of playing college ball but he was told that his size stopped him from being a D1/D2 catcher. He was 5’9” his senior year and now over 6’2”. The school he’s at loved everything about him. His coach has told the guys that D3 is a good program (we have 2 top 25 schools in our conference). He has asked the coach for help getting to the next level and has been told that no D3 players go higher. He was clocked in game at 1.93 pop time and is 17/21 throwing guys out. Just wanted to see if it’s realky not pissible for D3 players to move up...

Understood.  But let's step back for some perspective.   Your sophomore son is doing very well where he is, but not necessarily dominating D3 pitching when he hits.  So, my oldest son had a college teammate that was tearing up his D1 conference hitting his sophomore year (>.300 avg) and led the league in HRs and RBIs.   He has a gun in right field as well, and loved take "greedy singles" out at second base.  Pro scouts started showing up every weekend.  The following year, he wasn't getting the same pitches and it was a totally different.  Word got around the league pretty quickly.  His hitting numbers suffered, he led the league in strikeouts and there were no scouts showing up.   Take my story for what it is worth.   Also, I don't understand your comment about when your son asked for help...is that about transferring or is that about college summer ball?  Again, please let me make a suggestion.   It is going to be far easier and less risky for your son to "constantly pester" his HC for a shot at a top level college summer league or make the request himself than it is to go through the transferring and sit out process.   You have no idea what a college program is like unless you are in it.

Good luck, and as always JMO.

 

....  Then the coaching staff changes and it’s a different program.

MidAtlanticDad posted:

His AVG/OBP is not top tier for D3. The NCAA website currently lists the top 200 AVGs and the #200 guy is batting .393. That doesn't mean your son can't play at a D2 or D1 level, but those are the only numbers you gave us. IMO, a great number of D3 guys could play at many (most?) D2 programs.

Assuming that a D1 or D2 is interested in him, that school must get permission from the current school to contact your son. Once he takes this step, his current coach may not want him back, so he should probably have made his mind up to leave before starting that process.

As others have noted, he will not be eligible to play during his year in residence (junior year). Transitioning via a juco might be an option, bit that would only leave him one year of eligibility at D1/D2.

I absolutely agree with the points others have been bringing up, but this stands out. He is the captain of his team & the HC has already expressed his commitment to him. If he gets a whiff of this then your son will effectively be done there. New list of over 1200 D1 players seeking transfers just came out. Please dont be insulted, but the grass is definitely not greener. He is actually enjoying his time & status at school. (Rarified air). Play summer ball and keep working. Best of luck

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