daughter hitting

See if she can stand with her feet closer together and shorten her stride a bit.

The swing is great but she loses her legs in the swing at times. She loses her weight behind the swing in other words.

I know she doesn't get her front side loaded as much as she should,but she has tried a narrow stance and stepping but she is not comfortable with it,not sure why.

It might be something we try to revisit from time to time to see if will click for her.The wider stance really helps with her contact.

This quote by Quincy is understandable.....And, I believe a good observation....

quote:

She loses her weight behind the swing in other words.

I think her lower half is not the problem, though....If she's comfortable with the wide stance, I would say no problem....

Her problem is top arm action.....Tom Guerry has always said, "arm action is King"....He's right....

Consider this....Would she throw with that same arm action she is swinging with?

Siggy has some good looks at softball swings

Jessica Mendoza is a lefty.

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/olympic;jsessionid=rt1z9vm8h2.kizo_s

Nice video comparing hitting a baseball pitch to a softball pitch. Jennie Finch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_de3HJvO-N8&feature=related

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Her problem is top arm action.....Tom Guerry has always said, "arm action is King"....He's right....

Consider this....Would she throw with that same arm action she is swinging with?

I hate to say it but she probably would. She does not throw very well at all,it has always been a struggle for her BUT the good news is after 1 day of the high school coaches working with her,she was 50% better so I believe it is there.The late start really has slowed her in that area.


I also agree with the obsevation by Quincy but not exactly what the best way to fix it is.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Tfox, she can be a really good hitter....She seems to be naturally gifted, IMO......

This quote by Quincy is understandable.....And, I believe a good observation....

quote:

She loses her weight behind the swing in other words.

I think her lower half is not the problem, though....If she's comfortable with the wide stance, I would say no problem....

Her problem is top arm action.....Tom Guerry has always said, "arm action is King"....He's right....

Consider this....Would she throw with that same arm action she is swinging with?

Now is probably a good time to work on the top hand action but before when I worked on it,she was losing her hip rotation(actually not losing it but it was late and well after the hands had gotten to the ball) so I had to back out of it and concentrate on the hips.

Quincy,those videos were awesome but I would like to see a softball hitter try to hit the 95 mph fastball.We must also remember that this softball pitcher is one of the best in the world but cool none the less.


My daughter actually got her arm BROKE by a pitch last summer.She was stepping forward to slap and the pitch came inside and broke both bones in her arm.


When she stepped back on the field for the first time since it happened just so happened to be against the girl that broke her arm,how intimidating would that be?

She got a base hit and bunted for a base hit in that game.

quote:

......so I had to back out of it and concentrate on the hips.

Someday, maybe you'll learn isolation drills are mostly useless........But, maybe you won't since you believe in teaching 'em how to rotate......Remember, they do graduate from High School eventually.......

Maybe she'll figure it out...I hope she does....

She is spinning...

She is pulling the knob and not torquing it, like today's greats:
http://www.recruit.hittingillustrated.com/RunningStart.htm"]

quote:

Originally posted by CRadlo:
She is spinning...

She is pulling the knob and not torquing it, like today's greats:
http://www.recruit.hittingillustrated.com/RunningStart.htm"]

Actually, unlike your video where you head/body travels a large distance, this young lady keeps her head in the same spot. Reference video with CRadlo:



I'd say that in that regard (head location) she is not unlike:



Put your cursor on Ortiz's head and you'll see that it doesn't leave the cursor. She does have other problems but they can easily be addressed.

PM TFox!

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

......so I had to back out of it and concentrate on the hips.

The arms work, the hips don't work...The hips work, the arms don't work.....Teach it, no, back out......Concentrate on another area........Someday, maybe you'll learn isolation drills are useless........But, maybe you won't since you believe in teaching 'em how to rotate......Remember, they do graduate eventually.......

Maybe she'll figure it out...I hope she does....

IMO,it is esier to to work from the hips out or bottom up than from the hands down.You have not even seen her swing the other way but yet you say this is the wrong way(heck,she couldn't even make contact the other way).Maybe she would graduate eventually but they have to be succesful NOW and still graduate.

I knew I would regret this. Please don't turn this into a normal my way is better than your way thread.

I respect your opinion and actually like alot of your input but there is more than 1 way to get to and end result and the student should be the indicator of the method,not an agenda.Why do you think I asked so many questions,even some directed to you specifically?


NO,she is not there and there is still much work to do and yes the hands need to get more involved to graduate the swing but the swing working the other way just wasn't producing results.Actually it was and they were ALL bad.

I do believe that now some things are clicking and going back to the hands will produce results,but it just wasn't happening before.

tfox,

Not bad. Alot of natural hand/eye coordination and she attacks the ball.

She is spread out a bit too much...takes alot of core strength to rotate the hips being that spread out. Very few MLB players can spread as wide as your daughter and properly rotate the hips. I know she likes wide...but she looks extremely wide. About 6 inches at least. Perhaps no-stride will help.

Hands...need to work the bottom hand under better and get the lead elbow up during the swing ( some swings she did a great job of this). Sometimes it looked like she rolled over a bit. Back shoulder/elbow is lower than front shoulder/elbow...at least even them up. Alot of knee flex particularly in the back leg...would like to see her taller on the backside. Alot of this nit picking because she's doing a pretty decent job in the clip. Tell her to trust her hands.

Basically, echoing what Quincy and Bluedog said earlier.

Hitting a softball is a totally different animal than a baseball. I would bet money that a good girls fastpitch team would have more success initailly hitting a baseball than the guys would hitting a fastpitch softball. Not talking about power just solid contact. The reason I 'd bet money is I've seen these contests before and not once did the boys come close to matching the girls as far as contact is concerned. In each case, you had boys and girls teams that had very successful seasons doing a joint fund raiser. Bragging rights may have had something to with it also.LOL

Your daughter seems to be a good contact hitter. Are you trying for home run power? Can't say this politely so I won't try...I have never seen a consistent petite/thin ( your daughter) power/HR hitter in girl's fastpitch at any level. The girl power hitters are Clydesdales to be blunt...big frame/big bone girls. Even Ms. Finch is a horse compared to most of the girls..she certainly isn't dainty.

Now that I've offended any females reading, I'm off to the doghouse...Good luck.

S. Abrams,

I hope my daughter proves your theory wrong. LOL! However, she's 14, 5'10" (Yes, she's grown another inch.) and weights 140. She does tend to hit with power. However, she also squats 145 lbs in 3 sets of 10 3 days a week along with her other lifting.

TFox, you're right and it is a shame, that there seems to be an element again on the site of heres our way and your way is wrong. It does dampen the discussion as your obviously percieve. Understand that having an opinion on what someone does right or wrong is one thing. To post with an open agenda without constructive dialoge is another.

S abrams,not looking for power at all,just the ability to get singles and a double every now and then.She has extreme speed (saw her reach 1st as a 10 year old at 3.5 seconds from contact on a bunt,60' bases )and that is the main focus and she will be a designated slap hitter from the looks of things but needs a solid swing to compliment that AND keep defense honest.

She has triple duty at this point learning 3 different techniques,slap,bunt and hit.

You think she is peteite,I hadn't noticed.

Her legs are proportionally long and I believe that is why she feels more comfotable with a wide stance.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
S. Abrams,

I hope my daughter proves your theory wrong. LOL! However, she's 14, 5'10" (Yes, she's grown another inch.) and weights 140. She does tend to hit with power. However, she also squats 145 lbs in 3 sets of 10 3 days a week along with her other lifting.

.

WOW,14 and 5' 10" 140.

She is my size. Actually slightly bigger.

My daughter is 5'2" and 94#'s,I doubt power will ever be her main goal.

But she is a black belt as well as my son so don't mess with her.

quote:

.....it just wasn't happening before.

Because you don't know how to teach it....

And, CoachB25, I'm being very constructive, IMO....

I asked.......

quote:

Her problem is top arm action.....Tom Guerry has always said, "arm action is King"....He's right....

Consider this....Would she throw with that same arm action she is swinging with?

Tfox answered..........

quote:

I hate to say it but she probably would. She does not throw very well at all,it has always been a struggle for her.......

This was after Tfox asked this...

quote:

OK,what do you think given what I have just described,points of emphasis at this point?

Very constructive, IMO!!

Bleudog,That may be.I don't deny it.

So it wouldn't make sense to stick with something neither one of us were getting results out of.


I am glad that now she has a staff of people that have seen thousands of girls and will be working with her further.

What she has learned has mostly come from the varsity coach because he is a friend and has worked with her but mostly he worked with me on how to teach her.PLUS some of the tips and knowledge picked up on here.

quote:

Bleudog,That may be.I don't deny it.

So why not learn it?

BD,you added some to your response since I responded.

I agree her hands seem to be a problem and I agree that maybe now would be a good time to address them.But you also indicated that isolation drills don't work which is what started some of this.They work in all levels of sport so imo,hitting isn't any different.

I have even seen a few of the prominent members of this site use them on here to help some hitters.

Coach has given me some nice drills to try and see if they clean things up as well.

I sent TFox a pm with suggestions/recommendations I'd do with his daughter. I wanted to take the time to say that I appreciate his trust in this site to reference his daughter's swing. We all know that members can be very cruel at times. The reason I didn't post those recommendations is that those suggestions would, inturn, change this topic from one of possible help to one of philosophy. We all know how that goes.

I DO THINK that many members here are doing their best via questions and/or suggestions to render help. My previous remark about "agenda" has to do with one post that was critical and offered no reasoning and/or true help. I wanted to clarify that point. Again, I think that the majority of posters on this site have very good intentions when it comes to participation on this site.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Bleudog,That may be.I don't deny it.

So why not learn it?

I have tried but there are no drills or anything to help.You just say let the hands lead the body,that doesn't work.There is more to it,the body doesn't just know what to do.


There wasn't time and frankly,I don't feel it is the best way for her,my son showed much more of a response to it but he had a much better base to work with.He was already swinging really well before I tried to teach the tip and rip with him.

CoachB25, if a post is cruel, then I would say, delete it......

quote:

The reason I didn't post those recommendations is that those suggestions would, inturn, change this topic from one of possible help to one of philosophy.

Have we resorted to sending P.M.'s instead of an open discussion on this message board?...Certainly, no debate that way......

In all due respect, is one person's advice possible help and another's advice merely philosophy?....

quote:

You just say let the hands lead the body....

I have never said that.....

I have said, let the hands load against the front hip opening during the stride, though.....

Creating this separation is teaching the upper and lower body at the same time......

Like this:

And this.......

Bluedog, no post was cruel, simply not helpful with an agenda that matched their last post ie. go to another site. With all due respect this thread should be about tfox's daughter's swing and you know what will happen when I post my observations. You've always encouraged me to do so. I appreciate that. My recommendations wouldn't aid others on this site and so, I pmed them. It was my observations along with a "drill" that I'd do with my own daughter. Along with that was an offer for help at any time should TFox consider my suggestions "help." You also know that the instant I use certain phrases, this topic will no longer be about the intent of this thread. I don't want this topic hijacked as I respect tfox and know he wants help for his child. That is the lay of the land and, as you know, I don't have to be right. I only speak for my child and players and know what I do is right for them. I consider you to be one that, while we disagree, we can opt to get along and discuss issues. I wish I could make those same claims for others. JMHO!

This is where I hope she can get to,this is from the link Quincy posted.

I actually think that your daughter's swing is better than the example. It is not as loaded as the example but that may come in time.

The example has the bat further back in the load.

Your daughter can make that adjustment, but I hope she keeps the arm extension and wrist uncocking in front of her body.

The magic could be in something as a little less hip rotation before contact.

As an eighth grader she is exhibiting talent and the hand eye coordination that better hitters wish they had.

With the weather changing, I hope she has a great season with many hits (maybe even a double ot two).

In the example,I am looking at how she is loaded on the front side at contact and how she gets full extension through contact.I can really see the slingshot effect happening.

quote:

You also know that the instant I use certain phrases, this topic will no longer be about the intent of this thread.

Coach, yes I do know that.....I guess, I forgot....

Try to eliminate the sling shot for a bow.

Being an archer, you know that the bow generates more force into the flight of the projectile in a more fluid fashion than a sling shot..

Strong load with good extension brings good results.

See Michelle Smith or Jessica Mendoza

tfox,

I've looked and looked at the video and the only thing I see that needs to be fixed is the locked in the bent position front elbow. I think if she will push her hands back towards the Catcher as she strides, her swing will be pretty darn close to perfect. Get her to feel that stretch in the back of her right arm as she separates. I don't think the wide stance is a problem at all, she has long legs and uses them to her advantage. As S.Abrams said in his post, "she attacks the ball" and that is a very good thing, especially for a girl. I have found that aggressiveness is one of the hardest things to get a girl to do or understand. Another thing I see is a big smile on her face while she is "working" and I can't even begin to tell what a big plus that is for an instructor and a student. I would try the rolled towel under her front arm pit drill and let her watch herself on video to see the improvement when she gets that front arm more straight during her stride. The timing should be as the front heel lands the hands should start forward.

I would also like to see the front arm unlock a little,I see alot of tension in that arm that I will show her.


I think her wide stance actually looks wider than it really is,look at how the feet are turned out.I feel her heels are about right FOR HER because of the long legs but she needs to get the feet pointed toward the plate.

Agree or disagree?

I really feel that the feet are causing some of her problems at this point too.


She is smiling and laughing because she is hitting ME with those darn balls and one time she got me right on the hand and you can hear me yell when she does it.


It was extremely hard to get her to attack the ball,that probably has been the biggest obstacle for us but she is a black belt and I have been using that experience to help her understand what she is trying to accomplish,I have been telling her to break the board like she used to do in tko.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
I would also like to see the front arm unlock a little,I see alot of tension in that arm that I will show her.


I think her wide stance actually looks wider than it really is,look at how the feet are turned out.I feel her heels are about right FOR HER because of the long legs but she needs to get the feet pointed toward the plate.

Agree or disagree?

I really feel that the feet are causing some of her problems at this point too.


She is smiling and laughing because she is hitting ME with those darn balls and one time she got me right on the hand and you can hear me yell when she does it.


It was extremely hard to get her to attack the ball,that probably has been the biggest obstacle for us but she is a black belt and I have been using that experience to help her understand what she is trying to accomplish,I have been telling her to break the board like she used to do in tko.

Her back foot being turned out could be a problem, but she isn't doing it every time. It looks like your going kind of quick and she's really not getting settled. She also has on tennis shoes on a concrete garage floor and it's easy for that foot to slide out. I would put some tape or mark a chalk line on the floor with the box and the alignment for her foot and make her reset before each pitch. You've got the biggest part of the equation beat. She wants to do it, even if it is because she wants to rip a few off of your head, lol.

I am not going as fast as it looks,the video is edited so that all the bs between swings was cut out,plus there were a few that just were too bad to show.LOL


She does turn both her feet most of the time but I think we fixed that tonight.The floor is slick and hard to get a grip on so we both understand that and we have to remember to sweep the floor before we start.I will try to get something down to help with grip.


We tried to narrow up some and she tried it at practice tonight and after she was struggling making contact,the coach told her he wanted her wide EVERY time.


We also tried moving the hands back and the timing was WAY off but we aren't done trying to get a little hand movement.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
I am not going as fast as it looks,the video is edited so that all the bs between swings was cut out,plus there were a few that just were too bad to show.LOL


She does turn both her feet most of the time but I think we fixed that tonight.The floor is slick and hard to get a grip on so we both understand that and we have to remember to sweep the floor before we start.I will try to get something down to help with grip.


We tried to narrow up some and she tried it at practice tonight and after she was struggling making contact,the coach told her he wanted her wide EVERY time.


We also tried moving the hands back and the timing was WAY off but we aren't done trying to get a little hand movement.

Her timing will be off for a while, but it won't be for long if she sticks with it. If she will work on hitting the ball back up the middle on every pitch she will get their. You still have plenty of time before the season starts in Kentucky, right?

March 27th is the first game but the biggest issue right now is she is trying to be a hand hitter anytime I say anything about the hands and flying open too early.

I really have to tip toe around this with her.


I have video I am working on with some changes off the T,I will try to get it up later.

I am by no means any kind of expert on a softball swing so what I am about to put may be completely wrong. So if it is I will apologize and go back into the corner and sit with the dunce cap.

I think I see two problems with her swing.

1. She doesn't get her front foot "down" in time. I know she is pretty wide and doesn't really take a stride because of it but her foot does have a trigger movement. It looks to me she is still moving her foot as she is making contact with the ball.

2. This might be because of the foot not getting down quick enough and I may just be looking at it wrong but it looks like she is pulling her hands in to get around on the ball. I think she might be a little slow with her foot which makes her hands a little slow.

3ish. She dropped her hands a couple of times but I think those were just isolated incidences because she didn't do it a lot.

tfox - I think what you can do with the whiffle balls which will help her and you not get hit is pitch them in and out.

We use these drills to help develop a quicker swing on inside by throwing the ball at the hip. It forces them to get the foot down, hips and hands through and finish strong.

By throwing it outside it helps her learn to wait on the ball and let it get deep to the back corner of the plate. You also get immediate feedback because the ball will popup if too early or will be weakly hit - like almost all other inside / outside drills.

I think she has a pretty nice swing from what little I know about softball and the things I think are wrong are just timing issues and easily fixed.

I believe youtube and real time is giving the illusion the foot isn't down.Check out the still I got from the video.


The foot is down and hips have rotated but hands are back.
I don't what is going on,it won't let me post he pic

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2665001&mpage=1&key=�


Click on the link to see the picture,this site is the problem NOT photobucket.

I guess I should have expressed that I am not a tech guy either. I will trust your word tfox since you have seen her swing more than I have. It just seems that way when I watch the video.

Best of luck this season.