D3 offer?

In my view, you have to look at D3 as a complete team full of walk-ons. The coach has no commitment (in terms of athletic scholarship). The coach has no idea who will actually show up on campus in the fall since there's no national LOI. So he may tell your son he loves him as a C, but when 7 other unexpectedly show up, he can't keep or play all 8 of them. It's really important to watch the team play and practice and make an honest assessment of where your son fits it. And do your best to find out if the coach really wants you son specifically...or if it's just dependent on who else shows up. Finally, folks on here say all the time to make sure your son wants to be at the school if baseball isn't in the picture....can't tell you how important I think that is. Good luck.

For my son it was a guaranteed roster spot his first year.

All his scholarship money is merit, not tied to playing.

Different meanings elsewhere.

I should add that to get the guaranteed roster spot, my son has been asked to apply early decision. Admissions knows which students are recruited. In fact, the coach walked my son to his Admissions interview. Admissions copied the coach on the email when the interview appointment was scheduled.

In some instances D3 coaches have points they can use to help recruits get admitted. I suspect that Admissions would not look kindly on a coach cutting a player he used points to get admitted.

There are D3s known for taking the approach Tx Husker mentioned, but not all D3s are the same.

Twotex, I wasn't describing an approach a coach takes. I was describing the reality D3 coaches manage within. Some may over-recruit intentionally...that's not what I was talking about. The reality is with no NLI involved, the kid a coach expects to show up may not when a last minute D1/2 offer with money pops up. In the same fashion, the opposite happens some times too due to injuries, coaching changes, academic issues, etc. The roster spot offer is one of the indications I was talking about where the coach really wants the player regardless of who shows up.

Bluedevel, they are typically for roster spots.
Tx-Husker, my son’s D3 program recruits very much the same way as a D1, except that it is all based on the word of the coach and the player. They know who is going to show up in the fall and have the roster laid out according to their recruiting activity and commitments. Sure they might get a drop, but at least the last two years everyone showed up who committed. They were no different than the D1’s that recruited my son and they wanted to know if he was committing to them just like the D1’s, except he was not signing an LOI. They do have open try outs, but players have no chance of making the team by just showing up for the tryout. They talked to my son about his opportunity, who was on the roster, and where they thought he would fit, etc. This year they had kids tell them they wanted to come to the school, and the coaches told them that they would likely not have any opportunity to play and should consider going somewhere else. It is certainly not as you are describing and like at least at his program, and it was not much different than a D1 except the money was academic and all commitments were verbal.

Thanks very much to twotex, tx-hustler and BOF.

Can you tell me what a guaranteed spot actually means? The coach told my son, "I am not married to anyone in any position, the best players play. I need you to play where ever you can help me win".

The coach had my son play 3 different positions during the showcase.

This seems like a pretty fair and honest way to coach. Is this is a concern to anybody and if so why?

Sounds like a pretty fair assessment to me, and one that pretty much any college coach would say. A guaranteed spot just means you won't be cut, which usually means less on D3 programs since they are not limited to 35 man rosters. This is more important in D1 programs because of their roster limitations. In any case the best 9 play. If your son decides that this is where he will attend I would be talking to the coach and find out the depth chart and the positions your son plays, and work over the summer on getting better and where he stands the best chance of breaking in, or if he can play many positions he will stand a better chance of making the travel roster.

Good Luck!

Thanks again BOF,

I appreciate your confirmation.

I wouldn't be concerned. I suppose 1 position is/was your son's primary and the coach was looking to determine whether he would "accept" playing somewhere else. When asked to go to a non primary position a reaction might give a coach a good idea about what to expect if the player was on the roster...

In the end, it's your son that has to determine his interest - nothing worse than be unhappy! My son had a teammate last fall that "complained" slightly about having to go to the outfield - he looked at him and said "hey, at least you're playing".

quote:

Bludevil_bk said...The coach told my son, "I am not married to anyone in any position, the best players play. I need you to play where ever you can help me win".

FWIW..I've seen my son's college coach take freshmen recruited infielders and teach them to play corner outfield because of their bat, speed, glove, or they are one of the 9 best. Typically the CF was recruited for that position. What has happened over time is those players will win infield positions when a spot opens up....but you have to be a hitter. This coach may do something similiar but the idea is the same....give talented kids an opportunity to help the team.

I think this coach is telling your son he will guarantee his spot on the team and provide him an opportunity to win a position. An open mind is wonderful thing if your son will be a freshmen.

Good luck.

twotex,

you have a pm

I wrote this on a different thread but perhaps it belongs here as well. My son had every desire to play college baseball but he clearly followed the advice on these boards to find a school you would want to be at without baseball. Having done that he then narrowed the list of candidate schools to approximiately 8 D3 and D2 schools. 1 D2 and 2 D3s expressed strong interest in him, with a third D3 engaging regularly in conversation but only going so far as saying "yeah, you could play with us", and on a subsequent visit, "did you get bigger?". Looking at the roster, and the trend in position players, he felt he measured up well.

Son eventually chose that last school and at first baseball meeting coach met the veterans and new comers and announced that he was very uninspired by last year's effort, that he would be reducing the size of the squad, and that everyone was trying out for the next several practices.

Moral of the story: decisions should be made on the basis of assessment of all the facts and a willingness to continue at the school in the absence of baseball.

Having said that, yes he made the team. Whew!

FWIW - as regards to position - my son was recruited as a shortstop at his high level D3. He realized early on that the coach recruited mostly shortstops. On the first day of fall ball he was converted to 3B. On the opening day of his freshman season he was hit by a pitch, broke his hand, and was out for 10 weeks. He spent those 10 weeks hanging around the bullpen, and by the end of that season he was a closer. Last year he had a successful season as a full time pitcher. He barely pitched in HS.

At every level of baseball, you play the roll you are assigned and you learn to excel at that role while you prepare for the role you want. Just like in real life. That is as true for D1 as it is for D3 or business or law, etc. Any coach who tells you differently is lying.

quote:

In my view, you have to look at D3 as a complete team full of walk-ons.

My son's D3 experience has been very similar to BOF's. When my son was accepted by the school, his first notification was a phone call from the coach. The official notification came several days later.

Tx-Husker's comment above reminded me of a funny incident when I went to the freshman parent sports orientation meeting. The AD starting talking about how they recruited athletes and suddenly several parents got very excited and one exclaimed out loud "You recruit?" Obviously they were under the impression that everyone just walked on.

Although there are open tryouts in the fall, I'm not aware of anyone who made the baseball team that wasn't already 'known' by the coach....

Division 3 offers grants and athletic aid to student athletes. Sometimes, they are able to put together better aid packages for the student athlete than division 1 and 2 schools. Academically, they are usually better schools than Division 2. This website can provide a wealth of knowledge for those curious about the different divisions.

To be clear, of course they recruit. My point was once you are there, you better treat it like everyone's a walkon because the coach doesn't have any "investment" in you he has to think hard about walking away from. Whether the coach "guarantees" a roster spot or not, you better earn it or you'll find out your spot is one that doesn't travel with the team and never plays.

dgray1981,


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I understand what everyone is saying about D3 and there being no scholarships and treat everyone as a walkon. I would submit that it is really not that different than D1 or D2 in that you are also competing for a roster spot there as well. I think on the D1 and D2 level, if you don't perform, you won't be playing - whether you are a walk on or a scholarship player. In fact, because scholarships are year to year, you better perform or you won't have your scholarship the next year. On my son's D2 team, I heard there were a number of players from last year that were cut this year because they didn't perform last year. I don't know for sure, but I would think at least some of them were scholarship players.

His team also has a number of D1 guys on the roster. I can only assume that they didn't cut it at the D1 level for some reason and decided to drop down.

I understand that there is somewhat more of a committment by a coach to keep a kid that is on scholarship, it still comes down to performance for ANY player. I really don't think, whether a player has an athletic scholarship or not, there is ANY guarantee from year to year. Those who perform will play, those who don't won't. If you have the talent to play, go into your program and believe you will play. Go into your program and earn your spot. If you have to worry about it, maybe you are not that confident in your abilities? I don't know - just saying.

Glancing through this thread, most everyone is accurate for their son's experience. However, experience through D3 can vary widely.
If I remember correctly, Tx-Husker's son is headed to or at UT-Tyler. At schools like University of Texas at Tyler and UT-Dallas, they can bring in far more potential players and do, including at times a large population of JC players. The schools are part of the University of Texas system and admissions and attendance are commensurate.
In contrast, BOF's son and mine attend/attended Trinity (Tx.) Same location as UTT and UTD and they play each other. But Trinity is more selective academically, much smaller and recruits in a very different way. JC transfers are rare to non-existent. Most years there are going to be far more competing for roster spots at UTT and UTD than at Trinity and many more JC's competing for those spots. From what I remember, UTT's top pitchers often have a JC background.
For those familiar with the SUNY, New Jersey and Wisconsin public college/university D3 programs, those are much larger schools and much more likely to have larger turnouts in the Fall and many removed from the roster through competition and attrition. Again, a very different experience from the NESCAC in most situations or the Northwest League and SCIAC in California.
Finally, college coaches can be a reflection of every aspect of society. Some can be trusted to the core, some not so and there are many gradations in between.
In summary, for a D3 offer I might suggest the following be in consideration:
1.) know the school and conference and appreciate public vs private can make a difference;
2.) acceptance rates can make a major difference in roster size;
3.) talking with the coach and listening very carefully makes a major difference and asking "what does that mean" can be critically important;
4.) Visiting the school and seeing the team in action(hopefully more than one practice/game) and judging, without rose colors in the eyes, can my son play here?
5.) Visiting the school and classrooms and faculty and teammates and your son asking(along with the parent) do I/ does my son want to play here/is this a good fit in the classroom and on the field and in the weight room?
6.) Place the quality of the coaching staff and their ability to develop the talent they bring to the school as a high priority at D3. No one wants to lose, usually. I sat with many parents who had a son who was a starter in other schools in the then SCAC and some were miserable because the program and coaching was poor to average and/or unstable:
7.) how hard is the coaching staff recruiting my son and how are they going about it. A staff which is less than organized or responsive in the recruiting phase is probably going to be very much the same, or perhaps worse, when Fall ball/or the Spring season start:
8.) Downplay the importance of any guarantee, to an extent. Your son needs to be ready to compete in the classroom and on the baseball field and where academic money is involved, there is usually a connection.

We were at a public D3 in NJ a couple of weekends ago for a camp. They said that for most kids they must come try out in the fall. A few they will guarantee a roster spot for. They were making their final cuts that weekend and still had 49 players.

A couple of other private D3s that are smaller said if they recruit you, you pretty much have a roster spot for 4 years.