Denouncing Steroid Use

Sign me up Baseballdad1228...with bells on!

Great idea!

You've got an enthusiastic PM!

I'm in.

Where do I sign??

I Emailed Sen. McCain a year and a half ago, to try to do something about this very issue.
All we ask, is for a level playing Field.
So it's fair for all Players.

Really how tolerant are we in this country.
They want to hang a guy in Afghanistan for not believeing what they believe.

Let's just keep it going...When we get enough people in here, we'll create the action plan.

I own a communications company, so I will donate the resources I have (creating materials, letterhead, envelopes) and absorb any costs associated with our effort.

Baseballdad1228:

That's great!

C'mon folks...let's get this ball rolling!

I've already sent letters and emails to my elected representatives......asking them to get the drugs out.....but....I'd sign up again....

Do a google search for the man whose arms exploded. something to that effect.you will know when you have the correct hit.Nothing you have ever seen will turn you off to steroids like this.Also on TLC channel

All well and good, but those who want to cheat will continue to cheat. Eradication means totally gone - not going to happen as long as there is lots of money involved. It certainly doesn't mean to sit back and do nothing, but I get the feeling that some think it can be done with forever. Remember "the clear"? It was designed to be undetectable - it went through track and field drug tests which are based on the IOC drug tests. Don't you think that there is another "clear" out there? Or about to come? Maybe with continued testing and refining the testing, etc. then those who do can be caught from time to time. If anyone ever had a coachroach infestation you know that when you see two or three that there are probably hundreds! So, not only must there be testing, but harsh consequenses. This is why the IOC has such (that and they are specifically competing once every fourth year). I wonder if a two year suspension and ineligible for the HOF would be enough for 1st time offense?
People are saying that they wrote their representatives - does this mean that only the government can step in and do something? Why is it always the government that has to do something? Stop going to pro ball games! If enough stopped going and just went to amatuer games - MLB would get the message or cease to exist. As long as people are paying, then the players are playing. Just like other sports where drugs are involved (I have heard of weightlifters first hearing about steroids from golfers and tennis players!). As well as the testing, there needs to be education with the stories of Lyle Alzado, Ken Caminiti, "Superstar" Billy Graham, and others who died early and/or dealt with all the horrible effects from steriod usage. Also the harrowing stories of teens who have taken and committed suicide when cycling off and not being able to deal with the deep dark depression that came.
Tim Robertson

I don't post much, just lurk, but count me in too.

Tim Rodertson:

All very good points...cheating is indeed inherent in the human condition...and can not be eliminated.

It can and should be shunned, whacked, ridiculed, mocked, made shameful, legislated against, dumped on, held up high as a display of horrible behavior and untolerable poor sportsmanship.

Maybe, just maybe, if we could cast it in that light we might make some headway against this scourge!

Sounds like a great idea. If you have a child that is playing baseball you should hop on board period!!!

Tim......you raise a lot of good points....I wrote my elected officials because baseball holds an advantage over other professional sports....it receives anti-trust exemption.

They received this benefit in 1922 when the Supreme Court voted unanimously that baseball was a STATE affair. In 1953 the Supreme Court again ruled in a suit brought against the NY Yankees that baseball was state business and specifically stated in their ruling:

"(4) a declared desire that if there are evils in this field (baseball), any remedy should be adopted by lesgislative fiat (legal order)" (Toolson v. New York Yankees 1953).

So that Tim....is why I write my elected officials. There are some on this site who are fond of saying......government has no business, congress has no business.....in MLB....but that is not the case.......baseball has been granted an advantagous exemption from our government...but likewise they are accountable for their "evils" also.....to the government.

The other points....well yes, trying to keep illegal performance enhancers out of sports....an ongoing battle.....just like trying to keep illegal drugs out of my kid's life.....but.....you do what you can.....

LadyNmom:

Thanls for the history lesson concerning MLB, the U.S. Congress, and the U.S Supreme Court...I wasn't fully aware of the history...everything makes more sense now that I know. Thanks again.

Like I said before and will say again.
I don't Believe that a few Players should take all the blame
for the scourge in the MLB.
The blame should be spread out to all those involved, MLB, Owners, The Players Union, Trainers/Coaches, And the Players
Involved.

Lets send a CLEAR MESSAGE that we will not Support such Behavior EVER AGAIN.

I don't want to pick just on Bonds.
But if everybody turned there back everytime he come up to BAT.
That would send a Message to the rest of the Players.

Please leave the Athletic Trainers out of this one. As health care professionals, there is NO WAY any of them would condone the use of steroids, nor, due to the MLBPA, would they be able to do anything other than counsel the player if they suspected use.

Private trainers?
Where was the MLBPA, they wern't looking out for all there members were they.
I've been a Union member all my life.
And one of the statements in most union BYlaws is.
That no Member will be harmed by another Member as long as it is in the power of the Union to Prevent it.
I do believe that there were other Clean Members That were
Harmed by the actions of Dirty Players???

I Stand By my Statement. The EH

.
A couple thousand HSBBW websters can't be ignored...

Count this one in.

IMO...I Would want to see a well crafted work that would include mention of education, full regular testing - including blood, as well as stiff penalties.

Also expressing our concern as parents of youth high school and collegiate players for their current and future well being and the future and well being of the game that has done and meant so much to all of our families.

Wonder if the work were good enough if you could start a HSBBWebster campaign to have a peititon given and distributed to EVERY youth league, and high school team in the country?

A million or so names?

Presented to congress by a couple of youth players in uniform. Full media coverage

Talk about an impact.

Definately good Karma.

44

I just want everybody involved to share the Blame.
Let's not pick an escape Goat or Sacrificial Lamb.
Let's Let them Apoligize and put it behind US.
The Sooner the Better.

O44,
Yes a million petition March.

I'm in

It is not about scapegoating - it is about restoring a level playing field - and reducing the temptation on the younger players to follow suit.

I'm in.

Anybody want to start organizing this by state? That way, instead of a zillion replies and difficulty in starting this, each could start a thread that links to this on their respective geographical forum(s) and we could perhaps get something done. And since many of our state legislatures are currently in session, we could probably get someone to pay attention. And I do believe that in my state, at least, it is a major election year.

.

mcozart...et al...

We have the "why"....

and while I'm all for supporting the next steps...the "hows" and putting some thought into how that works...

I believe the next concrete goal would be the "what's"....to come up with a simple, clean statement that would be worthy of signing. One that we all could agree upon, stand behind proudly and feel good about supporting. One that would really rally the troops.

One that encompasses the issues/concerns expressed above as well as some expressed on similar HSBBWS threads earlier.

One with some general outline of an action plan.

A sort of mission statement if you will.

Believe with the talent here it can be done, but it's also possible that it may be easier said than done. I suggest a working draft on this thread with a head writer.

Any takers?

Assuming no one intelligent does, maybe someone UNintelligent like ME may take a run at a first draft in the next day when I have the time and the muse and see if I can come up with something...Problem is if I am involved It's likley to be filled with the spelling errors and terms like Karma and Moose...

Or perhaps better yet...maybe someone does start organizing the distrbution function while the thing gets written.....

44

44:

That's what BIC Wite-Out is for...we'll totally obliterate words such as Karma and Moose...the only real problem will be finding a 55 gal. drum of the stuff!

.

Sorry...Woodman...Don't buy that BIC stock just yet...

...Endemic.

or if you like it better...epidemic

44

Bumping this one to the top...let's hear from you on this one!

It's my turn to bump this...I sure don't want it to get lost...or worse, forgotten...

Just wondering, how many of you denouncing have also warned and denounced or forbidden your sons against taking supplements.

In

What is your definition of a supplement?

We have denounced the use of and forbade our boys to use steroids and supplements.

My boys have NOT taken any steroids. They have NOT taken any supplements, such as creatine.

We consulted a registered dietitian. Two, actually. Both recommended AGAINST the use of creatine. The two dietitians did allow the consumption of powdered protein shakes and protein bars. They also suggested Carnation Instant Breakfast, as it is loaded with protein. Other than that, MY menu improved--with an emphasis on lean protein (chicken breasts and pork).

quote:

Originally posted by play baseball:
What is your definition of a supplement?

Supplements with creatine.

TPM.....I'm confused.....are you asking.....have we told our own about the hazards of illegal drug usage and/or legal supplements; unproven for long term effects? Thinking that is not what you are asking.....because we would have to be pretty much clueless.....if we spend our time preaching against it here....but neglected to tell our own......

This becomes a touchy subject when supplements are included.

There are various protein, vitamin and mineral supplements that are acceptable in daily life as well as in sport.

The most interesting in this day and age is Human Growth Hormone (HGH). If a drug or food supplement can stimulate the pituitary gland to secrete HGH in levels as high as in our youth, would it be a bad thing?

Thus far, the most common foods that promote the secretion of HGH are milk and dairy products.

If a substance is found that would keep us younger, longer, should it be banned for use by athletes?

.

These type of semantic clarifications are EXACTLY why I felt/feel....

quote:

...believe the next concrete goal would be the "what's"....to come up with a simple, clean statement that would be worthy of signing. One that we all could agree upon, stand behind proudly and feel good about supporting.

And

quote:

Believe with the talent here it can be done, but it's also possible that it may be easier said than done.

While I am personally for a Olympic model...I wouldn't want to sidetrack/hijack this discussion into either Karma, Moose or another give and take on steroid/HGH/creatine specifics...believe that a well written working document could be written that would be general enough to allow for most view points...but specific enough to get the point across...

44

44:

Reasoned and stated as a seasoned HSBBW denizen...well done!

Ok, let's see, this thread has gotten 35 (from only 17,18 people)replies and viewed 559 times. One person answered my question.

And it's suggested a million to sign up?

Bonds Exposed thread has 250 replies and been viewed 6036. More interest over on that thread.

Taking supplements with any performance boosters can be considerd cheating. Problem is, it is legal to cheat with some supplements and illegal with others. Many supplements with creatine are allowed by most college trainers for baseball. Creatine is deadly.It is a legal FORM of steroids. I am confused. So I can imagine if I am confused it's got to confuse those younger than I.
Please explain, my kid can't have a Red Bull but it's ok to use some supplement with that garbage. How can one denounce it if one can't understand the logic?

There was a post once about testing HS kids for steroids and most here said "no way". We have got to start somewhere, it's rampid among HS athletes.

The testing in some college programs is a farce. Steroid testing in all sports is a farce. It's rampid, they just move onto the next steroid that is undetected. I think it is wrong, I hate it. Too many looked the other way, still do, still will. Your elected officials as well. They know how we feel, MLB knows how we feel. Problem is they couldn't care less. THE only spark was because a very young boy died from using steroids and his family went public. I am not interested in bringing baseball back to how it used to be played, I am interested in saving young lives. That should be the MAIN reason why you denounce steroid or any illegeal drug in sports.

So I am just hoping that everyone does the sensible thing and has a sit down, serious with their kids, start young, over and over and over and over about everything. Try to help them sift through the confusion. Do it now, because once they leave home they are on their own to do as they please. And as much as many of you say mine doesn't use supplements with that stuff, as long as it is allowed, it's taken, most probably WITHOUT your knowledge.

In the interesat of good posterhood, does this answer the question?

JMO.

TPM, for the record I have warned kids against supplement use. Not sure where you are getting your info, from the NCAA web site:

"Ultimately, the ACSM report and NCAA studies indicate that creatine use for relatively short time periods has minimal detrimental side effects for most collegiate athletes. However, it is also important to note that some individuals, such as in the Kansas follow-up, DO have complications, and these cases are worthy of further research. The fact that creatine is a naturally occurring compound does not make it safe; neither does the apparent lack of adverse effects. More research is necessary to exam all potential complications and we know nothing yet about long-term effects of this substance."

Bt the way I am not advocating for creatine.

I would suggest the NCAA test players in the collegiate summer leagues - these are NCAA sanctioned and present a loophole.

As long as the promise of improved performance is there people will 'cheat'. Part of the answer must be effective testing and severe punishment. MLB is moving in the right direction.

TPM...No....not really.....are you saying we should give up....because there is not sufficient interest on this thread?

....and as far as supplements.....if they are legal....we can't very well complain to congress....so what is the point relative to this particular thread?

It was my assumption that we were addressing illegal drug usage......but......certainly good of you, in the interest of posterhood, to tell us what is going on with legal supplements.....and thanks for that....

This was my idea and I think that it's been - and will contine to be - effective.

I plan to write to the commissioner's office before the end of the week and explain to him what the HSBBW is and how it works, and that there are literally hundreds of contributors to this site that want dramatic change in baseball pertaining to its handling of steroid abuse. The best of what baseball has to offer is found here. I want the office to know this fact.

I also will write press releases and distribute them to every major media outlet via U.S. Mail and e-mail that shine a light on the fact that caring baseball people want their game preserved and the integrity of baseball restored. The opinions are all found here.

Awareness is the key to making a difference in any grass roots effort. In my mind, we're just starting.