Part of what Chris talks about is a demographic term. For some reason there are a number of "instructors" in the St. Louis area that commonly use these terms and in my opinion they do a great disservice to the players they teach. The problem is not that they separate with the hand and glove going down (that is common) the dangerous part is that they are taught to separate by pulling the elbows up and to keep the hand down until the front foot lands and they should whip the hand up and through the throwing slot. This, I believe, is what TPG alludes to and I have to agree whole heartedly. I will say this to TPG (and this is very uncharacteristic of me) if you wish to call yourself an avid enthusiast and researcher that is great. I think you are on your way to finding some good information. But from someone that studied Kinesiology all through school and received a degree in Kinesiology as well as athletic training, I do not like people calling themselves experts after they read some books or ask others some questions. I do not consider myself an expert (but I do feel well educated in this area) and will never present myself to be an expert. I do think you make some great points and encourage you to continue your educational process.
I would agree that teaching pulling the hands apart by pulling the elbows up -- what TPG calls the "inverted W" -- to me would create all sorts of problems.
I have never encountered a coach who actually advised young pitchers to do this. I've seen kids do it, and some coaches who have more of a "hands off" approach (maybe more accurately, they don't like to feel like they're micromanaging) allow it to continue. But I've never heard anyone say, "you need to start doing this" or "you need to do this more."
I'm sorry to hear that something has gotten in the water in St. Louis!
I have never encountered a coach who actually advised young pitchers to do this. I've seen kids do it, and some coaches who have more of a "hands off" approach (maybe more accurately, they don't like to feel like they're micromanaging) allow it to continue. But I've never heard anyone say, "you need to start doing this" or "you need to do this more."
I'm sorry to hear that something has gotten in the water in St. Louis!
As for hip/shoulder separation, that, too is a proper approach as long as you understand it correctly.
The hips do turn before the shoulders. However, the fact that the hips have opened doesn't mean that the weight has shifted yet. It's a two-step thing -- unlock, then shift/rotate. The shoulders come at the second step. If you understand this, then you can see that TPG's disagreement with others like Dick Mills is really more of a tempest in a teapot than a big throw-down. (I know Mills is a controversial subject in himself. I actually find kernels of wisdom in his approach, though I tend to find him argumentative and extremely verbose.)
The unlock, then shift/rotate approach is also used by hitters. Jim Thome comes to mind as someone you can look at clips of and see it readily even without slo-mo.
I tend to think of this as cracking the whip. Each body part turns in sequence, from the ground up, resulting in maximum hand speed at release.
The hips do turn before the shoulders. However, the fact that the hips have opened doesn't mean that the weight has shifted yet. It's a two-step thing -- unlock, then shift/rotate. The shoulders come at the second step. If you understand this, then you can see that TPG's disagreement with others like Dick Mills is really more of a tempest in a teapot than a big throw-down. (I know Mills is a controversial subject in himself. I actually find kernels of wisdom in his approach, though I tend to find him argumentative and extremely verbose.)
The unlock, then shift/rotate approach is also used by hitters. Jim Thome comes to mind as someone you can look at clips of and see it readily even without slo-mo.
I tend to think of this as cracking the whip. Each body part turns in sequence, from the ground up, resulting in maximum hand speed at release.
Here some additional info:
Regarding his draft by the Cardinals:
Then things stayed weird. The Cardinals selected David Kopp of Clemson in the 2nd round. Says BA of Kopp-
Somewhat enigmatic, Kopp has been inconsistent with his control and velocity, but at his best he flashed middle-of-the-rotation stuff. He stayed behind and on top of the ball better during his delivery this spring and improved his direction to the plate. His fastball ranges from 91-96 mph, sitting at 92. He gets sink and run from his three-quarters arm slot, though he doesn’t repeat his release point. His changeup is a weapon, but his 81-83 mph slider shows potential of becoming a legitimate put-away pitch. He needs to improve his mental approach and confidence, especially in tight situations. Kopp has more upside than the typical college righthander in this year’s draft, and he could be taken as early as the second round.
Well, at least they don’t think he’s a total reach. He struck out 75 in 98 innings while walking 25 and giving up 7 HR’s, not anything to write home about. His peripherals show he’s actually pitched worse then his ERA indicated, as his DERA was 4.18 verses his actual ERA of 3.67, albeit the ACC is a tough conference to pitch in. I see a couple of running themes here, the mysterious “upside” word, college pitchers, and sinkerballers.
Pitched all of four innings at the Cardinals rookie league level:
The first draftee of the 2007 class hits the DL - RHP David Kopp. Fantastic. . .no word on the injury.
Earlier landed on the DL with an ankle injury, only pitched 4 innings so far. A sinkerballer, 17 of the 19 balls put in play against him have been grounders.
Kopp is out with tendinitis in his arm…not good, but it happens.
Year Age Team G W L IP TBF H 2B 3B HR R ER BB K ERA RA9
2007 A- Batavia 2 0 1 4.0 19 3 1 0 0 1 0 3 3 0.00 2.25
At fall league instructional 2007:
Right-hander Jess Todd (second round) out of the University of Arkansas was outstanding in Instructional League, allowing one hit and one run while fanning 15 in 10.0 innings of work spanning four outings.
On the negative-David Kopp and Deryk Hooker got torched, Oliver Marmol went 2 for 24, and Daryl Jones still stinks.
For complete instructional league stats, The Birdhouse has them posted for free.
Pitcher W L ERA G IP H R ER BB SO
Kopp, David 1 1 7.90 5 13.7 17 12 12 8 12
Todd, Jess 0 1 0.90 4 10.0 1 1 1 0 15
And last but not least according to the Cardinals top 40 prospects 2008 Kopp makes the list as the last pitcher (23rd out of 23 pitchers on the list).
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/718302.html
I for one would withhold judgment before I bestowed onto Knopp Greg Maddux pitching mechanics accolades. having seen his mechanics and comparing it to those such as Todd, Kopp has a slow arm combined with a low three-quarter delivery that gets sink on the ball but not what you would call a lively fastball. Also there's a question regarding his ability to throw strikes. Again not very Maddux like.
Regarding his draft by the Cardinals:
Then things stayed weird. The Cardinals selected David Kopp of Clemson in the 2nd round. Says BA of Kopp-
Somewhat enigmatic, Kopp has been inconsistent with his control and velocity, but at his best he flashed middle-of-the-rotation stuff. He stayed behind and on top of the ball better during his delivery this spring and improved his direction to the plate. His fastball ranges from 91-96 mph, sitting at 92. He gets sink and run from his three-quarters arm slot, though he doesn’t repeat his release point. His changeup is a weapon, but his 81-83 mph slider shows potential of becoming a legitimate put-away pitch. He needs to improve his mental approach and confidence, especially in tight situations. Kopp has more upside than the typical college righthander in this year’s draft, and he could be taken as early as the second round.
Well, at least they don’t think he’s a total reach. He struck out 75 in 98 innings while walking 25 and giving up 7 HR’s, not anything to write home about. His peripherals show he’s actually pitched worse then his ERA indicated, as his DERA was 4.18 verses his actual ERA of 3.67, albeit the ACC is a tough conference to pitch in. I see a couple of running themes here, the mysterious “upside” word, college pitchers, and sinkerballers.
Pitched all of four innings at the Cardinals rookie league level:
The first draftee of the 2007 class hits the DL - RHP David Kopp. Fantastic. . .no word on the injury.
Earlier landed on the DL with an ankle injury, only pitched 4 innings so far. A sinkerballer, 17 of the 19 balls put in play against him have been grounders.
Kopp is out with tendinitis in his arm…not good, but it happens.
Year Age Team G W L IP TBF H 2B 3B HR R ER BB K ERA RA9
2007 A- Batavia 2 0 1 4.0 19 3 1 0 0 1 0 3 3 0.00 2.25
At fall league instructional 2007:
Right-hander Jess Todd (second round) out of the University of Arkansas was outstanding in Instructional League, allowing one hit and one run while fanning 15 in 10.0 innings of work spanning four outings.
On the negative-David Kopp and Deryk Hooker got torched, Oliver Marmol went 2 for 24, and Daryl Jones still stinks.
For complete instructional league stats, The Birdhouse has them posted for free.
Pitcher W L ERA G IP H R ER BB SO
Kopp, David 1 1 7.90 5 13.7 17 12 12 8 12
Todd, Jess 0 1 0.90 4 10.0 1 1 1 0 15
And last but not least according to the Cardinals top 40 prospects 2008 Kopp makes the list as the last pitcher (23rd out of 23 pitchers on the list).
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/718302.html
I for one would withhold judgment before I bestowed onto Knopp Greg Maddux pitching mechanics accolades. having seen his mechanics and comparing it to those such as Todd, Kopp has a slow arm combined with a low three-quarter delivery that gets sink on the ball but not what you would call a lively fastball. Also there's a question regarding his ability to throw strikes. Again not very Maddux like.
I'm not exactly sure what the point of this post is other than to tear DK down.
I'll let TPM get into the details if she wants to.
It isn't at all unusual for a leg problem to lead to some shoulder problems. Keep in mind that this is probably the longest DK ever pitched in a year. He went straight from college ball into the Cardinals organization.
Let's see how he does this year with some time off and an ML caliber conditioning program.
I saw Todd and mostly liked him (I can show you video), but I'd take DK over Todd any day.
I had DK rated an 8 and Todd just a 5 or 6.
I think DK has starter mechanics. Todd feels more like a reliever to me. For one thing, Todd is much more max effort than DK.
You're confusing mechanics and results.
Kopp has solid mechanics but needs to work on his effectiveness. That's hardly unusual for a guy taking the next step and dealing with an injury in the meantime.
You're killing me. Where do you get this stuff?
DK has tremendous tail on his fastball. Just check out his scouting video on MLB.com. I have seen 9 to 12 inches of horizontal break, which is top notch.
Check out the pitches at 1:13 and 1:17.
Also, as I said above DK is much smoother than Todd.
I'm sure it took Maddux a few years to figure things out. That included backing off his FB a few MPH.
quote:Originally posted by still_learning:
Pitched all of four innings at the Cardinals rookie league level:
The first draftee of the 2007 class hits the DL - RHP David Kopp. Fantastic. no word on the injury. Earlier landed on the DL with an ankle injury, only pitched 4 innings so far. A sinkerballer, 17 of the 19 balls put in play against him have been grounders. Kopp is out with tendinitis in his arm…not good, but it happens.[
I'll let TPM get into the details if she wants to.
It isn't at all unusual for a leg problem to lead to some shoulder problems. Keep in mind that this is probably the longest DK ever pitched in a year. He went straight from college ball into the Cardinals organization.
Let's see how he does this year with some time off and an ML caliber conditioning program.
quote:Originally posted by still_learning:
[i]Right-hander Jess Todd (second round) out of the University of Arkansas was outstanding in Instructional League, allowing one hit and one run while fanning 15 in 10.0 innings of work spanning four outings. On the negative-David Kopp and Deryk Hooker got torched, Oliver Marmol went 2 for 24, and Daryl Jones still stinks.
I saw Todd and mostly liked him (I can show you video), but I'd take DK over Todd any day.
I had DK rated an 8 and Todd just a 5 or 6.
I think DK has starter mechanics. Todd feels more like a reliever to me. For one thing, Todd is much more max effort than DK.
quote:Originally posted by still_learning:
I for one would withhold judgment before I bestowed onto Knopp Greg Maddux pitching mechanics accolades.
You're confusing mechanics and results.
Kopp has solid mechanics but needs to work on his effectiveness. That's hardly unusual for a guy taking the next step and dealing with an injury in the meantime.
quote:Originally posted by still_learning:
having seen his mechanics and comparing it to those such as Todd, Kopp has a slow arm combined with a low three-quarter delivery that gets sink on the ball but not what you would call a lively fastball. Also there's a question regarding his ability to throw strikes. Again not very Maddux like.
You're killing me. Where do you get this stuff?
DK has tremendous tail on his fastball. Just check out his scouting video on MLB.com. I have seen 9 to 12 inches of horizontal break, which is top notch.
Check out the pitches at 1:13 and 1:17.
Also, as I said above DK is much smoother than Todd.
I'm sure it took Maddux a few years to figure things out. That included backing off his FB a few MPH.
This thread is not about critiquing DK's mechanics or his scouting reports or his abilities.
If I detect any attempt to discredit, scrutinize and or make a point of DK, I'm going to lock this thread and suggest to the owner that the attacking IP address be banned.
If I detect any attempt to discredit, scrutinize and or make a point of DK, I'm going to lock this thread and suggest to the owner that the attacking IP address be banned.
quote:This thread is not about critiquing DK's mechanics.....
Then you should have closed the thread after the very first post by TPG because everything posted here is a critique of Kopp's mechanics.
Daaaah.....
Add to the things you're "still_learning", some manners.
still_learning,
A lot of people have been critiquing DK's mechanics by comparing them to other pitchers, but I don't think anyone has been negative about his mechanics or his ability. Let's face it, this is a kid who is playing pro ball and most of us have kids who are trying to make the HS team. Big difference between critiquing/analyzing and being negative. Personally, I can look at clips and point out differences and I can say that he does some things, such as staying closed quite well, but I don't have the expertise, and neither do some who claim to, to say just how good his mechanics are or aren't.
One of the hard and fast rules on here is not to be negative about a poster's child or to the kids themselves. I realize when a player turns pro they become somewhat "public figures" but I think what you've posted was pretty negative and not something that TPM deserved to have thrown at her. I'm sure TPM has been around pitchers long enough to realize that stats don't mean a whole lot during a pitcher's introduction to the minors when they are trying to make the changes necessary to adapt to pro ball, but that kind of thing still hurts.
A lot of people have been critiquing DK's mechanics by comparing them to other pitchers, but I don't think anyone has been negative about his mechanics or his ability. Let's face it, this is a kid who is playing pro ball and most of us have kids who are trying to make the HS team. Big difference between critiquing/analyzing and being negative. Personally, I can look at clips and point out differences and I can say that he does some things, such as staying closed quite well, but I don't have the expertise, and neither do some who claim to, to say just how good his mechanics are or aren't.
One of the hard and fast rules on here is not to be negative about a poster's child or to the kids themselves. I realize when a player turns pro they become somewhat "public figures" but I think what you've posted was pretty negative and not something that TPM deserved to have thrown at her. I'm sure TPM has been around pitchers long enough to realize that stats don't mean a whole lot during a pitcher's introduction to the minors when they are trying to make the changes necessary to adapt to pro ball, but that kind of thing still hurts.
As usually happens on this forum, people not being able to put one and one together and get two, the point I was trying to make for those who had some ability to connect the dots, is that TPG equates good mechanics to the performance of Greg Maddux. TPG's premise is that because Maddux has performed well over the years and therefore everything that Maddux does (his mechanics) is representative of good mechanics. Yet TPG (and others) protest when I apply the same standard to TPG's "example" (Kopp) of what he considers good mechanics. I am simply using the same standard or should I say rationale that TPG is using in this discussion, that performance (according to TPG) equates the good mechanics. Following the same logic, that Kopp's performance should be a measure of how good his mechanics are. Just trying to show how foolish this whole discussion is.
Chris O'Leary,
One statement that you made much earlier in this thread, and I'm paraphrasing you, was something like, "It is a common misconception that pronation occurs after release for every type of pitch".
Why do you think that is a misconception? Cult leader Mike Marshall has been standing on the ridiculous soapbox of "his pitcher's pronate" for a few years now. As if 'traditional' pitchers don't.
Tom House's book from the 1980's, "The Winning Pitcher, shows graphically what many of the same pictures that anyone can now find on GettyImages.com also show--that is, stills captured 10-30 milliseconds after release do indeed show that pronation is a part of every pitch. Obviously, screwballs and most change-up pitches are thrown with hand/wrist/forearm pronation that is preset before release point. To get a certain flavor of spin on the ball. It is undoubdtedly a very nice benefit of those two pitch types that the hand/wrist/forearm doesn't have to adjust much to get into pronation after ball release.
But, anyone can do a very simple experiment that shows why it is anatomically impossible to maintain a supinated (curveball) hand/wrist/forearm into follow-through:
In slo-mo, don't want anyone to hurt themselves, go through a pitching motion with your hand supinated (in karate chop orientation) and as you go into a typical follow-through with your arm, try to keep that hand/wrist/forearm supinated.
Q: Where does your elbow go in the earliest stages of follow-through?
A: It drives straight into abdomen on the throwing arm side.
Now do the same experiment with a supinated karate chop orientation, but allow your hand/wrist/forearm to pronate.
Q: Where does your elbow go?
A: It is pointed away from your abdomen as your throwing arm wraps neatly around your torso in follow-through.
During a high-speed throwing motion that has a follow-through, no one can control pronation after release--it does have to happen.
One statement that you made much earlier in this thread, and I'm paraphrasing you, was something like, "It is a common misconception that pronation occurs after release for every type of pitch".
Why do you think that is a misconception? Cult leader Mike Marshall has been standing on the ridiculous soapbox of "his pitcher's pronate" for a few years now. As if 'traditional' pitchers don't.
Tom House's book from the 1980's, "The Winning Pitcher, shows graphically what many of the same pictures that anyone can now find on GettyImages.com also show--that is, stills captured 10-30 milliseconds after release do indeed show that pronation is a part of every pitch. Obviously, screwballs and most change-up pitches are thrown with hand/wrist/forearm pronation that is preset before release point. To get a certain flavor of spin on the ball. It is undoubdtedly a very nice benefit of those two pitch types that the hand/wrist/forearm doesn't have to adjust much to get into pronation after ball release.
But, anyone can do a very simple experiment that shows why it is anatomically impossible to maintain a supinated (curveball) hand/wrist/forearm into follow-through:
In slo-mo, don't want anyone to hurt themselves, go through a pitching motion with your hand supinated (in karate chop orientation) and as you go into a typical follow-through with your arm, try to keep that hand/wrist/forearm supinated.
Q: Where does your elbow go in the earliest stages of follow-through?
A: It drives straight into abdomen on the throwing arm side.
Now do the same experiment with a supinated karate chop orientation, but allow your hand/wrist/forearm to pronate.
Q: Where does your elbow go?
A: It is pointed away from your abdomen as your throwing arm wraps neatly around your torso in follow-through.
During a high-speed throwing motion that has a follow-through, no one can control pronation after release--it does have to happen.
quote:As usually happens on this forum, people not being able to put one and one together and get two, the point I was trying to make for those who had some ability to connect the dots, is that TPG equates good mechanics to the performance of Greg Maddux.
still_learning,
Get your facts straight.
DK's ERA in the fall was not good, but he was just coming off of therapy, still with sore arm, and had not pitched since july. Essentially they were rehab innings. In his 2 starts in ss, his ERA was 0.
Tendinitous was a result of not pitching for two weeks, trying to get into the game quickly then spraining his ankle, not throwing for two weeks, probably working more upper body during that time then he should, then not taking the time to properly prepare for back on the mound, 100 innings didn't help. As far as his inconsistancy this spring, there are no excuses other than spraining the other foot in february and not being able to rehab properly and getting slopping due to his foot. BTW, if mechanics not working right, this can cause injury, which could appear why he came down with tendinitous (first time ever he has been sidelined). A big point of how it's important to have proper mechanics.
However, this was not the purpose of the thread and not sure what your issue is. However, we can have this exchange in the future, after yours has done what mine has which has included some of teh following: helping his college team win regionals and super regional, conference championship, pitched in Omaha, cape all star and drafted early. BTW, DK is NOT a SO pitcher, a groundballer with a good GO/FO ratio and I do beleive over 200 DP's in college for inducing the "blooper". You have to take what some people who do not know much about a player post on a website.
capn you may do as you see fit as far as closing this thread, this topic turned just as I thought it would.
Get your facts straight.
DK's ERA in the fall was not good, but he was just coming off of therapy, still with sore arm, and had not pitched since july. Essentially they were rehab innings. In his 2 starts in ss, his ERA was 0.
Tendinitous was a result of not pitching for two weeks, trying to get into the game quickly then spraining his ankle, not throwing for two weeks, probably working more upper body during that time then he should, then not taking the time to properly prepare for back on the mound, 100 innings didn't help. As far as his inconsistancy this spring, there are no excuses other than spraining the other foot in february and not being able to rehab properly and getting slopping due to his foot. BTW, if mechanics not working right, this can cause injury, which could appear why he came down with tendinitous (first time ever he has been sidelined). A big point of how it's important to have proper mechanics.
However, this was not the purpose of the thread and not sure what your issue is. However, we can have this exchange in the future, after yours has done what mine has which has included some of teh following: helping his college team win regionals and super regional, conference championship, pitched in Omaha, cape all star and drafted early. BTW, DK is NOT a SO pitcher, a groundballer with a good GO/FO ratio and I do beleive over 200 DP's in college for inducing the "blooper". You have to take what some people who do not know much about a player post on a website.
capn you may do as you see fit as far as closing this thread, this topic turned just as I thought it would.
RU Kidding me? Still-learning, I have known this kid as a pitcher since 14 yrs old. Cream rises to the top and poo floats. DK is cream. Did you look at the film? It's a lance, hello!
Bighit! 
How are ya? Hope all is good!
How are ya? Hope all is good!
quote:Originally posted by still_learning:
TPG's premise is that because Maddux has performed well over the years and therefore everything that Maddux does (his mechanics) is representative of good mechanics. Yet TPG (and others) protest when I apply the same standard to TPG's "example" (Kopp) of what he considers good mechanics. I am simply using the same standard or should I say rationale that TPG is using in this discussion, that performance (according to TPG) equates the good mechanics. Following the same logic, that Kopp's performance should be a measure of how good his mechanics are. Just trying to show how foolish this whole discussion is.
IMO, good mechanics contribute to two (but just two) things...
- Injury prevention
- Velocity
Mechanics are very important, but I certainly don't think they are the whole enchilada.
Kip Wells, a guy with good mechanics and solid stuff who apparently is also lazy and seems prone to the yips, taught me that lesson.
But good mechanics aren't completely worthless or of random value, either.
quote:Originally posted by laflippin:
But, anyone can do a very simple experiment that shows why it is anatomically impossible to maintain a supinated (curveball) hand/wrist/forearm into follow-through:
Anyone who's ever skipped a rock across a lake will tell you that you're wrong about this.
Location, Location, Location I guess that would be number three Chris?
quote:Originally posted by thepainguy:quote:Originally posted by laflippin:
But, anyone can do a very simple experiment that shows why it is anatomically impossible to maintain a supinated (curveball) hand/wrist/forearm into follow-through:
Anyone who's ever skipped a rock across a lake will tell you that you're wrong about this.
I dont supinate when I skip rocks.... Kind of like an index finger fastball Quisenberry style.
Well, Chris, I've got a couple of answers to your rock-skipping analogy.
1) There isn't much good analytical quality video of rock-skippers. Since most folks can't really perceive the fast pronation event in a pitcher's hand/wrist/forearm by looking at a pitcher throw in real time, it may be that rock-skippers do pronate. But, if rock-skippers do not have a follow-through that requires their throwing arm to wrap in front of their torso, then the need for pronation is perhaps moot for rock-skippers.
2) Ummmm...my discussion, which you quoted, was concerned with pitchers, not rock-skippers, and it was concerned with the necessity of pronating the hand/wrist/forearm as the forearm follows through after release of any pitch.
3) Maybe you don't pronate when you skip rocks. I'm sure you have plenty of time to study that art. Let us all know when you start skipping 5 oz rocks at 90+ mph.
4) Neither Quisenberry, nor anyone else, could wrap his throwing arm around the front of his torso with his hand/wrist/forearm supinated.
1) There isn't much good analytical quality video of rock-skippers. Since most folks can't really perceive the fast pronation event in a pitcher's hand/wrist/forearm by looking at a pitcher throw in real time, it may be that rock-skippers do pronate. But, if rock-skippers do not have a follow-through that requires their throwing arm to wrap in front of their torso, then the need for pronation is perhaps moot for rock-skippers.
2) Ummmm...my discussion, which you quoted, was concerned with pitchers, not rock-skippers, and it was concerned with the necessity of pronating the hand/wrist/forearm as the forearm follows through after release of any pitch.
3) Maybe you don't pronate when you skip rocks. I'm sure you have plenty of time to study that art. Let us all know when you start skipping 5 oz rocks at 90+ mph.
4) Neither Quisenberry, nor anyone else, could wrap his throwing arm around the front of his torso with his hand/wrist/forearm supinated.
I think this thread should be closed. Its one thing to discuss pitching theories but its another to use a posters son as your example.
Your coming off as experts and your not. Have you watched him? worked with him? You are like the fans in the stands who think you know better than the coaches on the field.
I think you should back off
Your coming off as experts and your not. Have you watched him? worked with him? You are like the fans in the stands who think you know better than the coaches on the field.
I think you should back off
quote:Originally posted by njbb:
I think this thread should be closed. Its one thing to discuss pitching theories but its another to use a posters son as your example.
Easy....Im pretty sure TPM is capable of fighting her own battles. The title of the thread "David Kopp's Pitching Mechanics" is, eeerrrr, was about discussing his mechanics with TPM's consent, according to TPG. The thread probably doesnt need to be locked because it is all but dead anyway.
quote:Your coming off as experts and your not. Have you watched him? worked with him? You are like the fans in the stands who think you know better than the coaches on the field.
Good stuff.....
sorry, Its a mom thing
I was quite surprised that TPM would allow Pain to post that thread.
I acn see where scouting reports and BA comments could be offensive. Pain knew they existed and it was not a great idea to post this. You can only expect good and bad comments.
I acn see where scouting reports and BA comments could be offensive. Pain knew they existed and it was not a great idea to post this. You can only expect good and bad comments.
To all...........
TPM has the thread under her control and will take appropriate action if needed.
Thanks to everyone expressing concerns.
TPM has the thread under her control and will take appropriate action if needed.
Thanks to everyone expressing concerns.
